Doc and Baby lost this game

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from kyceltic. Show kyceltic's posts

    Re: Doc and Baby lost this game


     Pierce didn't exactly set the place on fire either, almost had as many turnovers as points! If Doc had left Daniels and Luke in, we would have had a better change, at least they looked like they wanted to play!! 
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from joel49. Show joel49's posts

    Re: Doc and Baby lost this game

    Pin this one on Doc.

    C's had it going at the start of the fourth quarter, sparked by Daniels and Harangody.  Midway through the period, Doc pulled them and the downward spiral began.  In almost thirteen minutes Luke led the team with a +18.  Daniels was +8 in just under twenty-five minutes.  By comparison Davis was -19 and Pierce and Allen were each a -9.  Where is it written that the starters have to finish the game?   

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Petey62. Show Petey62's posts

    Re: Doc and Baby lost this game

    In Response to Re: Doc and Baby lost this game:
     Pierce didn't exactly set the place on fire either, almost had as many turnovers as points! If Doc had left Daniels and Luke in, we would have had a better change, at least they looked like they wanted to play!! 
    Posted by kyceltic


    There were a number of areas we can point to as to why we lost but, for me, when your leader goes down, I EXPECT Ray and Pierce to come out aggressive.  I expect that, at some point, they are going to take over.  Ray took it to another level in the 4th quarter but Pierce continued to "let the game come to him".

    On a day when New Orleans basically was content losing the game, Pierce sat back and let them.  Again, Baby shot way too much and took that ill-advised 3 late but, IMO, Pierce is the leader first and he did not take it up a notch.

    If Pierce scores 24, we win going away.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from P34. Show P34's posts

    Re: Doc and Baby lost this game

    In Response to Re: Doc and Baby lost this game:
     Pierce didn't exactly set the place on fire either, almost had as many turnovers as points! If Doc had left Daniels and Luke in, we would have had a better change, at least they looked like they wanted to play!! 
    Posted by kyceltic


    Here we go again with the blame game. Remember when the Celtics were leading 75-74 then Ray Allen went behind the back with his dribble causing the ball to go out of bounds for a turnover? 
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from celticsboy11. Show celticsboy11's posts

    Re: Doc and Baby lost this game

    In Response to Re: Doc and Baby lost this game:
     Pierce didn't exactly set the place on fire either, almost had as many turnovers as points! If Doc had left Daniels and Luke in, we would have had a better change, at least they looked like they wanted to play!! 
    Posted by kyceltic


    you can't expect Pierce to be the hero every night can you. The man has been trying hard to carry this team on his back in many games, sometimes somebody has to step up.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from P34. Show P34's posts

    Re: Doc and Baby lost this game

    The Celtics usually get 24-25 assists per game, against NO they only 16. The reason for that is Rondo is not playing. We can't take for granted what Rondo does for this team. He makes the other players better.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from celticsboy11. Show celticsboy11's posts

    Re: Doc and Baby lost this game

    In Response to Re: Doc and Baby lost this game:
    Pin this one on Doc. C's had it going at the start of the fourth quarter, sparked by Daniels and Harangody.  Midway through the period, Doc pulled them and the downward spiral began.  In almost thirteen minutes Luke led the team with a +18.  Daniels was +8 in just under twenty-five minutes.  By comparison Davis was -19 and Pierce and Allen were each a -9.  Where is it written that the starters have to finish the game?   
    Posted by joel49



    You said it right on the money joal, perfectly said, I was trying to look up the stats to see whom it was on that squad that led the Celtics to a 16-0 run that Doc sat out and yes I do remember it was Daniels and Harongody that were leading the troops. Doc sometimes goes by the script and can't find it in himself to leave people in thats doing well. I dunno, it must be in the contract of the players so if they win the game, its better for press conferences where Pierce an Allen can have quotes, DON'T KNOW but it made no fckign sense, whatsoever to sub out that squad.

    The hornets couldn't score a basket to save their lives and I remember clearly seeing Pierce and Allen on the top of my screen heading to the scorers table and I said to myself, "No Doc, no, do not sub out this group". He did, and ever since, the Hornets started their comeback and then the lead and then the game.

