could be the best celtics team ever..

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from oreed. Show oreed's posts

    could be the best celtics team ever..

    some of yall forget who west is he pretty good on d-fence too, he 's better all-around...the way tony allen game is he could never be a starter... u have to think about what danny did he pick-up 3 starters with chump money that well that help bench...this could be the best celtics team ever... good job danny

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Duke4. Show Duke4's posts

    Re: could be the best celtics team ever..

    I would go with either the '85-'86 team...(4 of the 5 starters are in the HOF and were in their prime......and Walton was the 6th man and is also in the HOF).....or any number of Russ' teams during the 8 year streak (take your pick of several all time great teams loaded with HOF players).....
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from RUWorthy. Show RUWorthy's posts

    Re: could be the best celtics team ever..

    I agree with Duke, 85/86 is the best of the Celtics teams.

    One of the Earlier Russell era teams may be up there as well. Just picking one the 60/61 team appeared to be truly great. Backcourt of Cousy and Sharman, backed up by Sam and K.C. Jones. You can't beat that.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Duke4. Show Duke4's posts

    Re: could be the best celtics team ever..

    Right on again....you are truly "worthy" of posting here kiddo....damn, you would make a great Celtic fan!!!!
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Duke4. Show Duke4's posts

    Re: could be the best celtics team ever..

    ....and again....like you say......Cous and Sharmin.....Sam and KC....all in the "Hall".....on the same team....in the same year.....and these kids think todays NBA is the best?....what a joke....the thing is....they never saw the "golden age" of Russ, Baylor, West & Co.  .......they only have today to relate to....sad.....some of these starters would not even be backups years ago.....
     
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    Re: could be the best celtics team ever..

    In Response to Re: could be the best celtics team ever..:
    Right on again....you are truly "worthy" of posting here kiddo....damn, you would make a great Celtic fan!!!!
    Posted by Duke4


    I think if he was a Celtic fan we'd be calling him RUPotapenko. Laughing
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from SeemsToMe. Show SeemsToMe's posts

    Re: could be the best celtics team ever..

    In Response to Re: could be the best celtics team ever..:
    ....and again....like you say......Cous and Sharmin.....Sam and KC....all in the "Hall".....on the same team....in the same year.....and these kids think todays NBA is the best?....what a joke....the thing is....they never saw the "golden age" of Russ, Baylor, West & Co.  .......they only have today to relate to....sad.....some of these starters would not even be backups years ago.....
    Posted by Duke4


    Duke

    I think its the Russell years teams that suffer by comparison when comparared to the teams from the 1980's on. Indeed its the players of the 60's that would not make the cut.The level of play in the 50's and 60's as been far exceeded by  many teams of the 80's,90's and the past 10 years.
    SeemsToMe 
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from RUWorthy. Show RUWorthy's posts

    Re: could be the best celtics team ever..

    The physical side of play has improved. But as far as mental toughness and basketball IQ I'd say that there is parity between eras.

    That Celtics side I quoted from 60/61 was loaded. But that's also because there were not as many teams back then. But you can't take away that it's a superior side. The great 80's teams were also 'loaded' because you didn't have the Wolves, Heat, Magic etc in the league.

    You give those 60/61 players a modern training regimen and they'd be equal to current players. Perhaps better as the IQ of Russell, Cousey, KC Jones etc seem to be at higher level than most of the modern guys. Those guys in most cases also had 4 years of college behind them which I think is an advantage.

    Although I don't know how much of this is from a rose colored glasses look back at the past. The current players/teams are very good. But I think that Magic and Bird led teams would eat most of them for breakfast. Not to even bring Jordan into the equation.

     
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    Re: could be the best celtics team ever..

