Area of Concern -- The Bench

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from OneOnOne. Show OneOnOne's posts

    Re: Area of Concern -- The Bench

    In Response to Re: Area of Concern -- The Bench:
    Apparently RA blasted the bench at halftime.
    Posted by BiasLewis


    I read all the starters lit into the bench.  Ray usually don't say much but this time he did
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Petey62. Show Petey62's posts

    Re: Area of Concern -- The Bench

    In Response to Re: Area of Concern -- The Bench:
    Why does everybody say "consistency?"  They could play bad every game and be consistent. Why not just say we need them to show up every game.?
    Posted by cole-ely


    I think we are all saying the same thing.  Cole-ely, you're right.  The bottom line is we need them to show up every game.  I saw a post saying Nate played well the last two games.  That may be right but I'd want that type of good play for more than just two games in a row.  Prior to the past two games, Nate's play has been suspect.

    It's funny when I hear posters point to our record and being the top team in the East as reasons for not needing to improve the team.  In my opinion, being the top team in the East is not a reason to believe you're the best you can be.  I believe that even though we're the East's top team, there is room for improvement.  We can be even better.  This team has weaknesses, weaknesses that can be overcome (and exploited).  However, if those weaknesses can be turned into strengths, I think they should be addressed.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from jdm894g. Show jdm894g's posts

    Re: Area of Concern -- The Bench

    From the past few games I've seen the Celtics play Quis is getting the Ball to far out.  He can not creat for himself from that distance.  He needs the ball about 10 feet out and slash to the hoop or post up.  20 feet is too far out for him.  He has to get himself in better postion.

    honestly, the entire team needs to stop falling in love with the jump shot and drive to the basket!!!
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from BiasLewis. Show BiasLewis's posts

    Re: Area of Concern -- The Bench

    In Response to Re: Area of Concern -- The Bench:
    In Response to Re: Area of Concern -- The Bench : I think we are all saying the same thing.  Cole-ely, you're right.  The bottom line is we need them to show up every game.  I saw a post saying Nate played well the last two games.  That may be right but I'd want that type of good play for more than just two games in a row.  Prior to the past two games, Nate's play has been suspect. It's funny when I hear posters point to our record and being the top team in the East as reasons for not needing to improve the team.  In my opinion, being the top team in the East is not a reason to believe you're the best you can be.  I believe that even though we're the East's top team, there is room for improvement.  We can be even better.  This team has weaknesses, weaknesses that can be overcome (and exploited).  However, if those weaknesses can be turned into strengths, I think they should be addressed.
    Posted by Petey62



    Petey, this is why you always hear me proposing trades...some aren't that good. My point is I keep telling people that GMs are always looking to improve the team. I always get the "it's not broke don't fix it, we're leading the East why make a move" statements.

    Kupchak said yesterday he wouldn't be doing his job if he wasn't always trying to improve the team.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from P34. Show P34's posts

    Re: Area of Concern -- The Bench

    In Response to Re: Area of Concern -- The Bench:
    In Response to Re: Area of Concern -- The Bench : No, I better not. Petey warned me and I will follow his advice. P34, just think what I'm thinking. End of story. Rondo did a marvelous job.
    Posted by CHEisCHE


    So now I'm also OneOnOne?
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from P34. Show P34's posts

    Re: Area of Concern -- The Bench

    In Response to Re: Area of Concern -- The Bench:
    In Response to Re: Area of Concern -- The Bench : I read all the starters lit into the bench.  Ray usually don't say much but this time he did
    Posted by OneOnOne


    CHE just accused me of being you or vice versa.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from teh-n00b. Show teh-n00b's posts

    Re: Area of Concern -- The Bench

    daniels game style is interesting. because he gets all his points from cuts or post ups 10 feet from the basket, he benefits a lot from playing with good players, as he won't be doubled in the post or his opponent is more likely to be caught ball-watching, giving him easy layups.
    I don't have the stats to back this up, but it seems to me that daniels always plays better with the starters, and struggles when we play a pure 2nd unit.
    this is why I think he'll be the biggest beneficiary of west returning and shaq moving to the bench. all of a sudden we'll have 2 more scoring options, plus nate playing off the ball, and our bench will look a lot more formidable
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from aciemvp. Show aciemvp's posts

    Re: Area of Concern -- The Bench

    to those who say the bench is only good when rondo plays with it- well, he can't do that very much, can he? 

    i don't have a lot of issues with our bench.  after all, you have to give nate and delonte time to gel before anything is worth changing.

    nate, delonte, davis- three legit and fairly competent scorers on a bench unit and sometimes marcheese daniels can put up a ham sandwich.

    with all due respect, i think the bench complainers need to stop.  we have more starting quality players on our bench, four if you include that marquis started in indiana, nate, davis, delonte. 

    that is a luxury that FEW TEAMS have.  so why are we worried about it?

    the huge caveat in the room that nobody can ignore is that we have big trouble if delonte gets hurt again.  at that point, and only at that point would i pull the trigger to re-arrange something.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from BiasLewis. Show BiasLewis's posts

