Co-owner Steve Pagliuca on 'fireworks' and Rondo

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Celtsfan4life. Show Celtsfan4life's posts

    Re: Co-owner Steve Pagliuca on 'fireworks' and Rondo

    In response to rameakap's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    If they actually try to win, this team should be better than the one that played .500 ball for the first 20 games or so last year right?

    - Everyone 23-25 should be expected to improve a little, this is Turner, Bradley and Zeller. I'd rather have Zeller than Hump and Turner than the Wallace/Johnson duo that backed Green last year. 

    - Sully and Olynyk should be expected to improve a lot considering Sully is 22 and basically missed his rookie year and Oly has a much better body and despite being 23 is going into his 2nd year (not 5th like AB at the same age) and there is always a big jump there.

    - Faverani should be healthy and he'll be more comfortable in the league, and if he provides slight improvements on last years per 36 #'s in 18 mins, he'll give very good rim protection 6ppg, 5rpg, 1bpg on 50FG/70FT %'s. 

    - I'd rather have Smart than Crawford or Bayless. I think he will be better than either of them as well in terms of overall impact with his D, winning attitude, etc. reflected in +/- numbers. 

    - Green, Rondo and Bass are 28 years old and in the middle of their primes. We should not expect a drop in their play. Rondo should get back to pre-ACL form with hopefully better shooting %'s and defense more like his 2009-2010 self. 

    - Lee is like Thornton, who is a slightly better shooter but not a better player. There was no room for Lee when Rondo came back, and there may be no room for Thornton if Turner, Bradley and Smart get all the SG mins, so this roster spot matters little.

    In the end, there is little chance that this team is worse than last years that won 25. If a rotation is settled on and there are no injuries or a mandate to 'try hard but lose in the end'. They are still not as talented as somewhere between 18-22 other rosters in the league, so in the end tanking may be required to jump from that awful 11-13th pick to 5th-7th pick range with better odds of going top 3. 

     

    [/QUOTE]


    + 1.    Add to your points that the Coach is now going to be better/more experienced and the competition didn't exactly get a lot better in the East.   The C's will tank "less than last year" and we're still stuck in the middle.
      Clips won't tank, either.  So, our best chance at a good draft choice is a terrible Nets team.   

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from mellymel3. Show mellymel3's posts

    Re: Co-owner Steve Pagliuca on 'fireworks' and Rondo

    In response to Celtsfan4life's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to rameakap's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    If they actually try to win, this team should be better than the one that played .500 ball for the first 20 games or so last year right?

    - Everyone 23-25 should be expected to improve a little, this is Turner, Bradley and Zeller. I'd rather have Zeller than Hump and Turner than the Wallace/Johnson duo that backed Green last year. 

    - Sully and Olynyk should be expected to improve a lot considering Sully is 22 and basically missed his rookie year and Oly has a much better body and despite being 23 is going into his 2nd year (not 5th like AB at the same age) and there is always a big jump there.

    - Faverani should be healthy and he'll be more comfortable in the league, and if he provides slight improvements on last years per 36 #'s in 18 mins, he'll give very good rim protection 6ppg, 5rpg, 1bpg on 50FG/70FT %'s. 

    - I'd rather have Smart than Crawford or Bayless. I think he will be better than either of them as well in terms of overall impact with his D, winning attitude, etc. reflected in +/- numbers. 

    - Green, Rondo and Bass are 28 years old and in the middle of their primes. We should not expect a drop in their play. Rondo should get back to pre-ACL form with hopefully better shooting %'s and defense more like his 2009-2010 self. 

    - Lee is like Thornton, who is a slightly better shooter but not a better player. There was no room for Lee when Rondo came back, and there may be no room for Thornton if Turner, Bradley and Smart get all the SG mins, so this roster spot matters little.

    In the end, there is little chance that this team is worse than last years that won 25. If a rotation is settled on and there are no injuries or a mandate to 'try hard but lose in the end'. They are still not as talented as somewhere between 18-22 other rosters in the league, so in the end tanking may be required to jump from that awful 11-13th pick to 5th-7th pick range with better odds of going top 3. 

     

    [/QUOTE]


    + 1.    Add to your points that the Coach is now going to be better/more experienced and the competition didn't exactly get a lot better in the East.   The C's will tank "less than last year" and we're still stuck in the middle.
      Clips won't tank, either.  So, our best chance at a good draft choice is a terrible Nets team.   

    [/QUOTE]

    Nope...like you said in the sentence before, our ONLY good chance to get a great pick is to play to our true level, embrace the suck, and enjoy TANKAPALOOZA DEUCE!!!