    In Response to Re: could be the best celtics team ever..:
    ...the thing is....they never saw the "golden age" of Russ, Baylor, West & Co.  .......they only have today to relate to....sad.....some of these starters would not even be backups years ago.....
    Posted by Duke4


    and conversely- i often wonder what chumps from yester year would be doing in today's dilute nba....

    marty conlon...... prolly a starter and double double machine!?
    uwe blab- all nba?

    i'm just kidding on those- but i did sit blinking at the TV screen for most all of the pitino era convinced that 2 or more of our 5 starters and almost none of the bench would not have even made a roster in the nba in the 80s, 70s or 60s.  

    i think our roster this year is as good as it could be.  if delonte pans out then ainge is brilliant.  if he does guns and other guys' wives then you cut him- not much lost.  same thing with wafer and shaq for that matter.  we have these guys who could pan out for dirt cheap and also have the option to cut bait with them and look for other pieces too.  i like our position.

    i think we have a good chance of knocking off miami in the playoffs, as good a chance as we could hope to have given our big 3.  if rondo makes some steps <wince /> in free throws and jumpers and a couple other of these guys come together who we signed for little to nothing, we could be there at the finishing line.  easily.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from nba-favours-the-lakers. Show nba-favours-the-lakers's posts

    Re: could be the best celtics team ever..

    wich player could match up with kg in his prime in the 60s or 80s
    i dont think anyone kg would dunk on them all

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from mem17. Show mem17's posts

    Re: could be the best celtics team ever..

    I was born in 61 so I can't remember the teams from the early and mid 60's. However the teams from the late 60's through the 70's were as good as any today. The Lakers, Bucks, Knicks and Celtics of that period had great lineups. I'm not going to go through all the players but they were stacked with great players who would be stars if they were young and playing today. Examples include: Jabbar, the Big O, Elvin Hayes, Russell, Hondo, Frazier, Reed, Chamberlin, West, Baylor and so many more.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from CHEisCHE. Show CHEisCHE's posts

    Re: could be the best celtics team ever..

    This kind of thread made me cringe, even in paper it is  not proven to be the best group. There are major players & ego inserted to the regulars. Between the regulars and the new comers, you don't know how this will work out and how the group will respond.
    They haven't played a single game...it's now the best group? Give me a break!

     
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    Re: could be the best celtics team ever..

    I was going to say, shouldn't we wait and see them play a few regular season games first?  They are not even the favorite to win it all in most people's eyes outside of some Celtics fans, now they are the best team ever?
     
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    Re: could be the best celtics team ever..

    In Response to Re: could be the best celtics team ever..:
    In Response to Re: could be the best celtics team ever.. : Duke I think its the Russell years teams that suffer by comparison when comparared to the teams from the 1980's on. Indeed its the players of the 60's that would not make the cut.The level of play in the 50's and 60's as been far exceeded by  many teams of the 80's,90's and the past 10 years. SeemsToMe 
    Posted by SeemsToMe

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Duke4. Show Duke4's posts

    Re: could be the best celtics team ever..

    well, seems I don't agree.......you must remember that this was the era of Russell, Chamberlain, Baylor, West, Robertson.....these guys would combine today's training with their skills and would be superstars today....remember it was said that Cousy would be too small today...well just take a look at Stockton.....a Cousy clone....and also remember....the NBA put out the list of the "50 Greatest" back in the mid '90's.....over one half on that list played  during the"Russell Era" (1956 through 1969).....you can look it up....
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from SeemsToMe. Show SeemsToMe's posts

    Re: could be the best celtics team ever..

