Build through the Draft

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from romneywins. Show romneywins's posts

    Build through the Draft

    It is very hard to build through the draft.  Our picks will be tooooooo lowww.  The draft can be used to get a player or two but we must invent a way to get a stud to anchor our team.  We do not have him now and I see no way we can obtain him through the draft, unless we use the picks in a trade.  Keep Rondo, Sully and KO and try every way to get a real stud.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from romneywins. Show romneywins's posts

    Re: Build through the Draft

    In response to romneywins' comment:


    It is very hard to build through the draft.  Our picks will be tooooooo lowww.  The draft can be used to get a player or two but we must invent a way to get a stud to anchor our team.  We do not have him now and I see no way we can obtain him through the draft, unless we use the picks in a trade.  Keep Rondo, Sully and KO and try every way to get a real stud.



    Trade Rondo for picks and we are forever in middle of the pack.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from billge. Show billge's posts

    Re: Build through the Draft

    Or we could build a raft.  R u commenting on your own comments?

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from scubber. Show scubber's posts

    Re: Build through the Draft

    Just about everyone in some ways built through the draft.  One step at a time, it has only been one year of rebuilding.  What we need the most right now is making good picks from what we have.  We can attract good FA if we first have some good core players.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from gman101019. Show gman101019's posts

    Re: Build through the Draft


    Everyone talks about okc and building thru the draft, that is more the exception then the rule. They got lucky getting durant. (tho they did make very good picks with westbrook, harden and ibaka). But durant was the key.


    Most all  other CHAMPIONSHIP quality teams were built, with free agents or trades (miami,celtics,lakers)


    The only way you can  build a CHAMPIONSHIP caliber team thru the draft is if you hit on a top 5 type player, durant, lebron, duncan, mj, hakeem,shaq etc and then you can add pieces, but those guys are super rare and almost impossible to get if you dont have a top pick (durant and mj went 2 and 3 respectively, all others were #1 picks).


    Even if we get lucky and land a top 3 pick, I dont see that type of transcedent player in this years draft anyway.


    That is why this years offseason is so intriguing, Da can go so many different routes. Tho I think if we win the lotto and end up top 3 we will build that way if we dont then there is a much higher possiblity of a big trade.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from scubber. Show scubber's posts

    Re: Build through the Draft

    You mentioned Miami and the Lakers, Miami first had Wade and the Lakers first had Kobe, both of which are not top 3 draft picks.  Well arguably they both first started with building through the draft.  And for the Celtics, we had Pierce.  Without those right moves from the picks, who knows where they and we (Celtics) would have been?

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from DaCeltics. Show DaCeltics's posts

    Re: Build through the Draft

    Right now we have a lot of good players. We need to make some great ones out of them through development or trade.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from gman101019. Show gman101019's posts

    Re: Build through the Draft

    In response to scubber's comment:


    You mentioned Miami and the Lakers, Miami first had Wade and the Lakers first had Kobe, both of which are not top 3 draft picks.  Well arguably they both first started with building through the draft.  And for the Celtics, we had Pierce.  Without those right moves from the picks, who knows where they and we (Celtics) would have been?




    Kobe and wade both couldnt win without shaq and then kobe got pau gasol the 2nd time around. Both thru trades. Without those TRADES they would have just been good/mid playoff teams, not championship teams. .

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from gman101019. Show gman101019's posts

    Re: Build through the Draft

    When kobe was by himself he barely made the playoffs last year ( he actually had gasol and dwight) and before dwade joined up with lebron and bosh, he got smoked in the 1st round by our cs.


    The cs are not far off from being that caliber of team, they are a good draft pick and a serviceable center away from being a low to middle seed in the playoffs. If  thats the goal we can accomplish that by  simply taking the bpa this year and trade for asik.        

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from mellymel3. Show mellymel3's posts

    Re: Build through the Draft

    In response to DaCeltics' comment:


    Right now we have a lot of good players. We need to make some great ones out of them through development or trade.




