Delonte West versus Keyon Dooling

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from ShepherdCall. Show ShepherdCall's posts

    Delonte West versus Keyon Dooling

    I respect the sentiments of Doc and Danny wanting to more low maintainence, but I DO NOT see Dooling as the crafty veteran that Delonte is turning out to be "on-the-court". 

    I still think every team needs someone with a little edge.  

    Dooling from what I remember like to shoot;  now he may have changed his stripes, at this time in his career, but so far I have not seen the cagey veteran thing.   It was interesting that Rick Carlise called upon Delonte to "start" in the second half of yesterday's game instead of Vince Carter.   Or can we forget that he gave Dwayne Wade fits.  

    We may be trying to bring Avery Bradley along, but is he worth the "risk" in a shortened season such as this.  

    We cannot go through the season with Rondo playing 41 minutes;  we need someone to give up a solid 15.  


     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Red-16Russ-11. Show Red-16Russ-11's posts

    Re: Delonte West versus Keyon Dooling

    That is why it is not the time to panic.  Point guards are much easier to come by - MN has about 4 and the Clips cannot possibly keep Blesdsoe and Williams happy as subs to  Paul and Billups.........perhaps we can pry one of them loose!!
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from 21st. Show 21st's posts

    Re: Delonte West versus Keyon Dooling

    2 words, ONE GAME!
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Re: Delonte West versus Keyon Dooling

    We traded a 2+ million trade exception for Dooling and a 2nd rd pick

    Delonte cost 1.8 million... 700k more than the veteran minimim for a player of his experience

    It would have taken using the 3m mini-MLE we used on Wilcox to keep Delonte... the extra 1.5 (we could have kept him for 1.5 I'm pretty sure) is barely more than the vet minimum and could not have filled a backup center position.

    So the question is NOT Dooling over Delonte... it is Dooling/Wilcox and a 2nd rd pick... vs. Delonte and some unknown mystery man we could have traded 'Quis trade exception for....

    anyone know what 2-3 million backup PF-C was available in a salary dump?

    Cuz that's waht Dooling was
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from ShepherdCall. Show ShepherdCall's posts

    Re: Delonte West versus Keyon Dooling

    In Response to Re: Delonte West versus Keyon Dooling:
    We traded a 2+ million trade exception for Dooling and a 2nd rd pick Delonte cost 1.8 million... 700k more than the veteran minimim for a player of his experience It would have taken using the 3m mini-MLE we used on Wilcox to keep Delonte... the extra 1.5 (we could have kept him for 1.5 I'm pretty sure) is barely more than the vet minimum and could not have filled a backup center position. So the question is NOT Dooling over Delonte... it is Dooling/Wilcox and a 2nd rd pick... vs. Delonte and some unknown mystery man we could have traded 'Quis trade exception for.... anyone know what 2-3 million backup PF-C was available in a salary dump? Cuz that's waht Dooling was
    Posted by rameakap


    But he signed with Dallas for the veteran minimum.  

    I know it is just one game, but Dooling (and I like him) never struck me a cagey vet.   Minus the injuries,  we knew what we were getting with Delonte.  

    We will give it time.   And if we were concerened about the health issue with D-West we could have picked up Carlos Arroyo again.  



     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Red-16Russ-11. Show Red-16Russ-11's posts

    Re: Delonte West versus Keyon Dooling

    In Response to Re: Delonte West versus Keyon Dooling:
    We traded a 2+ million trade exception for Dooling and a 2nd rd pick Delonte cost 1.8 million... 700k more than the veteran minimim for a player of his experience It would have taken using the 3m mini-MLE we used on Wilcox to keep Delonte... the extra 1.5 (we could have kept him for 1.5 I'm pretty sure) is barely more than the vet minimum and could not have filled a backup center position. So the question is NOT Dooling over Delonte... it is Dooling/Wilcox and a 2nd rd pick... vs. Delonte and some unknown mystery man we could have traded 'Quis trade exception for.... anyone know what 2-3 million backup PF-C was available in a salary dump? Cuz that's waht Dooling was
    Posted by rameakap


    Just tried this 3 way trade - it works - what do you think:
    LA Clips get Wilcox and Dooling
    NOH get Mo Williams, JON and Brian Cook
    BOS gets Okafor and Bledsoe!
     
