AS CAPITALISM KEEPS BEING DUNKED ON, GROUSBECK +OWNERS AVERAGE ONLY 16M PER YEAR SINCE BUYING CELTS

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from COMMUNIST-CONTRARIAN. Show COMMUNIST-CONTRARIAN's posts

    AS CAPITALISM KEEPS BEING DUNKED ON, GROUSBECK +OWNERS AVERAGE ONLY 16M PER YEAR SINCE BUYING CELTS

    http://greenstreet.weei.com/sports/boston/basketball/celtics/2011/07/21/what-we-know-about-the-celtics-financial-situation/

    any wonder there is a fight against unions and rampant socialism in this country. how can those who produce capital and take all the risks be so hustled and deprived of the fruits of their labor? kg, pp, and ray have all taken home more money than wyc grousbeck from basketball operations. that 16m doesnt even include ainge's pay and the other ownership partners and so forth. its ridiculous. without the capitalists, there is nothing to be socialist about. goes beyond sports to the debt ceiling and the rest. i'm a progressive-capitalist. so yeah, before we can talk health care, redistribution and other bla bla kumbayaism, we have to FIRST maximize the capital! want more jobs and benefits, FIRST maximize the capital. want more charity and philantropy, FIRST maximize the capital!

    think about this, the celts are one of those in the better positions in the nba. how can this possibly go on? just ridiculous!  The Celtics made $4.2 million during their finals run in 2009-10 and $18.3 million during the dismal 2006-07 season. yeah, there's been a recession. but again, this is ridiculous!  things must change!
     
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    Re: AS CAPITALISM KEEPS BEING DUNKED ON, GROUSBECK +OWNERS AVERAGE ONLY 16M PER YEAR SINCE BUYING CELTS

    geez, thanks for that screed, i thought you were a red or something with the username.

    you're exactly right.  the union has run wild on the whole game.  the guaranteed money phenomena should have been addressed after blounty coasted through five years for 50 million after trying hard in exactly 30 games.

    and so many other ridiculous expenses right now.  i hope this lockout is long and brutal and the cap comes on down to reality and no more signing two or 3 27 year old stiffs who've never done anything to build "super teams".  what a joke. 
     
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    Re: AS CAPITALISM KEEPS BEING DUNKED ON, GROUSBECK +OWNERS AVERAGE ONLY 16M PER YEAR SINCE BUYING CELTS

    In Response to Re: AS CAPITALISM KEEPS BEING DUNKED ON, GROUSBECK +OWNERS AVERAGE ONLY 16M PER YEAR SINCE BUYING CELTS:
    Rapant socialism? Wall Street destroyed the economy twice in the last 80 years. 400 people control HALF the wealth in this country. Union membership is lower than it has been in a century. What the hell are you talking about?
    Posted by Kirk6


    i guess the world has never seen this before.  the fed is wrecking the economy vis a vis crony capitalism. 

    the net results to the common man will be identical to what happens under a socialist system.  the government will own everything and ration out everything.
     
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    Re: AS CAPITALISM KEEPS BEING DUNKED ON, GROUSBECK +OWNERS AVERAGE ONLY 16M PER YEAR SINCE BUYING CELTS

    In almost every sport in the world besides the major sports leagues in the US there is no cap. The players get paid what they are worth on the market. In the center of capitalism there is a cap and still the owners (who are mostly st...ing rich) don't make enough money and cry for even more socialism? A (soft) cap and the draft with fixed salarys over the first years is still not enough?

    Maybe the owners should hire a GM who can judge talent, draft right and doesn't give major contracts to players like Arenas.

     
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    Re: AS CAPITALISM KEEPS BEING DUNKED ON, GROUSBECK +OWNERS AVERAGE ONLY 16M PER YEAR SINCE BUYING CELTS

    Where did those earning statements come from?  I have very little believe in them. How could a losing year be so profitable?  It makes no sense did they sell something?
     
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    Re: AS CAPITALISM KEEPS BEING DUNKED ON, GROUSBECK +OWNERS AVERAGE ONLY 16M PER YEAR SINCE BUYING CELTS

    You have to admit though, the Garnett/ Pierce/ Allen era has been worth every penny and put the Celtics in position to get a better TV deal.

