BPA

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from DrBoogiebone. Show DrBoogiebone's posts

    BPA

    All this speculation on what the Smart pick means for the C's, undermines fans' knowledge. Or does it? I really don't think it meant anything other then the fact that they took the best player available. When building, you accumulate the best and most talented assets you can get your hands on, regardless of need. He could very well be insurance for Rajon or Avery, that's true. It could actually work out that way. But I don't think that is why he was picked. He was the BPA at that selection (IMO). Nothing more to it. Last year, everyone thought the log-jam at PF meant moves were assuredly on the horizon. How'd that work out? It doesn't mean anything. It could. But that's not why the choice was made.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from gman101019. Show gman101019's posts

    Re: BPA

    I do agree that smart was  prob the bpa left. BUT I  understand y fans are upset, pg is the ONLY positon we have an all star at, but we still end up drafting a pg? 

    It could also be argued that ab was our best player last season too, so if you think marcus smart is a 2 (which he is not) then you have essentially drafted a guy at two position that we are strongest.

    The celtics were one of the worst 3 pt shooting teams in the league and they want to play rondo and marcus smart together? Ab in fact was our BEST 3 pt shooter at a near 40% clip (39.5) while also being our best defender.  Maybe smart develops into a very good player like a 4x all star or an all nba defender but maybe he doesnt and you have just moved on from 2 guys who ALREADY have done those things. So you potentially made a BACKWARDS or sideway move at either position.

    The only thing that would make sense is if da knows something that we dont, that one of these guys (prob rondo) is out the door and they need a contigency plan. Even if that is the case I still think we would have been better off going with randle or vonleh. Some might think we are "all set" at the 4 too, but I dont think we are. Hump is gone and bbass is in his last year. So we really only have sully and ko, in todays nba  where you play a lot of small ball and pfs+center are more intechangeble, you need at least a 3 big rotation , especially since sully is prob never going to be a big minute guy due to his weight and conditioning issues. Randle can come in from day 1 and score and rebound the ball he also plays with great effort and energy, between him and sully opposing front lines would have been taking a pounding facing those 2. I would have liked to seen that. .

    Vonleh has a CHANCE to be a very good player, his measurements and SKILLS are very rare to see. He already has an nba ready body at only 19 is a great rebounder, who can handle the ball and shoot it from anywhere.  He can potentially give you some rim protection too.  While he needs time to develop if you can shoot and rebound you can come in and play some right away.

    While I still think smart is prob the bpa the real question is by how much? If you think he is BY FAR the bpa then fine make the pick at a position of absolutely no need, but if its a toss up or very close then you should always take the big.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from DrBoogiebone. Show DrBoogiebone's posts

    Re: BPA

    gman, it's not about trying to fit these pieces together at this stage. To my understanding of the whole BPA reasoning is that you acquire the best and most talented players you can, regardless of need (step 1).  Then you work out trades/player movement after figuring out who you want to build around/keep (step 2). It's not about strategy at this point. Whether so and so can play together, or whether we have too many players at a certain position. It's a moot point at this stage. Team stats should not be looked at right now. We need to acquire talent 1st and foremost. Why try to put a puzzle together when you hardly have any pieces? Don't bother with all that at this point. Everyone is wanting to jump us to steps 3 or 4 when we're still at 1. DA's main goal right now is to just acquire the best possible talent he can. As I often tell myself, and as the saying goes: "keep it simple, stupid". No sense in jumping the gun.


    They didn't like Vonleh's character. And I can't blame them for not wanting Randle. His demeanor does not sell me on a "winner" type attitude. You really think you know more about evaluating talent then DA and his staff? That's pretty bold.


    Most everyone on this board loves to build championships on paper. And they all have their own reasoning as to why their way should work. And a lot of it actually makes perfect sense. Doesn't mean that's going to be the case. In fact, it rarely works out that way. Fans will just have to continue being upset. By no means is this entire process considered "delightful" by the majority. Especially the beginning stages.


