Doc blew that game

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from bramrok. Show bramrok's posts

    Doc blew that game

     You cant win going small against Miami. He should have had one of the Oneals in the ballgame toward the end. Going small plays into Miami's hands. I think we win game 5 and 6, but I am not sure about game 7, but Miami thinks they have won and they have not. The Celtics have too much pride to lose in 5.
     
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  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from concord27. Show concord27's posts

    Re: Doc blew that game

    I was not happy with Doc's game management the whole game.  He seems too stubborn to find spot in the game to experiment with players that would actually help.  We have a bench of guys sitting who never play with very old players playing way too many minutes. We can't win with this model this year.
     
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  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Celtsfan4life. Show Celtsfan4life's posts

    Re: Doc blew that game

    Yes, that's it. Let's experiment against a team when our playoff lives are there.  Notice Miami and Dallas and Memphis and OKC and Chicago and Atlanta aren't "experimenting"?  Why are they winning - because their players are delivering. Ours did not deliver (execute) tonight.  The Coach wasn't the problem nor was the GM (Danny) nor were the refs.  We lost because KG went 1 for 10 and every player on the floor in the last quarter missed shots that were there for us......and oh yes - we lost because of our OLDEST PROBLEM:  turnovers!!!!  
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from fenwayjack2. Show fenwayjack2's posts

    Re: Doc blew that game

    In Response to Doc blew that game:
    [QUOTE] You cant win going small against Miami. He should have had one of the Oneals in the ballgame toward the end. Going small plays into Miami's hands. I think we win game 5 and 6, but I am not sure about game 7, but Miami thinks they have won and they have not. The Celtics have too much pride to lose in 5.
    Posted by bramrok[/QUOTE]

    One of the Oneals?  Lololol.  My cat can move better than Shaquille and she's been dead for 3 years.  Wade will not allow the Heat to lose. 
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from MrJohnnyMost. Show MrJohnnyMost's posts

    Re: Doc blew that game

    A 13 point 4th quarter ???? Outrebounded 45 to 28 ???

    I have no idea what that "play" was at the end of regulation. They'd have done better to go wide 4 corners and let PP solo in the middle. What was that mess???

    As we have seen, this Miami team is very beatable. We had them tonight.

    Now, we're in the coffin, talking to the angels. Can we climb out?

    Yes, but not if these guys have to play 40 plus minutes. Don't blame the players. They played their guts out. This was Grady staying with Pedro.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from futbal. Show futbal's posts

    Re: Doc blew that game

    For those who say using Murphy, an 11 rebound/game, 3 point shooting threat is expiremental, I offer you two words P.J. Brown (actually 2 initials and the guys last name). Played 18 games in regular season and 25 playoff games in 2007-2008...Danny brought in reinforcements.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from donquique. Show donquique's posts

    Re: Doc blew that game

    i though that Pierce sat too long in the 4th quarter. That is my only criticism.
     
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  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from aciemvp. Show aciemvp's posts

    Re: Doc blew that game

    In Response to Re: Doc blew that game:
    [QUOTE]I was not happy with Doc's game management the whole game.  He seems too stubborn to find spot in the game to experiment with players that would actually help.  We have a bench of guys sitting who never play with very old players playing way too many minutes. We can't win with this model this year.
    Posted by concord27[/QUOTE]

    a bench full of young or younger guys who never play.  welcome to the doc/danny school of short sighted thinking.  jeff green should be a major contributor RIGHT NOW, and as of before the playoffs began.  we had enough time, doc did not have enough coaching ability to get it done. 

    green can play some D on lebron and run the pants off of him.  pierce can't do both any more.  pierce could play D on someone like james jones though or someone else on the floor, give him a break for goodness sakes.

    i've been hollering for ray to be brought off the bench starting in '09 in order to keep this team relevant but what did they do?  they upped his minutes!!  34 then 35, more and more each year.  the formula for failure and the hallmarks of a lousy coach who had other pieces to spell the older guys.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from candre99. Show candre99's posts

