Congratulations!!!!!

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Red-16Russ-11. Show Red-16Russ-11's posts

    Re: Congratulations!!!!!

    "very" over-rated...................wonder which experts have ever used those words when defining William Felton Russell....................

     
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    Re: Congratulations!!!!!

    Got a link, NON-expert?

     
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  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from KingShaq. Show KingShaq's posts

    Re: Congratulations!!!!!

    In response to snakeoil123's comment:


    I don't know. does "set him apart" mean "best of all time" to you?

     

     

    Absolutely,  "set him apart from every other player in league history" means so. That's why I will vehemently dispute him.

     

     

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from KingShaq. Show KingShaq's posts

    Re: Congratulations!!!!!

    In response to Duke4's comment:

    Russell defined winning.....

    as if Jordan didn't define winning. Jordan is as much a winner as Russell, if not bigger. People put more weight on Jordan's winning because it happened in the Golden age of basketball, not the Jurassic age...

    [QUOTE]Bill Russell is the greatest single player in American team sports when it comes to winning championships...[/QUOTE]

    Yet Jordan was considered by many polls as the greatest single player in American team sports, PERIOD. No qualifer like "when it comes to winning championships". In other words, when counting everything, Jordan is greater than Russell. Russell is the greatest (by Celtics fans) only when you take his team achievement (mostly due to 11 HOF teammates) into account.


    You don't call Jordan "the greatest player in American team sports when it comes to winning championships", Jordan doesn't need that qualifier, just as Jordan doesn't need to be called "the best pure shooting guard in the history of the game", as in Stockton's "the best pure PG in the history of the game".


    And you can't prove that when Jordan was voted #1 basketball player, people didn't take his winning/team achievement into account. Jordan was long considered a winner more than his individual stats. His 6 rings in the 90s proved that. In other words, when people voted for Jordan, they considered his 6 rings greater than Russell's 11. You simply can't do anything about people's opinion no matter how many times you repeat your posts...

     

     

     

     

     

     

     



     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from snakeoil123. Show snakeoil123's posts

    Re: Congratulations!!!!!

    In response to KingShaq's comment:

    In response to snakeoil123's comment:

     


    I don't know. does "set him apart" mean "best of all time" to you?

     

     

     

     

    Absolutely,  "set him apart from every other player in league history" means so. That's why I will vehemently dispute him.

     

     



    I took it that he meant that his mindset and will to win was stronger than any other player.

    Semantics I guess.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from KingShaq. Show KingShaq's posts

    Re: Congratulations!!!!!

    In response to snakeoil123's comment:


    I took it that he meant that his mindset and will to win was stronger than any other player.

     

    Semantics I guess.



    Then we get into uncharted waters. How do you quantify Russell's mindset that he has a score much higher than (set him apart) any other player in league history? I can easily say that Jordan's or Larry Bird's mindset is greater than Russell's. Afterall, there is no scientific measurement of mindset or will to win. If Duke counts on biased opinions, then everything goes. My opinion is every bit as good as his.


    You quantify it by the results (# rings)? then it's not just about mindset. It has a lot more to do with talents of the teammates and the system...

     

     

     

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from snakeoil123. Show snakeoil123's posts

    Re: Congratulations!!!!!

    In response to KingShaq's comment:

    In response to snakeoil123's comment:

     


    I took it that he meant that his mindset and will to win was stronger than any other player.

     

    Semantics I guess.

     



    Then we get into uncharted waters. How do you quantify Russell's mindset that he has a score much higher than (set him apart) any other player in league history? I can easily say that Jordan's or Larry Bird's mindset is greater than Russell's. Afterall, there is no scientific measurement of mindset or will to win. If Duke counts on biased opinions, then everything goes. My opinion is every bit as good as his.

     


    You quantify it by the results (# rings)? then it's not just about mindset. It has a lot more to do with talents of the teammates and the system...

     

     

     



    No disagreement with me there.

    To me Jordan is the best ever. I don't like saying that because I don't like Jordan but it is what it is.

    With that said I have never seen Russell  play, nor have I seen Wilt,  I started wathcing in the Cowens Havlicek era, so my opinion is biased as well.

    Everyone's is really.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Duke4. Show Duke4's posts

    Re: Congratulations!!!!!

    I saw them both play during their primes....it was an awesome matchup over the years.....Wilt admitted that Russ was the toughest opponent he ever faced...he often said that Russ frustrated him on the court....so how does a guy that gave up at least 3 inches in height and 50 lbs in weight play so effectively against his bigger foe? ....smarts? ....drive?.... desire? ....mindset (aka mental toughness)?....a combination of those traits maybe....we do know that Russ was an incredible athlete...our Laker friend is correct...I am stating my opinion...but this same opinion has been stated by the very men who faced Russ back in the day...just look up the quotes that Jerry West and even Wilt himself have said about Russell....I'm not making this stuff up....and I agree that everyone is entitled to their own opinion...however, I do find it interesting that this arguement (discussion) continues to take place on a forum created for Celtic fans...

     

     

     

     

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from LloydDobler. Show LloydDobler's posts

    Re: Congratulations!!!!!

    In response to realdfury13's comment:

    Robert Horry has 7 rings.

    Do you want to compare him with Paul Pierce who has 1?

    Bill Russell is very over-rated as an individual player due to the championships he won.


    While I agree rings can be overemphasized in evaluating a player's worth, you're showing a remarkable degree of ignorance by calling Bill Russell "very overrated."

    The man averaged 22.5 rebounds a game for his career. That's second all time, just barely behind Wilt. They didn't chart blocked shots in those days, but that number would be off the charts. Also, Russ was in the top 10 among assist leaders in each of his last four seasons. Which were the first four seasons the NBA started tracking that stat.