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Celtsfan4life. Show Celtsfan4life's posts

    Re: Co-owner Steve Pagliuca on 'fireworks' and Rondo

    In response to CelticGreenLP's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to romneywins' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Don't get your hopes tooooo high for next year.  We are likely tanking but for what?  And what is our chance of getting it if it becomes open?   And can drafting late in the lottery produce what we need, I doubt it.  Players like Rondo, Green, Turner, Sullinger, and whoever will need to turn into diamonds.  It might just happen stay tuned for many years, mabey 20 or so?

    [/QUOTE]

    Jahlil Okafor

    Karl Towns

    Cliff Alexander

    if we miss out on a big, Stanley Johnson is going to be a Jabari Parker level SF prospect who will be in the 4-6 range. He would be my first choice actually.

    And I agree that winning 20-28 games and getting a top 8 or so pick would be more productive and valuable than winning 35 games, getting a weak draft position, and getting blown out in the first round of the playoffs. 

    [/QUOTE]

    I don't agree.   Learning to win is important.  Not being a constant loser is important.   "Show me a good loser and I'll show you a loser"....I think it was Red Auerbach who said it.

    We need to teach our guys that winning is not only fun, but the result of good hard work.   Tanking teaches them NOTHING!    It doesn't team them to be hungry, to work hard, to stay motivated, etc..   Essentially, losing does not prepare your team for the future and just makes you hope for some savior in the lottery and we all see how well that worked for ML Carr and Pitino!

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Celtsfan4life. Show Celtsfan4life's posts

    Re: Co-owner Steve Pagliuca on 'fireworks' and Rondo

    One last point:   Losing doesn't attract good free agents.   Being an 8th or 7th seed team who can move to a 2 or 3 seed with 2 good free agents........THAT is something you can sell to free agents.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Re: Co-owner Steve Pagliuca on 'fireworks' and Rondo

    In response to Celtsfan4life's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    One last point:   Losing doesn't attract good free agents.   Being an 8th or 7th seed team who can move to a 2 or 3 seed with 2 good free agents........THAT is something you can sell to free agents.

    [/QUOTE]


    Very good point

    Gasol in '15 and Durant in '16? That is the pipe dream;-)

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from FierceBrand. Show FierceBrand's posts

    Re: Co-owner Steve Pagliuca on 'fireworks' and Rondo

    In response to rameakap's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Very good point

    Gasol in '15 and Durant in '16? That is the pipe dream;-)

    [/QUOTE]

    Of course it is!

    Pure fantasy even!

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: Co-owner Steve Pagliuca on 'fireworks' and Rondo

    In response to Celtsfan4life's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    One last point:   Losing doesn't attract good free agents.   Being an 8th or 7th seed team who can move to a 2 or 3 seed with 2 good free agents........THAT is something you can sell to free agents.

    [/QUOTE]

    This^

    When the goal will be to attract free agents in next year's pool of talent or gobble up some disgruntled vet this season who's forcing a trade, you want to create a nice landing place for him.  The time for tanking might be over, many of our #1 draft picks aren't even our own to determine where we'll pick, we'll need other teams to lose.

     

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from FierceBrand. Show FierceBrand's posts

    Re: Co-owner Steve Pagliuca on 'fireworks' and Rondo

    In response to rameakap's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to JamezHill's comment:
    [QUOTE]


    You cant tank with a Rondo, Green, Sullinger on your team. These guys are too good. Sullinger and Green are going to open a lot of eyes this season.

    [/QUOTE]

    Last years team was a mediocre 35 win club that was the Bass/Lee for Asik trade away from maybe taking the Atlantic from Toronto. Had the offer to the Rockets been Bass, Crawford, Bogans, Faverani and the Clippers 1st rd pick in 2015, for Asik and Lin, instead of Lee's 2 years left, perhaps the Rockets would have bitten.

    C- Asik, Olynyk

    PF - Sully, Hump

    SF - Green, Wallace (still needed surgery/replacement)

    SG - Bradley, Lee

    PG - Rondo, Lin

    Obviously it was not better for this teams future to be a 1st/2nd rd 40-45 win team. Danny made the Lee for Bayless swap, trading a glue guy meant to be on a winner for a gunner with bad D and +/- PER #'s who is always on losers. Then Faverani and Wallace, the tough guys, both got hurt.

    There was a mandate to tank the last 50 games or so last season. It was 'play hard but lose in the end'. 

    Is that going to be the case this year?

    [/QUOTE]

    Confirms what some of us said last season.

    Now you understand why some of us never believed the Celts would win 30 games last season.

