Championship
posted at 2/18/2013 7:03 PM EST
IMO. With the trade deadline approaching there is only one question that should be asked. Can this team win a championship this year? Simple. If they think so go out and try to improve whatever way you can. If they don't then trade KG and Pierce while they still have value and can give us some nice young pieces in return.
The NBA is a business.........No player(s) is bigger than the organization.
The worst thing for Danny to do is nothing.
Re: Championship
posted at 2/18/2013 7:04 PM EST
In response to celtic213's comment:
IMO. With the trade deadline approaching there is only one question that should be asked. Can this team win a championship this year? Simple. If they think so go out and try to improve whatever way you can. If they don't then trade KG and Pierce while they still have value and can give us some nice young pieces in return.
The NBA is a business.........No player(s) is bigger than the organization.
The worst thing for Danny to do is nothing.
Re: Championship
posted at 2/18/2013 7:09 PM EST
In response to celtic213's comment:
IMO. With the trade deadline approaching there is only one question that should be asked. Can this team win a championship this year? Simple. If they think so go out and try to improve whatever way you can. If they don't then trade KG and Pierce while they still have value and can give us some nice young pieces in return.
The NBA is a business.........No player(s) is bigger than the organization.
The worst thing for Danny to do is nothing.
Agree! As presently constructed the C's would struggle against the Heat and or Knicks in a 7-game series!
If RR and Sully were healthy my view would be different.
DA should make a major move, versus taking the risk of losing KG and PP, for little to no compensation, this summer!
Re: Championship
posted at 2/18/2013 7:17 PM EST
In response to BCSP's comment:
In response to celtic213's comment:
IMO. With the trade deadline approaching there is only one question that should be asked. Can this team win a championship this year? Simple. If they think so go out and try to improve whatever way you can. If they don't then trade KG and Pierce while they still have value and can give us some nice young pieces in return.
The NBA is a business.........No player(s) is bigger than the organization.
The worst thing for Danny to do is nothing.
Agree! As presently constructed the C's would struggle against the Heat and or Knicks in a 7-game series!
If RR and Sully were healthy my view would be different.
DA should make a major move, versus taking the risk of losing KG and PP, for little to no compensation, this summer!
Re: Championship
posted at 2/18/2013 8:28 PM EST
I started a thread where I argued for the opposite at great length. I'll sum up my thoughts from that post in one line: don't take 20 steps back to go one step forward; just take the step forward.
The Celtics were a healthy Kendrick Perkins away from winning the 2010 Finals. The Celtics were a healthy Avery Bradley and Jeff Green away from winning last year's title. The Celtics are a quality big away from winning this year's title. Don't get rid of the second and third bananas that every championhip-caliber team needs (that would be Garnett and Pierce) out of the mistaken notion that bottoming out and drafting high for several years somehow gets you closer to a championship than adding onto what you already have and/or manuevering the free agent market astutely. Not one recent NBA champion has been built primarily through the draft. It's been all about free agency and pouncing on established elite talent on bad teams.
For every Oklahoma City that bottoms out and eventually competes at a high level (and the Thunder haven't won anything yet), there are five Charlottes who seemingly never climb back to respectability. You can say that Oklahoma City has a better GM, and that's true, to an extent. But there's also a lot of luck involved. We know all too well that bad seasons don't necessarily lead to top draft picks and that top draft picks don't always produce elite players. In fact, if we look back at recent Celtic history, the team has had greater success with guys taken 10th or later than with those selected in the top 9. Again, that's not all about incompetence. The draft is an inexact science.
The Celtics have the second and third pieces for a championship (Garnett and Pierce). They have the role players for a championship (Green, Lee, and Terry). They have the young up-and-comers for a championship (Bradley and next year Sullinger). They're lacking an impact center, and to a lesser extent, a scorer. They should be able to package Rondo, Bass, and a bunch of future draft picks into that elite center. That's a much closer route to a championship than blowing everything up, starting from the beginning, wasting Jeff Green's prime, wasting Avery Bradley's ascendance, wasting the heart and soul of Garnett and Pierce (who are still very good players in their own right), and repeating the M.L Carr years.
There's a time and a place for starting over and rebuilding. That's when you're truly mediocre without much of anything. But that's not how the Celtics are presently constituted. They're one obtainable piece away from making Banner 18 not just feasible in the near term, but probable.