     

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from NoahJustin. Show NoahJustin's posts

    Re: BPA

    In response to DrBoogiebone's comment:  


    gman, it's not about trying to fit these pieces together at this stage. To my understanding of the whole BPA reasoning is that you acquire the best and most talented players you can, regardless of need (step 1).  Then you work out trades/player movement after figuring out who you want to build around/keep (step 2). It's not about strategy at this point. Whether so and so can play together, or whether we have too many players at a certain position. It's a moot point at this stage. Team stats should not be looked at right now. We need to acquire talent 1st and foremost. Why try to put a puzzle together when you hardly have any pieces? Don't bother with all that at this point. Everyone is wanting to jump us to steps 3 or 4 when we're still at 1. DA's main goal right now is to just acquire the best possible talent he can. As I often tell myself, and as the saying goes: "keep it simple, stupid". No sense in jumping the gun.


     


    They didn't like Vonleh's character. And I can't blame them for not wanting Randle. His demeanor does not sell me on a "winner" type attitude. You really think you know more about evaluating talent then DA and his staff? That's pretty bold.


     


    Most everyone on this board loves to build championships on paper. And they all have their own reasoning as to why their way should work. And a lot of it actually makes perfect sense. Doesn't mean that's going to be the case. In fact, it rarely works out that way. Fans will just have to continue being upset. By no means is this entire process considered "delightful" by the majority. Especially the beginning stages.


     


     





    [object HTMLDivElement]  +1

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from fishers5. Show fishers5's posts

    Re: BPA

    I hope this isn't like the IRS computers and will lose the comments regarding all the other draft choices being so much better that the celts choices.   They are all better shooters , ball handlers, rebounders are quicker and faster etc.   Like to bring these up for discussion in 3 years and see if y'all know what you think you do.

    would be fun wouldn't it???

    Always Right.....at least in my mind

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from gman101019. Show gman101019's posts

    Re: BPA

    In response to DrBoogiebone's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    gman, it's not about trying to fit these pieces together at this stage. To my understanding of the whole BPA reasoning is that you acquire the best and most talented players you can, regardless of need (step 1).  Then you work out trades/player movement after figuring out who you want to build around/keep (step 2). It's not about strategy at this point. Whether so and so can play together, or whether we have too many players at a certain position. It's a moot point at this stage. Team stats should not be looked at right now. We need to acquire talent 1st and foremost. Why try to put a puzzle together when you hardly have any pieces? Don't bother with all that at this point. Everyone is wanting to jump us to steps 3 or 4 when we're still at 1. DA's main goal right now is to just acquire the best possible talent he can. As I often tell myself, and as the saying goes: "keep it simple, stupid". No sense in jumping the gun.

     

    They didn't like Vonleh's character. And I can't blame them for not wanting Randle. His demeanor does not sell me on a "winner" type attitude. You really think you know more about evaluating talent then DA and his staff? That's pretty bold.

     

    Most everyone on this board loves to build championships on paper. And they all have their own reasoning as to why their way should work. And a lot of it actually makes perfect sense. Doesn't mean that's going to be the case. In fact, it rarely works out that way. Fans will just have to continue being upset. By no means is this entire process considered "delightful" by the majority. Especially the beginning stages.

     

     So basically since da is the gm, no one can ever question him? When you are building a team you should have a simple goal to improve the team MOST, keep it simple and stupid right? not just take redundant players that dont really address issues or needs. I am not an upset fan I actually think marcus smart is a good player, I just dont agree with the path da is going with, nor do I think marcus smart is the by far the bpa that we should overlook need and fit. That hasto be considered when the talents are very close, which I believe was the case ( and if you dont agree with me, how bout jay bilas, he had both randle and vonleh ahead of smart as bpa when celtics were up at 6) 

    Anyone who watches the celtics knows they needed 2 things. Size and shooting, they get neither in marcus smart. They could have had both in vonleh, also id really like to find out what these "charachter issues"are that they r cncerned but  were able to OVERLOOK marcus's. Cuz in my mind there is not many things worse than going into the stands and putting your hands on a fan, provoked or not.