    Re: Doc blew that game

    when has doc ever coached well down the stretch?
    this is nothing new.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from edcap99. Show edcap99's posts

    Re: Doc blew that game

    In Response to Re: Doc blew that game:
    [QUOTE]Yes, that's it. Let's experiment against a team when our playoff lives are there.  Notice Miami and Dallas and Memphis and OKC and Chicago and Atlanta aren't "experimenting"?  Why are they winning - because their players are delivering. Ours did not deliver (execute) tonight.  The Coach wasn't the problem nor was the GM (Danny) nor were the refs.  We lost because KG went 1 for 10 and every player on the floor in the last quarter missed shots that were there for us......and oh yes - we lost because of our OLDEST PROBLEM:  turnovers!!!!  
    Posted by Celtsfan4life[/QUOTE]To experiment with player rotations and substitutions without a game plan will likely prove disastrous. However, Doc Rivers had enough time and practice sessions to make such adjustments. Playing KG, PP and RA forty plus minutes is ridiculous and irresponsible. KG, in particular, was noticeably gassed out at the endgame. Doc could have at least planned on making use of the reserves to ensure that our starters would have fresh legs to finish the game. The Celtics are the oldest team in the league. It is not realistic to compare the fitness and stamina of our players with those of the teams you enumerated.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Karllost. Show Karllost's posts

    Re: Doc blew that game

    I dont consider giving Murph or Kristic or even Wafer some minutes as an experiemnt. Wafer been here all season, the other two long enough..

    But the real point is this. If some of our regulars are struggling or tired and hurting the team.... its not taking a huge risk to replace them for 3-5 minutes with someone fresh and not worn out. Its not a matter of is Murph better than KG or BBD... Its a matter of have those players are performing RIGHT NOW.

    Is James Jones a better player than Ray? No... but he was in game 1..  You never know what ur gonna get cause most all nba players are capable.  Were we expecting BBD to be so good in the playoffs the past 2 years? NO... he was a forgotten man until KG got hurt but surprise... he delivered and to everyones surprise

    Thats why giving Wafer some minutes when Ray is struggling isnt such a bad idea...could actually give us a big boost and Ray some rest.. etc, etc

    Its not like we're taking out Ray who's 5-6 from 3 point land and inserting Wafer... applies to everyone on the team. 
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Sean67. Show Sean67's posts

    Re: Doc blew that game

    The play to end the 4th Quarter was awful.  What were Allen and KG SUPPOSED to be doing? 

    There were too many poor possessions mid-4th Quarter.  Too many bad shots, too many turnovers without getting a shot.  A timeout NEEDED to be called.  That's on Doc.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Karllost. Show Karllost's posts

    Re: Doc blew that game

    In Response to Re: Doc blew that game:
    [QUOTE]The play to end the 4th Quarter was awful.  What were Allen and KG SUPPOSED to be doing?  There were too many poor possessions mid-4th Quarter.  Too many bad shots, too many turnovers without getting a shot.  A timeout NEEDED to be called.  That's on Doc.
    Posted by Sean67[/QUOTE]

    Very true.. I was screaming in the Game Thread for Doc to call a timeout... but he didnt hear it..

    He was yelling on the court to move and stop walking but they didnt... thats when he needed to call a TO or make a substitution cause maybe they were tired... I dont know.  but needed to stop that stretch of bad play and refocus
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from concord27. Show concord27's posts

    Re: Doc blew that game

    Doc had a difficult job with the Rondo injury but he should have realized especially with West so hot that Rondo needed to sit at crunch time.  You had a guy who they knew could not shoot or play fully.  How much of an advantage was that!
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from jimcisco. Show jimcisco's posts