Re: Championship
posted at 2/18/2013 8:48 PM EST
In response to davidap's comment:
I started a thread where I argued for the opposite at great length. I'll sum up my thoughts from that post in one line: don't take 20 steps back to go one step forward; just take the step forward.
The Celtics were a healthy Kendrick Perkins away from winning the 2010 Finals. The Celtics were a healthy Avery Bradley and Jeff Green away from winning last year's title. The Celtics are a quality big away from winning this year's title. Don't get rid of the second and third bananas that every championhip-caliber team needs (that would be Garnett and Pierce) out of the mistaken notion that bottoming out and drafting high for several years somehow gets you closer to a championship than adding onto what you already have and/or manuevering the free agent market astutely. Not one recent NBA champion has been built primarily through the draft. It's been all about free agency and pouncing on established elite talent on bad teams.
For every Oklahoma City that bottoms out and eventually competes at a high level (and the Thunder haven't won anything yet), there are five Charlottes who seemingly never climb back to respectability. You can say that Oklahoma City has a better GM, and that's true, to an extent. But there's also a lot of luck involved. We know all too well that bad seasons don't necessarily lead to top draft picks and that top draft picks don't always produce elite players. In fact, if we look back at recent Celtic history, the team has had greater success with guys taken 10th or later than with those selected in the top 9. Again, that's not all about incompetence. The draft is an inexact science.
The Celtics have the second and third pieces for a championship (Garnett and Pierce). They have the role players for a championship (Green, Lee, and Terry). They have the young up-and-comers for a championship (Bradley and next year Sullinger). They're lacking an impact center, and to a lesser extent, a scorer. They should be able to package Rondo, Bass, and a bunch of future draft picks into that elite center. That's a much closer route to a championship than blowing everything up, starting from the beginning, wasting Jeff Green's prime, wasting Avery Bradley's ascendance, wasting the heart and soul of Garnett and Pierce (who are still very good players in their own right), and repeating the M.L Carr years.
There's a time and a place for starting over and rebuilding. That's when you're truly mediocre without much of anything. But that's not how the Celtics are presently constituted. They're one obtainable piece away from making Banner 18 not just feasible in the near term, but probable.
Re: Championship
posted at 2/18/2013 8:49 PM EST
In response to davidap's comment:
I started a thread where I argued for the opposite at great length. I'll sum up my thoughts from that post in one line: don't take 20 steps back to go one step forward; just take the step forward.
The Celtics were a healthy Kendrick Perkins away from winning the 2010 Finals. The Celtics were a healthy Avery Bradley and Jeff Green away from winning last year's title. The Celtics are a quality big away from winning this year's title. Don't get rid of the second and third bananas that every championhip-caliber team needs (that would be Garnett and Pierce) out of the mistaken notion that bottoming out and drafting high for several years somehow gets you closer to a championship than adding onto what you already have and/or manuevering the free agent market astutely. Not one recent NBA champion has been built primarily through the draft. It's been all about free agency and pouncing on established elite talent on bad teams.
For every Oklahoma City that bottoms out and eventually competes at a high level (and the Thunder haven't won anything yet), there are five Charlottes who seemingly never climb back to respectability. You can say that Oklahoma City has a better GM, and that's true, to an extent. But there's also a lot of luck involved. We know all too well that bad seasons don't necessarily lead to top draft picks and that top draft picks don't always produce elite players. In fact, if we look back at recent Celtic history, the team has had greater success with guys taken 10th or later than with those selected in the top 9. Again, that's not all about incompetence. The draft is an inexact science.
The Celtics have the second and third pieces for a championship (Garnett and Pierce). They have the role players for a championship (Green, Lee, and Terry). They have the young up-and-comers for a championship (Bradley and next year Sullinger). They're lacking an impact center, and to a lesser extent, a scorer. They should be able to package Rondo, Bass, and a bunch of future draft picks into that elite center. That's a much closer route to a championship than blowing everything up, starting from the beginning, wasting Jeff Green's prime, wasting Avery Bradley's ascendance, wasting the heart and soul of Garnett and Pierce (who are still very good players in their own right), and repeating the M.L Carr years.