    Ahhhhhhhhhhhh...hold that thought for JUSSSTTTT a moment.....we have some players that could play for other teams...we don't have but one or two, MAX,  who could START for another NBA team...I count only Rondo and maybe, MAYBE, Green...we have several guys with particular talents but not with complete games...the entire talent level of the team has to be vastly increased...the fact that we played as hard as possible for nearly every game and still sucked should be testimony to how "untalented" out "talent" base is....the record, and the eyes, don't lie...as Bill Belichik says, we are what our record says we are.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from chris33. Show chris33's posts

    Re: Build through the Draft

    It is easy to build through the draft.....


    2014 - two first round picks, ours and the worse of the Nets and the Hawks
    2015 - three first round picks, ours and the Clippers and maybe the 76ers
    2016 - two first round picks, ours and the Nets
    2017 - one first round pick, the better of ours or the Nets
    2018 - two first round picks, ours and the Nets

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from mellymel3. Show mellymel3's posts

    Re: Build through the Draft

    Build through draft?...How else do you build?...Even if you trade draft choices and players for other better players you're still trading the "future" , the draft choices, to another team...the throw-ins are usually overpriced crappy players, for the most part, who help the trade work for salary purposes...


    If you want to increase the talent level of this team, you can use the picks -THE DRAFT - or package picks -IN THE DRAFT-and some incompletely talented players for better players...the draft is absolutely the key to what you are trying to do if you're a bad team no matter how you look at this situation...

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from gman101019. Show gman101019's posts

    Re: Build through the Draft

    In response to mellymel3's comment:


    In response to DaCeltics' comment:


     


    Right now we have a lot of good players. We need to make some great ones out of them through development or trade.


     




    Ahhhhhhhhhhhh...hold that thought for JUSSSTTTT a moment.....we have some players that could play for other teams...we don't have but one or two, MAX,  who could START for another NBA team...I count only Rondo and maybe, MAYBE, Green...we have several guys with particular talents but not with complete games...the entire talent level of the team has to be vastly increased...the fact that we played as hard as possible for nearly every game and still sucked should be testimony to how "untalented" out "talent" base is....the record, and the eyes, don't lie...as Bill Belichik says, we are what our record says we are.






    We can obviously use more talent, but you have to factor in development, how much better can sully and ko get? Sully stats this year are compareable to klove 2nd year stats, is he going to take that big leap in year 3 and beyond? Or is he gonna stay put and be what he ALREADY is which is a very good rotational big for a playoff team (think taj gibson, nene type) who can be a starter on some bad teams.


    Is ko going to be more dirk or more andre bargnani? This is almost more important than adding talent, is developing the talent you already have, especially on a young team such as this.


     I think  sully, ab, ko  are all "good players" fringe starters/ big playoff roational minutes on a playoff team. Thats pretty good for a bunch of guys who are under 23 but what will they become is the big ?.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from scubber. Show scubber's posts

    Re: Build through the Draft

    In response to gman101019's comment:


    In response to scubber's comment:


     


    You mentioned Miami and the Lakers, Miami first had Wade and the Lakers first had Kobe, both of which are not top 3 draft picks.  Well arguably they both first started with building through the draft.  And for the Celtics, we had Pierce.  Without those right moves from the picks, who knows where they and we (Celtics) would have been?


     




    Kobe and wade both couldnt win without shaq and then kobe got pau gasol the 2nd time around. Both thru trades. Without those TRADES they would have just been good/mid playoff teams, not championship teams. .





    My point is generally you need good player first.  Shaq would not go to the Lakers without Kobe.  Lebron would not go to the Heat without Wade.  KG would not have come here without Pierce.  I don't think you can trade your way to a championship with just draft picks, that is very difficult and unrealistic because no super-star will ever want to go to a bad team that is dumping all their draft picks to get him.  I think people are a bit unrealistic to believe that if they can come up with a few plausible trades for super-stars, it can easily happen with the Celtics.