    Re: Doc blew that game

    How can you say Doc blew it? He didn't throw away at least 10 lazy passes that cost the team at least 6 - 8 points. Example: KG's pass in the paint to Rondo that bounced over Rondo's head as he was cutting to the basket, another Rondo's pass at half court that King James stole and jammed... Doc draws up the play and KG / Ray Allen can't execute and set a pick. C'mon, last night was the players fault... BTW has anyone seen Big Baby, he has been missing this whole series.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from aciemvp. Show aciemvp's posts

    Re: Doc blew that game

    In Response to Re: Doc blew that game:
    [QUOTE]How can you say Doc blew it? He didn't throw away at least 10 lazy passes that cost the team at least 6 - 8 points. Example: KG's pass in the paint to Rondo that bounced over Rondo's head as he was cutting to the basket, another Rondo's pass at half court that King James stole and jammed... Doc draws up the play and KG / Ray Allen can't execute and set a pick. C'mon, last night was the players fault... BTW has anyone seen Big Baby, he has been missing this whole series.
    Posted by jimcisco[/QUOTE]

    yeah.  easy guy to blame, huh?  strained patellar tendon is not a hang nail of an injury though.  instead of continuing to run davis a lot down the stretch, a wiser move would have been to put jeff green out there for more minutes.

    but doc has never been known for wiser moves.  dandy out of bounds plays and that's about it.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bird-to-DJ. Show Bird-to-DJ's posts

    Re: Doc blew that game

    Wow - I don't get some people here... Not sure how Doc blew the game... Several thoughts...

    IMO the key stretch was the middle of the 4th qtr.  I don't remember each possession, but we were up 3-4 and had several great defensive stops in a row, but couldn't extend the lead - Rondo & JGreen miss a 2-1 for a turnover, DWest passes up a 3 to throw it into KG who doesn't dunk it and misses the contested shot inside; missed wide open 3... I believe there was another miss, BBD maybe.  Had a great opportunity to go up 6-8 points... You CANNOT miss those opporutnities in games like this...

    A few other random thoughts...

    Have to give some credit to Lebron's 3 to tie it... just a huge moment and a huge shot.

    They had run that end of game play multiple times in the past... basically an exchage b/t RA and KG to help give Ray some space and then KG to set a ball screen & pop for PP.  For whatever reason, they got tangled up and the execution wasn't there.  That is one of the difference between us and the Heat, PP on a clear out isn't a great option vs. Lebron while the Heat had two clear-out type players.  The only real clear-out advantage we might have had was Rondo and that certianly wasn't an option last night.  Again, there was nothing wrong with the play - another timeout wasn't going to help... We didn't execute.

    Rondo's missed lay-up was huge.

    As a coach - in that game (nearly a must win) you DO NOT experiment and you go with the players you trust.  If it had been SAantonio and not the C's in that position, TD and Manu would have also played massive minutes.  As a coach, you aren't going to put VWafer in there if you think he might do any of the myriad dumb things he did during the season.  As a coach and player - if you are going to come up short you come up short with your best.  Their minutes last game might have influenced the OT, but didn't play in regulation where we needed ot win the game... RA gave us the lead with 2 mins to go.

    Is the above the result of season long issues of DOC not "trusting" his bench and developing them as many argue (aciemvp)?  I don't agree but arguing that is akin to proving a negative.  In the end, Doc hasd an established 8-man playoff rotation.  That is the norm in the playoffs - nobody plays a true 9 or 10 man rotation.  Triple OT in the Mem/OKC game and memphis only plays 8 players over 10 minutes total and while OKC plays ten players the top 8 play over 90% of the total minutes.  Game 3 Lakers/Mavs - Lakers play 8 and Mavs 9 but only 6 play 15+.  This play TMurphy (and sit KG, really?) stuff just doesn't make playoff sense to me... Tmurphy instead of BBD, in retorspect couldn't hurt but there is no reason to expect it would work... If this sounds stubborn, fine - but you go with your best.

    As commented above - I think we gift wrapped ~8+ points for the Heat due to careless turnovers...

