Build Through The Draft

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    Re: Build Through The Draft

    In response to Fierce34's comment:

    In response to OneOnOne's comment: 

    Remember, Wade won a championship without Lebron.

    Like I said, Boston is not a city that's as attractive as LA or NY.

    Let's be realistic, the Celts never got big name free-agents before KG and Ray came to Boston to join Pierce. And KG and Ray were acquired through trades.

    If the Celts didn't become the 2nd worst team in the league in 2007, no #5 pick, no Ray, thus no KG!



    "Boston is not a city that's as attractive as LA or NY" and not every player can fill out those rosters.  Are Memphis, Minneapolis, Milwaukee, Oklahoma City, Indianapolis, et al more of an attraction that Boston?  Hardly (even though Milwaukee has seen a remarkable renaissance).  If all things were equal, meaning available money, Boston would be a highly desireable place to land if winning is important.  If it's just the money then it's just about the money and those players are not going to be that helpful or productive.  Does Sidney Wickes ring a bell?  Anyway, please don't fall into the homegrown LA/NY glitter syndrome. There are four teams in the two cities, and they can't literally scoop up all of the best FAs or draft all of the best players each year.  

    .

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from SFBostonFan. Show SFBostonFan's posts

    Re: Build Through The Draft

     

    KG & PP to retire in California(where they have homes) but not in the South...trade them & Rondo to GS for Curry(best scoring PG in the game), David Lee( better than KG now but not in his youth, of course, and reminds me of Dave Cowens) and Bogut...playing great center. The fans would be rioting in the streets of SF.


    OK, I'm California dreaming so please don't lay into me !!!

     
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  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bird-to-DJ. Show Bird-to-DJ's posts

    Re: Build Through The Draft

    Fierce,

    Obviously, noone builds entirely thorugh the draft and it may be rare, but here's one example:

    Bulls: Rose (#1), Noah (#9), Gibson (#26), Butler (#30 - great pick); Deng (#7 - yes a draft day trade but so wasn't Rondo); Teague (#29) and even Hinrich was originally #7 befor ebeing traded to the Wiz.  Obviously, helps to have very few misses in your drafting.

    Core FA signings: Robinosn, Belinelli; Core trades: Boozer (S&T)

    I think the Pacers also have a significant draft presence (Hibbert, George, Hansborough, Granger, Stepehnson).  Hill was traded for draft pick that became Leonard for the Spurs and David West obviosuly a FA signing - but the draft provided the core.

    Not sure whether this helps or hurts your primary point, but here are tow teams still playing whose roster is primarily draft built and not the signing or trading for established players...

     
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  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from susan250. Show susan250's posts

    Re: Build Through The Draft

    In response to OneOnOne's comment:

    In response to Fierce34's comment:

     

    In response to OneOnOne's comment:

     

     

    which teams in recent history built their championship thru the draft?

    The Spurs are the only ones I know of.  That was pure luck of Robinson being out all season and they got lucky and got Duncan.

    Players move around too much these days.  There are only a few competitive teams now that built their teams mostly thru the draft.  Chicago and the Thunder.

     

     



    Besides the Thunder and the Bulls, the Heat got Wade with the #5 pick of the 2003 Draft and Dirk taken by Dallas #9 in 1998.

     

    Remember, Wade won a championship without Lebron.

     

    Like I said, Boston is not a city that's as attractive as LA or NY.

    Let's be realistic, the Celts never got big name free-agents before KG and Ray came to Boston to join Pierce. And KG and Ray were acquired through trades.

    If the Celts didn't become the 2nd worst team in the league in 2007, no #5 pick, no Ray, thus no KG!

     



    Wade won a championship because they traded for Shaq.

     

    Your naming one player on a team.  Thats not building thru the draft.  Thats just getting one player.  The Mavs got their players thru trades as well.  None of the teams your mentioning actually built thru the draft unless you count getting a superstar.  That doesn't happen very often.  Like I said name me some teams that built thru the draft.  Just doesn't happen much these days.  Players move very often from team to team.  Trades and free agents are the way to build a team,  along with getting lucky with some draft picks.