    A lot of us knew Ainge would be tanking.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Re: Co-owner Steve Pagliuca on 'fireworks' and Rondo

    In response to FierceBrand's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to rameakap's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to JamezHill's comment:
    [QUOTE]


    You cant tank with a Rondo, Green, Sullinger on your team. These guys are too good. Sullinger and Green are going to open a lot of eyes this season.

    [/QUOTE]

    Last years team was a mediocre 35 win club that was the Bass/Lee for Asik trade away from maybe taking the Atlantic from Toronto. Had the offer to the Rockets been Bass, Crawford, Bogans, Faverani and the Clippers 1st rd pick in 2015, for Asik and Lin, instead of Lee's 2 years left, perhaps the Rockets would have bitten.

    C- Asik, Olynyk

    PF - Sully, Hump

    SF - Green, Wallace (still needed surgery/replacement)

    SG - Bradley, Lee

    PG - Rondo, Lin

    Obviously it was not better for this teams future to be a 1st/2nd rd 40-45 win team. Danny made the Lee for Bayless swap, trading a glue guy meant to be on a winner for a gunner with bad D and +/- PER #'s who is always on losers. Then Faverani and Wallace, the tough guys, both got hurt.

    There was a mandate to tank the last 50 games or so last season. It was 'play hard but lose in the end'. 

    Is that going to be the case this year?

    [/QUOTE]

    Confirms what some of us said last season.

    Now you understand why some of us never believed the Celts would win 30 games last season.

    A lot of us knew Ainge would be tanking.

    [/QUOTE]


    Which is also why it was 100% acceptable to say last years team had more talent than the 36 win team Pitino led as a rookie coach in '98, and you'd be a fool to think last years Celtics were incapable of winning 30 games. The only things that kept them from that was Danny's moves and tanking, not talent.

    I predicted 28-32 wins based on when Rondo actually returned (a month after he could have) and what trades Danny pulled off (it was ones that made us worse, not better). So they won 25 games and gave up like 18 4th quarter leads and also saw their only true center go down for the year with injury.

    Called the season pretty much spot on.

     

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Re: Co-owner Steve Pagliuca on 'fireworks' and Rondo

    You and 'others' didn't need to 'confirm' anything to me.


    I understood then like I understand now that tanking is and was the most logical step for them. It is just that sometimes talent keeps that from being possible.


    When Danny saw a 35-40 win club emerging he made a trade offer for Asik, was rejected, and so instead of making moves to be a fiesty 45 win playoff club he made a trade that weakened the team and held Rondo out a month longer than he needed to. 


    I conservatively said 36 wins, after saying if Danny goes the Asik route they win 42-44 and if he goes the hold Rondo out trade away vets/make us worse route we win 28-32. 


    Nothing wrong there. Anyone who thinks last years team didn't have the talent to win 30 games remains foolish in my book.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from mellymel3. Show mellymel3's posts

    Re: Co-owner Steve Pagliuca on 'fireworks' and Rondo

    In response to Celtsfan4life's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    One last point:   Losing doesn't attract good free agents.   Being an 8th or 7th seed team who can move to a 2 or 3 seed with 2 good free agents........THAT is something you can sell to free agents.

    [/QUOTE]

    Oh yeah, that's ALWAYS worked for the C's....and all those FA's our "stars" like Rondon't and Mr. Green Jeans have attracted here the last two years (PFFFFTTTTTTTTTTT!!!)...and don't forget all that warm weather here in the winter...or all those young chickiedoos running around in bikinis in February! Boston - an absolute magnet for young NBA superstars with nothing but free time money to spend and golf clubs with which to hit a few balls.

    OHMYGAWWDDDDIFORGOT!!.....Green had a SUPER playoff performance while we lost to the lowly Knicks two seasons ago...that ancient history should draw FA's like flies, right!?

    BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from FierceBrand. Show FierceBrand's posts

    Re: Co-owner Steve Pagliuca on 'fireworks' and Rondo

    In response to rameakap's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    You and 'others' didn't need to 'confirm' anything to me.

     

    I understood then like I understand now that tanking is and was the most logical step for them. It is just that sometimes talent keeps that from being possible.

     

    When Danny saw a 35-40 win club emerging he made a trade offer for Asik, was rejected, and so instead of making moves to be a fiesty 45 win playoff club he made a trade that weakened the team and held Rondo out a month longer than he needed to. 

     

    I conservatively said 36 wins, after saying if Danny goes the Asik route they win 42-44 and if he goes the hold Rondo out trade away vets/make us worse route we win 28-32. 

