Celtics lay down again.

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from df2. Show df2's posts

    Celtics lay down again.

    This is getting old. Fifteen point lead against a team they are far more talented than, and they just stop playing.

    I can't tell if the continual lack of effort is because they are soft or if it's just massive arrogance. But I'm getting a little sick of it They can't get up for a game at home against a team that helped the refs steal a championship from them last year?

    And how many times do Kobe and Gasol have to run that pick and roll before the morons stop falling for it. That's grade school stuff. And then there's the, as Bill Simmons calls it, the clogged toilet offense. Where four of the Celtics stand as still as a statue and rondo half heartedly dribbles around for 16 seconds before jacking up an unguarded 14 footer that has no chance of going in.

    At this point, a 14 footer by Rondo is about as productive as him taking the ball and heaving it into the stands. Either way youre not scoring. At least if he threw the ball out of bounds you wouldn't have to worry about the other team getting a fast break layup off the rebound. He did the same thing in the Dallas game with a minute left that basically cost us the game. I seriously don't want Rondo ever taking a shot in a close game with more than 2 seconds left on the shot clock. Until he can get his shooting and free throw percentages to a respectable level Robinson or West should be closing out games. The Rondo handicap is getting a little ridiculous.

    I fear Rondo has been reading way too much of his own hype. Someobody needs to knock that arrogance out him before it's too late. He has to realize what his limitations are. And he obviously doesn't.

    I don't know if the ankle is still bothering him. But if he can get back to being an agressive slasher, then I think he is perfect for this team. Right now. But the thought of building a team around him in the future terrifies me. No Doc, Pierce, KG or Allen. And Rondo as the centerpiece? That's a 20 win team. Not to mention the money it's going to take to resign Perk. You're looking at almost 100 million tied up in two players that can't score.

    And Danny Ainge is more lucky than good. People seem to forget about some of the awful moves he made. Such as Sebastian Telfair for the 7th pick in the entire draft. I give Danny credit for what he's done here. But let's not labor under the delusion that he's some sort of genius that will be able to whip this team back into championship form without skipping a beat.

    After this season or next and the Big Three are gone we are looking at some bleak times. So I'm really trying to enjoy the present. But the Celtics are making it really hard by continually rolling over. You can say this is the regular season and it doesn't matter. But they did the same thing last year in game 7. I get that the game was not fairly officiated. But the Celtics were the better team. Does anybody think that Larry Bird, Michael or any truly great player/team would have let the refs beat them in that situation?

    The Celtics appear to be soft. And apparently unable to beat playoff calibre teams if Pierce is struggling. This is second poor performance by him. I'm guessing he is still under the weather. But it illustrates a point: Pierce is clearly this team's best player and it's only pure scorer.  

    Flame away if you want. God forbid anybody say anything negative about the Celtics. But I'm just pissed right now. Maybe more than I sould be. This team could be so much better than it is. If it wanted to. It's getting frustrating. 
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Celtsfan4life. Show Celtsfan4life's posts

    Re: Celtics lay down again.

    Oh just stop.  Were all pissed about losses but you don't go bashing EVERYTHING out of frustration.  Try having some integrity in your comments.   Larry Bird and Michael Jordan?  You don't think they've lost games and lost ugly????   Worst Bird loss was to Lakers in the playoffs by a large margin.   Everyone has tough times in the season.   Panic people like you posted like this last season....then cheered when this same set of starters went all the way to the finals.....with the same heart they have now.  This is NOT a soft team, but a tired and hurt team, obviously.

    They have problems, some serious problems.  But, they also have some great assets.  Keep some kind of balance in your posts, man.


     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from KGLove. Show KGLove's posts

    Re: Celtics lay down again.

    #injuries
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from aciemvp. Show aciemvp's posts

    Re: Celtics lay down again.