    Randle was one of the most dominant players in college, was touted as top 3 prospect coming into this season avgd 15 10 shot 50% and can play right now. Him and sully would have been one of the most physical front lines in the league for years to come.  Instead we drafted 2 guys who are backups on our current 25 win team.

    When you pick in the top 6 you should get a guy who can start for you now and potentially be an all star in the future, I think the only way marcus smart starts is if you get the guys ahead of him off the team, becuz hes not beating either one of them out.  

    [/QUOTE]


     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from DrBoogiebone. Show DrBoogiebone's posts

    Re: BPA

    He DOES address an issue. He's young, talented, and arguably the BPA at that pick. What we "need" is talent on this team. Period. Moves can be made. Doesn't mean Rajon, Avery, or Marcus will stay a member of this team. Besides, I already explained my point on addressing needs at this stage of a rebuild, yet you keep going on and on about what we "need" and are lacking. Picking on "need" negates the whole point in taking the BPA. You're chasing your tail. If you don't think Smart was the BPA, that's your opinion. DA saw it differently. Leave it at that.

    Jay Bilas as well as all others will all have varying opinions. It's a crap shoot. Only time will tell. It's redundant to argue/debate it. A great example: Mark Jackson thinks Lebron is the greatest small forward to ever play......... So why should Jay's opinion be singled out here? You're going to listen to Jay Bilas over a guy who has already built an NBA championship team?

    My own opinion: I would have taken Smart over Randle, and Vonleh as well. The kid doesn't duck or hide (Randle) against competition. He wants to play against the best. Size isn't everything. I'm sure 1984's Portland Trailblazers (among many others) would agree with me. They needed size, and passed on Michael Jordan.

    Maybe I'm just more of an "intangibles" guy. Cause when I look at Smart, I see a guy that has it in spades. Leadership, desire, and a hunger to win. Randle looks like he could give a F. And the look on Noah's face tells me he's just happy to be there. All the same, I wish them the best. Well, maybe not Randle.

    Again. You keep talking about team "needs". And I don't care about that. Not right now. I don't need Randle's bio and I'm not a fan. And I'll trust DA on his evaluation of Vonleh. Nor do I think either of them would have been starters for this team as well.

     
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  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from gman101019. Show gman101019's posts

    Re: BPA

    In response to DrBoogiebone's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    He DOES address an issue. He's young, talented, and arguably the BPA at that pick. What we "need" is talent on this team. Period. Moves can be made. Doesn't mean Rajon, Avery, or Marcus will stay a member of this team. Besides, I already explained my point on addressing needs at this stage of a rebuild, yet you keep going on and on about what we "need" and are lacking. Picking on "need" negates the whole point in taking the BPA. You're chasing your tail. If you don't think Smart was the BPA, that's your opinion. DA saw it differently. Leave it at that.

    Jay Bilas as well as all others will all have varying opinions. It's a crap shoot. Only time will tell. It's redundant to argue/debate it. A great example: Mark Jackson thinks Lebron is the greatest small forward to ever play......... So why should Jay's opinion be singled out here? You're going to listen to Jay Bilas over a guy who has already built an NBA championship team?

    My own opinion: I would have taken Smart over Randle, and Vonleh as well. The kid doesn't duck or hide (Randle) against competition. He wants to play against the best. Size isn't everything. I'm sure 1984's Portland Trailblazers (among many others) would agree with me. They needed size, and passed on Michael Jordan.

    Maybe I'm just more of an "intangibles" guy. Cause when I look at Smart, I see a guy that has it in spades. Leadership, desire, and a hunger to win. Randle looks like he could give a F. And the look on Noah's face tells me he's just happy to be there. All the same, I wish them the best. Well, maybe not Randle.