     

    Nothing wrong there. Anyone who thinks last years team didn't have the talent to win 30 games remains foolish in my book.

    [/QUOTE]

    Like I said, that's your opinion.

    Let's stick to the facts.

    The majority here believed Celts will not win 30 games last season, for whatever reason.

     

    Your book doesn't count because that's just your opinion.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from FierceBrand. Show FierceBrand's posts

    Re: Co-owner Steve Pagliuca on 'fireworks' and Rondo

    rame

    It's best if you stop lying because all of us here saw you post 37 wins.

    Just because you deleted it, that doesn't the people here already forgot.

     

    You clearly said Brad Stevens' team last season is way better than Rick Pitino's Celtics of 1998.

    That's why you said 37 wins.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Re: Co-owner Steve Pagliuca on 'fireworks' and Rondo

    In response to FierceBrand's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    rame

    It's best if you stop lying because all of us here saw you post 37 wins.

    Just because you deleted it, that doesn't the people here already forgot.

     

    You clearly said Brad Stevens' team last season is way better than Rick Pitino's Celtics of 1998.

    That's why you said 37 wins.

    [/QUOTE]


    I have never lied.

    I said 37 wins if Ainge made a small trade to improve the team and Rondo returned by Christmas. I said 28-32 if Ainge made a trade that weakened the team and Rondo was held out into Jan/Feb. Which is what happened.

    Your prediction of 18-19 wins was witnessed by many here before you were banned and it was lost to the world of deleted. That was after the Nets trade, then later you claimed more wins. 

    I only deleted posts to make a outdated thread you kept posting childish drivel in appear to be an even more worthless waste of everyone's time than it already was, and the board agreed, nobody posted in it except a few who mocked YOU for being a despicable loser and BDC kept deleting your trash before BANNING you.

    I dd a solid job in predicting the way the season would go and had nothing to hide when I deleted my old posts. You lost in the end as you always do. 

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from FierceBrand. Show FierceBrand's posts

    Re: Co-owner Steve Pagliuca on 'fireworks' and Rondo

    In response to rameakap's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I have never lied.

    I said 37 wins if Ainge made a small trade to improve the team and Rondo returned by Christmas. I said 28-32 if Ainge made a trade that weakened the team and Rondo was held out into Jan/Feb. Which is what happened.

    Your prediction of 18-19 wins was witnessed by many here before you were banned and it was lost to the world of deleted. That was after the Nets trade, then later you claimed more wins. 

    I only deleted posts to make a outdated thread you kept posting childish drivel in appear to be an even more worthless waste of everyone's time than it already was, and the board agreed, nobody posted in it except a few who mocked YOU for being a despicable loser and BDC kept deleting your trash before BANNING you.

    I dd a solid job in predicting the way the season would go and had nothing to hide when I deleted my old posts. You lost in the end as you always do. 

    [/QUOTE]

    If you're going to make allegations, make sure you can prove it!

    I never said anything about the Celtics only winning 18-19 games.

    While my posts were deleted, Karl's posts was not and he replied to my post.

    Here:

    http://www.boston.com/community/forums/sports/celtics/on-the-front-burner/celts-will-be-a-solid-better-team-this-year/100/6753540?page=2

    Re: Celts will be a solid better team this year
    posted at 7/29/2013 7:44 AM EDT

    Karllost
    Posts: 5903
    First: 2/19/2009
    Last: 7/22/2014
    In response to Fierce34's comment:

    I think the Celts will win 5 games in Nov, 5 in Dec, 5 in Jan, 3 in Feb, 5 in March, and 3 in April.

    More or less 26 wins.

    Worst case 23 wins.

    Best case 29 wins.

     

    You got problems... It's ridiculous to evaluate the schedule 9 months into the future. Team rosters arent even formed completely, so many unknowns including your flip/flopping new love for Rondo..LOL./.. Dont you wanna see how effective he is?? Doesnt that make any difference in your forecast for the Celtics as a team??
    What a phony you are..anything for attention. Keep ur profile PRIVATE

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

     

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from FierceBrand. Show FierceBrand's posts

    Re: Co-owner Steve Pagliuca on 'fireworks' and Rondo

    I dd a solid job in predicting the way the season would go and had nothing to hide when I deleted my old posts. You lost in the end as you always do.

     

    That's contradicting yourself because if you don't need to hide anything, why edit and delete your posts?