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  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Re: Delonte West versus Keyon Dooling

    In Response to Re: Delonte West versus Keyon Dooling:
    In Response to Re: Delonte West versus Keyon Dooling : Just tried this 3 way trade - it works - what do you think: LA Clips get Wilcox and Dooling NOH get Mo Williams, JON and Brian Cook BOS gets Okafor and Bledsoe!
    Posted by Red-16Russ-11


    Love it!

    Assuming Mo Will is activiating his 8.5m player option next year.... then....

    Clips save 8.5 million... get a decent athletic big man to bu Griffin/Gordan... and a 3rd 6'3" vet combo-guard

    The Hornets save 5 million and get a to have 2 decent combo guards (Mo Will/Jack) over 2 decent PF-C's (Oak/Kaman) although Kaman is a FA and Okafor the best player in the trade.

    I'd say the Celts would have to give the Clippers their 1st rd pick back b/c Bledsoe has value past 2012 and Wilcox/Dooling don't

    Then the Celtics will have to give NO 2 of these 4 assets Avery/Johnson/Moore/our 1st rd pick.... to make them feel like it isn't just a salary dump... and it forces them to resign/overpay Kaman.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from bt33. Show bt33's posts

    Re: Delonte West versus Keyon Dooling

    Delonte West supposedly turned the Celtics down for the veteran minimum, they moved on, and he then signed with Dallas (for the same veteran minimum), which led the Celtics to Dooling as an alternative. Hard to say what went on behind the scenes, particularly as West is not necessarily the most stable guy in the world. From an assessment based strictly on ability though, if the team could have retained him and still acquired the necessary pieces they obviously should have. Despite the gushing reports from Doc about Dooling, West is a better and more versatile player by a longshot. The guy knew the system, plays D, hits the mid-range shot, and could have helped out in an area where they desperately need help - the back up two. He's not a master distributor or a real three point threat, his offense is a little hot and cold, but Dooling is no great shakes in any area. The acquisition of Pietrus helps fill that back-up 2 spot a bit and takes some of the sting away, but Dooling is a limited player who will fill one need - back Rondo up for 10 minutes a night at the point and be there as an adequate replacement if Rondo misses any action. Which is fine. However, this team is still several players away from being able to truly complete unfortunately, and likely won't get there. Without at least one legit center (can people stop talking about JON ? the guy can do one thing at this point -  block shots, and he will positively not stay healthy) and some more scoring help off the bench looks like an uphill climb. Johnson, Stietsma, Moore, Bradley et al will be of absolutely no help this year so forget about significant contributions from any of those players. You're talking 12-15 and Stietsma will be lucky to last the season. This leaves a bench of Wilcox, Pietrus, Bass, Daniels, and Dooling. Daniels looks horrible. The real holes though are at the 5 position, and at the back-up three, where they could still use a wing player with some range. Credit to Ainge for Bass, Wilcox, and Pietrus moves. All the more frustrating then being without Green and missing out on West. No matter how you slice it they're a few players away and it seems improbable they'll be able to get there.  
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Red-16Russ-11. Show Red-16Russ-11's posts

    Re: Delonte West versus Keyon Dooling

    I am willing to give Dooling 4 more games before saying it was a mistake to sign him.  Not an NBA coach or GM, I MUST trust they know more than I do.  It was me, btw, who wanted Baby out of town last year, if anyone remembers........and it happened.  Some of you were upset, but not me.  I say the same about Delonte.  He had his chance(s) here...........good luck to him, but to continue this tirade is pointless.  We don't have him, and we are not going to.   We have Dooling now, let's hope he plays better and learns the system quickly.
     