    If you focus on our defense, it was very good.  The majority of our issues were, as they have been most of the second half of the season (and game 7 last year), on the offensive end and the recurring TO's/lulls we need to fight through.  In no way do I see how Perk changes that unless you believe he simply has some special aura about him.  BTW Perk was -10 last night for OKC in the +/- department.

    The point of all this is not to say Doc is blameless, but more than enough happened ON THE COURT (to include several great Heat plays) that could have and maybe should have made this a 2-2 series, that to blame Doc ("Doc blew the game") is difficult to understand.  We had a great chance to really put the pressure on the Heat during that stretch in the middle of the 4th.  We didn't get it done.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from jam757. Show jam757's posts

    Re: Doc blew that game

    Bottom line is this....If Rondo is 100% there is no way in hell that we lose that game. Not makin' excuses...just sayin'! Also, this series is not over yet. Get it back to Boston for game six and anyting can happen. Those blaming Pierce have no idea what they're talking about. KG and Ray botched that play and Pierce was left on his own. There's enough balme to go around. We played hard with a 55% Rondo and just came up a bit short. I'm proud as hell of this team...
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from futbal. Show futbal's posts

    Re: Doc blew that game

    Doc blew the game because KG was too gassed to contribute and Rondo was too dinged to contribute in the stretch. Fairly obvious because they both missed critical layups, and had mental lapses (KG in particular but Rondo as well such as that bullet bounce pass to Green with the weird English on it) (Doc yanks Green right after that play as if it was his fault for Rondo's crazy pass). Rondo will forever be endeared to Celtics fans for his courage, but in the fourth quarter he was an enormous liability on the offensive end. In 2007-2008, Doc spread it out with Posey and Jeff Green can play that roll, and Doc finally went with that in OT when it was too late. KG needed a lot more rest; Doc asked too much of him in a 50 hour span of time...
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from jeezem. Show jeezem's posts

    Re: Doc blew that game

    get KG back in the post.  Play inside out and make it a pound out grind of a game.  Establish an inside game and control the tempo.  Drive to the basket and maybe get some foul calls.  Why make it so easy on Miami to play defense, pass it around a while and shoot a deep jump shot? - maybe get some pick and roll with KG and Pierce old school.  They need to revamp their offensive plan.  You win only when you score more points than the other team.  Defense is great, but you gotta put the ball in the basket.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from cshashaty. Show cshashaty's posts

    Re: Doc blew that game

    In Response to Doc blew that game:
    [QUOTE] You cant win going small against Miami. He should have had one of the Oneals in the ballgame toward the end. Going small plays into Miami's hands. I think we win game 5 and 6, but I am not sure about game 7, but Miami thinks they have won and they have not. The Celtics have too much pride to lose in 5.
    Posted by bramrok[/QUOTE]

    I would have started the OT with Shaq or Krstic just to get some offense going.

    I would have increased Green's minutes and kept Baby on the bench. Baby's a not a good fit for this series.

    I would have played Arroyo and taken advantage of his desire for revenge.

    I would have played Krstic in the 4Q (again for offense) when they were struggling to score.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from BigJoedaddyBoston. Show BigJoedaddyBoston's posts

    Re: Doc blew that game

    In Response to Re: Doc blew that game:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Doc blew that game : Very true.. I was screaming in the Game Thread for Doc to call a timeout... but he didnt hear it.. He was yelling on the court to move and stop walking but they didnt... thats when he needed to call a TO or make a substitution cause maybe they were tired... I dont know.  but needed to stop that stretch of bad play and refocus
    Posted by Karllost[/QUOTE]


    Good point!! I don't think it was all DOc's fault but he did make some stupid moves = one being keeping in BBD. not playing green more.  Yes, I think it was stupid going small at the end.  Keep JO in.  Foolish!!  His coaching definitely hurt as well as the turnovers, sloppy passes,  KG being ice cold and not setting picks and screens
     
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