There's a time and a place for starting over and rebuilding. That's when you're truly mediocre without much of anything. But that's not how the Celtics are presently constituted. They're one obtainable piece away from making Banner 18 not just feasible in the near term, but probable.
If KG and PP were in their early 30s I would agree with you, but they are not. They are 1 or 2 years away from retirement!
So to your point, why should the C's take 2-steps back to simply win a series or two in the playoffs this year?
The C's could shave years off of their rebuilding process by acquiring Bledsoe, other young players, and draft picks now, for KG and PP, versus getting nothing in return this summer.
It is highly likely the Cs will exercise the team option on PP this summer, which could result in KGs retirement!
Who wants to wait another 22-years to rebuild?
Re: Championship
posted at 2/18/2013 8:53 PM EST
In response to celtic213's comment:
IMO. With the trade deadline approaching there is only one question that should be asked. Can this team win a championship this year? Simple. If they think so go out and try to improve whatever way you can. If they don't then trade KG and Pierce while they still have value and can give us some nice young pieces in return.
The NBA is a business.........No player(s) is bigger than the organization.
The worst thing for Danny to do is nothing.
Re: Championship
posted at 2/18/2013 8:55 PM EST
If KG and PP were in their early 30s I would agree with you, but they are not. They are 1 or 2 years away from retirement!
So to your point, why should the C's take 2-steps back to simply win a series or two in the playoffs this year?
The C's could shave years off of their rebuilding process by acquiring Bledsoe, other young players, and draft picks now, for KG and PP, versus getting nothing in return this summer.
It is highly likely the Cs will exercise their team option on PP this summer, which could result in KGs retirement!
22-years is a long time to wait to rebuild!
[/QUOTE]
+1 agree 100%. It's about winning. If you don't think KG and Pierce can win now then you have to let them go for the rebuilding process start off and with bledsoe and jordan thatd be a good way to start. People forget how long those 22 years were!
Re: Championship
posted at 2/18/2013 8:56 PM EST
In response to BCSP's comment:
In response to celtic213's comment:
IMO. With the trade deadline approaching there is only one question that should be asked. Can this team win a championship this year? Simple. If they think so go out and try to improve whatever way you can. If they don't then trade KG and Pierce while they still have value and can give us some nice young pieces in return.
The NBA is a business.........No player(s) is bigger than the organization.
The worst thing for Danny to do is nothing.
The Celts can not trade KG.He has a non trade on his contract.
Agree! As presently constructed the C's would struggle against the Heat and or Knicks in a 7-game series!
If RR and Sully were healthy my view would be different.
DA should make a major move, versus taking the risk of losing KG and PP, for little to no compensation, this summer!
Re: Championship
posted at 2/18/2013 8:59 PM EST
In response to debrit's comment:
In response to BCSP's comment:
In response to celtic213's comment:
IMO. With the trade deadline approaching there is only one question that should be asked. Can this team win a championship this year? Simple. If they think so go out and try to improve whatever way you can. If they don't then trade KG and Pierce while they still have value and can give us some nice young pieces in return.
The NBA is a business.........No player(s) is bigger than the organization.
The worst thing for Danny to do is nothing.
The Celts can not trade KG.He has a non trade on his contract.
Agree! As presently constructed the C's would struggle against the Heat and or Knicks in a 7-game series!
If RR and Sully were healthy my view would be different.
DA should make a major move, versus taking the risk of losing KG and PP, for little to no compensation, this summer!
Re: Championship
posted at 2/18/2013 8:59 PM EST
In response to debrit's comment:
In response to BCSP's comment:
In response to celtic213's comment:
IMO. With the trade deadline approaching there is only one question that should be asked. Can this team win a championship this year? Simple. If they think so go out and try to improve whatever way you can. If they don't then trade KG and Pierce while they still have value and can give us some nice young pieces in return.
The NBA is a business.........No player(s) is bigger than the organization.
The worst thing for Danny to do is nothing.
The Celts can not trade KG.He has a non trade on his contract.
Agree! As presently constructed the C's would struggle against the Heat and or Knicks in a 7-game series!
If RR and Sully were healthy my view would be different.
DA should make a major move, versus taking the risk of losing KG and PP, for little to no compensation, this summer!
Re: Championship
posted at 2/18/2013 9:00 PM EST
Are you aware that Danny cannot trade KG?unless he gives the OK?