    Again. You keep talking about team "needs". And I don't care about that. Not right now. I don't need Randle's bio and I'm not a fan. And I'll trust DA on his evaluation of Vonleh. Nor do I think either of them would have been starters for this team as well.

    [/QUOTE]
    Any player that we drafted would have fit that criteria. You seem to just hate on randle for some reason, http://www.nbadraft.net/players/julius-randle" rel="nofollow">http://www.nbadraft.net/players/julius-randle  even tho the last line of his strengths reads:"

    "He has drawn positive reviews for his attitude and coach-ability and appears to be a hard working kid that leaves everything on the floor every game and every practice ..." sounds like a guy who gives a fk to me. I think your just a hater cuz hes on the lakers."

    At least I admit that smart is a good player you seem to not want to even entertain the idea that the talent gap is extremely close between all three players and when you couple that with need it would make sense to pass on him.   Idk y this is so hard to comprehend.  And please dont ? vonleh's character we just drafted the guy with the biggest character questions in the whole draft.

    My mention of bilas was simply becuz you said that "You really think you know more about evaluating talent then DA and his staff? That's pretty bold." I think bilas does, his whole career is dedicated to just that evaluating college bball players for espn and he had BOTH vonleh and randle ahead of smart. 

    When you say  "I dont care about team needs, not right now" your basically saying da could not have done wrong in this draft NO MATTER WHO HE SELECTED, becuz any of them would have been TALENT, PERIOD.  Y not get talent and need PERIOD?  

      

     

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from gman101019. Show gman101019's posts

    Re: BPA

    In response to Fiercy's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    BPA or not, the Celts need Smaht because Rondo's going to be traded.

    [/QUOTE]


    This is the ONLY way the marcus smart pick makes sense. 

    I guess you got your wish fiercy, long rebuild and high pick next season too. But not quiet high enough that you get a top player who is worth waiting and rebuilding for we prob get a 4th-8th pick range which puts us in the same boat of 2nd tier talent that gets us another good rotational player/starter.

    As for Drboogiebone, you need to chill man, I think marcus smart is going to be a good player, but at the expense of losing our best player? That doesnt make much sense to me. I would have rather drafted a guy we can build around with rondo and compliments rondo. You seem to be ok with having to get rid of our best player to make room for the bpa in the draft. I thought we needed to ADD TALENT PERIOD. It seems we are adding talent and now having to subtract it to make room.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from BaileyPowe. Show BaileyPowe's posts

    Re: BPA

    In response to Fiercy's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    BPA or not, the Celts need Smaht because Rondo's going to be traded.

    [/QUOTE]


    i can say no he's not with at least as much conviction, fierce. you're too much. 

     
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  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from romneywins. Show romneywins's posts

    Re: BPA

    If your all star point guard was leaving in 12 months because you failed to get good players, I think taking a point in the draft would be heavy on your mind.  There were players on the board that were considered highly by some teams.

     
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  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from scubber. Show scubber's posts

    Re: BPA

    Chicken and egg thing, we don't know which is first.  Ainge long term plan to replace Rondo or Rondo signalling a hesitation to sign on with continued rebuilding process after next season.  Or maybe a little bit of both and Ainge is hedging which basically becomes sort of self fulfilling (draft a PG and then trading Rondo).

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from BaileyPowe. Show BaileyPowe's posts

    Re: BPA

    Cs picked who they felt was BPA at sixth. turns out to be marcus smart. i'm good with that. rondo will be looking to have a big year. i say he and smart will coexist nicely or likely flourish. rondo is closer to the beginning of his prime than he is to it's end. if he can't stave off smart and cannot prove his considerable worth to the celtics then sure, he needs to go. i say rondo is in the driver's seat here. he'll have his opportunity to earn what he wants.

    bp

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from scubber. Show scubber's posts

    Re: BPA

    In response to BaileyPowe's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Cs picked who they felt was BPA at sixth. turns out to be marcus smart. i'm good with that. rondo will be looking to have a big year. i say he and smart will coexist nicely or likely flourish. rondo is closer to the beginning of his prime than he is to it's end. if he can't stave off smart and cannot prove his considerable worth to the celtics then sure, he needs to go. i say rondo is in the driver's seat here. he'll have his opportunity to earn what he wants.