    In Response to Re: Celtics lay down again.:
    Oh just stop.  Were all pissed about losses but you don't go bashing EVERYTHING out of frustration.  Try having some integrity in your comments.   Larry Bird and Michael Jordan?  You don't think they've lost games and lost ugly????   Worst Bird loss was to Lakers in the playoffs by a large margin.   Everyone has tough times in the season.   Panic people like you posted like this last season....then cheered when this same set of starters went all the way to the finals.....with the same heart they have now.  This is NOT a soft team, but a tired and hurt team, obviously. They have problems, some serious problems.  But, they also have some great assets.  Keep some kind of balance in your posts, man.
    Posted by Celtsfan4life


    yep, tired and hurt. 

    i guess some of us are looking for more and getting less out of rondo.  at this stage of his career he should be able to keep defenses honest and have games where he rips up another team singlehandedly.  so far this season he's carried us once or twice at the most.

    he had a nice few games in a row recently capped off with a 26 point game, and then he has slid back into the passive kingdom where he usually resides.  an old tired team needs a young PG to be 1) consistent 2) willing to take the reigns and do a few more things when it's called for

    i mean really, if the lakers have to play rondo straight up instead of giving kobe vacation time then he's looking at derek fossil fisher and steve "molasses" blake- the lakers should be a virtual field day for rondo. 

    instead we have kobe playing the pooplog role in the clogged toilet celts offense.  nothing much gets done in the lane with an extra laker guy vacationing  in there!  it's very frustrating to watch these laker games where we are playing 4 on 5 on offense, 3 on 5 sometimes when perkins is in there. 

    and what's making it happen is rondo's lack of fundamentals, not the team being old and tired, although it does greatly exacerbate the old and tired problem when everyone has to work harder and we end up WAY TOO PERIMETER ORIENTED becuase the lane is kobeclogged.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Waynestarr. Show Waynestarr's posts

    Re: Celtics lay down again.

    In Response to Re: Celtics lay down again.:
    In Response to Re: Celtics lay down again. : yep, tired and hurt.  i guess some of us are looking for more and getting less out of rondo.  at this stage of his career he should be able to keep defenses honest and have games where he rips up another team singlehandedly.  so far this season he's carried us once or twice at the most. he had a nice few games in a row recently capped off with a 26 point game, and then he has slid back into the passive kingdom where he usually resides.  an old tired team needs a young PG to be 1) consistent 2) willing to take the reigns and do a few more things when it's called for i mean really, if the lakers have to play rondo straight up instead of giving kobe vacation time then he's looking at derek fossil fisher and steve "molasses" blake- the lakers should be a virtual field day for rondo.  instead we have kobe playing the pooplog role in the clogged toilet celts offense.  nothing much gets done in the lane with an extra laker guy vacationing  in there!  it's very frustrating to watch these laker games where we are playing 4 on 5 on offense, 3 on 5 sometimes when perkins is in there.  and what's making it happen is rondo's lack of fundamentals, not the team being old and tired, although it does greatly exacerbate the old and tired problem when everyone has to work harder and we end up WAY TOO PERIMETER ORIENTED becuase the lane is kobeclogged.
    Posted by aciemvp



    Good points Ace. In total agreement.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from P34. Show P34's posts

    Re: Celtics lay down again.

    In Response to Re: Celtics lay down again.:
    In Response to Re: Celtics lay down again. : Good points Ace. In total agreement.
    Posted by Waynestarr


    The solution is Delonte West. 
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Waynestarr. Show Waynestarr's posts

    Re: Celtics lay down again.

    In Response to Re: Celtics lay down again.:
    In Response to Re: Celtics lay down again. : The solution is Delonte West. 
    Posted by P34


    Correct. I mentioned him in another thread. The smart thing to do in close games is to play Delonte and Nate in the 4th quarter so opposing defenses can't cheat on defense.

    The Lakers really clogged the paint in the 4th.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Celtsfan4life. Show Celtsfan4life's posts

    Re: Celtics lay down again.

    In Response to Re: Celtics lay down again.:
    In Response to Re: Celtics lay down again. : The solution is Delonte West. 
    Posted by P34


    I hope so but I hate to put so much on one player.  He's not an allstar so we'll only get so much out of Delonte.  I hope KG gets his swagger/confidence back as well.

    I wonder if all of the "anti-KG" talk about him being dirty or hitting someone in the nuts or other BS is affecting him.  We are not getting his best right now, nor Paul's nor Rondo's.   I think Ray is the only starter having a good shooting touch the last 5 games.   I am not concerned about Paul - he will come around and be killing it, I'm sure.  KG, however, has to become more consistent inside.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from atomic. Show atomic's posts

    Re: Celtics lay down again.

    i hear your frustration, but there are so many things going on here that its hard to single out one reason for this loss. calling the celts soft is way off. injuries (obviously), fatigue through lack of depth, sagging off rondo, not enough bodies to spread fouls around to avoid foul trouble, paul pierce who usually plays big against the lakers was terrible, no bench...i could go on. still and all, the game was close.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from BoylestonBB. Show BoylestonBB's posts

    Re: Celtics lay down again.

