Celtics are better with Nate at the point

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from puddinpuddin. Show puddinpuddin's posts

    Re: Celtics are better with Nate at the point

    In Response to Celtics are better with Nate at the point:
    [QUOTE]Especially in the fourth quarter. It opens up the floor for Paul's isos because they can't double off Nate.
    Posted by Kirk6[/QUOTE]

    We're kicking a dead horse.... again!!!

    Pud
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from concord27. Show concord27's posts

    Re: Celtics are better with Nate at the point

    You are kicking it but Nate does create problems for the opposition.  Just that Rondo creates even more.
     
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  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from puddinpuddin. Show puddinpuddin's posts

    Re: Celtics are better with Nate at the point

    In Response to Re: Celtics are better with Nate at the point:
    [QUOTE]When was the last time we scored 28 points in the fourth quarter with Rondo at the point?
    Posted by Kirk6[/QUOTE]

    4th quarter vs. Nets... game on the line.... Nate's 25 foot dagger three at 0:56 sec.... and then his fast break dish back to KG for the point blank jam at 0:38sec brought tears of joy to my face. 

    Neither play would have been made by Rondo.

    Pud
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from maine12. Show maine12's posts

    Re: Celtics are better with Nate at the point

    In Response to Re: Celtics are better with Nate at the point:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Celtics are better with Nate at the point : 4th quarter vs. Nets... game on the line.... Nate's 25 foot dagger three at 0:56 sec.... and then his fast break dish back to KG for the point blank jam at 0:38sec brought tears of joy to my face.  Neither play would have been made by Rondo. Pud
    Posted by puddinpuddin[/QUOTE]

    True because if Rondo played they would have been up 15 against the Nets in the 4th which means Rondo would be resting up for the Raptors.

     
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    Re: Celtics are better with Nate at the point

    In Response to Re: Celtics are better with Nate at the point:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Celtics are better with Nate at the point : True because if Rondo played they would have been up 15 against the Nets in the 4th which means Rondo would be resting up for the Raptors.
    Posted by maine12[/QUOTE]

    Indeed! Your argument is compelling!

    Pud
     
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  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from BRADinLA. Show BRADinLA's posts

    Re: Celtics are better with Nate at the point

    In Response to Re: Celtics are better with Nate at the point:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Celtics are better with Nate at the point : They are undefeated without Rondo.
    Posted by Kirk6[/QUOTE]
    I don't think you can point to the few games that Rondo's been out as evidence that the team is better with Nate at the point.  We'd have to see a much larger sample size to make that judgement.  I'm open to the idea if it's true, but I'll say this, no way we go as far as we did in the playoffs last year with Nate at the point.  Sure we ultimately lost in  game 7 and part of that was Rondo's inability to make his free throws and shoot the J but I think you take Rondo out of that situation and we wouldn't have even gotten that far.  Perk being in games 6 & 7 would have made up for Rondo's deficiencies I think, but there is no substitute for what RR provides.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from gxs11. Show gxs11's posts

    Re: Celtics are better with Nate at the point

    Certainly they are better if RaJon Rondo is not available, but Nate is better as a shooting guard, both for his own mental comfort and as a scorer. Rajon is much better than Nate at running the offense and at creating steals and deflections. He also is better at dishing from a penetration, possibly because he knows his teammates preferences and comfort zones so well, and because his view of the entire floor is so much better than anyone else's since Larry Bird.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from BRADinLA. Show BRADinLA's posts

    Re: Celtics are better with Nate at the point

    Seems that Rondo detractors are really focused on offense.  Remember though, Rondo's defense is stellar and truly irreplaceable and this Celtics team is a defense first team.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Petey62. Show Petey62's posts

    Re: Celtics are better with Nate at the point

    In Response to Re: Celtics are better with Nate at the point:
    [QUOTE]Seems that Rondo detractors are really focused on offense.  Remember though, Rondo's defense is stellar and truly irreplaceable and this Celtics team is a defense first team.
    Posted by BRADinLA[/QUOTE]

    Brad, I think the Celtics are a "team defense" team first.  Rondo's individual defense is often lacking because he doesn't commit to it.  He doesn't stay with it.  He frequently gambles and is slow off the pick-and-roll "because" he knows he has backup.  He won "All Defensive" team but many posters here agree that his defense is very inconsistent and for stretches is downright horrible.