    bp

    [/QUOTE]


    But then the Celtics will risk loosing him for nothing if they let Rondo play out his contract.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from BaileyPowe. Show BaileyPowe's posts

    Re: BPA

    i'm not sure what will happen, but i'll guaran-damn-tee (thank you) what won't happen, and that's that the Cs will lose rondo for nothing.

    bp

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from mellymel3. Show mellymel3's posts

    Re: BPA

    No, they won't...nobody wants him but we'll get a few menthol cig snipes for him I bet!

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from CelticGreenLP. Show CelticGreenLP's posts

    Re: BPA

    It didn't matter who they drafted, or what position. Just the fact that they drafted a kid, any kid instead of trading the pick for an established player points to an all out rebuild. 

    Rondo is going to want to be on a playoff team before he's thirty, there is nothing wrong with that, but it's not happening in Boston. It would have been the same situation if we drafted Randle, Vonleh, Gordon, wiggins...whoever! 

    The fact that the pick didn't turn into Love, Melo, or even someone like Josh Smith signals the end of the Rondo era. 

    Off topic...The idea that Julius Randle is any more NBA ready than Marcus Smart is laughable.  His game and body are custom built for NCAA basketball, not NBA basketball.  And he didn't even put up rediculous #s in college like he should have.  If he was built like that and put up Larry Johnson #s in college (22ppg, 11.5rebs 3asts and led his team to a 27-0 regular season record) I would agree Randle is a lock to be a great player.  But he has to totally remake his game to have a similar impact in the pros as he had in college. And now that he is going to have commandant Kobe screaming in his ear the first part of his career we will probably see him hit a major rookie wall.  This is because it will be frustrating and probably not an enjoyable task as he tries to completely overhaul his offensive game under that steely eyed glare of Bryant's.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from BaileyPowe. Show BaileyPowe's posts

    Re: BPA

    The fact that the pick didn't turn into Love, Melo, or even someone like Josh Smith signals the end of the Rondo era.


    i guess one can look at it like that if one prefers - plenty here doing just that. i'll wait and see what the summer brings.


    bp

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from DrBoogiebone. Show DrBoogiebone's posts

    Re: BPA

    In response to gman101019's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to DrBoogiebone's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    He DOES address an issue. He's young, talented, and arguably the BPA at that pick. What we "need" is talent on this team. Period. Moves can be made. Doesn't mean Rajon, Avery, or Marcus will stay a member of this team. Besides, I already explained my point on addressing needs at this stage of a rebuild, yet you keep going on and on about what we "need" and are lacking. Picking on "need" negates the whole point in taking the BPA. You're chasing your tail. If you don't think Smart was the BPA, that's your opinion. DA saw it differently. Leave it at that.

    Jay Bilas as well as all others will all have varying opinions. It's a crap shoot. Only time will tell. It's redundant to argue/debate it. A great example: Mark Jackson thinks Lebron is the greatest small forward to ever play......... So why should Jay's opinion be singled out here? You're going to listen to Jay Bilas over a guy who has already built an NBA championship team?

    My own opinion: I would have taken Smart over Randle, and Vonleh as well. The kid doesn't duck or hide (Randle) against competition. He wants to play against the best. Size isn't everything. I'm sure 1984's Portland Trailblazers (among many others) would agree with me. They needed size, and passed on Michael Jordan.

    Maybe I'm just more of an "intangibles" guy. Cause when I look at Smart, I see a guy that has it in spades. Leadership, desire, and a hunger to win. Randle looks like he could give a F. And the look on Noah's face tells me he's just happy to be there. All the same, I wish them the best. Well, maybe not Randle.

    Again. You keep talking about team "needs". And I don't care about that. Not right now. I don't need Randle's bio and I'm not a fan. And I'll trust DA on his evaluation of Vonleh. Nor do I think either of them would have been starters for this team as well.