    I agree with you about Shaq.  He is probably a big reason they won the championship.  Also Posey also helped them to win but in a smaller role.  If I remember correctly, terrible officiating also helped them to win the championship. 

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Ortiz123. Show Ortiz123's posts

    Re: Build Through The Draft

    In response to Fierce34's comment:

    In response to BosoxJoe5's comment:

     

    Drafting is not the way to unless you want to really bad for 10 years and hope to be good for a couple. You need to be aggressive and made trades. If I was DA and their was a glimmer of hope to get Griffin with oit giving up Green or Rondo, I do it.

     



    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

     

    Getting Griffin without giving up Rondo or Green?

    Avery Bradley for Blake Griffin?

    How can you be aggressive in making trades if you don't have assets?

    It cost the Celtics the #5 pick of the 2007 Draft to get a soon to be 32-year old Ray Allen.

    If the Celts didn't get that #5 pick, no Ray, and no KG!



    and that pick turned into Green...and we have him and still need to rebuild..

     

     
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  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from prakash. Show prakash's posts

    Re: Build Through The Draft

    Fierce, trying to follow OKC is like so many teams trying to follow the 3-guard strategy after the Pistons' success.  For one OKC there are the Bulls, Clippers, Portland, Charlotte and others.  At the end of the day, it is very simple, you have to maximize every opportunity: draft, free-agents and trades.  And then you have to hope to be in the right place at the right time to make that big hit.

    Remember, the Celts had the best odds to get the first pick to draft Duncan?  San Antonio was nowhere in the odds picture.  Ended up in a disaster.  Same with the 2007 draft.  The Celts ended up with Jeff Green, instead of Durant, whom they traded and got back but you don't consider him to be a special player.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from SFBostonFan. Show SFBostonFan's posts

    Re: Build Through The Draft

    I think the answer is to bite the bullet & improve, albeit it'll take a couple of years, by drafting & getting all young players.


    The GS Warriors after a devastating loss leading by 16 with 4 min to go in game # 1, did not fall apart and won # 2 on the Spurs home court and I felt it was their youth that helped beat the older Duncan & Ginoboli. I still think San Antonio is best suited to compete with the Heat, if they beat GS and Memphis or OKC, but if the Warriors had David Lee, one of the best PFs in the game and 2nd leading scorer & Curry & Thompson, young & agressive & giving them 40-50 pts, I'd say they's be a cinderella favorite. Bogut is playing terrific at center.  I'd love the Cs to have a Curry and Lee. Living in SF I'm a local fan too & will attend both of the next home games.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from BostonTrollSpanker. Show BostonTrollSpanker's posts

    Re: Build Through The Draft

    "sadly, rondo and his career 61% free throws (horrid for a PG) is probably your best trade bait. "

    Umm..totally wrong. Rondo is by far the highest trade value on the team because he is signed to a very reasonable contract. He just has to show he is healthy first. 

    "you might be able to trick a team into taking some other parts- terry or bass to get the $$ up and get the return up."

    Get the $ up - yes. Get the return up - c'mon man - you can't get the return up by throwing in those kind of extra wheels.

    At any rate no one is trading for Rondo till he gets back on the floor, and I'm sure Ainge wants to see how he and Bradley play together also. 

    Fierce the one thing where I would take issue: I do agree that in Boston you need some decent draft picks, but the problem is you are not taking into account the Celtics owners care about attendance and TV ratings. I'm not sure they are willing to go through a terrible season at this point.

    Especially given that Ainge does have an occasional knack for drafting a solid player at a later position, I could see them focusing on that. 

     

     
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  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Gasthoerer. Show Gasthoerer's posts

    Re: Build Through The Draft

    In response to Ortiz123's comment:


    and that pick turned into Green...and we have him and still need to rebuild..



    Wow, this logic is ... confusing!

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from prakash. Show prakash's posts

    Re: Build Through The Draft

    In response to Fierce34's comment:

    In response to prakash's comment:

     

    Fierce, trying to follow OKC is like so many teams trying to follow the 3-guard strategy after the Pistons' success.  For one OKC there are the Bulls, Clippers, Portland, Charlotte and others.  At the end of the day, it is very simple, you have to maximize every opportunity: draft, free-agents and trades.  And then you have to hope to be in the right place at the right time to make that big hit.