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from seawolfxs. Show seawolfxs's posts

    Re: Co-owner Steve Pagliuca on 'fireworks' and Rondo

    It seems the good teams have one top player, and a few good players with holes


    The east is wide open, Indie is questionable with what happened and who they lost, Miami will fade,


    Chicago I don't like and even less if Rose comes back, Clevelnad maybe if they get Love, but then they still would have defensive problems,the Knicks will be better, but even with Jax I don't see it, Melo is the last superstar I would want. that leaves Totonto as the team I see coming out of the East. The east has so few good teams the celtics will get more wins than last 


     


    The West has an aging SA, Houston with another superstar I wouldn't want and then two teams The Clips with 2 elite players and SF could be the Wests entry. again really not great teams that will build a dynasty, 


    in the end I see the most balanced or rather mediocre league in some time. Too much based on threes and wings


    with the number of teams and so few great players coming out each year, the college game being bleeded. By the one and done, and then so many kids who languish on the bench, it is near impossible  for any team to build effectively. The best chance for any team would be superstars banding together to go to a team. and then they will be a little old and always have depth problems


    So. dA has done a great job collecting future chips, has some young talent that could be very good secondary stars,


    We have one superstar that has had one glaring weakness. Is there one superstar that would come to Boston to play with him? Doubtful. In 2015 it is more probable that rondo would be one to band with another Superstar and leave.If he stays? I agree with him becoming a PP icon type , staying for the next generation for a championship


    All this to say that I cannot get on DA if the futures picks he has do not line up with great talent and produce a great dynasty type team. the cavs have had 3 league number one picks and now James, and they don't look to win it. 


    Danny has just given us a good chance,better than most, I wouldn't want to be the Lakers, but that is all. this league is just spread too thin and the talent gets into the league way too soon to properly develop into really good players and teams


    Getting the last big three here plus rondo was a stroke of luck, and then we should have won another except for an injury, cannot forget how bad Kobe was


     IMOIMO


     


     


    Pat's Fan lost in Jet Land

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from CelticGreenLP. Show CelticGreenLP's posts

    Re: Co-owner Steve Pagliuca on 'fireworks' and Rondo

    In response to Celtsfan4life's comment:


    In response to CelticGreenLP's comment:
    [QUOTE]


    In response to romneywins' comment:
    [QUOTE]


    Don't get your hopes tooooo high for next year.  We are likely tanking but for what?  And what is our chance of getting it if it becomes open?   And can drafting late in the lottery produce what we need, I doubt it.  Players like Rondo, Green, Turner, Sullinger, and whoever will need to turn into diamonds.  It might just happen stay tuned for many years, mabey 20 or so?




    Jahlil Okafor


    Karl Towns


    Cliff Alexander


    if we miss out on a big, Stanley Johnson is going to be a Jabari Parker level SF prospect who will be in the 4-6 range. He would be my first choice actually.


    And I agree that winning 20-28 games and getting a top 8 or so pick would be more productive and valuable than winning 35 games, getting a weak draft position, and getting blown out in the first round of the playoffs. 


    [/QUOTE]

    I don't agree.   Learning to win is important.  Not being a constant loser is important.   "Show me a good loser and I'll show you a loser"....I think it was Red Auerbach who said it.


    We need to teach our guys that winning is not only fun, but the result of good hard work.   Tanking teaches them NOTHING!    It doesn't team them to be hungry, to work hard, to stay motivated, etc..   Essentially, losing does not prepare your team for the future and just makes you hope for some savior in the lottery and we all see how well that worked for ML Carr and Pitino!


    [/QUOTE]
    Your assertion that losing begets "losers" is completely false and baseless. There are literally hundreds of players that played for lottery teams that ended up also playing for championship teams. In fact most top flight players in the NBA are drafted by terrible teams and have to live through a couple more bad years before those teams become perennial winners, or they end up on winning teams.


    Pierce, Garnett, and Allen were on ALOT of terrible teams (including teams that blatantly tanked) before they won #17.  It didn't magically turn them into "losers", did it??


    Red also oversaw the biggest and most blatant tank job the Celtics have ever been a part of in '96, he didn't stop that team from tanking because he was "against it".  


    The other pointless and false argument against tanking is that the players and coaches are somehow forced into purposefully losing games which is just ridiculous.  Danny does the tanking by putting together a team that doesn't mesh well, or is unbalanced, or has glaring holes that can't be overcome.  Or, like last year and this year he employs all three strategies. 


    Stevens and the players can try as hard as possible, always trying to win, but it doesn't matter. They will still end up to be a lottery team because Danny has done and will continue to do the dirty work. 


    Every team has employed the tanking strategy, even historically great teams. Spurs? Yep. Celtics? Yes. Lakers? Yes. Knicks, 76ers, OKC, Dallas? Yes, yes, yes, and yes.  It is a commonly employed strategy in the NBA, and it does provide teams with little to no chance of acquiring a difference maker a sliver of hope that they can put together a competitive team. 