    No offense, but I'm guessing you were either born or came of age in the ESPN era, which focuses on scoring and style points. No, Russell wasn't a prolific scorer, but the Celtics didn't need him to be with teammates like Cousy, Heinsohn, Havlicek, Cowens, the Joneses, etc.

     

     

     

     

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Red-16Russ-11. Show Red-16Russ-11's posts

    Re: Congratulations!!!!!

    In response to LloydDobler's comment:

    In response to realdfury13's comment:

     

    Robert Horry has 7 rings.

    Do you want to compare him with Paul Pierce who has 1?

    Bill Russell is very over-rated as an individual player due to the championships he won.

     


    While I agree rings can be overemphasized in evaluating a player's worth, you're showing a remarkable degree of ignorance by calling Bill Russell "very overrated."

     

    The man averaged 22.5 rebounds a game for his career. That's second all time, just barely behind Wilt. They didn't chart blocked shots in those days, but that number would be off the charts. Also, Russ was in the top 10 among assist leaders in each of his last four seasons. Which were the first four seasons the NBA started tracking that stat.

    No offense, but I'm guessing you were either born or came of age in the ESPN era, which focuses on scoring and style points. No, Russell wasn't a prolific scorer, but the Celtics didn't need him to be with teammates like Cousy, Heinsohn, Havlicek, Cowens, the Joneses, etc.

     

     

     

     




    He just argues to argue.  He doesn't even believe half the stuff he writes.  If you say kobe is a top 10 all-time player, he'd say, no, he's top 5.............THAT kind of thing.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from LloydDobler. Show LloydDobler's posts

    Re: Congratulations!!!!!

    In response to Red-16Russ-11's comment:

    He just argues to argue.  He doesn't even believe half the stuff he writes.  If you say kobe is a top 10 all-time player, he'd say, no, he's top 5.............THAT kind of thing.



    Yeah, and I took the bait. But hells bells,  I couldn't  let that go!

     

     
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  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Red-16Russ-11. Show Red-16Russ-11's posts

    Re: Congratulations!!!!!

    Kobe will NEVER be MJ!

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from KingShaq. Show KingShaq's posts

    Re: Congratulations!!!!!

    In response to Duke4's comment:

    I saw them both play during their primes....it was an awesome matchup over the years.....Wilt admitted that Russ was the toughest opponent he ever faced...he often said that Russ frustrated him on the court....so how does a guy that gave up at least 3 inches in height and 50 lbs in weight play so effectively against his bigger foe? ....smarts? ....drive?.... desire? ....mindset (aka mental toughness)?....a combination of those traits maybe....we do know that Russ was an incredible athlete...our Laker friend is correct...I am stating my opinion...but this same opinion has been stated by the very men who faced Russ back in the day...just look up the quotes that Jerry West and even Wilt himself have said about Russell....I'm not making this stuff up....and I agree that everyone is entitled to their own opinion...however, I do find it interesting that this arguement (discussion) continues to take place on a forum created for Celtic fans...

     


    It's so easy to play this game. You find other people's opinions to support you? so can I.

     

    http://www.nba.com/bulls/news/jordanhof_reinsdorf_090902.html

    "Bulls Chairman Jerry Reinsdorf: Michael Jordan's will to win made him the best."

     

    http://www.chicagonow.com/just-getting-started/2013/02/michael-jordan-birthday-50/

    "Michael Jordan is universally described by those around him as the most competitive man on the planet. "

     

    http://m.nbcsports.com/content/pbt-how%C2%A0mj%C2%A0changed-our-expectations-athletes

    "But no player in any sport has had an ultra-competitiveness fused with his image like Michael Jordan."

     

    http://www.businessinsider.com/craziest-michael-jordan-stories-2013-2?op=1

    "Through his trash talk, high-stakes betting, and refusal to lose, MJ developed the persona of the most competitive athlete in sports history."

     

    http://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/columns/story?columnist=greenberg_jon&id=4468210

    " He cried, thanked his friends and family, rebuked his so-called enemies and proved that he is -- forever and ever -- the most competitive person alive."

      See, this same opinion is shared by many other people who know the game.

     

     
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    Re: Congratulations!!!!!

    MJ doesn't want to be koME - he's already better

     
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  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Red-16Russ-11. Show Red-16Russ-11's posts

    Re: Congratulations!!!!!

    In response to realdfury13's comment:

    In response to Red-16Russ-11's comment:

     

    Kobe will NEVER be MJ!

     




    Russell was never Kareem or Wilt.

     




    True - he was better than both............add Wilt's and Kareem's rings, and you still don't get Russell.

     
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  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Red-16Russ-11. Show Red-16Russ-11's posts

    Re: Congratulations!!!!!

    In response to realdfury13's comment:

    In response to Red-16Russ-11's comment:

     

    In response to realdfury13's comment:

     

    In response to Red-16Russ-11's comment:

     

    Kobe will NEVER be MJ!

     




    Russell was never Kareem or Wilt.

     

     




    True - he was better than both............add Wilt's and Kareem's rings, and you still don't get Russell.

     

     



    So, rings dictate greatness, but only when it applies to Boston players, right?

     

    When it comes to players like Derek Fisher, Robert Horry, Scottie Pippen, Michael Cooper, Dennis Rodman, Ron Harper, Steve Kerr, Kurt Rambis, then the rings don't get recognized toward how great they were, right?

     




    Ah, no, actually, talk to you buddy bloop who always says how much better is kobe is than anyone because he "has 5 rings".

    Stockton has none, was he a bad player?

    I'm just using lakers fans arguments........or illogic!!

     

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