    If you want to trade for good players, first let's get our team to a respectable level with a few promising players.

     
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  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from gman101019. Show gman101019's posts

    Re: Build through the Draft

    In response to scubber's comment:


    In response to gman101019's comment:


     


    In response to scubber's comment:


     


     


     


    You mentioned Miami and the Lakers, Miami first had Wade and the Lakers first had Kobe, both of which are not top 3 draft picks.  Well arguably they both first started with building through the draft.  And for the Celtics, we had Pierce.  Without those right moves from the picks, who knows where they and we (Celtics) would have been?


     


     


     




    Kobe and wade both couldnt win without shaq and then kobe got pau gasol the 2nd time around. Both thru trades. Without those TRADES they would have just been good/mid playoff teams, not championship teams. .


     





    My point is generally you need good player first.  Shaq would not go to the Lakers without Kobe.  Lebron would not go to the Heat without Wade.  KG would not have come here without Pierce.  I don't think you can trade your way to a championship with just draft picks, that is very difficult and unrealistic because no super-star will ever want to go to a bad team that is dumping all their draft picks to get him.  I think people are a bit unrealistic to believe that if they can come up with a few plausible trades for super-stars, it can easily happen with the Celtics.


     


    If you want to trade for good players, first let's get our team to a respectable level with a few promising players.






    I agree it helps when you have established  star players (like kobe and dwade). I think Rondo should be considered an established star, tho not at the level of dwade or kobe of course. But he is a 4x all star who before injury, just as recent as 2012 finished in the 8th in mvp vote.  I know  many on this board will disagree with all the rondo hate, but these are FACTS. You can not argue his credentials and accomplishments.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from billge. Show billge's posts

    Re: Build through the Draft

    Lets face it, Rondo could really help some good teams.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from romneywins. Show romneywins's posts

    Re: Build through the Draft

    In response to billge's comment:


    Or we could build a raft.  R u commenting on your own comments?




    NO , just not as intelligent and thoughtful as you .  

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from romneywins. Show romneywins's posts

    Re: Build through the Draft

    Draft picks and players to get a good player this year, and draft picks and players to get another one next year, that adds us to 2.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from mellymel3. Show mellymel3's posts

    Re: Build through the Draft

    In response to gman101019's comment:


    In response to mellymel3's comment:


     


    In response to DaCeltics' comment:


     


     


     


    Right now we have a lot of good players. We need to make some great ones out of them through development or trade.


     


     


     




    Ahhhhhhhhhhhh...hold that thought for JUSSSTTTT a moment.....we have some players that could play for other teams...we don't have but one or two, MAX,  who could START for another NBA team...I count only Rondo and maybe, MAYBE, Green...we have several guys with particular talents but not with complete games...the entire talent level of the team has to be vastly increased...the fact that we played as hard as possible for nearly every game and still sucked should be testimony to how "untalented" out "talent" base is....the record, and the eyes, don't lie...as Bill Belichik says, we are what our record says we are.


     






     


    We can obviously use more talent, but you have to factor in development, how much better can sully and ko get? Sully stats this year are compareable to klove 2nd year stats, is he going to take that big leap in year 3 and beyond? Or is he gonna stay put and be what he ALREADY is which is a very good rotational big for a playoff team (think taj gibson, nene type) who can be a starter on some bad teams.


     


    Is ko going to be more dirk or more andre bargnani? This is almost more important than adding talent, is developing the talent you already have, especially on a young team such as this.


     


     I think  sully, ab, ko  are all "good players" fringe starters/ big playoff roational minutes on a playoff team. Thats pretty good for a bunch of guys who are under 23 but what will they become is the big ?.





    I agree with everything you're saying...my opinion and yours are closer than you think...questions abound on the team's young guys and you never know how they'll progress...nothing is for certain...but in the end, every player in the NBA is drafted and the future always looks bright for the shiny new toys...even current stars we'd package for picks and our own players for have been drafted...it's a version of the "chicken or the egg" question

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from gman101019. Show gman101019's posts

    Re: Build through the Draft

    In response to mellymel3's comment:


    In response to gman101019's comment:


     


    In response to mellymel3's comment:


     


     


     


    In response to DaCeltics' comment:


     


     


     


     


     


     


     


    Right now we have a lot of good players. We need to make some great ones out of them through development or trade.