    The Celtics owners have been generous to their fans by paying the luxury tax to bring in players to surround The Big 3

    It would really suck if the entire season is lost, but the owners have the right to restructure to keep the league financially viable. The players cannot expect the owners to continue to lose money every year.

    I think the league should consider contraction , 2 teams minimum and as many as 4 , plus, Memphis has to play at least 10 home games in Nashville and eventually make it so Memphis only gets 10 home games a season. Nashville is simply a better city and a better place for the NBA to do business. New Orleans is a disaster and Vegas has a permanent sellout crowd on The Strip waiting for the "Hornets" (how did New Orleans NEVER get the name "The Jazz" back from Utah after all these years?)

    5 yr deal is the new max , with the last year of any 5 yr deal as a vet min buyout....and make trades easier ! ease up with the salary's having to be equal , if it's 50% , that should be enough.

     
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    Re: AS CAPITALISM KEEPS BEING DUNKED ON, GROUSBECK +OWNERS AVERAGE ONLY 16M PER YEAR SINCE BUYING CELTS

    In Response to Re: AS CAPITALISM KEEPS BEING DUNKED ON, GROUSBECK +OWNERS AVERAGE ONLY 16M PER YEAR SINCE BUYING CELTS:
    geez, thanks for that screed, i thought you were a red or something with the username. you're exactly right.  the union has run wild on the whole game.  the guaranteed money phenomena should have been addressed after blounty coasted through five years for 50 million after trying hard in exactly 30 games. and so many other ridiculous expenses right now.  i hope this lockout is long and brutal and the cap comes on down to reality and no more signing two or 3 27 year old stiffs who've never done anything to build "super teams".  what a joke. 
    Posted by aciemvp
    great defense there of capitalism. i'm a contrarian to communists.. the opposite! perhaps next time i willl move the nuance and just roll with capitalist-avenger!  or capitalist-progressive which is what i really am politically or capitalist-libertarian.  economic capitalist, but social libertarian (leave people be,  more laws means bigger govt). you nailed it with crony capitalism. look at the mortgage mess. if govt wasnt in the mortgage business failing at picking winners and losers per usual, no way these lenders are that irresponsible in terms of who they lent to and the low requisites and diligence. they knew daddy govt would pick up the tab so they were unaccountable.

    likewise, these players dont care. with their long term no-cut guaranteed deals, doesnt matter what they do, they get paid. they have to go the vin baker or insubordinate no-show route to even lose money. love the idea of a 5 year max with a buyout at some point. football is on the right track as is hockey. the nba's model simply stinks, as does baseball's. 
     
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    Re: AS CAPITALISM KEEPS BEING DUNKED ON, GROUSBECK +OWNERS AVERAGE ONLY 16M PER YEAR SINCE BUYING CELTS

    In Response to Re: AS CAPITALISM KEEPS BEING DUNKED ON, GROUSBECK +OWNERS AVERAGE ONLY 16M PER YEAR SINCE BUYING CELTS:
      Interesting stat CC, that says a lot.  Of course net worth is a different story but I'd be willing to bet that Grousbeck and group have created more jobs than the other .1 and .01 percentile of wage earners and net worth individuals who play for teams around the league. (at least four current Celtic players fit into this elite economic class) Even the 19/20 year old young man from the University of Texas just got a 2nd year that will put him easily into the top 1/4 of the top 1% of wage earners.  Call me pragmatic but I'm pulling for the guys whose business is to create and cultivate business.  I'm pulling for them to be unhinged a bit.  And do their part in bringing more championships to Boston.  i'm a first time poster.  I got into reading this forum while keeping tabs on the celts from china last season.   
    Posted by passfirst

    well, if you want to stay on the creative cutting edge of whats happening in the big 3 boston sports, keep checking out my threads. 
     
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    Re: AS CAPITALISM KEEPS BEING DUNKED ON, GROUSBECK +OWNERS AVERAGE ONLY 16M PER YEAR SINCE BUYING CELTS

    Your the worst poster on the internet. You know absolutely nothing about sports and less about the economy. You just compared James to Jordan and you expect people to take you serious?
     
