CAN NOT WAIT TO SEE KG VS. GASOL

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Jump-ball-overtime. Show Jump-ball-overtime's posts

    Re: CAN NOT WAIT TO SEE KG VS. GASOL

    I love it when some one makes my point for me.

    Duncan has played Center for most of his career because of his mass. He is a center that likes to be known as a power forward as I said earlier.

    However, if your argument is versatility, then few if any can claim KG's versatility. Besides KG, and maybe Magic, who else can play, and have played positions 1-5. KG has been first team all NBA at small forward and at power forward. Who else has done that?
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from P34. Show P34's posts

    Re: CAN NOT WAIT TO SEE KG VS. GASOL

    In Response to Re: CAN NOT WAIT TO SEE KG VS. GASOL:
    I love it when some one makes my point for me. Duncan has played Center for most of his career because of his mass. He is a center that likes to be known as a power forward as I said earlier. However, if your argument is versatility, then few if any can claim KG's versatility. Besides KG, and maybe Magic, who else can play, and have played positions 1-5. KG has been first team all NBA at small forward and at power forward. Who else has done that?
    Posted by Jump-ball-overtime


    If you want to talk about All-NBA First Team then Tim Duncan has the clear edge, 9-4. 

    Again, all I'm saying is Duncan has a slight edge over KG when it comes down to who's better. However, this season KG is performing better than Duncan. 
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Celtsfan4life. Show Celtsfan4life's posts

    Re: CAN NOT WAIT TO SEE KG VS. GASOL

    And 4 extra years of high level performance, MVPs, and championships gives the edge to Duncan.  They both have versatility, Jump, but Tim's has resulted in more awards and recognition.   We all love KG and especially this year.....but throughout their careers, you just can't argue with Duncan's accomplishments.   We have to give credit where credit is due.   

    I can make an argument for McHale and you can make one for Malone, but most people in the world will tell you that Duncan is the best power forward to play the game.   

    But, its nice to be able to even have a player of KG's quality to argue about.  In any case, I love the guy's competitiveness, skills, and his play!
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Jump-ball-overtime. Show Jump-ball-overtime's posts

    Re: CAN NOT WAIT TO SEE KG VS. GASOL

    Duncan is a great player, however, if The Wolves had drafted Duncan and the Spurs had drafted KG, it is likely that KG's championships, MVPs, and first team all-NBAs would exceed Duncans. I say this after watching the two play head to head throughout their careers.

    Now that KG is on a great team, his stock will continue to pay dividends.

    Again, in NBA resent history, this is not Russ vs. Wilt, has been  Russ on a good team vs. Russ on a bad team.

    With the renewed Spurs team, it will be fun to watch Celtics vs. Spurs, however, Duncan will probably play Shaq and not KG. ...to bad.

    It would be fun to see him play power forward again.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from P34. Show P34's posts

    Re: CAN NOT WAIT TO SEE KG VS. GASOL

    In Response to Re: CAN NOT WAIT TO SEE KG VS. GASOL:
    Duncan is a great player, however, if The Wolves had drafted Duncan and the Spurs had drafted KG, it is likely that KG's championships, MVPs, and first team all-NBAs would exceed Duncans. I say this after watching the two play head to head throughout their careers. Now that KG is on a great team, his stock will continue to pay dividends. Again, in NBA resent history, this is not Russ vs. Wilt, has been  Russ on a good team vs. Russ on a bad team. With the renewed Spurs team, it will be fun to watch Celtics vs. Spurs, however, Duncan will probably play Shaq and not KG. ...to bad. It would be fun to see him play power forward again.
    Posted by Jump-ball-overtime


    All the "ifs" in the world will not change the fact that right now most of the NBA fans agree that Duncan is better than KG.

    What if the Lakers didn't get Gasol in 2008? 

    What if the Celtics got the #1 pick in 2007 and drafted Greg Oden?

    What if KG didn't get injured in 2009?

    What if the Celtics signed Kwame Brown instead of Shaq this summer?

    Get it?
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from P34. Show P34's posts

    Re: CAN NOT WAIT TO SEE KG VS. GASOL

    I'm a die-hard Celtic fan, not a delusional Celtic fan. Call a spade a spade. 

    Duncan - 9-time 1st team All-NBA 
    KG - 4-time 1st team All-NBA

    All the "ifs" in the world will not change that fact. And a head to head battle will not determine who's the better player, you also have to include their performance against the other bigs of the NBA. 
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Jump-ball-overtime. Show Jump-ball-overtime's posts

    Re: CAN NOT WAIT TO SEE KG VS. GASOL

    P34,

    90% of what you say on this board, what I say, and what others say is speculation, and a matter of opinion.

