CAN NOT WAIT TO SEE KG VS. GASOL

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    Re: CAN NOT WAIT TO SEE KG VS. GASOL

    In Response to Re: CAN NOT WAIT TO SEE KG VS. GASOL:
    [QUOTE]Ha ha, As I have said, I am comparing production, the production that matters. Stats that really mean something. Not stats that tell half the truth. By the way, since you are inclined to quote statics from years that are difficult to compare for obvious reasons, you did forget KG's defensive player of the year award with a great team, the Celtics. (Accolades for great teams again.) Duncan's reputation for defense is for shot blocking, not pure defense. Shot blocking is only part of defense, and it is statistics that many voters look at.  If Duncan was as dominant and as great as you say, how is it possible that KG ever won a league MVP at power forward, was 1st team all NBA at Power forward, or defensive player of the year at power forward. Maybe Duncan went to sleep for several years. To really appreciate the differences and similarities between the two, you had to see them play against each other on a regular basis. Statistics, and awards are the result of many factors. Both are great great players. ...and except for 2004, 2008 and 2010, Duncan has played on far superior teams.  
    Posted by Jump-ball-overtime[/QUOTE]

    Teams draft players that give them the best chance of winning a championship. Besides 4 championships, back to back season MVPs, and 2 Finals MVP, what makes Tim Duncan better than KG is he's a true big man, capable of defending Centers and Power Forwards. KG can guard Dirk or Pau but he's too light to bang with the big boys. You don't see the Celtics putting KG on Dwight Howard.

    On offense you rarely see teams double team KG. KG is not a great post player, he prefers to shoot jumpers. Duncan on the other hand was always double teamed down low when he was younger. From power moves, to jump hooks, to his trademark bank shots, Tim Duncan had all the moves of a dominant big man. 

    You said you base your comparison on production that matters. That statement of yours is very subjective. You are entitled to your own opinion, but a lot of people are saying that Tim Duncan is the best PF to play the game. Think about that.
     
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    Re: CAN NOT WAIT TO SEE KG VS. GASOL

    Jump,

    I saw Tim and KG head to head back in the 90s and early 2000s. Both were great players with different styles. If Duncan wanted to score inside he will really score. He also gets more putbacks because he plays closer to the rim. That's one aspect of the game where KG does not excel, he relies too much on his fall-away jumpers. When he misses it's one and done, he's too far out for an offensive rebound. The good thing is, this season KG is trying to have more of an inside game.
     
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    Re: CAN NOT WAIT TO SEE KG VS. GASOL

    P34, all statistics lie if they are not taken in the correct context.

    Yes, in 2004, KG's Wolves swept the Lakers with Shaq in the regular season. The Wolves were the number one seed in the NBA. They played with a center by the name of Erivin Johnson (no not Magic), a real stiff.

    The two teams met again in the western conference finals, and were playing very well until both Wolves point guards became injured and could not play. So in final game, KG had to play point guard.

    KG could play Duncan, extremely well, and any center that was not allowed to break the rules to score with impunity. He could also guard, Lebron, Carter, Stotlemeir, Jordan, Carmelo Anthony, and Mcgrady, something that Duncan could not do. 

    When one compares both players statistics, in the ten years that both played against each other, as their team's number one scoring option, KG's stats are better. No other player in NBA history has averaged more than 20 points, 10 rebounds, and 5 assists for six years of their career. Only Larry Bird did it for 5 years. Using the years with the Celtics for statistical comparison is suspect because KG's situation changed as did his role, and this year, Duncan's role changed. Both are great players, however, if KG had been with a better team like the Celtics or the Spurs, his image would be at least on par with Duncan, if not above him. That is why statistics lie.
     
    By the way, KG was the first high school player taken in the draft in a very long time. Because he was so good, it started the trend again. However, when KG was drafted, taking a high school player was considered a big risk.  It is too bad that so many great players are forced to play for organizations like the Wolves, and the Clippers. I am sure that KG feels greatful for the chance to play for the Celtics. 
     