    Re: Area of Concern -- The Bench

    It could be too late if West gets hurt again. We're screwed if that happens. Doc wouldn't trust Bradley for the playoffs. Rondo's mins would need to go up or a FA would be picked up.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from PHX85014. Show PHX85014's posts

    Re: Area of Concern -- The Bench

    Celtics have best bench I've ever seen as a Celtics fan (since 1978)

    Shaq
    Glen Davis
    Nate Robinson
    Delonte West
    J'ON
    Marquis Daniels
    Luke Harangody
    Von Wafer
    Semi Erden
    Avery Bradley

    There are certainy enough assets there to land another superstar player on the level of KG or RA , in a down economy, teams might be wanting to unload salary ......best move of all might be no move at all , unless it was a noffer you couldn't refuse...

     guys I would like to see in GREEN: Danny Granger , Jeff Green , Nick Young, Anthony Morrow...

    Ainge at the trading deadline is like Tom Cruise throwing bottles around in Cocktail !


     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from futbal. Show futbal's posts

    Re: Area of Concern -- The Bench

    The bench is doing what it needs to do; the team is winning. In the playoffs, the nature of the bench changes from a sub package to a rotation. Players 6 and 7 are set with Baby for KG and Shaq for Perk, Delonte for Rondo and Nate for Ray, and Quis for Paul. Based on how they've played in past playoffs only Quis is a liability since he has shown he will shrink under pressure (but hopefully that will change). Also, if Wafer continues to improve he may get the nod over Quis when they want to spread the floor; lot of options for at most a 9 man rotation.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Driscoll92587. Show Driscoll92587's posts

    Re: Area of Concern -- The Bench

    Don't waste your enery griping abou the bench play.  The C's have one of the deepest teams in the league.  Once West and JON get healthy our second unit could very well play the majority of the minutes in the first and second round of the playoffs and the C's will be fine. 

    There needs to be an understanding that there is a reason why these players come off the bench:  They are consistently inconsistent.  The role the bench plays is to try to hold the lead and give the offense a rest until they can come in and do work.  They aren't starters. You guys expect Nate, Davis, and Wafer to come in and maintain the same play as Pierce, Ray, and KG.  This is simply unrealistic.  I think our bench is and has been a great asset all season and it's unfair to put such high expectations on players that are suited to stay alfoat rather than rise above the opponent. 

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from BigBaby11. Show BigBaby11's posts

    Re: Area of Concern -- The Bench

    As long as "The Great Big Baby" is wearing green the Celtic bench will be fine!
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from BiasLewis. Show BiasLewis's posts

    Re: Area of Concern -- The Bench

    In Response to Re: Area of Concern -- The Bench:
    Don't waste your enery griping abou the bench play.  The C's have one of the deepest teams in the league.  Once West and JON get healthy our second unit could very well play the majority of the minutes in the first and second round of the playoffs and the C's will be fine.  There needs to be an understanding that there is a reason why these players come off the bench:  They are consistently inconsistent.  The role the bench plays is to try to hold the lead and give the offense a rest until they can come in and do work.  They aren't starters. You guys expect Nate, Davis, and Wafer to come in and maintain the same play as Pierce, Ray, and KG.  This is simply unrealistic.  I think our bench is and has been a great asset all season and it's unfair to put such high expectations on players that are suited to stay alfoat rather than rise above the opponent. 
    Posted by Driscoll92587



    Driscoll, in theory your thoughts are correct. However a deep team doesn't always mean you have the best bench. You have the best individual talent 1-10 but the 2nd unit has to mesh. No one expects them to play like the starters but keep in mind RA of all people went off on the bench. What does that tell you??
    It tells me if it gets to a point where RA has to give a pep talk that it's been discussed among the starters already.

    Giving up leads isn't a good thing. It doesn't always happen but I guess the biggest problem with the bench is DO THEY KNOW THEIR ROLE?? If they think their role should change from game to game it's going to provide inconsistency. The Bad Boys always knew what needed to be done when the bench came in. Vinnie was there to shoot and score. Rodman played the defense on the best scorer and rebounded. Salley played the interior defender. Edwards was the low post scorer.

    Do we/they really know what the C's 2nd unit roles are or are they just a collection of talent. Do we know what Quis is going to do each game? Nate? Wafer? Erden? Luke?
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Karllost. Show Karllost's posts

    Re: Area of Concern -- The Bench

    Im happy with the bench, as benches go. Still wondering if the C's will ever be all healthy, then we could really make an assessment.

    Nate plays off tilt, thats his game. Doc doesnt want to change that but with all the injuries, hes had to, if only briefly.  Nate plays best when hes himself, meaning shooting open shots or creating shots. He still needs to understand the shot clock and game situations... really bad there. If DWest can get back, Nate is free to roam and shoot. He can light it up like few in the NBA when he gets going... DOc wants his offense for the 2nd unit. Nate will need to improve his shooting when West returns. If both he & West can return to form, our bench back court will be awesome.