Re: Championship
posted at 2/18/2013 9:02 PM EST
In response to debrit's comment:
Are you aware that Danny cannot trade KG?unless he gives the OK?
Re: Championship
posted at 2/18/2013 9:07 PM EST
It's a domino effect. KG already said he wont waive his no trade clause unless PP is gone. Meaning its either trade both or keep both. So you either keep them hoping you can win a championship THIS year (because they might retire at the end of this season) or you trade both and better the future of the Celtics. This team is the 7th seed its not like there the 2nd or 3rd seed. They havent shown anything that hints at a championship run. Trade them and make sure we dont go through another 22 years of hell. The Celtics as an organization are bigger than any one man.
Re: Championship
posted at 2/18/2013 9:11 PM EST
In response to davidap's comment:
I started a thread where I argued for the opposite at great length. I'll sum up my thoughts from that post in one line: don't take 20 steps back to go one step forward; just take the step forward.
The Celtics were a healthy Kendrick Perkins away from winning the 2010 Finals. The Celtics were a healthy Avery Bradley and Jeff Green away from winning last year's title. The Celtics are a quality big away from winning this year's title. Don't get rid of the second and third bananas that every championhip-caliber team needs (that would be Garnett and Pierce) out of the mistaken notion that bottoming out and drafting high for several years somehow gets you closer to a championship than adding onto what you already have and/or manuevering the free agent market astutely. Not one recent NBA champion has been built primarily through the draft. It's been all about free agency and pouncing on established elite talent on bad teams.
For every Oklahoma City that bottoms out and eventually competes at a high level (and the Thunder haven't won anything yet), there are five Charlottes who seemingly never climb back to respectability. You can say that Oklahoma City has a better GM, and that's true, to an extent. But there's also a lot of luck involved. We know all too well that bad seasons don't necessarily lead to top draft picks and that top draft picks don't always produce elite players. In fact, if we look back at recent Celtic history, the team has had greater success with guys taken 10th or later than with those selected in the top 9. Again, that's not all about incompetence. The draft is an inexact science.
The Celtics have the second and third pieces for a championship (Garnett and Pierce). They have the role players for a championship (Green, Lee, and Terry). They have the young up-and-comers for a championship (Bradley and next year Sullinger). They're lacking an impact center, and to a lesser extent, a scorer. They should be able to package Rondo, Bass, and a bunch of future draft picks into that elite center. That's a much closer route to a championship than blowing everything up, starting from the beginning, wasting Jeff Green's prime, wasting Avery Bradley's ascendance, wasting the heart and soul of Garnett and Pierce (who are still very good players in their own right), and repeating the M.L Carr years.
There's a time and a place for starting over and rebuilding. That's when you're truly mediocre without much of anything. But that's not how the Celtics are presently constituted. They're one obtainable piece away from making Banner 18 not just feasible in the near term, but probable.
The Celtics performance since Rondo went down has changed my mind. I was once in favor of blowing it up, but I think you're right - add the right pieces and there's no reason the Celtics can't win it all this season. Besides, the injury bug is going to visit every other team before the season is done, and how many of these teams have the toughness to mentally overcome the way the Celtics have ?
Unless it's an overwhelmingly lopsided deal in favor of the Celtics, I hope the Celtics keep Pierce and KG and they give us all another thrilling playoff run.
Re: Championship
posted at 2/18/2013 9:23 PM EST
+1 agree 100%. It's about winning. If you don't think KG and Pierce can win now then you have to let them go for the rebuilding process start off and with bledsoe and jordan thatd be a good way to start. People forget how long those 22 years were!
If the rationale is that retaining Pierce and Garnett will make the Celtics good enough to win one playoff series, but not good enough to legitimately compete for a championship, and that by trading them away for other assets you get closer to returning to a championship level, then why would you want to trade two guys who are good enough to win one playoff series but not good enough to win a championship for two other guys who are good enough to win one playoff series but not good enough to win a championhip? That sounds like change for the sake of change.
Bledsoe and Jordan are not championship-caliber players. I'm not sure they'll ever be at that level. But they are good enough to ensure that the Celtics won't be a lottery team. They might even be good enough to win a playoff round this year. How exactly does that help at all? The Celtics don't win a title. They don't clear cap space. They don't improve their draft position. If anything, they're worse off in a sense because now they don't have the same long-term flexibility as they do with older players nearing retirement. They also don't have the veteran name recognition and respect to help recruit other players.