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    Re: CAN NOT WAIT TO SEE KG VS. GASOL

    In Response to Re: CAN NOT WAIT TO SEE KG VS. GASOL:
    [QUOTE]P34, all statistics lie if they are not taken in the correct context. Yes, in 2004, KG's Wolves swept the Lakers with Shaq in the regular season. The Wolves were the number one seed in the NBA. They played with a center by the name of Erivin Johnson (no not Magic), a real stiff. The two teams met again in the western conference finals, and were playing very well until both Wolves point guards became injured and could not play. So in final game, KG had to play point guard. KG could play Duncan, extremely well, and any center that was not allowed to break the rules to score with impunity. He could also guard, Lebron, Carter, Stotlemeir, Jordan, Carmelo Anthony, and Mcgrady, something that Duncan could not do.  When one compares both players statistics, in the ten years that both played against each other, as their team's number one scoring option, KG's stats are better. No other player in NBA history has averaged more than 20 points, 10 rebounds, and 5 assists for six years of their career. Only Larry Bird did it for 5 years. Using the years with the Celtics for statistical comparison is suspect because KG's situation changed as did his role, and this year, Duncan's role changed. Both are great players, however, if KG had been with a better team like the Celtics or the Spurs, his image would be at least on par with Duncan, if not above him. That is why statistics lie.   By the way, KG was the first high school player taken in the draft in a very long time. Because he was so good, it started the trend again. However, when KG was drafted, taking a high school player was considered a big risk.  It is too bad that so many great players are forced to play for organizations like the Wolves, and the Clippers. I am sure that KG feels greatful for the chance to play for the Celtics. 
    Posted by Jump-ball-overtime[/QUOTE]

    The problem with your argument is you base on it what favors KG. I'm not only talking about 2004. What I'm saying is they should be judged according to what they did their whole careers. 

    While it's true that KG can guard some of the quicker players and Duncan can't. It's also true that KG can't guard the Shaq of the Lakers and Dwight Howard of the Magic. Even against Zach Randolph KG struggles to contain him. The difference is Duncan is a great inside the paint big man while KG is a great PF with speed and quickness. 

    It's also not fair to manipulate the stats. Is it Duncan's fault that he went to college and KG didn't?

    Making excuses like KG had a stiff for a Center in Ervin Johnson is not a valid excuse. Duncan won even without David Robinson. After Robinson retired the Spurs won with Nazr Mohammed in 2005 and Fabricio Oberto in 2007. 

    Again, KG is a PF with speed and quickness. Duncan is old school dominant inside the paint big man, can play and defend both Centers and PFs. That's Duncan's edge right there, no matter who's the other big man playing opposite Duncan the interior defense and the scoring down low will remain a constant.

    I hope you realize that back in 2003, 2005, and 2007 if you didn't double Duncan down low it's automatic 2 points. That's one aspect of the game where KG is lacking, he doesn't have the bulk to overpower guys inside the paint.





     

     
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    Re: CAN NOT WAIT TO SEE KG VS. GASOL

    In Response to Re: CAN NOT WAIT TO SEE KG VS. GASOL:
    [QUOTE]P34, all statistics lie if they are not taken in the correct context. Yes, in 2004, KG's Wolves swept the Lakers with Shaq in the regular season. The Wolves were the number one seed in the NBA. They played with a center by the name of Erivin Johnson (no not Magic), a real stiff. The two teams met again in the western conference finals, and were playing very well until both Wolves point guards became injured and could not play. So in final game, KG had to play point guard. KG could play Duncan, extremely well, and any center that was not allowed to break the rules to score with impunity. He could also guard, Lebron, Carter, Stotlemeir, Jordan, Carmelo Anthony, and Mcgrady, something that Duncan could not do.  When one compares both players statistics, in the ten years that both played against each other, as their team's number one scoring option, KG's stats are better. No other player in NBA history has averaged more than 20 points, 10 rebounds, and 5 assists for six years of their career. Only Larry Bird did it for 5 years. Using the years with the Celtics for statistical comparison is suspect because KG's situation changed as did his role, and this year, Duncan's role changed. Both are great players, however, if KG had been with a better team like the Celtics or the Spurs, his image would be at least on par with Duncan, if not above him. That is why statistics lie.   By the way, KG was the first high school player taken in the draft in a very long time. Because he was so good, it started the trend again. However, when KG was drafted, taking a high school player was considered a big risk.  It is too bad that so many great players are forced to play for organizations like the Wolves, and the Clippers. I am sure that KG feels greatful for the chance to play for the Celtics. 
    Posted by Jump-ball-overtime[/QUOTE]

    Don't forget to mention that when Larry Bird was getting 20-10-5 the Celtics ended up with 3 championships. 