    [/QUOTE]
    Any player that we drafted would have fit that criteria. You seem to just hate on randle for some reason, http://www.nbadraft.net/players/julius-randle" rel="nofollow">http://www.nbadraft.net/players/julius-randle" rel="nofollow">http://www.nbadraft.net/players/julius-randle  even tho the last line of his strengths reads:"

    "He has drawn positive reviews for his attitude and coach-ability and appears to be a hard working kid that leaves everything on the floor every game and every practice ..." sounds like a guy who gives a fk to me. I think your just a hater cuz hes on the lakers."

    At least I admit that smart is a good player you seem to not want to even entertain the idea that the talent gap is extremely close between all three players and when you couple that with need it would make sense to pass on him.   Idk y this is so hard to comprehend.  And please dont ? vonleh's character we just drafted the guy with the biggest character questions in the whole draft.

    My mention of bilas was simply becuz you said that "You really think you know more about evaluating talent then DA and his staff? That's pretty bold." I think bilas does, his whole career is dedicated to just that evaluating college bball players for espn and he had BOTH vonleh and randle ahead of smart. 

    When you say  "I dont care about team needs, not right now" your basically saying da could not have done wrong in this draft NO MATTER WHO HE SELECTED, becuz any of them would have been TALENT, PERIOD.  Y not get talent and need PERIOD?  

      

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Any player we drafted would have fit the BPA criteria? Really? Can't agree with you there. Just because I'm not a fan of Randle doesn't mean I "hate" the guy. Taking it a bit to the extreme aren't you? Besides, I wasn't a fan before the Lakers took him either. You're obviously a fan of his, so I didn't mean to upset you with my unfavorable opinion of the guy. You're not going to show this to TMZ and try to take away what's rightfully mine are you? Just kidding. And "I" didn't question Vonleh's character. It was reported that DA and his staff had "character issues" with Vonleh. Not me. I'm speculating, but maybe DA believes Smart holds more value then either Randle or Vonleh in this league, in case a move was/is made. Maybe that held the most sway in his decision. Anyway, we seem to have gotten off point here.

    My whole reason for starting this thread was to attempt to relax all this talk of what the Smart pick meant for this team. Is Rondo gone? Is Avery gone? It must mean this. It must mean that. I think people were reading more into it then what it actually was, simply taking the BPA. That's all he was aiming for. DA took who he thought was the best player available. He's just acquiring/accumulating the best talent he can. The Smart pick doesn't mean Rondo or Avery is being replaced. It very well could end up that way down the road. But I don't believe that's why the Smart choice was made. That's the only point I was trying to make with this thread.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from DrBoogiebone. Show DrBoogiebone's posts

    Re: BPA

    In response to Fiercy's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    BPA or not, the Celts need Smaht because Rondo's going to be traded.

    [/QUOTE]

    And there's Fierce. Waving that banner of self righteousness. Tell me something Fierce, are your friends and family as proud/boastful of you as you are of yourself? Just wondering...

     
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  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from DrBoogiebone. Show DrBoogiebone's posts

    Re: BPA

    In response to Fiercy's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to DrBoogiebone's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

     

    And there's Fierce. Waving that banner of self righteousness. Tell me something Fierce, are your friends and family as proud/boastful of you as you are of yourself? Just wondering...

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    It just doesn't make sense to draft Smaht and keep Rondo.

     

     

    We all know Rondo's asking for a max contract next year.

     

    You will give Rondo a max contract when the Celts already have Smaht?

     

     

     

    I'm only stating the obvious.

    [/QUOTE]

    I wouldn't give Rondo a max contract. No sir. If you read any of my other posts in this thread, I've explained what I believe the 6th pick to be. I don't know that Rondo is asking for the max. I assume he'll try to get as much as he can. I hear "others" saying Rondo wants a max deal. I don't hear "Rondo" himself, saying he wants a max deal.

     

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