    In Response to Re: Celtics lay down again.:
    In Response to Re: Celtics lay down again. : The solution is Delonte West. 
    Posted by P34


    He exists?
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Micksoxx. Show Micksoxx's posts

    Re: Celtics lay down again.

    Kendrick Perkins has hands like feet...

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from aciemvp. Show aciemvp's posts

    Re: Celtics lay down again.

    In Response to Re: Celtics lay down again.:
    In Response to Re: Celtics lay down again. : The solution is Delonte West. 
    Posted by P34


    it's a risky proposition.  delonte has found injury an awful lot over the course of his career.  if he fails we are down to signing a buyout at the end for the playoff roster.  and if delonte pans out physically, now you are still depending on him panning out mentally which the last two years has caused him to miss time.

    don't get me wrong, i think a healthy delonte will do this team a lot of good.    but it's far from a sure thing.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from bostonsucks69. Show bostonsucks69's posts

    Re: Celtics lay down again.

    In Response to Re: Celtics lay down again.:
    Kendrick Perkins has hands like feet...
    Posted by Micksoxx


    And a face that looks like a butt.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from df2. Show df2's posts

    Re: Celtics lay down again.

    Ok, that post was the perfect example of why I shouldn't post immediately after a loss. I tend to get a bit emotional.

    If Pierce is 100% and has a typical Pierce game we win tonight. But I just don't get the lack of effort from this team at times. Too often the offense stagnates where everyone is just standing around. And it makes it impossible to get a decent shot. 100 points should be easy against the mediocre Lakers' defense. Rondo has become far too passive. If this team is going to win a title he has to start playing better. 

    Or the team gets collectively brain dead. Like the Dallas game. Where the last 3 Celtics offensive possessions were:

    1) A 15 footer by Rondo. Always a terrible idea. But competely moronic with a minute left in the game.

    2) A near 3 pointer by KG. He has a pretty good jump shot for a big man. But that was completely out of his range. Just a really bad idea.

    3) A somewhat contested jumper by Ray Allen with very little time gone off the shot clock

    Three stupid shots by a veteran team to snuff out any chances of winning. Aren't veterans supposed to be smarter than this? 

    The thing that is truly disturbing are all the loses where the Celtics just don't show up. That, to me,is the sign of a mentally weak team. They have had several losses against teams that are flat out awful. And several more near losses to bad teams. They lost to Cleveland. That says it all.

    There's just no sense of urgency with this team. They tend to get lazy and try to coast. Something just doesn't feel right with this team mentally.

    Doc and the team keep talking about fixing this. But that's all it is. It's just talk. Because it keeps happening. Maybe it's not laziness. Maybe it's a maturity issue. 

    But considering the overall lack of talent in today's NBA this team should be able challenge the Bulls' 72 win mark. Instead,they will be lucky to win 60. And the same mentality that plauged them in the regular season carried over into the playoffs. Thay had a 13 point lead late in game 7 last year and still found a way to lose.

    I just don't get it. I guess you would have to say age has something to do with it as well. I don't know. 

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from tomobo. Show tomobo's posts

    Re: Celtics lay down again.

    I see why rondo doesn't shoot..This won't help his confidence much either..Soon all teams are going to play off him so blatently..It'll take a month for west to be effective as well. O'Neil's= no show. Welcome to home court disadvantage
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Karllost. Show Karllost's posts

    Re: Celtics lay down again.

    Lets not lose sight that the Celts are missing so many players. 

    Ive posted about things that bug me but I want to focus now of minutes.

    With all the attention Doc always places on managing the Big 3's minutes, many times he violates that policy. Doc did same thing last year, refusing to play the bench and running PP and Ray ragged at the end of the season.

    Give Luke some more minutes and everyone else on our thin bench. So what it costs us some games, it'll cost us more later running our stars down and maybe even injuring them. Apparently BBD is having trouble handling the extra minutes hes getting and having to play the 5....his game going downhill.. but whats our alternative there? Right, not many.

