Boston Celtics to propose trade for center Marcin Gortat!

  1. This post has been removed.

     
  2. This post has been removed.

     
  3. This post has been removed.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from shines01. Show shines01's posts

    Re: Boston Celtics to propose trade for center Marcin Gortat!

    I just hope he becomes a Celtic.  I hope the Celts can keep Sullinger and Bradley and still acquire Gortat.  The guy moves great at both ends and his defense alongside Garnett would be excellent.  Rondo would make him a threat offensively because he likes to run.  He's also a good man/on-ball defender and shot blocker.  I always liked him when he was behind Howard.  That Orlando team could have beaten us any given game and he was a big part of the reason.  Without a move that brings a legitimate starting center to the Celtics I think we are a .500 team and that aint gonna cut it in the Eastern Conference this year.  Milsap and Big Al don't fit the bill.  Verajao or Gortat would be sweet; of the two, I prefer Gortat.

     
  5. This post has been removed.

     
  6. This post has been removed.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from BCSP. Show BCSP's posts

    Re: Boston Celtics to propose trade for center Marcin Gortat!

    Where there is smoke!

    Is Marcin Gortat the next chapter in the Suns GM mistake manual?

     

    By Jim Coughenour on Nov 28, 1:00p 129

    It's our house, but not necessarily yours for long, Marcin. - Christian Petersen

    Marcin Gortat has been a little bit of a hot stove item recently. Are the Phoenix Suns about to get burned again? It turns out that Jason's great mind and my partially functional brain, due to a rare afflatus, both felt the topic worthy of further examination.

    FACEBOOK   TWITTER

    Prologue written by the eminently qualified and inimitable Jason Feldman. Thank you for collaborating with me on this venture.

    When I was in college, I had the chance to date a Denver Bronco Cheerleader. A few years later, I was all but handed an assistant coaching job with the Cleveland Browns [why? I have no clue]. One time in line at McDonalds, I actually let someone go ahead of me because I was trying to decide if I wanted to supersize [never do that by the way], and the guy won $100,000 in that Monopoly game.

    Woulda, shoulda, coulda!

    Buddha said ""Do not dwell in the past, do not dream of the future, concentrate the mind on the present moment."

    Well, I say shut up Buddha! [Am I going to Naraka for that?]

    I like to spend time agonizing over life's choices gone wrong. It makes it so when things go right, I feel that much greater satisfaction. I am a dweller. And so it goes with the Suns.

    Over the past decade or so, the Suns brass has had many opportunities to tweak and shift their roster. During that time, most of the transactions the Suns made were done as a result of some other circumstance. We acquired Boris Diaw because we failed to keep Joe Johnson. We kept Shawn Marion around too long only to acquire the rotting corpse of Shaq [BTW, I think Shaq needs to make a guest appearance on Walking Dead].We waited and waited until we got absolutely zip for Amare [actually we got worse than zip]. We held on to our beloved HOF point guard only to acquire some low level first round draft picks. In between, we needed to fill in the blanks or clear up roster/cap issues, so we brought in guys like Raja Bell, Jason Richardson, and a host of other nameless non-producers [at least we are trying to wipe memories of them out of our minds], and dumped others and draft picks.

    They say history repeats itself. Whoever "they" are must work for the Suns.

    Once again we sit in a position of weakness with one of our players, when we had every opportunity to proactively make something happen. Back in March and again in July, I wrote an article about trading Marcin Gortat. The idea behind this was to be proactive in parlaying the "hype" surrounding Gortat's increased production/performance into other assets to build this team. It occurred to me that Gortat's value was more than likely never to rise higher, or more importantly that he had hit his ceiling. Certainly at that time, there were teams with GM's that coveted Gortat enough to part ways with good assets. My theory was that over time, GM's would be able to gather more observation and data to talk themselves out of liking Gortat. Additionally, with the roster turnover and the unknown of how he would survive without a certain player feeding him, the probability was high that Gortat's perceived value would decrease over time. Add to that the fact he will be 30 when his contract is up and you get the gist.

    Here we are. After fourteen games of data collection, an inauspicious start to the season and mouthing off about not getting touches, Marcin has played his way backward a bit. While the chance for him to recover is there, a problem still exists.