    Popularity of an idea has never been proof of fact or truth.

    The fact is that they are both great players playing for different teams makes it fun to discuss. Head to head play is one area where players on different teams
    can be compared somewhat independently of the quality of the cast of other players. While occasionally Duncan has prevailed, and occasionally the play was a draw, many times KG out performed Duncan on head to head play.

    The rest is all speculation. However, that is what makes it fun.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from P34. Show P34's posts

    Re: CAN NOT WAIT TO SEE KG VS. GASOL

    In Response to Re: CAN NOT WAIT TO SEE KG VS. GASOL:
    P34, 90% of what you say on this board, what I say, and what others say is speculation, and a matter of opinion. Popularity of an idea has never been proof of fact or truth. The fact is that they are both great players playing for different teams makes it fun to discuss. Head to head play is one area where players on different teams can be compared somewhat independently of the quality of the cast of other players. While occasionally Duncan has prevailed, and occasionally the play was a draw, many times KG out performed Duncan on head to head play. The rest is all speculation. However, that is what makes it fun.
    Posted by Jump-ball-overtime


    It's not speculation when clearly Duncan has more rings, more MVP trophies, and more Finals MVP trophies. 

    Unless, of course, if you say that all those who voted Duncan for MVP are all morons. 
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Jump-ball-overtime. Show Jump-ball-overtime's posts

    Re: CAN NOT WAIT TO SEE KG VS. GASOL

    ...sorry Fierce,

    This discussion is starting to repeat is self. These points have been made before.

    When I was a kid, and I was losing an argument to my brother, I would change the argument to try to win. It usually worked, however, it it does not work with me.

    The original discussion about KG vs. Duncan involved drafting circumstances and how things might be different if the two had been drafted by different teams.
    It was a what if statement.

    There is no question that Duncan's teams have won more championships and all that goes with that.

    Its been fun, however, I am in San Francisco on business and I have to run. Catch you later.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from P34. Show P34's posts

    Re: CAN NOT WAIT TO SEE KG VS. GASOL

    1st Team All-NBA means the 5 best players of that season. Being in the 2nd or 3rd team also means you're one of the top 10-15 best players of the season. Since Duncan has more 1st Team selections it clearly gives him an edge over KG when it comes to the who's better argument. 

    The All-NBA Team is an annual National Basketball Association (NBA) honor bestowed on the best players in the league following every NBA season. The voting is conducted by a panel of sportswriters and broadcasters throughout the United States and Canada.[1]

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Gasthoerer. Show Gasthoerer's posts

    Re: CAN NOT WAIT TO SEE KG VS. GASOL

    I`m not telling that KG is a better player than Duncan. In honestly think both are hard to compare. (Would be easier to compare Duncan to K.Malone but I`m not sure who has the edge here).

    Counting the amount of ALL-NBA First Team selections is a good point but not the only one which should be considered.

    Is Steve Nash with 2 MVP awards a better player than Stockton, Kobe or Nowitzki because the latter have (n)one? Is Artest a better defender than Pippen because the latter never earned Defensive Player of the year?
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from PierceIsTheTruth. Show PierceIsTheTruth's posts

    Re: CAN NOT WAIT TO SEE KG VS. GASOL

    KG makes Bosh his woman everytime they play, i mean Pierce does.... well just about everybody does. the guy is as soft as cotton, and overhyped. Amare and Boozer are a different story. Boozer is a tad soft right now but I think Thibs is changing that, I like the KG vs Noah thing also. Amare is just a beast, I enjoy watching him play. I used to like watching KG play Rashard Lewis, but ever since last year in the finals i was like eh.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from P34. Show P34's posts

    Re: CAN NOT WAIT TO SEE KG VS. GASOL

    In Response to Re: CAN NOT WAIT TO SEE KG VS. GASOL:
    I`m not telling that KG is a better player than Duncan. In honestly think both are hard to compare. (Would be easier to compare Duncan to K.Malone but I`m not sure who has the edge here). Counting the amount of ALL-NBA First Team selections is a good point but not the only one which should be considered. Is Steve Nash with 2 MVP awards a better player than Stockton, Kobe or Nowitzki because the latter have (n)one? Is Artest a better defender than Pippen because the latter never earned Defensive Player of the year?
    Posted by Gasthoerer


    1st Team All-NBA is a better indicator than saying that if KG were a Spur and Duncan was a Timberwolf. Or saying that one is better than the other based on head to head play.