    Rondo just isnt playing the same as he did earlier in the season. Hey, its the dog days of the season and maybe thats why, although hes young..  but he hasnt been nearly as consistent or productive since coming back off his injury. Also, everyone knows my position regarding Rondo and end of game strategy... just hope DOc uses West in those spots occassionally.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from puddinpuddin. Show puddinpuddin's posts

    Re: Celtics lay down again.

    In Response to Re: Celtics lay down again.:
    I see why rondo doesn't shoot..This won't help his confidence much either..Soon all teams are going to play off him so blatently..It'll take a month for west to be effective as well. O'Neil's= no show. Welcome to home court disadvantage
    Posted by tomobo


    How is it that 5 years into his career, a two time all star and some here regard as special, a perfect fit for the Cs, the face of the franchise,  and the best PG in the league... and we are still talking about Rondo's confidence like it is a fragile piece of 9 mill/year porcelain?

    This kids exudes confidence. Listen to him talk about how he is the best PG in the trade. Listen how others seem to agree with him.

    Listen to all this talk... and then watch him completely disrespected by the Lakers... all the while Kobe resting on defense.

    Poor Rondo. 

    Pud


     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Waynestarr. Show Waynestarr's posts

    Re: Celtics lay down again.

    In Response to Re: Celtics lay down again.:
    In Response to Re: Celtics lay down again. : How is it that 5 years into his career, a two time all star and some here regard as special, a perfect fit for the Cs, the face of the franchise,  and the best PG in the league... and we are still talking about Rondo's confidence like it is a fragile piece of 9 mill/year porcelain? This kids exudes confidence. Listen to him talk about how he is the best PG in the trade. Listen how others seem to agree with him. Listen to all this talk... and then watch him completely disrespected by the Lakers... all the while Kobe resting on defense. Poor Rondo.  Pud
    Posted by puddinpuddin


    I hear ya. Rondo the best PG in the league? No way in hell. You can't say that in here though, without getting your HEAD handed to you.

    The best PG's in the league NEVER have to worry about getting open shots...because they are ALWAYS DOUBLE TEAMED.

    Catch my drift?
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from basketbert. Show basketbert's posts

    Re: Celtics lay down again.

    In Response to Re: Celtics lay down again.:
    Lets not lose sight that the Celts are missing so many players.  Ive posted about things that bug me but I want to focus now of minutes. With all the attention Doc always places on managing the Big 3's minutes, many times he violates that policy. Doc did same thing last year, refusing to play the bench and running PP and Ray ragged at the end of the season. Give Luke some more minutes and everyone else on our thin bench. So what it costs us some games, it'll cost us more later running our stars down and maybe even injuring them. Apparently BBD is having trouble handling the extra minutes hes getting and having to play the 5....his game going downhill.. but whats our alternative there? Right, not many. Rondo just isnt playing the same as he did earlier in the season. Hey, its the dog days of the season and maybe thats why, although hes young..  but he hasnt been nearly as consistent or productive since coming back off his injury. Also, everyone knows my position regarding Rondo and end of game strategy... just hope DOc uses West in those spots occassionally.
    Posted by Karllost



    Agree completely with the time-managing issue. I fear that we are losing the race with the Heat an Chicago for best record due to all the injury issues, and on top of that we overplay Pierce, Allen etc. I think the best chance we have is to TRY to get everyone rested and healthy for the playoffs even if it costs us some games.

    Doc, why not play wafer 20-25 mins a game? Dude's young. Play Luke more as well. Who knows, maybe they'll surprise us.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from TeamUmbutu. Show TeamUmbutu's posts

    Re: Celtics lay down again.

    Injuries, and substandard defense because of injuries.

    We have short memories on this board. Remember the last Laker game, when the Celtics blew out the Lakers on their home court?
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from chuchos. Show chuchos's posts

    Re: Celtics lay down again.

    Seems to me like the Celtics ran out of gas after Allen broke the record.  
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from shines01. Show shines01's posts

    why doesn't he shoot the ball?