    Even the Loafer, Jermaine Oneal, was doing well, he must've read the board here about him because he stepped up his game like he wanted to make a statement, lol. But yeah, even he was playing well but then Doc puts in Fat Glen and that fat phuk chucks up an unadvised that had my mouth Open. I was lost for words.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from davidap. Show davidap's posts

    Re: Doc and Baby lost this game

    In fairness to Rivers, the sqaud that went on a 16-0 run accomplished that run against New Orleans' second unit. When the Hornets called a timeout, they went back to their starters and Rivers stayed with the bench. Within a minute and a half, the Hornets starters cut the deficit from 7 points to 3, and that's when he went back to the first unit. So you need to keep two things in mind here:

    1. The 16-0 run was primarily second unit vs. second unit. That's not the same as going up against the starters.

    2. The second unit stayed in the game after the Hornets went back to their starters and the lead quickly dissipated.

    Yes, the Celtics starters didn't fare much better, and maybe the second unit would have gone on another run. But they may have been tired and they weren't doing as well as they had a few minutes earlier.

    I attribute this loss to:

    1. Glen Davis, all-round bad game.
    2. Poor ball-handling by practically everyone.
    3. Inconsistent effort.

    Here's what I'd like to see:

    1. Semih Erden play some more minutes. Good things seem to happen when he's in the game. Just because Jermaine O'Neal returned doesn't mean Erden should no longer be part of the regular season rotation.

    2. Von Wafer play some more minutes. He was touted as a good outside shooter. I'm not seeing much of that from him but I'm impressed by just about everything else he contributes. He's sneaky good on defense, he can rebound, he's very smooth on penetrations and up-and-unders, he's fast, and he doesn't make dumb mistakes. The more he plays, the more Pierce and Allen can rest, which is probably a good thing, both short-term and long-term.

    3. Luke Harangody play some more minutes. If Glen Davis is going to stubbornly fire up deep jumpers (and now three-pointers with plenty of time left on the shot clock), then give Harangody a chance. Davis is getting too confident with his outside game, and too careless with his inside game. How many times has he been blocked in the paint the last week? Harangody has even better shooting range than Davis and blocks out on rebounds. As with Erden, good things just seem to happen when Harangody enters the game.

    4. Feed the ball to Shaquille O'Neal only when he's within 3 feet of the basket. For the last week, he's receiving the ball 8-10 feet away and being asked to post his defender and take a wild hookshot. That's not his game. The guy can barely even shoot from 2 feet out, let alone 5+. Dish it to him from close range and let him dunk the ball. Do this early and often. The Celtics had a lot of success earlier in the year when they featured O'Neal in the first quarter.

    5. Play Daniels at the point instead of Robinson. The slamdunk champion just doesn't have the necessary court vision to be a floor general for lengthy stints. He's not a good passer, he doesn't take care of the ball particularly well, he's not a consistent shooter, and he doesn't recognize plays until a second too late. Daniels, conversely, has excellent instincts. While not a prototypical point guard, he dribbles as well as anyone on the team. He's a very well-rounded player who just needs an opportunity to flourish. He should play at least 15 minutes per game in place of Pierce and could probably get another 10 ahead of Robinson, at least for now while Rondo and West remain out with injuries.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Petey62. Show Petey62's posts

    Re: Doc and Baby lost this game

    We can definitely put this on Doc too.  But Pierce is the leader of this team and it's his responsibility to raise his game with KG out.  It's Pierce's responsibility MORE than it is Nate and Ray and Baby and JON's responsiblity.

    It starts with Pierce.  While announcing the game, Tommy kept urging Ray and Paul to "shoot the ball".  Ray took note and started putting it up with good results.  However, Paul never followed suit.  Pierce attempted only 10 shots.  If Paul started taking shots and got hot, you can bet Baby woud not have taken 14 shots.

    We need good performances by everyone but it has got to start with our leader and that is Pierce.  With KG and Rondo out, these guys(Pierce and Ray) cannot have less than 20 points in a game for the Celtics to be successful.  We just don't have any other sources for consistent offensive production.  Pierce just seemed out of it, bad defense and horrible offense (and turnovers).