    Steve Nash is better than John Stockton. 
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Jump-ball-overtime. Show Jump-ball-overtime's posts

    Re: CAN NOT WAIT TO SEE KG VS. GASOL

    Ha ha,

    Shouting louder and repeating yourself is just that. Try other tactics, they may work.

    I can't wait for Spurs-Celtics, it should be fun. It will also be great to see Lakers-Celtics.

    While I don't think that Tim is on KG's revenge tour, like Gasol, KG will be up for the game just because.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from P34. Show P34's posts

    Re: CAN NOT WAIT TO SEE KG VS. GASOL

    In Response to Re: CAN NOT WAIT TO SEE KG VS. GASOL:
    Ha ha, Shouting louder and repeating yourself is just that. Try other tactics, they may work. I can't wait for Spurs-Celtics, it should be fun. It will also be great to see Lakers-Celtics. While I don't think that Tim is on KG's revenge tour, like Gasol, KG will be up for the game just because.
    Posted by Jump-ball-overtime




    Duncan - 20.9 ppg, 11.5 rpg, and 2.3 bpg career average

    KG - 19.7 ppg, 10.8 rpg, and 1.6 bpg career average

    Even the stats are showing that Duncan has the slight edge.

    Don't worry, this season KG is way better than Duncan.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Jump-ball-overtime. Show Jump-ball-overtime's posts

    Re: CAN NOT WAIT TO SEE KG VS. GASOL

    Maybe..., however, statistics can be made to show different pictures.
    For example: For the ten years that both KG and Duncan were in the league playing against each other, and were expected to be the main scoring threat for their teams, KG's numbers surpass Duncan in most areas. In fact KG is the only player in NBA history to average more than 20 points, 10 rebounds, and 5 assists for six years. His nearest competitor for such all around dominance was Larry Bird who did it five times.

    When KG came to the Celtics, he led by example and played selflessly, something far more important to the team than mere statistics. Thank God for KG.

    So, one has to be careful when viewing statistics. Both KG and Duncan have been in a league of their own at the power forward position. Duncan's "statistics" clearly do not dominate the contest between them. One can only wonder how things would have been different if KG had been drafted by the Spurs, and Duncan had been drafted by the Wolves.

    I can't wait for rematch between them.

                      Garnett  Duncan 
    ptsrebastptsrebast
    95-9610.46.31.8   
    96-9717.08.03.1   
    97-9818.59.64.221.111.92.7
    98-9920.810.44.321.111.42.4
    99-0022.911.85.023.212.43.2
    00-0122.011.45.022.212.23.0
    01-0221.212.15.225.512.73.7
    02-0323.013.46.023.312.93.9
    03-0424.213.95.022.312.43.1
    04-0522.213.55.720.311.12.7
    05-0621.812.74.118.611.03.2
    06-0722.412.84.120.010.63.4
    Total246.4135.953.5217.6118.631.3
    Average20.511.34.521.811.93.1
    10 yr Ave21.912.24.921.811.93.1


    Statistics from basketballreference.com

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Jump-ball-overtime. Show Jump-ball-overtime's posts

    Re: CAN NOT WAIT TO SEE KG VS. GASOL

    Stats were cut off - here is the full sheet-

                      Garnett Duncan
    ptsrebastptsrebast
    95-9610.46.31.8   
    96-9717.08.03.1   
    97-9818.59.64.221.111.92.7
    98-9920.810.44.321.111.42.4
    99-0022.911.85.023.212.43.2
    00-0122.011.45.022.212.23.0
    01-0221.212.15.225.512.73.7
    02-0323.013.46.023.312.93.9
    03-0424.213.95.022.312.43.1
    04-0522.213.55.720.311.12.7
    05-0621.812.74.118.611.03.2
    06-0722.412.84.120.010.63.4
    Total246.4135.953.5217.6118.631.3
    Average20.511.34.521.811.93.1
    10 yr Ave21.912.24.921.811.93.1
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from P34. Show P34's posts

    Re: CAN NOT WAIT TO SEE KG VS. GASOL

    Don't forget to mention that Duncan also leads by example and also plays selflessly. 

    The fact remains, we will never know what would have happened if the Spurs got KG and the Wolves got Duncan.

    Let's look at their playoff stats.