    Now on the offensive end, I think folks were seeing (when Rondo was hurt) the effect of teams not playing off our PG.  Folks saw how effective the other players could be when teams had to cover our PG and thus could not double whoever got the ball.  Honestly, and I'm sure you'll agree, it made the other players more free to do what they do best.  Seems Shaq just rose his game to another level.

    With all that being said, the Celtics are NOT better with Nate at the point.  However, there are certain situations when we play better with Nate at the point -- that is when our emphasis needs to be on offense.  Even as a "defense first" team, we often go through long stretches where our offense is non-existent.  That is when Nate at the point would be a good option-to free up everyone.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from OneOnOne. Show OneOnOne's posts

    Re: Celtics are better with Nate at the point

    If we are better with Nate we sure wasted a lot of money for a staring PG when we could have Nate for very few dollars.   I am sure if you took a poll among NBA coaches if the C's were better with Nate than Rondo I would bet the house they would all say Rondo by a landslide.  Oh well what do they know.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Speed3Bri. Show Speed3Bri's posts

    Re: Celtics are better with Nate at the point

    In Response to Celtics are better with Nate at the point:
    [QUOTE]Especially in the fourth quarter. It opens up the floor for Paul's isos because they can't double off Nate.
    Posted by Kirk6[/QUOTE]
    Really now?   Is that why the Celtics were a +23 with Rondo on the floor and a -12 with Nate on the floor tonite vs the Raptors.  Check the box score...

     http://stats.boston.com/nba/boxscore.asp?gamecode=2010112602

    Get off Rondo's back...  we're very lucky to have him.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from OneOnOne. Show OneOnOne's posts

    Re: Celtics are better with Nate at the point

    You can't really use that argument cause Rondo played with the starters.  The C's could be a better offensive team with Robinson but not defensively. Overall I think I will Keep rondo starting.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Karllost. Show Karllost's posts

    Re: Celtics are better with Nate at the point

    Personally, I like the idea of Nate playing late in a close game over Rondo.

    Face it, our offense has bogged down late in some games due to the fact Rondo cant shoot and D's sag.  Nate is also a much better FT shooter. Whats wrong with playing the percentages?? I know Doc is never going to do it but its a nice thought.

    Overall Im starting to think Rondo is more focused on assists than the game. He was going lob crazy tonight, some good, some not so good. Even passed up a layup.. gotta think team first, not assists first.

    Defensively, Rondo isnt as good as hes cracked up to be imo. Gambles too often and cannot fight through picks. Nate usually sticks with his opponent much better and fights thru picks.

    Geez, Im really not trying to smack Rondo around here, he should def be the starter. Just saying Nate brings other tools to the game that could be used in certain spots more often
     
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  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from PHX85014. Show PHX85014's posts

    Re: Celtics are better with Nate at the point

    Put down your one hitter and get some fresh air. Rajon Rondo is going to the Hall of Fame.

    Nate Robinson is perfect for 20 minutes tops. Eddie House has never averaged 20 minutes a game or 10 points a game, because if he did, he wouldn't be as effective. Same story with Nate Robinson.
     
    Why don't we tap the brakes and not bench Rondo just yet ...?