    When KG was getting 20-10-5 in Minny he didn't even make the Finals, not even once. 

    That Game 7 of the 2005 Finals was a perfect example of how dominant Tim Duncan really is. Timmy literally took Sheed and Big Ben out of the game. By the start of the 4th qtr. both Sheed and Big Ben were sitting on the bench because of foul trouble. 
     
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    Re: CAN NOT WAIT TO SEE KG VS. GASOL

    Interesting interpretation.

    No, I am comparing the years that make the most sense from a statistical point of view. The years when they competed against each other as their team's number one scoring option. With different circumstances come different results. KG as a leader, as well as great player, made sure that the other stars got what they wanted, and he filled in the gaps doing what ever was needed.  ... and what was needed was for Pierce to be the leading scorer and clutch scorer, and for Allen to be the a clutch scorer. The result, banner #17.

    I do hope the Spurs play the Celtics in the finals. It would be a great match.

    Rod:

    Bird is my all time favorite player. I consider him the best to ever play the game.
    It is an honor for KG to even be mentioned in the same sentence as the Legend.

    Yes, I know, Russell won more championships, and I did see him play, however, Bird is my selection for best ever for several reasons.


     
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    Re: CAN NOT WAIT TO SEE KG VS. GASOL

    In Response to Re: CAN NOT WAIT TO SEE KG VS. GASOL:
    [QUOTE]Interesting interpretation. No, I am comparing the years that make the most sense from a statistical point of view. The years when they competed against each other as their team's number one scoring option. With different circumstances come different results. KG as a leader, as well as great player, made sure that the other stars got what they wanted, and he filled in the gaps doing what ever was needed.  ... and what was needed was for Pierce to be the leading scorer and clutch scorer, and for Allen to be the a clutch scorer. The result, banner #17. I do hope the Spurs play the Celtics in the finals. It would be a great match. Rod: Bird is my all time favorite player. I consider him the best to ever play the game. It is an honor for KG to even be mentioned in the same sentence as the Legend. Yes, I know, Russell won more championships, and I did see him play, however, Bird is my selection for best ever for several reasons.
    Posted by Jump-ball-overtime[/QUOTE]

    That's not a fair comparison. You're picking the stats you want and the timeline you want. You should judge both players based on what they did their entire careers, not just the part where you think it's significant for you. 

    There is no way that KG is better in the low post than Tim Duncan. The offensive rebounding stats will tell us that Duncan gives his team more 2nd chance points because he plays closer to the basket. KG on the other hand is a great outside shooter for a big man. The problem is if he misses there is very little chance of him getting that rebound because he's far away from the basket. 

     

     
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    Re: CAN NOT WAIT TO SEE KG VS. GASOL

    Like mentioned before, it is really difficult to compare Duncan and Garnett.
    If you pick all Top Power Forwards ever played the game, these are are 2 which have nothing in common. Duncan is a 4-5 Player with amazing Post Moves and game to the league at age 22(?) and was therefore NBA ready.
    Garnett is a tall Small Forward w/ fantastic perimeter defense qualities.
    IMO it is easier to compare Garnett to a player like Pippen than to Duncan.

    However, Garnett came to the league directly from High School was of course much younger than Duncan and not on the same level. I think it is more than fair to compare both starting from the same age (22).
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from P34. Show P34's posts

    Re: CAN NOT WAIT TO SEE KG VS. GASOL

    In Response to Re: CAN NOT WAIT TO SEE KG VS. GASOL:
    [QUOTE]Like mentioned before, it is really difficult to compare Duncan and Garnett. If you pick all Top Power Forwards ever played the game, these are are 2 which have nothing in common. Duncan is a 4-5 Player with amazing Post Moves and game to the league at age 22(?) and was therefore NBA ready. Garnett is a tall Small Forward w/ fantastic perimeter defense qualities. IMO it is easier to compare Garnett to a player like Pippen than to Duncan. However, Garnett came to the league directly from High School was of course much younger than Duncan and not on the same level. I think it is more than fair to compare both starting from the same age (22).
    Posted by Gasthoerer[/QUOTE]

    The difference is Duncan is a 4-5 like you said. KG is only a 4. Not once in KG's career has he started at SF for an entire season. So he's not like Pippen either.

    This season KG is better than Duncan, there's no doubt in my mind about that. But when you look at their careers, 4 rings, 2 season MVPs, and 2 Finals MVP is absolutely better than 1 ring, 1 season MVP, and 1 Defensive Player of the Year award. 