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    Re: AS CAPITALISM KEEPS BEING DUNKED ON, GROUSBECK +OWNERS AVERAGE ONLY 16M PER YEAR SINCE BUYING CELTS

    Don't get me started on this one..I just made a presentation in my Finance class..getting a Masters...First off, recessions, depressions, are common cycles every 60 years...recessions being more common...At the same time, government intervention is deep in trying to massage the economy and make every thing equal..which is an impossibility..the more they intervene, the more chaos they create, when the bubble bursts, they can blame corprate america for the greed..justify taxing the rich, all the while not taking any responsibility at all. As early as 2005, the heads of FNMA (Government structured corp) were being asked to divulge their accounting practices, something they refused to do.look it up on  utube..making all these rotten loans to people  who could not afford them, and requesting little or no verification and documentation .They received more bail out money and AIG..400 Billion.. Surprisingly, these loans defaulted and ended up in the market, being sold to investors all over the world as securities, and the banks hedging their investments with derivatives. But these investments would not have caused the harm they did to the markets, if they had been undeerwritten with half decent guidelines.  As far as the small % having the majority of wealth, it has been like that since the beginning of time.look it up...There are people out there, making it happen while the rest of us spend a majority of the time watching tv, or online with our favorite teams...and when they are super successfull. we hate them for it..Do we take the A students and make them B students so the c students won't feel bad?? Thats why we watch the finals, we want to see the very best excell at what they do. And when they fail, we castrate them..for being lazy or whatever faults they may have.
     I think it was estimated that Mrs. Kraft has given over 150 million to charities.. that' probably a little more than all of us on this site combined.. Just a hunch...

     
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    Re: AS CAPITALISM KEEPS BEING DUNKED ON, GROUSBECK +OWNERS AVERAGE ONLY 16M PER YEAR SINCE BUYING CELTS

    In Response to Re: AS CAPITALISM KEEPS BEING DUNKED ON, GROUSBECK +OWNERS AVERAGE ONLY 16M PER YEAR SINCE BUYING CELTS:
    Don't get me started on this one..I just made a presentation in my Finance class..getting a Masters...First off, recessions, depressions, are common cycles every 60 years...recessions being more common...At the same time, government intervention is deep in trying to massage the economy and make every thing equal..which is an impossibility..the more they intervene, the more chaos they create, when the bubble bursts, they can blame corprate america for the greed..justify taxing the rich, all the while not taking any responsibility at all. As early as 2005, the heads of FNMA (Government structured corp) were being asked to divulge their accounting practices, something they refused to do.look it up on  utube..making all these rotten loans to people  who could not afford them, and requesting little or no verification and documentation .They received more bail out money and AIG..400 Billion.. Surprisingly, these loans defaulted and ended up in the market, being sold to investors all over the world as securities, and the banks hedging their investments with derivatives. But these investments would not have caused the harm they did to the markets, if they had been undeerwritten with half decent guidelines.  As far as the small % having the majority of wealth, it has been like that since the beginning of time.look it up...There are people out there, making it happen while the rest of us spend a majority of the time watching tv, or online with our favorite teams...and when they are super successfull. we hate them for it..Do we take the A students and make them B students so the c students won't feel bad?? Thats why we watch the finals, we want to see the very best excell at what they do. And when they fail, we castrate them..for being lazy or whatever faults they may have.  I think it was estimated that Mrs. Kraft has given over 150 million to charities.. that' probably a little more than all of us on this site combined.. Just a hunch...
    Posted by Ortiz123


    What are you talking about? Our economy has absolutely suked for the last 8 years and it all goes back to Bush and wall st. wanting to mark a legacy of an " ownership society " . They prayed upon weak/stupid people and led them into believing that could afford their house and then ok'd second/third mortgages , loans etc. when they knew they couldnt afford it. Everything were experiencing right now leads back to that and you dont need a masters to figure it out. The idea that this is joe public's fault makes you look foolish to say the least. With all due respect your post doesnt make much sense. Anyone of us can turn on FOXNEWS and hear the same thing. Its the same old , "dont blame the rich" BS.  
     