    This Celtics team is in NO-MANS LAND!  They have one guy who is a FORMER All-star, one rookie who COULD SOMEDAY be an All-star and a bunch of middle of the road guys that nobody wants in between. There is no way they are competing with teams in the top half of the league, and almost no way they can acquire a top flight Allstar other than the draft.  Trades? We tried that, our assets aren't worth jack right now. Free agents? Even if the Celtics historically were able to pick and choose there really aren't any great ones avail in the next two years that would suddenly make this team relevant. So Danny has to set the team up to have the best chance of acquiring a star through the draft, and if something better comes along, then great, but you can't plan for that to happen. 

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from CeltsFanInNH. Show CeltsFanInNH's posts

    Re: Co-owner Steve Pagliuca on 'fireworks' and Rondo

    In response to CelticGreenLP's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Celtsfan4life's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

     

    In response to CelticGreenLP's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to romneywins' comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    Don't get your hopes tooooo high for next year.  We are likely tanking but for what?  And what is our chance of getting it if it becomes open?   And can drafting late in the lottery produce what we need, I doubt it.  Players like Rondo, Green, Turner, Sullinger, and whoever will need to turn into diamonds.  It might just happen stay tuned for many years, mabey 20 or so?

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Jahlil Okafor

     

     

    Karl Towns

     

    Cliff Alexander

     

    if we miss out on a big, Stanley Johnson is going to be a Jabari Parker level SF prospect who will be in the 4-6 range. He would be my first choice actually.

     

    And I agree that winning 20-28 games and getting a top 8 or so pick would be more productive and valuable than winning 35 games, getting a weak draft position, and getting blown out in the first round of the playoffs. 

     

    [/QUOTE]

    I don't agree.   Learning to win is important.  Not being a constant loser is important.   "Show me a good loser and I'll show you a loser"....I think it was Red Auerbach who said it.

     

    We need to teach our guys that winning is not only fun, but the result of good hard work.   Tanking teaches them NOTHING!    It doesn't team them to be hungry, to work hard, to stay motivated, etc..   Essentially, losing does not prepare your team for the future and just makes you hope for some savior in the lottery and we all see how well that worked for ML Carr and Pitino!

     

    [/QUOTE]
    Your assertion that losing begets "losers" is completely false and baseless. There are literally hundreds of players that played for lottery teams that ended up also playing for championship teams. In fact most top flight players in the NBA are drafted by terrible teams and have to live through a couple more bad years before those teams become perennial winners, or they end up on winning teams.

     

    Pierce, Garnett, and Allen were on ALOT of terrible teams (including teams that blatantly tanked) before they won #17.  It didn't magically turn them into "losers", did it??

     

    Red also oversaw the biggest and most blatant tank job the Celtics have ever been a part of in '96, he didn't stop that team from tanking because he was "against it".  

     

    The other pointless and false argument against tanking is that the players and coaches are somehow forced into purposefully losing games which is just ridiculous.  Danny does the tanking by putting together a team that doesn't mesh well, or is unbalanced, or has glaring holes that can't be overcome.  Or, like last year and this year he employs all three strategies. 

     

    Stevens and the players can try as hard as possible, always trying to win, but it doesn't matter. They will still end up to be a lottery team because Danny has done and will continue to do the dirty work. 

     

    Every team has employed the tanking strategy, even historically great teams. Spurs? Yep. Celtics? Yes. Lakers? Yes. Knicks, 76ers, OKC, Dallas? Yes, yes, yes, and yes.  It is a commonly employed strategy in the NBA, and it does provide teams with little to no chance of acquiring a difference maker a sliver of hope that they can put together a competitive team. 

     

    This Celtics team is in NO-MANS LAND!  They have one guy who is a FORMER All-star, one rookie who COULD SOMEDAY be an All-star and a bunch of middle of the road guys that nobody wants in between. There is no way they are competing with teams in the top half of the league, and almost no way they can acquire a top flight Allstar other than the draft.  Trades? We tried that, our assets aren't worth jack right now. Free agents? Even if the Celtics historically were able to pick and choose there really aren't any great ones avail in the next two years that would suddenly make this team relevant. So Danny has to set the team up to have the best chance of acquiring a star through the draft, and if something better comes along, then great, but you can't plan for that to happen. 

    [/QUOTE]

    Once again you're spot on. 