    Why did the Rockets pick Olajuwon over Michael Jordan in 1984? How come the Orlando Magic selected Shaq instead of Alonzo Mourning? And why did the Blazers choose Greg Oden instead of Kevin Durant?

    A dominant big man is hard to find. According to Draft experts a dominant big man like Duncan and Shaq only come once every decade. Think about that.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Celtsfan4life. Show Celtsfan4life's posts

    Re: CAN NOT WAIT TO SEE KG VS. GASOL

    I'm with P34.   Gentlemen, on one side you have actually history and facts (Duncan's MVP's, championships, playoff stats, full career stats - especially early career stats).  On the other hand, you have the "speculation" of what might have happened IF KG were on the Spurs and Duncan was on the Wolves.  Maybe the speculations are right but we'll never really KNOW.  All we KNOW is what the actual facts say which is that over their careers, especially when you look at the impact of the first 4 or so years to their totals, Duncan is the more accomplished and better player.

    Duncan is in the argument for all time greatest power forward to ever play the game (I think he is and some say Malone or Barkley or McHale).  However, KG is not in that argument.  

    Now, this year - I take KG over Duncan any night.  Period.  KG is MVP material this year.  The man is playing possessed.  

    But, over their careers, you must give the edge to Duncan.  Speculation of who MIGHT have done better with equal supporting casts is only that.....speculation.
     
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    Re: CAN NOT WAIT TO SEE KG VS. GASOL

    P34, and Celts fan-

    KG was first team all NBA at small forward in 2003, the year before he was first team all NBA at Power forward and league MVP. He may also be the only player to play positions one through five in NBA history. I know Magic played one and five.

    I thought that this discussion was about the power forward position not the center position, and whether or not KG would be considered on Duncan's level if he had been with the Spurs, the Celtics or another good team instead of being with the small market Wolves. Are we changing the topic again?

    Both Duncan and KG are the same age, 34 years old. Analyse your statement about liking KG better this year than Duncan. Why is that? Could it be that KG is on a great team now? Could it be that Duncan's roll has changed for the Spurs?
    Duncan is still Duncan if you have seen him play this year.

    In 2008, KG was third or fourth in the MVP voting because he was on a great team and Duncan was not. Duncan was still Duncan in 2008. What changed?

    You seem to make my point for me, that if KG had been on a great team, as he is now, he would be considered on the same level or higher than Duncan.

    KG as Center-

    KG has played the five many times in his career, especially when his team's center goes down. Did you see him guard Yao Ming in 2008? He completely shut Ming down in the fourth quarter when Perk was in foul trouble and having difficulty guarding him. He usually wins or draws against Duncan when they play each other, and has done so through out his career. He guards athletic Centers better than Duncan such as Stotlemeir. In 2008 when the Suns played the Celtics, the game was called very closely and so KG had to limit his defense in the first half. Stotlemeir started trash talking. Then the third quarter came, an KG absolutely shut him down. Duncan has real problems with Stotlemeir.

    KG has also guarded Shaq and Howard effectively when the game is called fairly. and they can not guard him effectively. In Shaq's hayday, Shaq was allowed to muscle players out of the way and use his strength to go over the top of other players. While he is not allowed to do that today, it is to ever lasting shame of the NBA that he was allowed to play that way. The NBA also allows Howard to cheat. Howard is allowed to drive his shoulder into the chest of the opposing player to drive him back closer to the rim. He is also allowed to use his elbows to clear space. Do you remember Baby fouling Howard with his chin as Howard knocked him out with his elbows? Howard is also allowed to hand check when playing Garnett. Do you remember the foul on Garnett as he knocked away Howards hand repeatedly while he was guarding Garnett? I guess the NBA relies on fans not knowing the rules.

    In any case, KG has guarded all Centers effectively, and few can guard him effectively. Duncan may be the only Center that can guard him, but KG usually wins.

    Both of you have said that you love KG over Duncan this year. Why? KG is still KG and Duncan is still Duncan. The offense of the Spurs has changed and has become more diversified, but after watching Duncan play in a few games, he is still the same player. Is the difference that KG is playing on a great team for a change? In addition, since Robinson retired, Duncan has been playing Center and calling himself a power forward. Food for thought.
     