    Gortat has two years remaining on his contract, and the Suns allowed a contract milestone to pass by without making a definitive decision about the direction they want to go. Knowing Gortat is unhappy means that there is a good chance he will not re-sign with the Suns. Now he is fair game and what any particular team would give up for in a trade just dropped considerably at this point.

    History repeating itself.

    The next milestone will be the trade deadline. I am quite certain that many will bellow and rail against trading Marcin. However, once we get past that point, value in return drops again.

    The truth is, regardless of a trade right now, we are in a position where I believe one of two things can happen: [1] Marcin plays his way out of big money and we keep him around as a middle level contract so-so starter or [2] he continues to produce at this level and garners a near MAX deal over 4 years that the Suns will never pay. In either case, we are not ever going to see enough value in Gortat to warrant doing nothing. It makes no sense to let it get to that.

    What makes most sense is, that despite creating a hole in the middle [that frankly JO is filling quite admirably, and can do so for the same 2 year period Gortat is under contract for probably less money], we should probably showcase the hell out of Gortat to build his value back up and trade him at the deadline to a team that is desperate in need of his services to help them get over the hump. Otherwise we are bound to repeat history yet again.

    ----------

    I completely endorse the previous well elucidated, eloquent, non-partisan, completely fair and in no way scathing (or influenced by my opinion) statement by my esteemed colleague. So now that we've all decided that Gortat must go for the sake of all our souls, we need to set the market.

    Here's what Gortat has done this season sans Nash (limited sample alert):

    11.5 ppg, 8.7 rpg, 2.3 bpg

     

    NBA rankings:

    T-95th in ppg (15th among centers)

    T-140th in p/48 (23rd among centers)

    20th in rpg (10th among centers)

    T-31st in r/48 (13th among centers)

    T-5th in bpg

    13th in b/48

    ----------

    So far this year, by these metrics, Marcin has been a slightly above average (at best) center. Note that he has also posted a career low WS/48 and a PER lower than either of the last two seasons (weigh those in or disregard them completely) combined with recent events and play and I think it's safe to assume that Marcin's stock isn't at an all-time high (like it was last summer).

    Now let's look at an eyeball test, since a definitive analysis tool is a metempirical pursuit (there's always at least one dissenter). Here are the centers I believe are at least as good, or very close to, Gortat.

     

    Centers older than Gortat:

    Tyson Chandler (30) Knicks

    Anderson Varejao (30) Cavaliers

    Centers younger than Gortat:

    DeAndre Jordan (24) Clippers

    Marc Gasol (27) Grizzlies

    Al Jefferson (27) Jazz

    Brook Lopez (24) Nets

    JaVale McGee (24) Nuggets

    Greg Monroe (22) Pistons

    Dwight Howard (26) Lakers

    Brandan Wright (25) Mavericks *one year expiring $1 million deal

    Al Horford (26) Hawks

    Byron Mullens (23) Bobcats

    Joakim Noah (27) Bulls

    Omer Asik (26) Rockets

    Roy Hibbert (25) Pacers

    Andrew Bynum (25) Sixers *crippled players have no trade value - see Stoudemire, Amar'e

     

    In terms of trade value, this list doesn't include players like Jonas Valanciunas (20) Raptors, Andre Drummond (19) Pistons or Meyers Leonard (20) Trail Blazers since there's no way their teams would trade them for Gortat straight up (or with any combination of Suns players, for that matter).

    If you look at that list, I am contending there are at least 15 (Bynum doesn't count) centers playing this year that are comparable to or better than Gortat. There are also other players with more trade value or who teams flat out wouldn't trade (such as those listed above).

    Gortat is also one of the oldest players on the entire list (did you notice what I did there?). So what is his trade value? I would purport that it's possible it's only as much as a contending team needs him.

    So who are the contenders?

    Boston - obvious need, in win now mode, probably have the pieces to make something work if they're motivated (Fab Melo/Jared Sullinger/Avery Bradley/Brandon Bass)

    Milwaukee - obvious need, I'm not sure I see the pieces to make a deal, though (John Henson/Doron Lamb/Larry Sanders).