    In Response to Re: could be the best celtics team ever..:
    well, seems I don't agree.......you must remember that this was the era of Russell, Chamberlain, Baylor, West, Robertson.....these guys would combine today's training with their skills and would be superstars today....remember it was said that Cousy would be too small today...well just take a look at Stockton.....a Cousy clone....and also remember....the NBA put out the list of the "50 Greatest" back in the mid '90's.....over one half on that list played  during the"Russell Era" (1956 through 1969).....you can look it up....
    Posted by Duke4


    Duke
    I thought that this discussion was about a comparison of teams from different generations as they were, and yet you suggest that  they would need to benefit from modern  training to be on a par with  players from later generations. They would need a lot more than that. As for Cousy vs Stockton. The shooting percentages say it all. Cousy lifetime.375, Stockton .515(includes his 3 point shooting). Taking out his 3 point shooting his 2 point shooting goes up to .541--- thats about 17 percentage points higher than Cousy's. As  amatter of fact Stockton shot at a higher percent(.384) from 3 point range than Cousy(.375)  did from from 2 point range. As far as the 50 greatest stat goes I'm sure that your numbers are accurate. Those players of the 50's and 60's certainly belong on the list. Their performances during their careers were truly outstanding hence their selection to the greatest list. But once again, when compared to the talents of the players of the 80's onto the present, its just no contest. However Duke that's just one man's opinion.

    SeemsToMe
     
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    Re: could be the best celtics team ever..

    While it is way too early to anoint this team the best ever, or even better than 2008, I decided to respond to those that play the “number of teams card” to rank the sixties teams as the best of all time.

    Any argument that is one dimensional is open to attack. Comparing teams of different eras with different rules, referee calling styles, training regimens, economics, race relations, NBA popularity, and competitive avenues for great athletes, is very difficult. I saw Russell play, and the game looked nothing like it does today. They were great. Were they the best ever?... hard to say.

    Great athletes have options. Do they choose football, baseball, or the less popular NBA in the 1960s? Do they choose to go to medical school, law school, work in business, or play in the NBA where they need two or more jobs to make ends meet? 

    Today, players can make more guaranteed money in a more popular NBA than most other sports, or careers.

    Today the league is mostly black. That would not have been possible in the 1960s. Even the educational opportunities were limited for blacks in the 1960s.

    Remember Adolph Rupp?

    HGH, steroids, and the increased height and size of the average person have changed.

    The NBA has a wealth of international talent as well because of increased world wide popularity.

    All of things make the "fewer teams" argument fall apart. The NBA draws from a much larger pool of talent than in the sixties that has little to do with population increase.

    It slippery slope to compare teams of different eras.


     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from dboss. Show dboss's posts

    Re: could be the best celtics team ever..

    Seen a lot of Great Celtics teams play since 1960...to suggest this could be the greatest team ever is a bit pre mature ...don't ya think!

    dboss
     
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    Re: could be the best celtics team ever..

    In Response to Re: could be the best celtics team ever..:
    In Response to Re: could be the best celtics team ever.. : Duke I thought that this discussion was about a comparison of teams from different generations as they were, and yet you suggest that  they would need to benefit from modern  training to be on a par with  players from later generations. They would need a lot more than that. As for Cousy vs Stockton. The shooting percentages say it all. Cousy lifetime.375, Stockton .515(includes his 3 point shooting). Taking out his 3 point shooting his 2 point shooting goes up to .541--- thats about 17 percentage points higher than Cousy's. As  amatter of fact Stockton shot at a higher percent(.384) from 3 point range than Cousy(.375)  did from from 2 point range. As far as the 50 greatest stat goes I'm sure that your numbers are accurate. Those players of the 50's and 60's certainly belong on the list. Their performances during their careers were truly outstanding hence their selection to the greatest list. But once again, when compared to the talents of the players of the 80's onto the present, its just no contest. However Duke that's just one man's opinion. SeemsToMe
    Posted by SeemsToMe

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from TheDUDDER. Show TheDUDDER's posts

    Re: could be the best celtics team ever..

    In Response to Re: could be the best celtics team ever..:
    I would go with either the '85-'86 team...(4 of the 5 starters are in the HOF and were in their prime......and Walton was the 6th man and is also in the HOF).....or any number of Russ' teams during the 8 year streak (take your pick of several all time great teams loaded with HOF players).....
    Posted by Duke4


    No discussion of greatest teams ever can include teams prior to the implementation of the salary cap.  When you change the rules as to how a team can be constructed the debate about a team being better than another becomes moot. 