    We will have to play better against a team we usually have trouble with on Sunday, Toronto.  Although due in part to injuries, here we go with our slump.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Celtsfan4life. Show Celtsfan4life's posts

    Re: Doc and Baby lost this game

    Someone said:  "here we go with the blame game".  That's right!  If the team did what this Board does, they'd fall apart.  Immediately everyone is "blaming" someone for the game.  Doc, Baby, Pierce, Ray, etc.  Guess what......They win as a team and they lose as a team.  Yes, Baby had a terrible game and the 3 was a dumb shot.  Ray wasn't aggressive until late.  Paul had too many turnovers.  But, the TEAM lost, not because of one individual.  Any one thing going better and we win.  But it didn't.... and its going to happen a lot now.

    We all know that Rondo and KG are missing and the backups are NOT all-star calibre players.  So, we all better get used to ugly games and .500 ball until we get Rondo and KG back.  But for goodness sake, I hope the team doesn't start blaming each other the way this Board does.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Petey62. Show Petey62's posts

    Re: Doc and Baby lost this game

    In Response to Re: Doc and Baby lost this game:
    Someone said:  "here we go with the blame game".  That's right!  If the team did what this Board does, they'd fall apart.  Immediately everyone is "blaming" someone for the game.  Doc, Baby, Pierce, Ray, etc.  Guess what......They win as a team and they lose as a team.  Yes, Baby had a terrible game and the 3 was a dumb shot.  Ray wasn't aggressive until late.  Paul had too many turnovers.  But, the TEAM lost, not because of one individual.  Any one thing going better and we win.  But it didn't.... and its going to happen a lot now. We all know that Rondo and KG are missing and the backups are NOT all-star calibre players.  So, we all better get used to ugly games and .500 ball until we get Rondo and KG back.  But for goodness sake, I hope the team doesn't start blaming each other the way this Board does.
    Posted by Celtsfan4life


    Celtsfan, this team cannot go 27 and 27 over our final 54 games this season again.  When you give up 83 points at home, you're supposed to win.  Everyone is to blame.  However someone has to take MORE blame than the others.  Winning these games, especially with the injuries we have, are so important.  Winning these games are the difference between playing in Miami or LA in a game 7 during the playoffs.
     
    You cannot place the same amount of blame on Luke that you place on Baby.  And Pierce is the leader of this team and he did not come to play.  That is unacceptable.  Pierce assumes the most blame.  On a night when KG and Rondo are out, Paul has got to step up MORE than Luke and JON and Baby.  He's our leader and today, he did not lead.

    I expected Pierce to come out blazin and carrying the Celtics on his shoulders.  With all things the same, if Pierce scores 24 points, we win going away.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from LightSaber. Show LightSaber's posts

    Re: Doc and Baby lost this game

    Same thing with Ray Allen, if he made that last shot the Celtics would have won by 1 point. And we won't be having a thread that says "Doc and Baby lost this game".
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from susan250. Show susan250's posts

    Re: Doc and Baby lost this game

    In Response to Re: Doc and Baby lost this game:
    It's pretty obvious Baby lost the game. Doc didn't make him take more shots than anyone else on the team. Play pathetic defense and get out rebounded by Nate. You can't expect much without Rondo and KG except for L's.
    Posted by tompenny


    Agree that Baby shouldn't have taken that shot.  Although, you can't blame one player for this loss.  Definitely no Rondo and KG will result in some losses for the Celtics. 
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from P34. Show P34's posts

    Re: Doc and Baby lost this game

    In Response to Re: Doc and Baby lost this game:
    In Response to Re: Doc and Baby lost this game : Agree that Baby shouldn't have taken that shot.  Although, you can't blame one player for this loss.  Definitely no Rondo and KG will result in some losses for the Celtics. 
    Posted by susan250


    The Lakers without Theo Ratliff lost 3 straight games. I don't think it's realistic to expect the Celtics to win a lot of games without KG, Rondo, West, and Perk. I mean that's almost half the team.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Celtsfan4life. Show Celtsfan4life's posts

    Re: Doc and Baby lost this game

    Sorry, Petey.  I'm with P34.  We're expecting too much for this team without Rondo, KG, Perk, and West.....with JON coming off a long injury + an old Shaq + an undersized Davis to not have some losses like this.  Its going to happen and we all better get used to it until they get at least one of those players back.

