In Response to Re: Celtics, Most Talented Team in the League:


I actually believe that without Shaq, Bryant would only have 2 Rings (if that as the recent history of the Lakers would have been different if Shaq didn't join the team). Shaq made Kobe's early career what it was. Yes Bryant was a major contributor to the three-peat. But without Shaq in the middle there would have been no rings. Shaq simply was the most dominant player in the league between 2000 to 2002.  Bryant owes part of his post basketball legacy to Shaq.

P34, I'd love nothing more than a Lakers/Celtics finals this season. Always makes for a fun June in our home.

In Response to Re: Celtics, Most Talented Team in the League:

In Response to Re: Celtics, Most Talented Team in the League:


This has to be one of the dumbest posts I've seen. Let me see, Kobe owes his first three rings to........team mates??? No, surely not! I mean Russell won his on his own like Magic,Bird,MJ etc. I didn't see those championships won solely by those players. Alas, I saw those they won with their respective teams but not the solo titles. And poor old Kobe, he too could only win his with his team mates.

And then the real winning remark....Kobe without Shaq would have only 2 titles?! No, really??? OMG, extra extra read all about it!

Did you ask Shaq how many he would have without Kobe or Big Shot Rob etc?

Talk about state the obvious!

In Response to Re: Celtics, Most Talented Team in the League:

Wait and see, wait and see

In Response to Re: Celtics, Most Talented Team in the League:

In Response to Re: Celtics, Most Talented Team in the League:


Facts don't lie......Kobe 5, Shaq 4, Pierce & KG & Ray 1.

Agreed! Kobe and Shaq are great, winning players.

In Response to Re: Celtics, Most Talented Team in the League:


How is that dumb? I don't get how some fans can't take any negative comments that are aimed at Bryant?

Bryant is no MIKAN, Russell, Magic, MJ or Bird. He's a classy player, but easily at a level below those guys. The media hype machine makes him out to be better than what he actually is. Although at least he has won championships unlike Lebron James.

You actually saw Russell win championships? Like, on TV at the time they were being played?

For sure, the Lakers were a dominant team because of Shaq. He had the right pieces put around him by shrewd management. However if Shaq didn't join the team, you would be able to assume that the Spurs would have been the most dominant team in the West. Bryant just didn't have the ability to lead a team deep into the finals on his own. Unlike say an Allen Iverson. Perhaps with a combination of injury to other teams and luck Bryant may have been able to do it.

Some players have the ability to lift the guys around them to great heights. And I don't believe Bryant has this ability. He can inspire his team mates during games, but he's not the type of leader that a Mikan, Russell, MJ, Magic and Bird were. Not to denigrate his ability, he's just not that type of player.

Pierce and Bryant are the same in so many respects. Each needed good players around them to win titles. No player wins a title in the NBA alone, but those guys I mentioned could take a team by the scruff of it's neck and take them to a title. Usually by their personality as much as their ability.

In Response to Re: Celtics, Most Talented Team in the League:

In Response to Re: Celtics, Most Talented Team in the League:



Muahahahaha.

Shaq no titles without Kobe/Wade!

In Response to Re: Celtics, Most Talented Team in the League:

In my mind, you can chalk up championships in a players column to determine greatness when they are the main dog on the team.

For ex, Cowens won titles but so did Henry Finkle during those years. The BUlls won titles as everyone that played for them those 6 years  but MJ was the top dog. These were the biggest reasons, the most valuable players...

The first 3 Kobe rings are clearly Shaq rings. He was without a doubt the big dog. Kobe certainly was a big part of it too, just not the top guy.

McHale was huge part of Celtics championships but anytime you tyhink of those teams, you think of Larry Bird teams. Nobody asks if you remember the Kevin McHale Celtic teams. Same with Bill Walton, a superstar and maybe most gifted center ever.. he won a title with the C's, made a good contribution.. but its still Larrys team

Kobe is great skilled player but I really dont like his game. Takes all kinds of bad shots, has to be the hero. When hes confronted with stifling defense (like the last 2 fionals against the Celtics) he keeps hoisting up bad shots. Look at Kobes shooting percentage against Boston in the finals last 2 times... horrible. Not cause his shot was off, was cause he kept taking awful shots. That said, he has 5 rings but Shaq was the man for 3 of them and Gasol was the man last year. It was a joke Kobe won MVP..pure marketing BS.

Kobe fits into an in-between category. hes below a MJ, Larry & Magic but above a McHale, Rodman & Ginobli.

Last point, great players make teams better, even lousy teams. When Bird came to C's, they were garbage. His first year and every year after, they were contenders.

When Shaq came to Lakers, they won titles. When he left, Kobe couldnt keep them contenders.

Karl,

I liked your post, and it is accurate.

It could also be said that the Lakers won the title last year in spite of Kobe.

His bad shots translated into a field goal percentage of 40% for the series and it was as low as 25% in one game.