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    Re: CAN NOT WAIT TO SEE KG VS. GASOL

    In Response to Re: CAN NOT WAIT TO SEE KG VS. GASOL:
    [QUOTE]P34, and Celts fan- KG was first team all NBA at small forward in 2003, the year before he was first team all NBA at Power forward and league MVP. He may also be the only player to play positions one through five in NBA history. I know Magic played one and five. I thought that this discussion was about the power forward position not the center position, and whether or not KG would be considered on Duncan's level if he had been with the Spurs, the Celtics or another good team instead of being with the small market Wolves. Are we changing the topic again? Both Duncan and KG are the same age, 34 years old. Analyse your statement about liking KG better this year than Duncan. Why is that? Could it be that KG is on a great team now? Could it be that Duncan's roll has changed for the Spurs? Duncan is still Duncan if you have seen him play this year. In 2008, KG was third or fourth in the MVP voting because he was on a great team and Duncan was not. Duncan was still Duncan in 2008. What changed? You seem to make my point for me, that if KG had been on a great team, as he is now, he would be considered on the same level or higher than Duncan. KG as Center- KG has played the five many times in his career, especially when his team's center goes down. Did you see him guard Yao Ming in 2008? He completely shut Ming down in the fourth quarter when Perk was in foul trouble and having difficulty guarding him. He usually wins or draws against Duncan when they play each other, and has done so through out his career. He guards athletic Centers better than Duncan such as Stotlemeir. In 2008 when the Suns played the Celtics, the game was called very closely and so KG had to limit his defense in the first half. Stotlemeir started trash talking. Then the third quarter came, an KG absolutely shut him down. Duncan has real problems with Stotlemeir. KG has also guarded Shaq and Howard effectively when the game is called fairly. and they can not guard him effectively. In Shaq's hayday, Shaq was allowed to muscle players out of the way and use his strength to go over the top of other players. While he is not allowed to do that today, it is to ever lasting shame of the NBA that he was allowed to play that way. The NBA also allows Howard to cheat. Howard is allowed to drive his shoulder into the chest of the opposing player to drive him back closer to the rim. He is also allowed to use his elbows to clear space. Do you remember Baby fouling Howard with his chin as Howard knocked him out with his elbows? Howard is also allowed to hand check when playing Garnett. Do you remember the foul on Garnett as he knocked away Howards hand repeatedly while he was guarding Garnett? I guess the NBA relies on fans not knowing the rules. In any case, KG has guarded all Centers effectively, and few can guard him effectively. Duncan may be the only Center that can guard him, but KG usually wins. Both of you have said that you love KG over Duncan this year. Why? KG is still KG and Duncan is still Duncan. The offense of the Spurs has changed and has become more diversified, but after watching Duncan play in a few games, he is still the same player. Is the difference that KG is playing on a great team for a change? In addition, since Robinson retired, Duncan has been playing Center and calling himself a power forward. Food for thought.
    Posted by Jump-ball-overtime[/QUOTE]

    You are wrong about All-NBA teams having SFs or PFs, it's just F, not SF or PF. Likewise with the Guards, there are no PGs or SGs, just G.

    Usually any Forward can play Center if needed. Just like Big Baby plays Center when Shaq is out. The point is KG will not be able to effectively defend a guy like Dwight Howard. KG is just not a Center.

    Is it Duncan's fault that he's both a great Center and a PF?

    Saying that KG can play PG or SG is just ridiculous. Never have I seen KG play any other position other than PF. In some games maybe, but never for an entire season or in a playoff series. And Darrick Martin was the PG when Cassell went down in 2004 against the Lakers.

    Stop making excuses. You don't have the numbers, the accolades, and the rings to prove that KG is better. Basically your argument is solely based on your own opinion.


     
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    Re: CAN NOT WAIT TO SEE KG VS. GASOL

    Jump,

    No one is saying that KG is not on the same level with Duncan. All I'm saying, and the other fans here, is Duncan just has a slight edge because he's more dominant inside the paint. 

    A perfect example is Rasho Nesterovic. Both Duncan and KG played with Nesterovic. From 1998-2003 he was with KG in Minny. The following season, 2003-04, he became the Spurs' starting Center. Then in 2005 Nesterovic got a ring when the Spurs beat the Pistons in the 2005 Finals.

    See the difference? 
     
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    Re: CAN NOT WAIT TO SEE KG VS. GASOL

    Saying that KG can't defend Dwight Howard because the NBA allows Dwight Howard to cheat is a stupid thing to say. 