    Atlanta - obvious need, contending team, Al Horford could slide to the four, do we have enough to get Josh Smith?

    OKC - have some good young pieces (Eric Maynor/Jeremy Lamb/Perry Jones III), but any deal would probably mean swallowing Perkins contract

    San Antonio - Suns not likely to trade with them, that would be awesome though, after we just gave the Lakers Nash, team in win now mode, Kawhi Leonard or Danny Green?

    Golden St. - Andrew Bogut's bones are made of glass, Gortat would be an upgrade, interesting pieces (Klay Thompson/Harrison Barnes) - would they trade either of those guys, though?

    What about teams that (a) aren't contending or (b) don't have as much of a need? Here are a couple of more names Jason and I bounced off each other, i.e. more ammunition to whip you into a frothing, frenzied, fracas:

    Orlando: Aaron Afflalo/Moe Harkless

    Dallas: Jae Crowder/Brandan Wright

    Indiana: Danny Granger

    Memphis: Darrell Arthur

    Minnesota: Derrick Williams/Nikola Pekovic

    Philadelphia: Thaddeus Young/ Evan Turner

    Utah: Derrick Favors/Paul Millsap

    So now that we got you started, ready, set, go!

     

     

     
  8. This post has been removed.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from BCSP. Show BCSP's posts

    Re: Boston Celtics to propose trade for center Marcin Gortat!

    Interesting article:

    The Case for Phoenix Suns Keeping Marcin Gortat Hi-res-6819934_crop_exact  

    Phoenix Suns center Marcin Gortat looks upon a game against the Detroit Pistons
    Tim Fuller-USA TODAY Sports

     It's no secret the Phoenix Suns are amid a troubling time in the history of the franchise.

    The losses are coming at an unprecedented rate and this season could turn out to be the second worst in team history if the current winning percentage (.333) persists.

    One of the few bright spots of the season has been center Marcin Gortat, who has shown to be a top-flight NBA center.

    Gortat's stat-line of 11 PPG, 7.9 RPG, 1.2 APG, 2.0 BPG, 52.5 FG percentage and 69.6 FT percentage has been enough to be one of the better centers in the Western Conference.

    The downside of having a productive player on a losing team is the trade rumors that will surely follow.

    The word has come out that Gortat will not receive a contract extension until his current deal is done, and more trade talk will certainly follow suit.

    However, should the Suns trade one of their best players? In my opinion, they should not.

     Hi-res-156414333_crop_exact  

    Should Marcin Gortat be traded from the Valley of the Sun?

    Gortat could definitely net a decent return, but how does the fourth most successful franchise in NBA history (in terms of winning percentage) explain to the fans that they are starting over again?

    It's bad enough the team hasn't made the playoffs since the 2009-10 season.

    It's not like there aren't capable building blocks already on the roster, as Goran Dragic and Markieff Morris have emerged this season.

    The main fault of this roster is the lack of a bona fide star player. Therefore, all trades should be geared toward acquiring that star player.

    There are only about 15-20 players in the NBA who clearly fall into the realm of being a star player and it's tough to see any of them being available via a Gortat trade.

    What's even more interesting is how only contending teams or teams on the brink of contention would seem to have interest in Gortat

    That dramatically reduces possible trade partners and Boston, Oklahoma City and Miami immediately come to mind as possible fits. 

    Boston has young players to trade Phoenix but would the Suns agree to trade arguably their second best player for, say, Avery Bradley and parts?

    Miami doesn't have a true starting center on their roster but has become content with playing small-ball and probably doesn't have the trade assets to make a deal, anyway.

    Oklahoma City could offer Kendrick Perkins, young players (Jeremy Lamb or Perry Jones III) and a draft pick. This is probably the best Phoenix could do if Gortat was traded away.

    That being said, I'm not sure these trades would dramatically help the future of a ball club that desperately needs a star.

    In my opinion, it makes more sense to keep Gortat and know that one of the better centers in the NBA is on the roster.

     
  10. This post has been removed.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from BCSP. Show BCSP's posts

    Re: Boston Celtics to propose trade for center Marcin Gortat!

    Can't wait! I am a little worried about OKC. They could offer the Suns a package that trumps the Cs! 