Either go all-out to win or go all-out to lose. Being in the middle is the absolute worst case scenario and that's what a Garnett for Bledsoe and Jordan trade would accomplish. You'd be guaranteeing a string of 7th and 8th place finishes.
Trade Rondo, Bass, and a bunch of unprotected first round draft picks to the Lakers for Howard. That's the solution. Consider something similar (minus the boatload of picks) for a Gortat or Jefferson. Add, don't subtract. Bledsoe and Jordan aren't anything special.
Re: Championship
posted at 2/18/2013 9:35 PM EST
In response to davidap's comment:
+1 agree 100%. It's about winning. If you don't think KG and Pierce can win now then you have to let them go for the rebuilding process start off and with bledsoe and jordan thatd be a good way to start. People forget how long those 22 years were!
If the rationale is that retaining Pierce and Garnett will make the Celtics good enough to win one playoff series, but not good enough to legitimately compete for a championship, and that by trading them away for other assets you get closer to returning to a championship level, then why would you want to trade two guys who are good enough to win one playoff series but not good enough to win a championship for two other guys who are good enough to win one playoff series but not good enough to win a championhip? That sounds like change for the sake of change.
Bledsoe and Jordan are not championship-caliber players. I'm not sure they'll ever be at that level. But they are good enough to ensure that the Celtics won't be a lottery team. They might even be good enough to win a playoff round this year. How exactly does that help at all? The Celtics don't win a title. They don't clear cap space. They don't improve their draft position. If anything, they're worse off in a sense because now they don't have the same long-term flexibility as they do with older players nearing retirement.
Either go all-out to win or go all-out to lose. Being in the middle is the absolute worst case scenario and that's what a Garnett for Bledsoe and Jordan trade would accomplish. You'd be guaranteeing a string of 7th and 8th place finishes.
Trade Rondo, Bass, and a bunch of unprotected first round draft picks to the Lakers for Howard. That's the solution. Consider something similar (minus the boatload of picks) for a Gortat or Jefferson. Add, don't subtract. Bledsoe and Jordan aren't anything special.
Question, do you think the C's will pay PP 15+ million next year, or exercise the team option on him? If the C's exercises the team option on PP what do you think he will do?
Another question, if KG sees PP leave to test free agency what do you think he will do? Stay and be a part of a lengthy rebuild? OR retire?
In addition a trade for Bledsoe, give the C's the possibility to trade RR the following year, when he is fully health with an expiring contract! This scenario would likely result in another good young player and draft picks!
The key here is to expedite the rebuild process!
Re: Championship
posted at 2/18/2013 9:35 PM EST
In response to davidap's comment:
+1 agree 100%. It's about winning. If you don't think KG and Pierce can win now then you have to let them go for the rebuilding process start off and with bledsoe and jordan thatd be a good way to start. People forget how long those 22 years were!
If the rationale is that retaining Pierce and Garnett will make the Celtics good enough to win one playoff series, but not good enough to legitimately compete for a championship, and that by trading them away for other assets you get closer to returning to a championship level, then why would you want to trade two guys who are good enough to win one playoff series but not good enough to win a championship for two other guys who are good enough to win one playoff series but not good enough to win a championhip? That sounds like change for the sake of change.
Bledsoe and Jordan are not championship-caliber players. I'm not sure they'll ever be at that level. But they are good enough to ensure that the Celtics won't be a lottery team. They might even be good enough to win a playoff round this year. How exactly does that help at all?
It helps because like your saying at this stage it KG and Pierce's career Jordan and Bledsoe isnt much of a drop off and that doesnt include whatever we can get for Pierce. So your admitting that even if we made this trade we could still be good enough to win a playoff series right? So the difference is with Bledsoe and Jordan ( and whoever they can get for Pierce) they have 7+ years to continue to build (as players and on the roster as a whole). On the other hand if they keep KG and Pierce they are still a 1 and done team but they only have AT BEST 1 year left.
So the point is KG and Pierce are good enough now to return very good YOUNG players that are good now and can become great in the future. If we keep KG and Pierce we know what we have and thats the 7th seed and not good enough to beat the Heat and they both most likely will be gone after this season.