    You say KG usually wins. Where is your proof? Statistically Duncan is better, in the regular season and in the playoffs. 

    Just because you think KG is like Bird or Magic it doesn't mean that KG is Bird or Magic. When Bird was getting 20 ppg, 10 rpg, and 5 apg it resulted in 3 championships. How many championships did KG win when he was getting 20 ppg, 10 rpg, and 5 apg in Minnesota?


     
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    Re: CAN NOT WAIT TO SEE KG VS. GASOL

    KG and Duncan were starters in the 2003 All star game. Duncan at Power forward and KG at Small forward. He was also the All star game MVP that year at small forward. Before 2004 he played mostly small forward but he filled in at various positions as needed. Since both Duncan and KG were first team all NBA at forward, I guess that means that one of them was a small forward?

    KG played the two guard in that same 2003 all-star game with Yao at Center, Shaq at PF, Duncan at SF and KG at the two guard. Plus, he has guarded many two guards including Kobe, and Jordan. Just because you have not seen it, does not make it not so.

    KG played point guard in the 2004 Western conference finals. Look it up.

     
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    Re: CAN NOT WAIT TO SEE KG VS. GASOL

    In Response to Re: CAN NOT WAIT TO SEE KG VS. GASOL:
    [QUOTE]KG and Duncan were starters in the 2003 All star game. Duncan at Power forward and KG at Small forward. He was also the All star game MVP that year at small forward. Before 2004 he played mostly small forward but he filled in at various positions as needed. Since both Duncan and KG were first team all NBA at forward, I guess that means that one of them was a small forward? KG played the two guard in that same 2003 all-star game with Yao at Center, Shaq at PF, Duncan at SF and KG at the two guard. Plus, he has guarded many two guards including Kobe, and Jordan. Just because you have not seen it, does not make it not so. KG played point guard in the 2004 Western conference finals. Look it up.
    Posted by TeamUmbutu[/QUOTE]

    SF at an All-Star game? Really?

    Are you saying that you think KG is better than Tim Duncan because KG is a better performer than Duncan in All-Star games?

    I looked it up, KG never started at PG for the Wolves in 2004. Where's your proof that KG started at PG in 2004?
     
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    Re: CAN NOT WAIT TO SEE KG VS. GASOL

    In Response to Re: CAN NOT WAIT TO SEE KG VS. GASOL:
    [QUOTE]KG and Duncan were starters in the 2003 All star game. Duncan at Power forward and KG at Small forward. He was also the All star game MVP that year at small forward. Before 2004 he played mostly small forward but he filled in at various positions as needed. Since both Duncan and KG were first team all NBA at forward, I guess that means that one of them was a small forward? KG played the two guard in that same 2003 all-star game with Yao at Center, Shaq at PF, Duncan at SF and KG at the two guard. Plus, he has guarded many two guards including Kobe, and Jordan. Just because you have not seen it, does not make it not so. KG played point guard in the 2004 Western conference finals. Look it up.
    Posted by TeamUmbutu[/QUOTE]

    Maybe that's why the Celtics lost to the Lakers in Game 7, KG was playing like a SF. There's no excuse for getting 0 offensive rebounds. Unless you're a SF who's playing outside the paint and shooting outside jumpers all the time.


     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Jump-ball-overtime. Show Jump-ball-overtime's posts

    Re: CAN NOT WAIT TO SEE KG VS. GASOL

    I guess you finally had to do it P34,

    ...ridiculous..., stupid..., you must be running out of things to say so you resort to name calling.

    You take half of a statement and try to make points. Rather than respond to important points of an argument, you pick side issues. 

    I guess if it was important enough I could spend my time compiling all of the statistics of every game that KG played against Duncan and show the result. I could spend hours doing it, but it would never be enough, because there will always be something else as far as your concerned.  I saw the games. I am sorry that you did not. Since this is a side issue, I will not waste my time.

    I did not say that KG could play every position. I said that he has played every position. and that he has been effective guarding all five positions. There is a difference. He did play point guard in the Western Conference finals when Sam Cassel was injured and the second string point guard, Troy Hudson,  had a sprained ankle. I saw it, it is too bad that you did not. It is common knowledge for those that followed KG's early career. Opinion has nothing to do with it.