    Oklahoma City could offer Kendrick Perkins, young players (Jeremy Lamb or Perry Jones III) and a draft pick. This is probably the best Phoenix could do if Gortat was traded away.

    C'mon DA! bring the Polish Hammer to Boston!

     
  12. This post has been removed.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Ortiz123. Show Ortiz123's posts

    Re: Boston Celtics to propose trade for center Marcin Gortat!

    In response to aciemvp's comment:

    Marcin Gortat?  really!  yeah, now that he's got a HUGE CONTRACT, we'll trade away too much un-realized potential to get gortat at 7 or 8M a year with many years left on his deal.  why is it that ainge is completely unable to obtain and develop any talent at the 5??  teams ARE out there doing it.  darko was benched last year after putting up 8 and 6 with 2 blocks in 24 mins a night in favor of a DIFFERENT russian who was bigger and better!

    and somehow we are so uninspiring for darko that he just leaves the league.  let alone the very idea of digging into overseas talent evaluation and GETTING ourselves one of these big men who are popping up all over the league from the eastern block.

    yeah, let's trade some high draft picks along with something that we'll definitley need for the paid-in-full in both years and $ / year gortat.  dumb move.



    With fans like you, we don't need the trolls..

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from BCSP. Show BCSP's posts

    Re: Boston Celtics to propose trade for center Marcin Gortat!

    In response to Fierce34's comment:

    In response to BCSP's comment:

    Can't wait! I am a little worried about OKC. They could offer the Suns a package that trumps the Cs! 

    Oklahoma City could offer Kendrick Perkins, young players (Jeremy Lamb or Perry Jones III) and a draft pick. This is probably the best Phoenix could do if Gortat was traded away.

    C'mon DA! bring the Polish Hammer to Boston!



    Celts 1st round pick will be better than OKC's 1st round pick.

    Kendrick Perkins? 

    Perk will not fit into the rebuilding plans of the Suns.

    Fab Melo, Courtney Lee, and multiple draft picks for Gortat.

    If not, then Lee for Dalembert.

    Dalembert has always been a very good rebounder and shot-blocker no matter what team he played for.



    Interesting note, Melo has not played in the last two Redclaws game (Sat or today). I have not seen an explanation for his absence.

     

     
  15. This post has been removed.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from BCSP. Show BCSP's posts

    Re: Boston Celtics to propose trade for center Marcin Gortat!

    In response to Fierce34's comment:

    In response to BCSP's comment:

     

    Interesting note, Melo has not played in the last two Redclaws game (Sat or today). I have not seen an explanation for his absence.

    I posted what happened to Melo in the Red Claws thread.



    Got it! Thanks for the info and timely assist!

     
  17. This post has been removed.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Ortiz123. Show Ortiz123's posts

    Re: Boston Celtics to propose trade for center Marcin Gortat!

    In response to 34wheelchair's comment:

    In response to Fierce34's comment:

    Lee, Fab Melo, Wilcox or Collins, and multiple draft picks for Gortat can be done on Dec. 15.




    PHOENIX ALREADY HAS 5 DRAFT PICKS NEXT YEAR.

    THEY NEED A CENTER, NOT MORE DRAFT PICKS!!!!!!!!!

     

    BLESSINGS TO YOU!



    Maybe they could take only the picks that are tradeable...lol

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from concord27. Show concord27's posts

    Re: Boston Celtics to propose trade for center Marcin Gortat!

    In response to Ortiz123's comment:

    In response to 34wheelchair's comment:

    In response to Fierce34's comment:

    Lee, Fab Melo, Wilcox or Collins, and multiple draft picks for Gortat can be done on Dec. 15.




    PHOENIX ALREADY HAS 5 DRAFT PICKS NEXT YEAR.

    THEY NEED A CENTER, NOT MORE DRAFT PICKS!!!!!!!!!

     

    BLESSINGS TO YOU!



    Maybe they could take only the picks that are tradeable...lol



    This is true but they are not playing Gortat and don't seem to want him.  So we can send Melo in the package with Bass or Lee.

     
  20. This post has been removed.

     
Sections
Shortcuts

Share