     


     


     


     


     


     


     




    Ahhhhhhhhhhhh...hold that thought for JUSSSTTTT a moment.....we have some players that could play for other teams...we don't have but one or two, MAX,  who could START for another NBA team...I count only Rondo and maybe, MAYBE, Green...we have several guys with particular talents but not with complete games...the entire talent level of the team has to be vastly increased...the fact that we played as hard as possible for nearly every game and still sucked should be testimony to how "untalented" out "talent" base is....the record, and the eyes, don't lie...as Bill Belichik says, we are what our record says we are.


     


     


     






     


     


     


    We can obviously use more talent, but you have to factor in development, how much better can sully and ko get? Sully stats this year are compareable to klove 2nd year stats, is he going to take that big leap in year 3 and beyond? Or is he gonna stay put and be what he ALREADY is which is a very good rotational big for a playoff team (think taj gibson, nene type) who can be a starter on some bad teams.


     


     


     


    Is ko going to be more dirk or more andre bargnani? This is almost more important than adding talent, is developing the talent you already have, especially on a young team such as this.


     


     


     


     I think  sully, ab, ko  are all "good players" fringe starters/ big playoff roational minutes on a playoff team. Thats pretty good for a bunch of guys who are under 23 but what will they become is the big ?.


     





    I agree with everything you're saying...my opinion and yours are closer than you think...questions abound on the team's young guys and you never know how they'll progress...nothing is for certain...but in the end, every player in the NBA is drafted and the future always looks bright for the shiny new toys...even current stars we'd package for picks and our own players for have been drafted...it's a version of the "chicken or the egg" question






    I think you can judge their progression after that third year. At that point most players usually are what they are going to be or at least close to it.


    You can do worse than have a bunch of good solid young players. Its just so hard to get that superstar, thats why I hesitate to trade rondo.


    Fans  who want dante exum or marcus smart as pg, r hoping that they BECOME as good as rondo ALREADY IS and accompolish what rondo has already done. If your draft pick becomes a multi time all star, multi time all nba defender, a player mentioned in the mvp race and nba champion, You would be ECSTATIC with those results. But yet rondo gets nothing but hate.


     


     

     
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  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from susan250. Show susan250's posts

    Re: Build through the Draft

    In response to scubber's comment:


    You mentioned Miami and the Lakers, Miami first had Wade and the Lakers first had Kobe, both of which are not top 3 draft picks.  Well arguably they both first started with building through the draft.  And for the Celtics, we had Pierce.  Without those right moves from the picks, who knows where they and we (Celtics) would have been?




    The main difference is that the Miami players, (Lebron and Bosh), decided long before they signed with Miami that they were going to sign with Miami.  I believe they planned to play together and Miami made sure they had the cap space to make it happen.  

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from scubber. Show scubber's posts

    Re: Build through the Draft

    In response to susan250's comment:


    In response to scubber's comment:


     


    You mentioned Miami and the Lakers, Miami first had Wade and the Lakers first had Kobe, both of which are not top 3 draft picks.  Well arguably they both first started with building through the draft.  And for the Celtics, we had Pierce.  Without those right moves from the picks, who knows where they and we (Celtics) would have been?


     




    The main difference is that the Miami players, (Lebron and Bosh), decided long before they signed with Miami that they were going to sign with Miami.  I believe they planned to play together and Miami made sure they had the cap space to make it happen.  





    Miami is a unique situation but whatever happened it does not detract from the fact that there is a player named Wade there that was a big catalyst for this whole collusion to defect to Miami. I am not sure what the difference is, Wade was still the main draw for the whole chain of events, if Wade was not there, I don't see how it all turned out like that.

     
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