    Now - I agree Ray and Paul should be more aggressive....especially Ray.  Paul's been trying but Ray has too many "off periods".  But, that said - I'm not going to say one of them lost the game because he was cold or not playing well.  That's what teammates are for - to pick up the slack when you're off.  Unfortunately, the whole team did not pick up the slack for each other and made too many dumb plays.  One play at the end of the game does not "lose the game".  All game long, they played too even with NO and it came back to haunt them.   Ever heard the same:  Let these guys stay in the game and anything can happen at the end?   

    Also, we're NOT going to go 27 and 27.  This period of .500 will last for a couple of weeks, only.  I bet you anything this team will be playing great basketball again before the all-star break, assuming KG and Rondo are back.  This won't be last year's team.  This is temporary.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Petey62. Show Petey62's posts

    Re: Doc and Baby lost this game

    Celtsfan, you hit the nail on the head by saying "one play at the end of the game does not lose a game".  I don't blame Baby's horrible shot selection late or a missed shot by Ray.  But I do blame Pierce's overall performance as probably the most glaring factor contributing to the lost to NO.  And I do expect Pierce to "carry" this team until the reinforcements get back.  He even said as much during the post-game interview.

    We got decent contributions from alot of players (JON, Quis, Luke).  However, THAT won't get us the wins with KG and Rondo out.  It's got to be Pierce.  Pierce and Ray need to get NO LESS than 20 points each night until KG and Rondo return.

    I too believe this team will not go 27 and 27 but I would have never "thunk" it last season either.  And this is how it starts.  Yesterday's was a game the Celtics are supposed to win.

    Celtsfan and P34, with all due respect, you can talk about who isn't playing but when you allow only 83 points, you cannot lose.  We've seen two horrible games in one week and it's not because we lost KG and Rondo's out.

    THIS TEAM should expect to beat Detroit and THIS TEAM should expect to beat THAT Hornets team.  We are not playing Miami or the Lakers.

    THIS TEAM is better than Detroit and New Orleans but our leader HAS to lead and isn't doing that.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from BiasLewis. Show BiasLewis's posts

    Re: Doc and Baby lost this game

    Petey62, yes PP is the man right now. I tend to look at this another way. We have no post game right now. Any teams we face that have a good frontline, we're going to sruggle. Okafor and West killed us yesterday. Shaq, BBD and JON are going to have to play smarter, stronger, not commit stupid fouls and hit FTs when they get the chance. No teams are going to respect our bigs if our PF is going to shoot jumpers all day. Toronto doesn't have a great frontline so I want to see what our bigs do against them.

    I also expect PP to post up more but he's having to play out on the wing to handle the ball and then if he does post up they will double him.

    I respect your opinions and will watch PP more careful. I'm focusing more on the bigs though.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from soups. Show soups's posts

    Re: Doc and Baby lost this game

    In the third or fourth quarter las night, one of the Hornets hit a dire 3 pt shot with time expiring on the 24 second clock. Prayer of a shot that had no business falling.  C's played outstanding D on that possession and still gave up 3 points.
    C's missed 6 or 7 FTs, too.  How many turnovers last night?  Twenty? 

    All of the good points raised in this thread are still valid, but had one of the two above mentioned things gone the other way, the outcome of this game would've been a C's win.  And the bottom line is wins.

    Boston is hitting the same stretch it hit last year.  Poor shooting, turnovers, zero rebounding, getting killed in the transition game.  Is this the real Celtic's team, or just an early season slump?  Because Miami is gaining, and they're momentum going in the other direction.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Petey62. Show Petey62's posts

    Re: Doc and Baby lost this game

    BiasLewis, I agree with you regarding out frontline play.  IMO, we just haven't gotten much from the center position.  I think we've gotten good production from the PF position this season as well as the SF position.  We are not getting much from the center spot (points, rebounds, etc.).