    It's almost like a wasted season for Rondo.  He should have shot way more already.  He will never shoot well if he passes up every open shot he gets.  He passed up layups for kick out jumpers again also last night.  He needs to shoot.  Unless there is a dunk ahead of him he needs to shoot every time they sag.  He doesn't even need to make the shots he just needs to shoot them.  It would have been nice if he was heading into the second half of the season with a little more balance to his basically excellent offensive senses.  You can't just not shoot from your position.  Phil Jackson is gonna exploit that forever.  Cmon Rondo, what are you waiting for?  You don't need to be Ray-Ray, you just need to correct what is now a glaring deficiency.  You're gonna lose a lot of respect from every defense in the league if you don't get yourself a reliable mid-range game.  Our offense is excellent but it can't survive zero mid range scoring threat from the point guard slot.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from puddinpuddin. Show puddinpuddin's posts

    Re: why doesn't he shoot the ball?

    In Response to why doesn't he shoot the ball?:
    It's almost like a wasted season for Rondo.  He should have shot way more already.  He will never shoot well if he passes up every open shot he gets.  He passed up layups for kick out jumpers again also last night.  He needs to shoot.  Unless there is a dunk ahead of him he needs to shoot every time they sag.  He doesn't even need to make the shots he just needs to shoot them.  It would have been nice if he was heading into the second half of the season with a little more balance to his basically excellent offensive senses.  You can't just not shoot from your position.  Phil Jackson is gonna exploit that forever.  Cmon Rondo, what are you waiting for?  You don't need to be Ray-Ray, you just need to correct what is now a glaring deficiency.  You're gonna lose a lot of respect from every defense in the league if you don't get yourself a reliable mid-range game.  Our offense is excellent but it can't survive zero mid range scoring threat from the point guard slot.
    Posted by shines01


    A serviceable jumper and Rondo is unstoppable... and the C's are unbeatable.

    Its that simple.

    Pud
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from TheDUDDER. Show TheDUDDER's posts

    Re: why doesn't he shoot the ball?

    In Response to why doesn't he shoot the ball?:
    It's almost like a wasted season for Rondo.  He should have shot way more already.  He will never shoot well if he passes up every open shot he gets.  He passed up layups for kick out jumpers again also last night.  He needs to shoot.  Unless there is a dunk ahead of him he needs to shoot every time they sag.  He doesn't even need to make the shots he just needs to shoot them.  It would have been nice if he was heading into the second half of the season with a little more balance to his basically excellent offensive senses.  You can't just not shoot from your position.  Phil Jackson is gonna exploit that forever.  Cmon Rondo, what are you waiting for?  You don't need to be Ray-Ray, you just need to correct what is now a glaring deficiency.  You're gonna lose a lot of respect from every defense in the league if you don't get yourself a reliable mid-range game.  Our offense is excellent but it can't survive zero mid range scoring threat from the point guard slot.
    Posted by shines01


    Only about 60% of the league scores more points than the Cs.  I have read for years that as long as Rondo and Perk play their roles it does not matter if they score or not.

    Guess what.... it matters.  Especially if there is any discussion about the point guard being the best in the league (though I am not even sure if he is even what I would call an elite point guard).

    Having scored more than 90 in only like one of the last 5 games, it is apparent to me that you cannot survive with a point guard who cannot throw the ball in the ocean while standing waist deep.

    Ponder this - their last handful of losses are against Rose, Brooks, Wall, Nash, etc.  In two of those losses Wall and Nash made last second 3s to win the game...... close your eyes and take a deep breath and then imagine Rondo ever ever ever ever hitting a game winning shot - let alone a 3....... CLANG......

    Rondo does not shoot the ball because he can't, he can't he can't.  A while back Mookie Blaylock could not shoot the ball, he was very quick, he was a very good passer, he was an all-star a couple of times but he was not an elite point guard..... enter Mr. Rondo.  He is the most one dimensional players in the league - any correlation between the drop off in assists and KGs and Shaq's injuries.  Any particular reason why the Magic's game plan was to ignore Rondo and ensure that nobody else will beat them and Rondo exploding for 26 points.... exploding, exploding.... or just a decent night for Westbrook, Rose, Paul, Williams, etc.  Westbrook is the only player in the league averaging 23 points, 9 assists, and 5 boards but somehow Rondo is the best in the league?  What an absolute joke..........   he doesn't shoot the ball because he can't.

    So let's all take a deep breath and accept that he is a nice player who benefits greatly from who he plays with and is really not an elite point guard.

    When a team's game plan is to ignore player A, player A cannot be considered an elite player.
     
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