    In 2003 he absolutely destroyed Vince Carter at small forward in the All-Star game, and he did win the MVP of the game at small forward.  During that same game, as stated above by someone else, he also played the two guard. Opinion has nothing to do with it.

    While Duncan may be a better player with his back to the basket, their field goal percentages have usually been within a few hundredths of a percent of one another. On the other hand, KG's unique ability to defend many types of players helps make the Celtic defense the force that it is. The opinion of many.

    KG at center -

    KG can play center. At 7'1" and 250 lbs, he can play center better than most centers. Was Bill Russell not a true Center at 6'9" and 215 lbs? How about Dave Cowens at 6'9" and 230 lbs. who shot from distance?

    Howard is allowed do to things that no other Center in the NBA is allowed to do. If the rules were the same for him as they are for everyone else, many centers and forwards could guard him easily. To say that is stupid is like saying professional wrestling is legit.

    Since you failed to respond to the most important argument related to KG in 2008 and this year, I guess you were hoping that it would go away. ... sorry... 
     
    As I have stated KG and Duncan are both great players. They do have somewhat different skills and talents that allow each to excel in their own way.
    The fact that KG might have been considered at  Duncan's level or maybe even above his level if he had been on a great team, is best shown by the results of 2004, 2008 and again this year. You your self said that you like KG better than Duncan this year. In 2008 it was KG that was the top vote getter for the all-star game not Duncan. In 2008, it was KG that came close to winning the league MVP again, not Duncan. Duncan did not take a vacation, the Celtics were just the better team. Therefore, if KG had the chance to be on a great team from the beginning of his career like the Celtics, as was true of Duncan, there is a good chance that they would have been considered at a similar level.


     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from P34. Show P34's posts

    Re: CAN NOT WAIT TO SEE KG VS. GASOL

    In Response to Re: CAN NOT WAIT TO SEE KG VS. GASOL:
    [QUOTE]I guess you finally had to do it P34, ...ridiculous..., stupid..., you must be running out of things to say so you resort to name calling. You take half of a statement and try to make points. Rather than respond to important points of an argument, you pick side issues.  I guess if it was important enough I could spend my time compiling all of the statistics of every game that KG played against Duncan and show the result. I could spend hours doing it, but it would never be enough, because there will always be something else as far as your concerned.  I saw the games. I am sorry that you did not. Since this is a side issue, I will not waste my time. I did not say that KG could play every position. I said that he has played every position. and that he has been effective guarding all five positions. There is a difference. He did play point guard in the Western Conference finals when Sam Cassel was injured and the second string point guard, Troy Hudson,  had a sprained ankle. I saw it, it is too bad that you did not. It is common knowledge for those that followed KG's early career. Opinion has nothing to do with it. In 2003 he absolutely destroyed Vince Carter at small forward in the All-Star game, and he did win the MVP of the game at small forward.  During that same game, as stated above by someone else, he also played the two guard. Opinion has nothing to do with it. While Duncan may be a better player with his back to the basket, their field goal percentages have usually been within a few hundredths of a percent of one another. On the other hand, KG's unique ability to defend many types of players helps make the Celtic defense the force that it is. The opinion of many. KG at center - KG can play center. At 7'1" and 250 lbs, he can play center better than most centers. Was Bill Russell not a true Center at 6'9" and 215 lbs? How about Dave Cowens at 6'9" and 230 lbs. who shot from distance? Howard is allowed do to things that no other Center in the NBA is allowed to do. If the rules were the same for him as they are for everyone else, many centers and forwards could guard him easily. To say that is stupid is like saying professional wrestling is legit. Since you failed to respond to the most important argument related to KG in 2008 and this year, I guess you were hoping that it would go away. ... sorry...    As I have stated KG and Duncan are both great players. They do have somewhat different skills and talents that allow each to excel in their own way. The fact that KG might have been considered at  Duncan's level or maybe even above his level if he had been on a great team, is best shown by the results of 2004, 2008 and again this year. You your self said that you like KG better than Duncan this year. In 2008 it was KG that was the top vote getter for the all-star game not Duncan. In 2008, it was KG that came close to winning the league MVP again, not Duncan. Duncan did not take a vacation, the Celtics were just the better team. Therefore, if KG had the chance to be on a great team from the beginning of his career like the Celtics, as was true of Duncan, there is a good chance that they would have been considered at a similar level.
    Posted by Jump-ball-overtime[/QUOTE]

    In 2008 and 2004 KG was clearly better than Duncan. But we're not only talking about 2 years here. What we're talking about is their whole careers. Just because KG was better in 2004 and 2008 it doesn't mean that Duncan is not better. Duncan was better than KG in 1998, 1999, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2009, and 2010. 