    I will focus more on their play and the effect of their overall performance on the game's outcome.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Celtsfan4life. Show Celtsfan4life's posts

    Re: Doc and Baby lost this game

    In Response to Re: Doc and Baby lost this game:
    Celtsfan, you hit the nail on the head by saying " one play at the end of the game does not lose a game ".  I don't blame Baby's horrible shot selection late or a missed shot by Ray.  But I do blame Pierce's overall performance as probably the most glaring factor contributing to the lost to NO.  And I do expect Pierce to "carry" this team until the reinforcements get back.  He even said as much during the post-game interview. We got decent contributions from alot of players (JON, Quis, Luke).  However, THAT won't get us the wins with KG and Rondo out.  It's got to be Pierce.  Pierce and Ray need to get NO LESS than 20 points each night until KG and Rondo return. I too believe this team will not go 27 and 27 but I would have never "thunk" it last season either.  And this is how it starts.  Yesterday's was a game the Celtics are supposed to win. Celtsfan and P34, with all due respect, you can talk about who isn't playing but when you allow only 83 points, you cannot lose.  We've seen two horrible games in one week and it's not because we lost KG and Rondo's out. THIS TEAM should expect to beat Detroit and THIS TEAM should expect to beat THAT Hornets team.  We are not playing Miami or the Lakers. THIS TEAM is better than Detroit and New Orleans but our leader HAS to lead and isn't doing that.
    Posted by Petey62

    Intelligent Post, Petey.  I agree with many of your points, especially that Ray and Paul have to step it up offensively.  Both show they are capable (Ray late in yesterday's game, Paul the last few games).  Problem is they aren't there at the same time and when they pass up shots consistently, we end up with lesser shooters taking shots.  By the way, Paul had a bad game, but he's been stepping it up the past few games before that so I'm more disappointed that Ray disappears during games.  Ray's better than that and it showed when he got aggressive in the 4th qtr.  He needs to shoot 20 times or more!

    We just don't agree on whether or not we should expect to beat Detroit and NO and other such teams.  I'd LOVE to expect to beat these teams and I was disappointed we didn't.  But after watching, I also acknowledge that without a point guard of Rondo's calibre and without KG's easy buckets on dunks, fast breaks, and open J's......we are not as good offensively as I'd like.  Our play at the center position is also not as good as early in the year.   Shaq is to blame for some or it and some is because Rondo is not there to get him easy dunks.  So, I have lowered my expectations and I expect to lose 50% of these games to weak teams because we don't have the personnel.  Ray and Paul will have to show me that they can step it up every day.  

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from TTraveler. Show TTraveler's posts

    Re: Doc and Baby lost this game

    I think the Celtics should trade for James Posey. James is a great definder. If he was a  Celtic again he would give double what he is giving now or more. He'd be proud to play with the Celtic team mate he'd have. Danny could figure out how to make this deal easy. let me know what you think

    TTraveler, celtic fan for  50 years and for ever
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from P34. Show P34's posts

    Re: Doc and Baby lost this game

    In Response to Re: Doc and Baby lost this game:
    I think the Celtics should trade for James Posey. James is a great definder. If he was a  Celtic again he would give double what he is giving now or more. He'd be proud to play with the Celtic team mate he'd have. Danny could figure out how to make this deal easy. let me know what you think TTraveler, celtic fan for  50 years and for ever
    Posted by TTraveler


    Who would the Celtics offer for James Posey?
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Celtsfan4life. Show Celtsfan4life's posts

    Re: Doc and Baby lost this game

    And in answering that question, remember that:

    a. It has to be someone the other team wants and
    b. The salaries have to match


     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Celtsfan4life. Show Celtsfan4life's posts

    Re: Doc and Baby lost this game

    Just looked at Salaries:

    Posey makes over $7m.

    To make the trade work, you could send Marquis and JON ($2.3M and $5.7M).

    Now, would Indiana do that deal?  Would the GMs on this Board to it? 

    With Perk back and Erden playing well, Celts could be better with that deal but I hate to give up on JON before seeing him play for another month.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Celtsfan4life. Show Celtsfan4life's posts

    Re: Doc and Baby lost this game

    Found a better one:

    JON + Von Wafer for James Posey.   Those salaries are within range.

    Now THAT'S a trade I'd do!
     
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