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from painter. Show painter's posts

    Re: Co-owner Steve Pagliuca on 'fireworks' and Rondo

    [/QUOTE]

    This Celtics team is in NO-MANS LAND!  They have one guy who is a FORMER All-star, one rookie who COULD SOMEDAY be an All-star and a bunch of middle of the road guys that nobody wants in between. There is no way they are competing with teams in the top half of the league, and almost no way they can acquire a top flight Allstar other than the draft.  Trades? We tried that, our assets aren't worth jack right now. Free agents? Even if the Celtics historically were able to pick and choose there really aren't any great ones avail in the next two years that would suddenly make this team relevant. So Danny has to set the team up to have the best chance of acquiring a star through the draft, and if something better comes along, then great, but you can't plan for that to happen. 

    [/QUOTE]

    "Former All-star" can apply to Derrick Rose and others, whose injuries prevented them from reaching all-star level performances until they have fully recovered from injuries and recovered their former conditioning and skills. Let's also not forget that fans vote for all-stars, so ballot-stuffing is as prevalent in the NBA as it is in MLB.  Popularity contests among fans are often less than reflective of players' performances than the all-NBA teams announced at the conclusion of each season.  Albeit still an accumulation of votes, the voters are sportswriters and broadcasters who may be just a bit more objective.  

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from CelticGreenLP. Show CelticGreenLP's posts

    Re: Co-owner Steve Pagliuca on 'fireworks' and Rondo

    In response to painter's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    [/QUOTE]

    This Celtics team is in NO-MANS LAND!  They have one guy who is a FORMER All-star, one rookie who COULD SOMEDAY be an All-star and a bunch of middle of the road guys that nobody wants in between. There is no way they are competing with teams in the top half of the league, and almost no way they can acquire a top flight Allstar other than the draft.  Trades? We tried that, our assets aren't worth jack right now. Free agents? Even if the Celtics historically were able to pick and choose there really aren't any great ones avail in the next two years that would suddenly make this team relevant. So Danny has to set the team up to have the best chance of acquiring a star through the draft, and if something better comes along, then great, but you can't plan for that to happen. 

    [/QUOTE]

    "Former All-star" can apply to Derrick Rose and others, whose injuries prevented them from reaching all-star level performances until they have fully recovered from injuries and recovered their former conditioning and skills. Let's also not forget that fans vote for all-stars, so ballot-stuffing is as prevalent in the NBA as it is in MLB.  Popularity contests among fans are often less than reflective of players' performances than the all-NBA teams announced at the conclusion of each season.  Albeit still an accumulation of votes, the voters are sportswriters and broadcasters who may be just a bit more objective.  

    [/QUOTE]

    Ok, but my point still stands. Rondo hasn't proven yet that he can help a team with minimal talent win games.  After his injury he is starting from scratch and has to prove he can play at a top 5 PG level. With guys like Wall, Irving, Westbrook, Cp3, Lillard ect. all playing on high profile playoff teams it will be VERY hard for him to make headway in his case that he is an elite talent at his position. 

    Danny didnt bring him any high profile running mates, or even anyone that is great at finishing to maximize Rondo's strengths. I foresee Rondo having a tough year filled with beautiful passes left unfinished by mid level players, growing angst at seeing other guys he is better than getting more press because they are on good teams, the Boston media trying as hard as they can to push him out, and frustrating losses where teams sleep on these guys until the fourth just to turn it on and win in the final minutes.  

     

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from mellymel3. Show mellymel3's posts

    Re: Co-owner Steve Pagliuca on 'fireworks' and Rondo

    In response to CelticGreenLP's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Celtsfan4life's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

     

    In response to CelticGreenLP's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to romneywins' comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    Don't get your hopes tooooo high for next year.  We are likely tanking but for what?  And what is our chance of getting it if it becomes open?   And can drafting late in the lottery produce what we need, I doubt it.  Players like Rondo, Green, Turner, Sullinger, and whoever will need to turn into diamonds.  It might just happen stay tuned for many years, mabey 20 or so?

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Jahlil Okafor

     

     

    Karl Towns

     

    Cliff Alexander

     

    if we miss out on a big, Stanley Johnson is going to be a Jabari Parker level SF prospect who will be in the 4-6 range. He would be my first choice actually.

     

    And I agree that winning 20-28 games and getting a top 8 or so pick would be more productive and valuable than winning 35 games, getting a weak draft position, and getting blown out in the first round of the playoffs. 

     

    [/QUOTE]

    I don't agree.   Learning to win is important.  Not being a constant loser is important.   "Show me a good loser and I'll show you a loser"....I think it was Red Auerbach who said it.