    Wafer is looming in the background and improving.. hes a possible contributor

    I like Quis too. He can score in the post and makes shots them seem unmakable.  I think its a matter of getting him the ball, but hes not always gonna be a first option. 

    Baby is just plain good.

    Thats 4 out of 5 so far.

    At center it looks like Shaq...  in the post. Hes been unstoppable there all season, either scoring or drawing fouls. Just need to go to him to produce.

    JON I consider finished. If he returns and contributes, its a bonus.

    Semi can give us a few minutes here and there too but I doubt he'll see much action come playoff time in big spots.

    Overall, we have backups for all our starters, some better than others...compared to the rest of the league, we're in far better shape. Just need the pieces to come together and flow..

    Starts with DWest returning cose to 100% and Nate getting his game back in order. If they do, we'd be heavy favorites to win #18 no matter who we play imo
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from jeezem. Show jeezem's posts

    Re: Area of Concern -- The Bench

    the bench in the first half of the last game stunk it up.  somewhere i read that Ray Allen who does not talk too much in the locker room - basically flipped out on the bench players and gave them a full rashioning, talking to them like their father - and basically just stating plainly what he expected of them and how dissapointed he was - that they were letting the team down, the coach down, the fans down tonight and he doesn't care about anything that is going on during the trip or what is distracting anyone, we've got a game to go out there and play - and he (Ray) fully expects to win the game and all the starters are going to play full out for the rest of the game and that is what was expected of anyone who sets foot on the floor, that's Celtic BBall.  I'm extrapolating the exact conversation a little bit, but I thought it was weird that Doc seemed fairly light hearted coaching in the 2nd half and how fully fired up KG was - like he was on something.  The starters took control of that and basically Doc did not have to get into anyone or coach the whole 2nd half.  Having your team mates and peers call you out - really seemed to get everyone fired up in the 2nd half and it showed.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from paulbrr7. Show paulbrr7's posts

    Re: Area of Concern -- The Bench

    In Response to Re: Area of Concern -- The Bench:
    the bench in the first half of the last game stunk it up.  somewhere i read that Ray Allen who does not talk too much in the locker room - basically flipped out on the bench players and gave them a full rashioning, talking to them like their father - and basically just stating plainly what he expected of them and how dissapointed he was - that they were letting the team down, the coach down, the fans down tonight and he doesn't care about anything that is going on during the trip or what is distracting anyone, we've got a game to go out there and play - and he (Ray) fully expects to win the game and all the starters are going to play full out for the rest of the game and that is what was expected of anyone who sets foot on the floor, that's Celtic BBall.  I'm extrapolating the exact conversation a little bit, but I thought it was weird that Doc seemed fairly light hearted coaching in the 2nd half and how fully fired up KG was - like he was on something.  The starters took control of that and basically Doc did not have to get into anyone or coach the whole 2nd half.  Having your team mates and peers call you out - really seemed to get everyone fired up in the 2nd half and it showed.
    Posted by jeezem

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from paulbrr7. Show paulbrr7's posts

    Re: Area of Concern -- The Bench

    I'm not in love with the bench as much as karllost is, because they have some needs. Like someone to back up Paul and Rhondo and I'm sorry Nate just isn't the guy. But Doc is also part of the problem!!! He is playing the starters way to many minutes at their age. The bench for the most part has 1 consistent player (Davis) the rest of them are inconsistent night to night. Still Doc needs to have a little more patience with some of the bench players.  If you notice Doc will

    immediately pull off the court Semi, Luc and Wafer if they make 1 mistake. But keep Q and Nate out there when it just isn't working for them. All that does to a rookie is make them focus on not making a mistake rather then just playing the game. 

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from breaktime. Show breaktime's posts

    Re: Area of Concern -- The Bench

    Two things are funny about this thread.  First is, we seem to have this conversation every year.  Second, remember back in November, a lot of posters said how our second team could match up well against a lot of NBA first teams.  Having said that, 2nd unit may have had as many injuries as 1st unit.  We have had  injuries to JO, Semih, DW, BBD.  So I think the jury's still out on how good they are.  This concerns me, because if a trade is needed to shore up any weaknesses, I don't think DA can definitely know what the weaknesses are before the trade deadline.
    Still, because of the injuries suffered to date, I think the play of the bench will pick up some as players (specifically DW) heal and return.  Might be another month before that happens.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from BostonTrollSpanker. Show BostonTrollSpanker's posts

    Re: Area of Concern -- The Bench

    Petey, I like the bench better than you do but I do agree there is some disappointment there. 

    However, you do have to count either Shaq or Perk as a bench player. Either way that strengthens the bench a fair amount. Shaq doesn't have to play great to have an impact with his size. I do agree it would be great is Semih could emerge more, that would help a lot. 

    Since no moves are going to be made, we're really going to have to see how all the pieces fit once West is back. That should help a lot if he can go.
     
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