    Nobody said KG and Duncan are not on a similar level. All I'm saying is Duncan has the slight edge because he's the better low post player. 

    KG played PG in 2004 Western Conference Finals against the Lakers, fine. But he did not start the game at PG. 

    And All-Star games don't count, they're only exhibition games.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from P34. Show P34's posts

    Re: CAN NOT WAIT TO SEE KG VS. GASOL

    Who's better is also not solely based on how they fared against each other. It includes how they performed against the rest of the NBA.

    If you say Duncan and KG are equals head to head then fine. 

    It's also true you're being stupid and ridiculous. A team owner doesn't care who plays better in an All-Star game. What the owner wants is a championship and more championships. 

    Larry Bird's 20-10-5 seasons were great because it resulted in 3 championships. What's the point in getting 20-10-5 if you can't even make it to the Finals?
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from P34. Show P34's posts

    Re: CAN NOT WAIT TO SEE KG VS. GASOL

    In Response to Re: CAN NOT WAIT TO SEE KG VS. GASOL:
    [QUOTE] Howard is allowed do to things that no other Center in the NBA is allowed to do. If the rules were the same for him as they are for everyone else, many centers and forwards could guard him easily. To say that is stupid is like saying professional wrestling is legit.
    Posted by Jump-ball-overtime[/QUOTE]

    Like the refs are David Stern's henchmen? 

    And the Lakers' 2010 championship was tainted?

    What you just stated are not facts, it's just your opinion.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Tachometrix. Show Tachometrix's posts

    Re: CAN NOT WAIT TO SEE KG VS. GASOL

    In Response to Re: CAN NOT WAIT TO SEE KG VS. GASOL:
    [QUOTE] In 2003 he absolutely destroyed Vince Carter at small forward in the All-Star game, and he did win the MVP of the game at small forward.  During that same game, as stated above by someone else, he also played the two guard. Opinion has nothing to do with it. 
    Posted by Jump-ball-overtime[/QUOTE]

    That is so funny. Man, destroyed Vince Carter, no? Awesome!

    By the way, did KG get a ring for destroying VC?
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Tachometrix. Show Tachometrix's posts

    Re: CAN NOT WAIT TO SEE KG VS. GASOL

    In Response to Re: CAN NOT WAIT TO SEE KG VS. GASOL:
    [QUOTE]I saw the games. I am sorry that you did not. Since this is a side issue, I will not waste my time. I did not say that KG could play every position. I said that he has played every position. and that he has been effective guarding all five positions. There is a difference. He did play point guard in the Western Conference finals when Sam Cassel was injured and the second string point guard, Troy Hudson,  had a sprained ankle. I saw it, it is too bad that you did not. It is common knowledge for those that followed KG's early career. Opinion has nothing to do with it.
    Posted by Jump-ball-overtime[/QUOTE]

    Here's a link for you that will tell you that KG never started at PG in the 2004 Western Conference Finals. When Cassell couldn't play it was D.Martin who started in his place.

    Sure KG played some PG at some point in the games, but Ray Allen can do that and Paul Pierce can certainly play PG for stretches in a game. 

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from NoraG1. Show NoraG1's posts

    Re: CAN NOT WAIT TO SEE KG VS. GASOL

    In Response to Re: CAN NOT WAIT TO SEE KG VS. GASOL:
    [QUOTE]Who's better is also not solely based on how they fared against each other. It includes how they performed against the rest of the NBA. If you say Duncan and KG are equals head to head then fine.  It's also true you're being stupid and ridiculous. A team owner doesn't care who plays better in an All-Star game. What the owner wants is a championship and more championships.  Larry Bird's 20-10-5 seasons were great because it resulted in 3 championships. What's the point in getting 20-10-5 if you can't even make it to the Finals?
    Posted by P34[/QUOTE]
    Um, compare who Larry Bird had around him and who KG had around him. Quite the difference. It kind of helps to winb championships when you have help. Ask KG in 2008.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from NoraG1. Show NoraG1's posts

    Re: CAN NOT WAIT TO SEE KG VS. GASOL

    One player can't win a chmpionship by themselves. It has been proven time and time again.
     
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