    Remember, the Celts had the best odds to get the first pick to draft Duncan?  San Antonio was nowhere in the odds picture.  Ended up in a disaster.  Same with the 2007 draft.  The Celts ended up with Jeff Green, instead of Durant, whom they traded and got back but you don't consider him to be a special player.

     



    Like I said, when was the last time the Celts signed a free-agent All-Star player? 

     

    And I mean not a washed up All-Star player like Rasheed Wallace.

     

    If the Celts got Durant in 2007 then Ainge would not have traded Durant.

    Here's the thing, how do you acquire assets? 

    It's only through the draft that you can get quality players that you can use in a trade.

    Having the 21st pick every year because you keep fighting for the 7th or 8th seed is a waste of time.


    You missed my point completely.  I am OK with gambling but not all or nothing bets.  Danny has been making bets.  If the Celts did not get hit by a series of unfortunate injuries, to young players too, he would have a lot more to show for his efforts.  I am simply arguing that the plan has to be more comprehensive than just build through draft.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from teejaytee70. Show teejaytee70's posts

    Re: Build Through The Draft

    ESPN predicts this player drops to the Celtics at 16.  If this happens, the Celtics will be very, very, very lucky.  I think they should trade up a few spaces to ensure getting him.  I would take this kid over Dieng.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqrCrPROw6M

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from kyceltic. Show kyceltic's posts

    Re: Build Through The Draft

    In response to Fierce34's comment:

    In response to SFBostonFan's comment:

     

    I think the answer is to bite the bullet & improve, albeit it'll take a couple of years, by drafting & getting all young players.


    The GS Warriors after a devastating loss leading by 16 with 4 min to go in game # 1, did not fall apart and won # 2 on the Spurs home court and I felt it was their youth that helped beat the older Duncan & Ginoboli. I still think San Antonio is best suited to compete with the Heat, if they beat GS and Memphis or OKC, but if the Warriors had David Lee, one of the best PFs in the game and 2nd leading scorer & Curry & Thompson, young & agressive & giving them 40-50 pts, I'd say they's be a cinderella favorite. Bogut is playing terrific at center.  I'd love the Cs to have a Curry and Lee. Living in SF I'm a local fan too & will attend both of the next home games.

     



    Yes!

     

    Steph Curry, Klay Thompson, and Harrison Barnes were all acquired through the lottery.

    Sometimes you need to take a step back to move two steps forward.

    The Celts being in the lottery for 1 or 2 seasons is not as bad as some here would think.

    +6


     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from concord27. Show concord27's posts

    Re: Build Through The Draft

    In response to kyceltic's comment:

    In response to Fierce34's comment:

     

    In response to SFBostonFan's comment:

     

    I think the answer is to bite the bullet & improve, albeit it'll take a couple of years, by drafting & getting all young players.


    The GS Warriors after a devastating loss leading by 16 with 4 min to go in game # 1, did not fall apart and won # 2 on the Spurs home court and I felt it was their youth that helped beat the older Duncan & Ginoboli. I still think San Antonio is best suited to compete with the Heat, if they beat GS and Memphis or OKC, but if the Warriors had David Lee, one of the best PFs in the game and 2nd leading scorer & Curry & Thompson, young & agressive & giving them 40-50 pts, I'd say they's be a cinderella favorite. Bogut is playing terrific at center.  I'd love the Cs to have a Curry and Lee. Living in SF I'm a local fan too & will attend both of the next home games.

     



    Yes!

     

    Steph Curry, Klay Thompson, and Harrison Barnes were all acquired through the lottery.

    Sometimes you need to take a step back to move two steps forward.

    The Celts being in the lottery for 1 or 2 seasons is not as bad as some here would think.

     

    +6


     



    Seth Curry and Klay Thompson went in the low teens of their drafts.  It was good drafting.  

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from prakash. Show prakash's posts

    Re: Build Through The Draft

    In response to teejaytee70's comment:

    ESPN predicts this player drops to the Celtics at 16.  If this happens, the Celtics will be very, very, very lucky.  I think they should trade up a few spaces to ensure getting him.  I would take this kid over Dieng.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqrCrPROw6M



    Another passer that can't shoot?