It could be said that Kobe was the Finals MVP because he took Perk out. His play, which seemed to be based on achieving personal glory first, at any cost to the team, should not have been the basis for such an award.

This year, with a healthy KG, and a true center on the Celtics (Perk and/or  Shaq), things should be different.

I like our chances.

 No Shaq, no ring, no Gasol, no ring. Kobe or Pippen, best second fiddle of all time!!

I dunno about Kobe as a second fiddle. I don't think there's much of an argument that he wasn't Shaq's second fiddle, but Gasol's? No way. It'd unquestionable he never would have gone anywhere without Gasol but basketball is a team game. Kobe has an incredible work ethic and if not the, the one of the strongest wills in the game. Who did the ball go to with the game on the line every single time? I hate what the Lakers stand for as much as anyone else. But I respect Kobe for his work ethic and his will to win.

In Response to Re: Celtics, Most Talented Team in the League:


The Pippen Bulls were still a contender and almost reached the finals.
LA without Shaq? Not so much!

By the way: Pippen led the Bulls in ALL categories in this year!

What I like best about having shaq is that our marketing-driven league will be salivating for a Kobe-shaq showdown.  Write it in.  Plus I don't think stern is that happy about having 2 of the 3 best players on one team.

I think when the lakers and C's play this year, it will be seen as the celtics turn, and shaq's turn.

c'slook really good! few starting 5's are as good and none can match our bench.
if this is a lakers-celtics comparison... i think both are going to need to position themselves to their advantage come playoff time. the lakers were nearly defeated by a young okc team last year and the c's didn't have to play atlanta who beat them all 4 times last year. the point is to avoid those types of matchups. if possible.
also, i don't think that bynum or perk will be a factor come season's end. it takes time to come back from inury.
it seems kind of foolish to say, but i wonder if the lakers might look to move bynum this year. i know that he is good, but he is hurt alot and phil gets great production from smart, if not supremely talented, big men.

What really showed what Bird could do as a team mate was how he lead Indiana State to the NCAA final. Was such an incredible feat.

In Response to Re: Celtics, Most Talented Team in the League:


He didn't win a ring that year either...and he didn't win without D-Wade. In fact, Shaq rode D-Wade's coattails for that ring.

And Shaq wouldn't have won ANY of his 3 Laker rings without Kobe. Kobe was the reason Shaq was able to roam freely in the middle. It works both ways...Kobe needed Shaq, and Shaq needed Kobe.

In Response to Re: Celtics, Most Talented Team in the League:


And yet he lost to Magic's Michigan State and Magic was voted Most Outstanding player of the Final Four. Magic is also one of four players to win a College/NBA championship in consecutive years and his first NBA title was playing obviously as a rookie with the great Kareem Abdul Jabbar and won Finals MVP and 1st All NBA team as a rookie.

Now that's an incredible feat. Now, if only Rondo could shoot lol.

In Response to Re: Celtics, Most Talented Team in the League:


And yet when the Lakers went back to back 2009-2010 Kobe won Finals MVP! Fail.

In Response to Re: Celtics, Most Talented Team in the League:


Shaq called himself the Godfather and said he had 3 sons

Penny was Fredo, the bumbling one not ready to be the man but still capable enough to make 3 playoff runs and an NBA finals with

Kobe was Sonny, the biggest and strongest and there at shaq's side at the height of his powers, but filled with anger, ego-mania and an instense desire to be impulsive, selfish and destroy what made the dynasty great

Wade was Michael, the lil bother with the calculating mind who was the greates of them all b/c he created a great reputation and took over for Shaq as he aged

That was great thru '07

Then shaq failed with LeBron and joined the C's (where the Godfathe rjust died in garden)

Kobe won two more titles and wasn't pumped full of lead like Sonny (or driven to obscurity as it looked he would be during '06/'07 seasons... instead he was gift-wrapped Gasol)


Great stuff tho

In Response to Re: Celtics, Most Talented Team in the League:

In Response to Re: Celtics, Most Talented Team in the League:

There are some really dumb posts on this board, reinventing the role of Shaq and Kobe when they won 3 titles together. Anyone who watched the Lakers knows that the triangle is center-driven. Kobe and the entire team deferred to Shaq based on the system that was in place and the insistence of Phil Jackson. Would the Lakers have won 5 titles without Phil Jackson? NO!

In one series alone, Kobe destroyed the Spurs. His speed and power to the basket were extraordinary. Even Shaq was in awe, saying that Kobe was his hero.

What made the 3 Laker titles a coach's achievement is the Lakers won with 2 superstars and inferior role players minus Robert Horry. Had Kobe not been arrested for rape and Karl Malone and Rick Fox not gotten injured, the Lakers would have won a 4th title.

Try having Smush Parker, Kwame Brown, Luke Walton, Slava Medvedenko, and Sasha Vujacic as your team! You wouldn't win squat. Getting those Lakers to the playoffs was a signifixcant achievement. As for Gasol, he learned to man-up by learning to play alongside the Assassin.