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    Re: AS CAPITALISM KEEPS BEING DUNKED ON, GROUSBECK +OWNERS AVERAGE ONLY 16M PER YEAR SINCE BUYING CELTS

    Look up the bureau of labor statistics and tell me what the unemployment rate was for those 8  suck years...i don't deal in opinions..only facts...look up  fnma and freddie mac...
    do some research...
    also, my statistics show that we are officially in a depression..
    but you will not get the memo until after the elections...we will be in a depression for the next 5 to 7 years... we had a housing bubble, commodities and stock market is next...buckle up!!!


    Series Id:           LNS14000000
    Seasonally Adjusted
    Series title:        (Seas) Unemployment Rate
    Labor force status:  Unemployment rate
    Type of data:        Percent or rate
    Age:                 16 years and over

     
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    Re: AS CAPITALISM KEEPS BEING DUNKED ON, GROUSBECK +OWNERS AVERAGE ONLY 16M PER YEAR SINCE BUYING CELTS

    In Response to Re: AS CAPITALISM KEEPS BEING DUNKED ON, GROUSBECK +OWNERS AVERAGE ONLY 16M PER YEAR SINCE BUYING CELTS:
    In Response to Re: AS CAPITALISM KEEPS BEING DUNKED ON, GROUSBECK +OWNERS AVERAGE ONLY 16M PER YEAR SINCE BUYING CELTS : What are you talking about? Our economy has absolutely suked for the last 8 years and it all goes back to Bush and wall st. wanting to mark a legacy of an " ownership society " . They prayed upon weak/stupid people and led them into believing that could afford their house and then ok'd second/third mortgages , loans etc. when they knew they couldnt afford it. Everything were experiencing right now leads back to that and you dont need a masters to figure it out. The idea that this is joe public's fault makes you look foolish to say the least. With all due respect your post doesnt make much sense. Anyone of us can turn on FOXNEWS and hear the same thing. Its the same old , "dont blame the rich" BS.  
    Posted by startrightnow


    I may be mistaken but I thought the "everyone qualifies" mortgages was forced by the Clinton administration.

    Also, the other poster is right.  A person that has created a successful business, provides jobs & tax rev, should not be punished for his achievement. If you want to punish anyone, take aim at your politicians who welcome kickbacks for influence, legislation, votes etc.   T

    The system is corrupt beyond compare and everytime a wheel gets loose, they pit the rich against the poor and the American people fall for it everytime. Its not the rich vs the poor....its government vs the people. Our government, its corrupt, money/power hungry politicians built the platform  that allows them to gain at the peoples expense... and they have no conscience about it.


     
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    Re: AS CAPITALISM KEEPS BEING DUNKED ON, GROUSBECK +OWNERS AVERAGE ONLY 16M PER YEAR SINCE BUYING CELTS

    This ownership in exchange for free rent at the garden gets no concessions at all. It is an aweful deal for them and there own fault and stuck there for 10 more years if I'm not mistaken. They need there own stadium where they can run other things like concerts and make money on it. If they had a stadium of there own they'd make money hand over fist. It's there fault for not making an effort.
     
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    Re: AS CAPITALISM KEEPS BEING DUNKED ON, GROUSBECK +OWNERS AVERAGE ONLY 16M PER YEAR SINCE BUYING CELTS

    Why do you think the ownwers will not cave in this time...The unions are out of bullets...The owners know whats coming, they are tightening the belts.They are being threatened with taxes and made out to be the greedy sob..while the Gov keeps screwing the ordinary joe's..with what starts out as something to protect the consumer..

    This mortgage fiasco actually started way back in the 70's by the Carter administration, with the Community  Redevelopment Act, to prevent redlining ( forced banks to lend in all areas) which had good intentions, as all goverment laws do initially. But every administration continued to feed the monster for fear of being re elected...I have been in the mortgage banking business since the 80'
    s. and this administration is at it again!http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/11_20/b4228031594062.htm
     
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    Re: AS CAPITALISM KEEPS BEING DUNKED ON, GROUSBECK +OWNERS AVERAGE ONLY 16M PER YEAR SINCE BUYING CELTS

    Hey Start..take a look at the history, and tell me which one sucks...Here is a breakdown of each president and the average unemployment rate while they were in office: The average rate during those 8 years you pointed to was 5..27% about the same as the previous 8 years with clinton.
    ..Its over 9% today and climbing..almost twice...which one really sucks out of all these..??
    .waith till it reaches 12% which i predict in the next 18 months
    as well as gas prices hitting 5 dollars per gallon..