     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Speed3Bri. Show Speed3Bri's posts

    Re: Celtics are better with Nate at the point

    In Response to Re: Celtics are better with Nate at the point:
    [QUOTE]Personally, I like the idea of Nate playing late in a close game over Rondo. Face it, our offense has bogged down late in some games due to the fact Rondo cant shoot and D's sag.  Nate is also a much better FT shooter. Whats wrong with playing the percentages?? I know Doc is never going to do it but its a nice thought. Overall Im starting to think Rondo is more focused on assists than the game. He was going lob crazy tonight, some good, some not so good. Even passed up a layup.. gotta think team first, not assists first. Defensively, Rondo isnt as good as hes cracked up to be imo. Gambles too often and cannot fight through picks. Nate usually sticks with his opponent much better and fights thru picks. Geez, Im really not trying to smack Rondo around here, he should def be the starter. Just saying Nate brings other tools to the game that could be used in certain spots more often
    Posted by Karllost[/QUOTE]

    Think about what you just said here....   "Gotta think team first, not assists first".  Are assists not about getting your teammates involved?  You would rather have Nate taking jump shots from the elbow than Rondo dishing underneath to KG or Shack?  Or slashing to the basket collapsing the defense and dishing out to Ray for an uncontested 3?  I'm sorry,  but this makes zero sense.

    Nate is perfect in the role he plays right now...  10-15 minutes off the bench.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from OneOnOne. Show OneOnOne's posts

    Re: Celtics are better with Nate at the point

    In Response to Re: Celtics are better with Nate at the point:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Celtics are better with Nate at the point : Think about what you just said here....   "Gotta think team first, not assists first" .  Are assists not about getting your teammates involved?  You would rather have Nate taking jump shots from the elbow than Rondo dishing underneath to KG or Shack?  Or slashing to the basket collapsing the defense and dishing out to Ray for an uncontested 3?  I'm sorry,  but this makes zero sense. Nate is perfect in the role he plays right now...  10-15 minutes off the bench.
    Posted by Speed3Bri[/QUOTE]

    As long as he gets 14 assists a game I don't care what he concentrates on.  I just wish he would cut down on TO's.  A lot of time he is pretty careless but I can live with it just like I can live with Ray not dribbling well, Pauls TO's and KG's craziness.  What we have is a very good team just the way it is. 
     
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    Re: Celtics are better with Nate at the point

    In Response to Celtics are better with Nate at the point:
    [QUOTE]Especially in the fourth quarter. It opens up the floor for Paul's isos because they can't double off Nate.
    Posted by Kirk6[/QUOTE]

    Funny you bring up ISO's. Nearly everyone says they hate them, but its our best option at the end of games, quaters, etc.  Of course  Nate would have to prove he could knock down the shot.  Some players don't hit the shot.
     
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    Re: Celtics are better with Nate at the point

    Kirk6, r u high? Put the bong down dude.
     
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    Re: Celtics are better with Nate at the point

    In Response to Re: Celtics are better with Nate at the point:
    [QUOTE]Personally, I like the idea of Nate playing late in a close game over Rondo. Face it, our offense has bogged down late in some games due to the fact Rondo cant shoot and D's sag.  Posted by Karllost[/QUOTE]

    not to be draconian about it, but SOMETHING has to give this year in order for us to really be finals contenders.  last year it was sheer improvement in rondo's game, despite the still missing final ingredients of basic jumper & FT reliability.

    this year, we are well into it, and rondo has once again become putrid at the free throw line and now people are dazzled by his high assist numbers, that i think are more akin to other people having to do more work to get the points scored than really snazzy point guard play.

    so, my key point being, if rondo does not IMPROVE this year, and he has not- his individual defense is lazy/sloppy at times, and he still can't shoot- THEN HOW DO WE GET BETTER TO MITIGATE AGE ON OUR STARS????

    the answer to that is going with nate in fourth quarters.  not necessarily every game.  but EVERY time i see that horrid slow down, the ray and the paul bringing the ball up to insulate our lilliputian point guard star from having to shoot freebies and earn his keep, then PULL THE PLUG on that project and put nate in and let him prove you wrong.

    so far nate has largely risen to the occasion and the DECREASED WORK LOAD on KG, PP, RA make them getting their points so less laborious it is worth having a floor spreader out there rather than a superior passer who over-passes it in a half court game and won't shoot.  nobody will be doubling off of nate because he's automatic on wide open shots.  end of story.