     

    We need to teach our guys that winning is not only fun, but the result of good hard work.   Tanking teaches them NOTHING!    It doesn't team them to be hungry, to work hard, to stay motivated, etc..   Essentially, losing does not prepare your team for the future and just makes you hope for some savior in the lottery and we all see how well that worked for ML Carr and Pitino!

     

    [/QUOTE]
    Your assertion that losing begets "losers" is completely false and baseless. There are literally hundreds of players that played for lottery teams that ended up also playing for championship teams. In fact most top flight players in the NBA are drafted by terrible teams and have to live through a couple more bad years before those teams become perennial winners, or they end up on winning teams.

     

    Pierce, Garnett, and Allen were on ALOT of terrible teams (including teams that blatantly tanked) before they won #17.  It didn't magically turn them into "losers", did it??

     

    Red also oversaw the biggest and most blatant tank job the Celtics have ever been a part of in '96, he didn't stop that team from tanking because he was "against it".  

     

    The other pointless and false argument against tanking is that the players and coaches are somehow forced into purposefully losing games which is just ridiculous.  Danny does the tanking by putting together a team that doesn't mesh well, or is unbalanced, or has glaring holes that can't be overcome.  Or, like last year and this year he employs all three strategies. 

     

    Stevens and the players can try as hard as possible, always trying to win, but it doesn't matter. They will still end up to be a lottery team because Danny has done and will continue to do the dirty work. 

     

    Every team has employed the tanking strategy, even historically great teams. Spurs? Yep. Celtics? Yes. Lakers? Yes. Knicks, 76ers, OKC, Dallas? Yes, yes, yes, and yes.  It is a commonly employed strategy in the NBA, and it does provide teams with little to no chance of acquiring a difference maker a sliver of hope that they can put together a competitive team. 

     

    This Celtics team is in NO-MANS LAND!  They have one guy who is a FORMER All-star, one rookie who COULD SOMEDAY be an All-star and a bunch of middle of the road guys that nobody wants in between. There is no way they are competing with teams in the top half of the league, and almost no way they can acquire a top flight Allstar other than the draft.  Trades? We tried that, our assets aren't worth jack right now. Free agents? Even if the Celtics historically were able to pick and choose there really aren't any great ones avail in the next two years that would suddenly make this team relevant. So Danny has to set the team up to have the best chance of acquiring a star through the draft, and if something better comes along, then great, but you can't plan for that to happen. 

    [/QUOTE]

    THIS^

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from mellymel3. Show mellymel3's posts

    Re: Co-owner Steve Pagliuca on 'fireworks' and Rondo

    In response to CelticGreenLP's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to painter's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    [/QUOTE]

    This Celtics team is in NO-MANS LAND!  They have one guy who is a FORMER All-star, one rookie who COULD SOMEDAY be an All-star and a bunch of middle of the road guys that nobody wants in between. There is no way they are competing with teams in the top half of the league, and almost no way they can acquire a top flight Allstar other than the draft.  Trades? We tried that, our assets aren't worth jack right now. Free agents? Even if the Celtics historically were able to pick and choose there really aren't any great ones avail in the next two years that would suddenly make this team relevant. So Danny has to set the team up to have the best chance of acquiring a star through the draft, and if something better comes along, then great, but you can't plan for that to happen. 

    [/QUOTE]

    "Former All-star" can apply to Derrick Rose and others, whose injuries prevented them from reaching all-star level performances until they have fully recovered from injuries and recovered their former conditioning and skills. Let's also not forget that fans vote for all-stars, so ballot-stuffing is as prevalent in the NBA as it is in MLB.  Popularity contests among fans are often less than reflective of players' performances than the all-NBA teams announced at the conclusion of each season.  Albeit still an accumulation of votes, the voters are sportswriters and broadcasters who may be just a bit more objective.  

    [/QUOTE]

    Ok, but my point still stands. Rondo hasn't proven yet that he can help a team with minimal talent win games.  After his injury he is starting from scratch and has to prove he can play at a top 5 PG level. With guys like Wall, Irving, Westbrook, Cp3, Lillard ect. all playing on high profile playoff teams it will be VERY hard for him to make headway in his case that he is an elite talent at his position. 

    Danny didnt bring him any high profile running mates, or even anyone that is great at finishing to maximize Rondo's strengths. I foresee Rondo having a tough year filled with beautiful passes left unfinished by mid level players, growing angst at seeing other guys he is better than getting more press because they are on good teams, the Boston media trying as hard as they can to push him out, and frustrating losses where teams sleep on these guys until the fourth just to turn it on and win in the final minutes.  

     

    [/QUOTE]

    This man gets it!

     

Share