Re: Championship
posted at 2/18/2013 9:37 PM EST
In response to celtic213's comment:
In response to davidap's comment:
+1 agree 100%. It's about winning. If you don't think KG and Pierce can win now then you have to let them go for the rebuilding process start off and with bledsoe and jordan thatd be a good way to start. People forget how long those 22 years were!
If the rationale is that retaining Pierce and Garnett will make the Celtics good enough to win one playoff series, but not good enough to legitimately compete for a championship, and that by trading them away for other assets you get closer to returning to a championship level, then why would you want to trade two guys who are good enough to win one playoff series but not good enough to win a championship for two other guys who are good enough to win one playoff series but not good enough to win a championhip? That sounds like change for the sake of change.
Bledsoe and Jordan are not championship-caliber players. I'm not sure they'll ever be at that level. But they are good enough to ensure that the Celtics won't be a lottery team. They might even be good enough to win a playoff round this year. How exactly does that help at all?
It helps because like your saying at this stage it KG and Pierce's career Jordan and Bledsoe isnt much of a drop off and that doesnt include whatever we can get for Pierce. So your admitting that even if we made this trade we could still be good enough to win a playoff series right? So the difference is with Bledsoe and Jordan ( and whoever they can get for Pierce) they have 7+ years to continue to build (as players and on the roster as a whole). On the other hand if they keep KG and Pierce they are still a 1 and done team but they only have AT BEST 1 year left.
So the point is KG and Pierce are good enough now to return very good YOUNG players that are good now and can become great in the future. If we keep KG and Pierce we know what we have and thats the 7th seed and not good enough to beat the Heat and they both most likely will be gone after this season.
Re: Championship
posted at 2/18/2013 9:37 PM EST
WojYahooNBA Boston's active on several fronts, including discussions on Josh Smith. Brooklyn is solely focused on making a Smith deal.5 minutes ago · reply · retweet · favorite
Re: Championship
posted at 2/18/2013 9:38 PM EST
In response to Fierce34's comment:
WojYahooNBA Boston's active on several fronts, including discussions on Josh Smith. Brooklyn is solely focused on making a Smith deal.5 minutes ago · reply · retweet · favorite
Re: Championship
posted at 2/18/2013 9:38 PM EST
In response to Fierce34's comment:
WojYahooNBA Boston's active on several fronts, including discussions on Josh Smith. Brooklyn is solely focused on making a Smith deal.5 minutes ago · reply · retweet · favorite
Re: Championship
posted at 2/18/2013 9:44 PM EST
Marc Stein: Latest deadline rumble: Boston exploring its Josh Smith options. The prob: Can't do it w/out Pierce. Just can't see Ainge sending PP to ATL Twitter @ESPNSteinLine
ATLANTA HAWKS, BOSTON CELTICS, PAUL PIERCE, TRADE, JOSH SMITH | SHARE 
Marc Stein: KG ain't waiving no-trade clause to go to ATL. So Celts would have to part with iconic PP to get J-Smoove. So can't happen w/out more teams Twitter @ESPNSteinLine
ATLANTA HAWKS, BOSTON CELTICS, PAUL PIERCE, TRADE, JOSH SMITH | SHARE
Marc Stein: Hawks have convinced numerous teams that Josh Smith will be moved between now and Thursday 3 PM deadline. Question remains where exactly Twitter @ESPNSteinLine
Re: Championship
posted at 2/18/2013 9:47 PM EST
In response to BCSP's comment:
Marc Stein: Latest deadline rumble: Boston exploring its Josh Smith options. The prob: Can't do it w/out Pierce. Just can't see Ainge sending PP to ATL Twitter @ESPNSteinLine
ATLANTA HAWKS, BOSTON CELTICS, PAUL PIERCE, TRADE, JOSH SMITH | SHARE
Marc Stein: KG ain't waiving no-trade clause to go to ATL. So Celts would have to part with iconic PP to get J-Smoove. So can't happen w/out more teams Twitter @ESPNSteinLine
ATLANTA HAWKS, BOSTON CELTICS, PAUL PIERCE, TRADE, JOSH SMITH | SHARE
Marc Stein: Hawks have convinced numerous teams that Josh Smith will be moved between now and Thursday 3 PM deadline. Question remains where exactly Twitter @ESPNSteinLine