    THAT is how this team improves this year to make up for father time.  that and better quality bigs assuming shak or jerlame is healthy enough to play.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Karllost. Show Karllost's posts

    Re: Celtics are better with Nate at the point

    In Response to Re: Celtics are better with Nate at the point:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Celtics are better with Nate at the point : Think about what you just said here....   "Gotta think team first, not assists first" .  Are assists not about getting your teammates involved?  You would rather have Nate taking jump shots from the elbow than Rondo dishing underneath to KG or Shack?  Or slashing to the basket collapsing the defense and dishing out to Ray for an uncontested 3?  I'm sorry,  but this makes zero sense. Nate is perfect in the role he plays right now...  10-15 minutes off the bench.
    Posted by Speed3Bri[/QUOTE]

    Speed, I disagree with you.  Rondo getting assists is great but thats not the big picture. The point being it could be similar to Kobe getting 35 points but he shot 15-45 to get there.

    Last night Rondo had a layup but decided to kick it out for a jumper. Great, one more assist maybe but thats not how to play the game. The PG is not all about assists, its about running the offense and being efficient. Im just saying Rondo sometimes seems more focused on getting his assist #'s up that hes been making some iffy passes...  Also, big assist #'s doesnt necessarily mean your PG is getting everyone involved  and doing a great job...it means first and foremost, your teammates are making shots.  If KGs not hitting his 20 footer, if PP & Ray are missing 3's, Rondos assists are down. 

    On the bright side, Rondo assists have led to many layups, which is great.

    Lastly, Nate does bring a few dimensions that Rondo cannot. Nate can shoot, create his own shot and hit FT's.  Our crunch time offense in the 4th qtr during close games has deteriorated. Pierce iso's have yielded little. Main reason imo is defenses sag, begging Rondo to shoot. If he drives, he gets fouled and misses his FT's. Theres no secret about the C's 4th qtr collapses. With Nate, the 1/2 court offense changes for the better. Doc wont do it but I bet many players wish he would




     
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    Re: Celtics are better with Nate at the point

    In Response to Re: Celtics are better with Nate at the point:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Celtics are better with Nate at the point : Speed, I disagree with you.  Rondo getting assists is great but thats not the big picture. The point being it could be similar to Kobe getting 35 points but he shot 15-45 to get there. Last night Rondo had a layup but decided to kick it out for a jumper. Great, one more assist maybe but thats not how to play the game. The PG is not all about assists, its about running the offense and being efficient. Im just saying Rondo sometimes seems more focused on getting his assist #'s up that hes been making some iffy passes...  Also, big assist #'s doesnt necessarily mean your PG is getting everyone involved  and doing a great job...it means first and foremost, your teammates are making shots.  If KGs not hitting his 20 footer, if PP & Ray are missing 3's, Rondos assists are down.  On the bright side, Rondo assists have led to many layups, which is great. Lastly, Nate does bring a few dimensions that Rondo cannot. Nate can shoot, create his own shot and hit FT's.  Our crunch time offense in the 4th qtr during close games has deteriorated. Pierce iso's have yielded little. Main reason imo is defenses sag, begging Rondo to shoot. If he drives, he gets fouled and misses his FT's. Theres no secret about the C's 4th qtr collapses. With Nate, the 1/2 court offense changes for the better. Doc wont do it but I bet many players wish he would
    Posted by Karllost[/QUOTE]

    Rondo goes from being a 14/10 guy last season to a 10/14 guy this season... so far. I am not at all convinced that this is improvement. Seems like regression to me.

    His shooting confidence has deteriorated and he seems to be fixated now on snazzy overpassing to rack up assist stats instead. That's hardly leadership.

    I happened to flip over to the Jazz-Lakers after the C's game last night and the leadership comparions between DWilliams and Rondo at crunch time could not have been more stark.

    Pud
     
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    Re: Celtics are better with Nate at the point



     Rondo is the best point guard in the NBA.
     
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