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from teejaytee70. Show teejaytee70's posts

    Re: Build Through The Draft

    In response to prakash's comment:

    In response to teejaytee70's comment:

     

    ESPN predicts this player drops to the Celtics at 16.  If this happens, the Celtics will be very, very, very lucky.  I think they should trade up a few spaces to ensure getting him.  I would take this kid over Dieng.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqrCrPROw6M

     



    Another passer that can't shoot?

     




    Yeah.  Not a great shooter (from the perimeter or free throws), but is a great passer and can create his own shot.  What do you want at 16? -the perfect player isn't going to be there.  If he could shoot from the outside than he'd be going in the top 3.  I like Shabazz Muhammed, but he's not a great shooter either and I don't believe the Celtics will be able to move up to get him.  Carter-Williams shot 43% from the floor last year and Muhammed shot 44%.  I'll take the play maker with a team friendly 5 year contract who could make Rondo redundant and tradeable.  Don't like Dieng at all - no real post game.  He scores mostly off of dunks from lob passes - not going to happen in the NBA.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from prakash. Show prakash's posts

    Re: Build Through The Draft

    In response to teejaytee70's comment:

    In response to prakash's comment:

     

    In response to teejaytee70's comment:

     

    ESPN predicts this player drops to the Celtics at 16.  If this happens, the Celtics will be very, very, very lucky.  I think they should trade up a few spaces to ensure getting him.  I would take this kid over Dieng.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqrCrPROw6M

     



    Another passer that can't shoot?

     

     




     

    Yeah.  Not a great shooter (from the perimeter or free throws), but is a great passer and can create his own shot.  What do you want at 16? -the perfect player isn't going to be there.  If he could shoot from the outside than he'd be going in the top 3.  I like Shabazz Muhammed, but he's not a great shooter either and I don't believe the Celtics will be able to move up to get him.  Carter-Williams shot 43% from the floor last year and Muhammed shot 44%.  I'll take the play maker with a team friendly 5 year contract who could make Rondo redundant and tradeable.  Don't like Dieng at all - no real post game.  He scores mostly off of dunks from lob passes - not going to happen in the NBA.




    It will be good for this board.  If this happens, people here will be able to bash Rondo and Carter-Williams.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from kyceltic. Show kyceltic's posts

    Re: Build Through The Draft

    In response to Fierce34's comment:

    In response to SFBostonFan's comment:

     

    I think the answer is to bite the bullet & improve, albeit it'll take a couple of years, by drafting & getting all young players.


    The GS Warriors after a devastating loss leading by 16 with 4 min to go in game # 1, did not fall apart and won # 2 on the Spurs home court and I felt it was their youth that helped beat the older Duncan & Ginoboli. I still think San Antonio is best suited to compete with the Heat, if they beat GS and Memphis or OKC, but if the Warriors had David Lee, one of the best PFs in the game and 2nd leading scorer & Curry & Thompson, young & agressive & giving them 40-50 pts, I'd say they's be a cinderella favorite. Bogut is playing terrific at center.  I'd love the Cs to have a Curry and Lee. Living in SF I'm a local fan too & will attend both of the next home games.

     



    Yes!

     

    Steph Curry, Klay Thompson, and Harrison Barnes were all acquired through the lottery.

    Sometimes you need to take a step back to move two steps forward.

    The Celts being in the lottery for 1 or 2 seasons is not as bad as some here would think.

      Agree 100%.  Say we trade Bradley and the 16 for a lottery pick. KG and PIerce are either traded or retire. Lets say Rondo pulls a David Robinson and is not ready for the start of next season. That would pretty much mean the Celtics would be very bad, like 16 and 66 bad. Now is where we need a little luck, say the ping pong balls go our way, we're due by the way, and we get the first pick in the 2014 draft. With that pick the Celtics take Andrew Wiggins, if you haven't heard of Wiggins believe me you will. with Rondo and our two lottery picks, and the right building blocks we will be in the hunt in 3 to 4 years!!  Maybe sooner.


     
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