    What then...??..I hope im wrong, believe me..I don't want to get laid off..

    The reason is mainly as one poster said..the fed, keeps printing money, even buying their own bonds.trying to keep a lid on rates, and inflation..Thats like you getting laid off, and you go out and max your credit cards, write checks all over town to buy things...what do you think is going to happen??? The only question is how long, and how drastic.If we stop borowing, it will be drastic, but recovery will be sooner..if we continue borrowing, it will be a slow, painfull, process..which would you prefer??? Thats really what the current debt talks to raise the ceiling is all about..One side wants to keep borrowing to keep sweeping the problems under the rug and kick the can down the road..the other side, says, enough already,,..sorry to be long winded..

    Harry S. Truman (D) - 4.26%
    Dwight D. Eisenhower (R) - 4.89%
    John F. Kennedy (D) - 5.99%
    Lyndon B. Johnson (D) - 4.22%
    Richard Nixon (R) - 5.00%
    Gerald Ford (R) - 7.77%
    Jimmy Carter (D) - 6.54%
    Ronald Reagan (R) - 7.54%
    George H.W. Bush (R) - 6.3%
    Bill Clinton (D) - 5.2% (two terms)
    George W. Bush (R) - 5.27% (two terms)
    Barack Obama (D) - 9.3% 

     
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    Re: AS CAPITALISM KEEPS BEING DUNKED ON, GROUSBECK +OWNERS AVERAGE ONLY 16M PER YEAR SINCE BUYING CELTS

    First of all , it was in fact Bush and his adm. that wanted to leave its mark with the "ownership society". They absolutely pushed/forced the issue. Not opinion, fact. Bill Clinton was pres. over the biggest economic expansion in modern history. 23million new jobs while all Bush did was create fast food jobs. Not opinion , fact. If you really think that 5.27% tells the whole story your fooling yourself. The country has been underemployed the whole time Bush was Pres. Not my opinion , fact. Listen if you think im some left-wing nut , w/e , couldn't be further from the truth. Fact is Bush absolutely ruined this country and everything were experiencing now came from his Pres.  All of the problems were having now are a direct result of his pres. Not opinion, fact. It was him and his crowd that pushed for deregulation since the 80's. Not my opinion, fact. Are you going to try and argue that isnt a huge reason were in the mess were in? Whats next your going to tell me the werent going into Iraq right after 9/11? Obama hasnt done a very good job at all , im not arguing that at all. The situation were in was almost certain no matter who won.
     
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    Re: AS CAPITALISM KEEPS BEING DUNKED ON, GROUSBECK +OWNERS AVERAGE ONLY 16M PER YEAR SINCE BUYING CELTS

    Only on a BOSTON Celtics message board would you get this kind of  discussion.

    Thank you !

    In PHX , they'd tase you and lock you up for being too smart....not even kidding.



     
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    Re: AS CAPITALISM KEEPS BEING DUNKED ON, GROUSBECK +OWNERS AVERAGE ONLY 16M PER YEAR SINCE BUYING CELTS

    In Response to Re: AS CAPITALISM KEEPS BEING DUNKED ON, GROUSBECK +OWNERS AVERAGE ONLY 16M PER YEAR SINCE BUYING CELTS:
    First of all , it was in fact Bush and his adm. that wanted to leave its mark with the "ownership society". They absolutely pushed/forced the issue. Not 
    Posted by startrightnow

    I ACTUALLy agree with ur view on bushie, loved clinton. the entitlement nonsense that everyone deserved a home no matter what is what has us in this mess plus massive tax cut while spending like a moron in the unnecessary iraq war and making sure to ask americans to make no sacrifices.
     