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  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from maryngary. Show maryngary's posts

    Re: Delonte West versus Keyon Dooling

    West is the better player all the way around.  He already knew the system and he can shoot.  Dooling looks lost and old and slow.  Dooling may shap out of it but he better do it quick, we do not have the time for laggers.  Hurry back Paul before we are 0-3.  Wake up Doc and play to winn with our best players.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Celtsfan4life. Show Celtsfan4life's posts

    Re: Delonte West versus Keyon Dooling

    In Response to Re: Delonte West versus Keyon Dooling:
    West is the better player all the way around.  He already knew the system and he can shoot.  Dooling looks lost and old and slow.  Dooling may shap out of it but he better do it quick, we do not have the time for laggers.  Hurry back Paul before we are 0-3.  Wake up Doc and play to winn with our best players.
    Posted by maryngary



    I was with you to that last line.  Then you confused me.  I was hearing in another thread earlier today (was it you?) that Doc won't stick with his word and he plays KG, Ray, and Rondo too much.  Which camp are you in.....he plays those players too much or wake up Doc and put our best players in MORE?   


     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from PHX85014. Show PHX85014's posts

    Re: Delonte West versus Keyon Dooling

    I TOTALLY AGREE WITH "ShepherdCall" - I think Delonte was perfect with this team and after one game, Keyon Dooling has not changed my mind.

    None of us have been in the locker room, but how bad could Delonte have been ? Actually, I think it was more about Delonte's injury history and the likelyhood of another more than any lingering questions about his character

    Danny has collected an impressive 15 assets.

    We need to see this team for 10-15 games before any reasonable conclusions can be reached...

    POSSIBLE UNREASONABLE CONCLUSION: "Still think Jan Vesely was worth chasing and will be the only superstar in the 2011 draft..."

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from binbones. Show binbones's posts

    Re: Delonte West versus Keyon Dooling

    In Response to Re: Delonte West versus Keyon Dooling:
    No knuckleheads.
    Posted by Kirk6


    AMEN....AMEN.....AMEN......NOW WE CAN FOCUS

    ON PLAY ....ON THE COURT.....


    BEAT L A .......BEAT L A .....BEAT L A ........
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from concord27. Show concord27's posts

    Re: Delonte West versus Keyon Dooling

    If Dooling is a bust, this would be a huge mistake considering the reliance on Bradley who is a bust.  Ainge will have really hurt the team's chances if this is true.  As this season unfolds the bench will end up being what sustains this team of tired stars.  West if healthy we knew could contribute.  Hard to see why we did not retain him.  

    Letting Wafer go in the trade bothered me as well.  He may be better than BBD in Orlando this year.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Rajon-Hondo. Show Rajon-Hondo's posts

    Re: Delonte West versus Keyon Dooling

    It's not a matter of who's a better player but who is a better fit. Dooling is a better fit and a better point for us. To all the chicken little types, please lets not over glorify West like Perkins. West was inconsistent shooting wise and his defense was either great or non existent. We don't know if West wanted to be here,he could be like Perk and made it clear we'd have to pay him extra to live here, maybe he was a problem with other players, we don't know.
     The Boston area isn't for everybody,I love but it does lack many things other cities offer. Boston is a major sports city but in many ways outside of sports it is quiet city as far as nightlife options,entertainment and is the early closing big city anywhere. I lived in Dallas and couldn't wait to get out of there,but my brother loves it and wll live there the rest of his life. Many feel Boston is a prime FA destination and expect everyone wants to play here, that just isn't true.
    Calm down folks Dooling will do better overall than West and our bench, even with Green going down and us picking up Piterius, is overall better than last year.
    I feel our biggest concern should be PPs foot and the question as to how serious it is.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from BiasLewis. Show BiasLewis's posts

    Re: Delonte West versus Keyon Dooling

    Part of all of this is how Doc plays guys. Murphy did nothing for us last year and now he's getting minutes for the Lakers.

    Guys don't want to come to the Celtics if Doc is going to continue to play just the Big 4 most of the time. Doc has to start mixing in some other guys and let's see what they can contribute. Why not give Steimsma some minutes.