    Career Playoff Averages

    KG - 20 ppg, 11.2 rpg, and 1.4 bpg
    Duncan - 23.0 ppg 12.4 rpg, and 2.3 bpg

    How about that! Duncan has more 1st Team All-NBA selections, better regular season stats, and even better playoff stats. Hmm...
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from NoraG1. Show NoraG1's posts

    Re: CAN NOT WAIT TO SEE KG VS. GASOL

    In Response to Re: CAN NOT WAIT TO SEE KG VS. GASOL:
    Don't forget to mention that Duncan also leads by example and also plays selflessly.  The fact remains, we will never know what would have happened if the Spurs got KG and the Wolves got Duncan. Let's look at their playoff stats. Career Playoff Averages KG - 20 ppg, 11.2 rpg, and 1.4 bpg Duncan - 23.0 ppg 12.4 rpg, and 2.3 bpg How about that! Duncan has more 1st Team All-NBA selections, better regular season stats, and even better playoff stats. Hmm...
    Posted by P34



    Must have been nice though for Duncan to have ALOPT more help then KG did in his prime hmmm???

    I mean the only decent PG KG had before Rondo was Sam Cassell. KG had to be EVERYTHING for his team. Not that Duncan did not do alot but KG had little to no help for most of his career in Minnesota.

    Duncan had David Robinson as a mentor when he came to the Spurs. KG had Sam Mitchell as a mentor. Just as an example


     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from LightSaber. Show LightSaber's posts

    Re: CAN NOT WAIT TO SEE KG VS. GASOL

    In Response to Re: CAN NOT WAIT TO SEE KG VS. GASOL:
    In Response to Re: CAN NOT WAIT TO SEE KG VS. GASOL : Must have been nice though for Duncan to have ALOPT more help then KG did in his prime hmmm??? I mean the only decent PG KG had before Rondo was Sam Cassell. KG had to be EVERYTHING for his team. Not that Duncan did not do alot but KG had little to no help for most of his career in Minnesota. Duncan had David Robinson as a mentor when he came to the Spurs. KG had Sam Mitchell as a mentor. Just as an example
    Posted by NoraG1


    What makes Duncan legit is he won 2 titles even without David Robinson. 

    KG is our man, the heart of the Celtics. But it is also true that he needed 2 future hall of famers, Paul Pierce and Ray Allen, to help him win a title. Duncan on the other hand had 2 great players, Tony Parker and Manu Ginobili, to help him win multiple titles. Right now I'm not sure if both Parker and Ginobili will be hall of famers. That's the difference right there, even with more weight put on Duncan's shoulder he continues to win. 

    Kobe didn't win without Shaq and Pau. Wade didn't win without Shaq. Even Lebron still has no ring. But Duncan won with or without David Robinson. He also won in the 1990s, with players like Avery Johnson and Sean Elliott, and in the 2k era with Tony Parker and Manu Ginobili.  
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Jump-ball-overtime. Show Jump-ball-overtime's posts

    Re: CAN NOT WAIT TO SEE KG VS. GASOL

    As most Celtic fans know, when you win, more accolades come your way. KGs supporting cast was no where near the cast that surrounded Duncan. So the number of first team NBAs have usually followed team success as much as anything. If Duncan was so dominant, than how could KG ever be first team all NBA at power forward as he was.

    Your point about Tim being a team player is half true. Yes the Spurs do come first, however Duncan has always been the focus of the offense until this year.

    When KG came to Boston, he made sure that the other Boston stars got their's, and focused on defense.

    A much more compelling case is made comparing Duncan vs. KG head to head, and comparing the years when they competed against each other as their team's leader. KG usually out performed Duncan head to head, not always, but usually.

    Furthermore, while comparing offensive stats for the years that they competed against each other is only half of the argument. KG has always been a superior defender to Duncan.

    ... We will never know?

    Well that may be true; however, the head to head match ups were worth the price of admission.