    It does not mean those teams were not better but what it does mean is that those teams would not have had 8 HOF players on them and conversely without a salary cap today the best team in the league would start Dwight Howard, LeBron, Kobe, Wade, and Bosh - their second unit would probably include Boozer, Deron Williams, Pau Gasol, Rudy Gay, and Brandon Roy.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Duke4. Show Duke4's posts

    Re: could be the best celtics team ever..

    Good reply my friend.....true Cousy couldn't shoot like Stockton.....my point was that his ball handling, passing, scoring, and creativity could be accomplished today just as Stockton was able to......as far as getting a time machine together to put the squads together on a basketball court.....of course today's athletes are bigger and stronger......but I don't think it's fair to not account for the players from previous decades also benefiting from today's training, etc.....I believe if Russell played today he would add 30 lbs of muscle and play around 250....and he would still be dominant.....your final point is right on....these are just our opinions....who really knows?  .....but it is fun to converse and get the perspective of others...
     
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    Re: could be the best celtics team ever..

    In Response to Re: could be the best celtics team ever..:
    Good reply my friend.....true Cousy couldn't shoot like Stockton.....my point was that his ball handling, passing, scoring, and creativity could be accomplished today just as Stockton was able to......as far as getting a time machine together to put the squads together on a basketball court.....of course today's athletes are bigger and stronger......but I don't think it's fair to not account for the players from previous decades also benefiting from today's training, etc.....I believe if Russell played today he would add 30 lbs of muscle and play around 250....and he would still be dominant.....your final point is right on....these are just our opinions....who really knows?  .....but it is fun to converse and get the perspective of others...
    Posted by Duke4


    So Russell would be PJ Brown.... domination - watch out!!!!
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Duke4. Show Duke4's posts

    Re: could be the best celtics team ever..

    Umbutu, you make some excellent points.....my question is where to draw the lines as far as era's....the greats like Russ, Chamberlain, West, Baylor, Robertson would be great in any era.....a guy like Russ could bulk up....remember, that wasn't done back then....Wilt wouldn't need to....so Russ goes '50's to '69....Wilt and Oscar play into the '70's as stars.....Russ leaves and along comes Alcinder....Havlicek stars in the '60'-'70's.....late '70's along comes Bird and Magic....neither one fleet of foot or leaping ability but superstars based on their talent and basketball IQ.....it seems to me that the better athletes began showing up in the mid to late '80's......think Jordan or, for sheer power, Malone....once kids stopped going to college the fundamentals began breaking down....the basketball skills were not as developed nor the IQ in my opinion...the stars seem to bridge the gaps......Bird was a wonderful basketball player....he would be a star in the early '60's just as he would today.....it isn't his great physical talent that would get him there....he was just a great basketball player and  competitor....just my opinion...
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from SeemsToMe. Show SeemsToMe's posts

    Re: could be the best celtics team ever..

    In Response to Re: could be the best celtics team ever..:
    Good reply my friend.....true Cousy couldn't shoot like Stockton.....my point was that his ball handling, passing, scoring, and creativity could be accomplished today just as Stockton was able to......as far as getting a time machine together to put the squads together on a basketball court.....of course today's athletes are bigger and stronger......but I don't think it's fair to not account for the players from previous decades also benefiting from today's training, etc.....I believe if Russell played today he would add 30 lbs of muscle and play around 250....and he would still be dominant.....your final point is right on....these are just our opinions....who really knows?  .....but it is fun to converse and get the perspective of others...
    Posted by Duke4

    Duke
    It's always a pleasure posting with you. You really do know you basketball (and baseball) but more importantly to me, you always make your points in a very civil fashion.
    SeemsToMe
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Duke4. Show Duke4's posts

    Re: could be the best celtics team ever..

    Thanks my friend.....the feeling is mutual......I enjoy the interaction as well...
     
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