    Doc isn't a good developer of talent. He's good at having a rotation and not thinking outside of that rotation. When that rotation breaks down he doesn't trust other players to step up or even give them the chance. If he doesn't change this 66 game schedule is going to eat up and spit out the C's.

    I don't want Dooling. i would just rather go straight to Moore and let him make his mistakes early. Dooling adds no value. He was a last resort signing because West went elsewhere. Bring Bradley in for defense and Moore in for offense.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Re: Delonte West versus Keyon Dooling

    We didn't sign Dooling b/c Delonte went to Dallas

    We traded for him (also getting back a 2nd rd pick) and Delonte didn't sign until AFTER we got Dooling

    It has been one game... give him a chance. Clearly the players talking about the professionalism and maturity of the new bench were taking shots at Baby and Delonte... notoriously immature guys the team didn't want back.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from BiasLewis. Show BiasLewis's posts

    Re: Delonte West versus Keyon Dooling

    I don't care about the sequence of which Dooling came and West left. The bottom line is they both play the same position. Why would we trade for Dooling? Probably to make the deal work, then when we lose out on West they had no choice but to keep Dooling. I bet they would've waived him had West signed.

    Billups may have been in the works.

    We need a backup PG and another big plain and simple. We can keep saying 'it's only one game" but these games are going to be coming quick and fast and we can't have guys that are just taking up space...Dooling and Pavs when Doc will play them over the young guys.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from shines01. Show shines01's posts

    Re: Delonte West versus Keyon Dooling

    In Response to Re: Delonte West versus Keyon Dooling:
    2 words, ONE GAME!
    Posted by 21st


    yup.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from shines01. Show shines01's posts

    Re: Delonte West versus Keyon Dooling

    Having said that, Dooling stinks.  Sasha and Bradley should be pushed off a cliff.  Maybe we could just get a shooter who handles the ball only a little like an Eddie House kind of guard.  Sasha was supposed to bring some defense, correct?  I must not have been watching that part when he was playing defense.  Bradley is a hellacious defender so maybe he should be asked to just push, dump or push and shoot.  But yeah, Dooling stinks until he convinces me otherwise.  Oh yeah, I saw half of each of the Toronto games which were total jokes and only the Knickies game so far so it's not really fair yet.  A lot of offense will run through Pierce so maybe Dooling and Bradley will have fewer weaknesses exposed when he comes back...still, not a good feeling when you need to rely on not having weaknesses exposed.  They can't all be All-Stars.  Billups would have been schweeet.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from concord27. Show concord27's posts

    Re: Delonte West versus Keyon Dooling

    Billups was never going to come our way due to the waiver chain. 
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from stillallbost08. Show stillallbost08's posts

    Re: Delonte West versus Keyon Dooling

    In Response to Re: Delonte West versus Keyon Dooling:
    Part of all of this is how Doc plays guys. Murphy did nothing for us last year and now he's getting minutes for the Lakers. Guys don't want to come to the Celtics if Doc is going to continue to play just the Big 4 most of the time. Doc has to start mixing in some other guys and let's see what they can contribute. Why not give Steimsma some minutes. Doc isn't a good developer of talent. He's good at having a rotation and not thinking outside of that rotation. When that rotation breaks down he doesn't trust other players to step up or even give them the chance. If he doesn't change this 66 game schedule is going to eat up and spit out the C's. I don't want Dooling. i would just rather go straight to Moore and let him make his mistakes early. Dooling adds no value. He was a last resort signing because West went elsewhere. Bring Bradley in for defense and Moore in for offense.
    Posted by BiasLewis


    care to take a wild guess on why Murphy is getting miutes right now?
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from CASox. Show CASox's posts

    Re: Delonte West versus Keyon Dooling

    In Response to Re: Delonte West versus Keyon Dooling:
    2 words, ONE GAME!
    Posted by 21st


    EXACTLY.... get a freakin grip people....
     
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