    Both KG and Duncan are now injury free and both are playing on great teams. While neither player is the focus of the offense anymore, the battle continues.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from P34. Show P34's posts

    Re: CAN NOT WAIT TO SEE KG VS. GASOL

    In Response to Re: CAN NOT WAIT TO SEE KG VS. GASOL:
    As most Celtic fans know, when you win, more accolades come your way. KGs supporting cast was no where near the cast that surrounded Duncan. So the number of first team NBAs have usually followed team success as much as anything. If Duncan was so dominant, than how could KG ever be first team all NBA at power forward as he was. Your point about Tim being a team player is half true. Yes the Spurs do come first, however Duncan has always been the focus of the offense until this year. When KG came to Boston, he made sure that the other Boston stars got their's, and focused on defense. A much more compelling case is made comparing Duncan vs. KG head to head, and comparing the years when they competed against each other as their team's leader. KG usually out performed Duncan head to head, not always, but usually. Furthermore, while comparing offensive stats for the years that they competed against each other is only half of the argument. KG has always been a superior defender to Duncan. ... We will never know? Well that may be true; however, the head to head match ups were worth the price of admission. Both KG and Duncan are now injury free and both are playing on great teams. While neither player is the focus of the offense anymore, the battle continues.
    Posted by Jump-ball-overtime


    If you don't want to base it on accolades then base it on production. Duncan has better career stats than KG in the regular season and in the playoffs. 

    On defense both Duncan and KG made 1st Team All-Defense 8 times. But Duncan has been on the 2nd Team All-Defense more times than KG, Duncan 5 times while KG only 2 times. Again, Duncan has a slight advantage.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Jump-ball-overtime. Show Jump-ball-overtime's posts

    Re: CAN NOT WAIT TO SEE KG VS. GASOL

    Ha ha,

    As I have said, I am comparing production, the production that matters. Stats that really mean something. Not stats that tell half the truth.

    By the way, since you are inclined to quote statics from years that are difficult to compare for obvious reasons, you did forget KG's defensive player of the year award with a great team, the Celtics. (Accolades for great teams again.)

    Duncan's reputation for defense is for shot blocking, not pure defense. Shot blocking is only part of defense, and it is statistics that many voters look at. 

    If Duncan was as dominant and as great as you say, how is it possible that KG ever won a league MVP at power forward, was 1st team all NBA at Power forward, or defensive player of the year at power forward. Maybe Duncan went to sleep for several years.

    To really appreciate the differences and similarities between the two, you had to see them play against each other on a regular basis. Statistics, and awards are the result of many factors. Both are great great players.


    ...and except for 2004, 2008 and 2010, Duncan has played on far superior teams.  








     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from P34. Show P34's posts

    Re: CAN NOT WAIT TO SEE KG VS. GASOL

    In Response to Re: CAN NOT WAIT TO SEE KG VS. GASOL:
    Ha ha, As I have said, I am comparing production, the production that matters. Stats that really mean something. Not stats that tell half the truth. By the way, since you are inclined to quote statics from years that are difficult to compare for obvious reasons, you did forget KG's defensive player of the year award with a great team, the Celtics. (Accolades for great teams again.) Duncan's reputation for defense is for shot blocking, not pure defense. Shot blocking is only part of defense, and it is statistics that many voters look at.  If Duncan was as dominant and as great as you say, how is it possible that KG ever won a league MVP at power forward, was 1st team all NBA at Power forward, or defensive player of the year at power forward. Maybe Duncan went to sleep for several years. To really appreciate the differences and similarities between the two, you had to see them play against each other on a regular basis. Statistics, and awards are the result of many factors. Both are great great players. ...and except for 2004, 2008 and 2010, Duncan has played on far superior teams.  
    Posted by Jump-ball-overtime


    What is "production that matters"? 

    All you're saying is based on your opinion. The stats don't lie. 

    Did KG ever beat a Laker team with Shaq on it? KG can't guard the likes of Shaq, Pat Ewing, Hakeem, Duncan, and David Robinson. KG is a SF in a PF's body while Duncan is a Center playing PF. And Duncan can defend Shaq, Pat Ewing, and Hakeem. 

    Duncan has better stats, regular season and playoffs, and more accolades than KG. Even if KG is the better overall defender it doesn't automatically make him better than Duncan. KG is not a great low post scorer while Duncan is unstoppable in the paint. The argument can go on forever. But can't deny the fact that Duncan has won more and has better numbers than KG.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from P34. Show P34's posts

    Re: CAN NOT WAIT TO SEE KG VS. GASOL

    Tim Duncan won in 2 different decades, 1990s and 2k. KG only won when he had 2 future hall of famers surrounding him. Don't tell me that Tony Parker and Manu Ginobili are already considered hall of famers. It's a fact that Duncan won with different sets of players around him. What more production do you want?

    4 rings is not good enough? Paul Pierce himself said it, if they don't get another ring they're nothing special. Don't sell Tim Duncan short. Just because KG's our man it doesn't mean that he's already the best just because he's a Celtic.
     
Sections
Shortcuts

Share