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    Re: AS CAPITALISM KEEPS BEING DUNKED ON, GROUSBECK +OWNERS AVERAGE ONLY 16M PER YEAR SINCE BUYING CELTS

    In Response to Re: AS CAPITALISM KEEPS BEING DUNKED ON, GROUSBECK +OWNERS AVERAGE ONLY 16M PER YEAR SINCE BUYING CELTS:
    Why do you think the ownwers will not cave in this time...The unions are out of bullets...The owners know whats coming, they are tightening the belts.They are being threatened with taxes and made out to be the greedy sob..while the Gov keeps screwing the ordinary joe's..with what starts out as something to protect the consumer.. This mortgage fiasco actually started way back in the 70's by the Carter administration, with the Community  Redevelopment Act, to prevent redlining ( forced banks to lend in all areas) which had good intentions, as all goverment laws do initially. But every administration continued to feed the monster for fear of being re elected...I have been in the mortgage banking business since the 80' s. and this administration is at it again! http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/11_20/b4228031594062.htm
    Posted by Ortiz123
    great story. the banks should not be forced into deciding who their customers are. those who want to focus there should go their on their own. if blak and white guy have same criteria and blak is told to beat it thats different. as for the owners, nfl owners clearly won in saving themselves $. players get less with that rookie cap with everything else staying in place. the players get lifetime health care and get to practice less with 16 game schedule in place. so better quality of life but less $. for owners, $ is the bottom line.
     
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    Re: AS CAPITALISM KEEPS BEING DUNKED ON, GROUSBECK +OWNERS AVERAGE ONLY 16M PER YEAR SINCE BUYING CELTS

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MGT_cSi7Rs&playnext=1&list=PLB618061C765C0701

     

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMnSp4qEXNM&feature=related

     

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iW5qKYfqALE&feature=related

     

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1Mazjm_A5k&feature=related

     

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XVIAGWtCD10&feature=related

     

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4n5dKztd96k&feature=related

     

    You be the judge......There is enough blame to go around....

     
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    Re: AS CAPITALISM KEEPS BEING DUNKED ON, GROUSBECK +OWNERS AVERAGE ONLY 16M PER YEAR SINCE BUYING CELTS

    Youtube ...... really? Seriously , not trying to be a di ck , but that's pretty weak. You really think there's not 100 videos saying that exact opposite of what your "trying" to prove? People go on there to see "Charlie bit my finger". Not to support a financial argument/debate.

     
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    Re: AS CAPITALISM KEEPS BEING DUNKED ON, GROUSBECK +OWNERS AVERAGE ONLY 16M PER YEAR SINCE BUYING CELTS

    First of all , it was in fact Bush and his adm. that wanted to leave its mark with the "ownership society". They absolutely pushed/forced the issue

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/12/09/fannie-mae-freddie-mac-he_n_149556.html

    http://georgewbush-whitehouse.archives.gov/news/releases/2008/10/20081009-10.html

    http://www.nytimes.com/2003/09/11/business/new-agency-proposed-to-oversee-freddie-mac-and-fannie-mae.html

    Posts: 163
    First: 3/26/2011
    Last: 7/29/2011
    First of all , it was in fact Bush and his adm. that wanted to leave its mark with the "ownership society". They absolutely pushed/forced the issue

    He pushed the issue to have these companies regulated but was turned down 17 times..by congress...and Frank...but i realize that there is no way to convince you, so you win...

     
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    Re: AS CAPITALISM KEEPS BEING DUNKED ON, GROUSBECK +OWNERS AVERAGE ONLY 16M PER YEAR SINCE BUYING CELTS

    Sarbanes-Oxley Act of 2002

    On July 30, 2002, President Bush signed into law the Sarbanes-Oxley Act of 2002, which he characterized as "the most far reaching reforms of American business practices since the time of Franklin Delano Roosevelt." The Act mandated a number of reforms to enhance corporate responsibility, enhance financial disclosures and combat corporate and accounting fraud, and created the "Public Company Accounting Oversight Board," also known as the PCAOB, to oversee the activities of the auditing profession. The full text of the Act is available at:  http://uscode.house.gov/download/pls/15C98.txt. (Please check the Classification Tables maintained by the US House of Representatives Office of the Law Revision Counsel for updates to any of the laws.)  You can find links to all Commission rulemaking and reports issued under the Sarbanes-Oxley Act at:  http://www.sec.gov/spotlight/sarbanes-oxley.htm.

    Note: See also Researching the Federal Securities Laws Through the

    Part of the argument was these GS companies were exemt from this act..
    which made it difficult to monitor and regulate their accounting activities..I am not a Big Bush defender, i just like to get my facts straight...

     
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