Had to give Doug Collins credit. He had his team kept on playing, kept on believing the game was not over, being aggressive, and not giving up no matter what the score. That coaching/motivation worked for the 6ers. Doc on the other hand, was coaching the opposite way. He allowed his team to feel too comfortable with an 18pt. lead, thinking they could just run out the clock. When they (6ers) were cutting the lead inch by inch, Doc had no answer for their comeback. The lesson here is you can never be too comfortable with any lead at all, and you have to keep playing.
Doc outcoached
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Doc outcoached
posted at 5/19/2012 12:32 PM EDT
- sk8brd
- Posts: 168
- First: 4/17/2009
- Last: 6/11/2012
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Re: Doc outcoached
posted at 5/19/2012 12:43 PM EDT
- jam757
- Posts: 529
- First: 10/13/2009
- Last: 3/14/2013
Yes he was out coached in the 2nd half. With that said we did completely run out of gas and looked like a very tired team. We needed a lot more production from the bench on a night like this. Jeff Green would have come in handy as well as Wilcox. Oh well, 2 days of rest and come back with firepower in game 5!!! -
Re: Doc outcoached
posted at 5/19/2012 12:51 PM EDT
- scubber
- Posts: 1175
- First: 3/16/2007
- Last: 5/4/2013
KG needed more rest and help inside. You can't have him in alone by himself as a big for that long such that he has to do so much rotating and crashing the board with him as the only one big. Dooling is another one that is a bad match up defensively as is obviously Ray Allen. You can give them some playing time but when it does not work, you need to make changes and not be stubborn. If Ray does not do well, changing to more Pietrus or especially more Bass should be tried. At least we would have gotten more defense and rebound which were much needed as well. -
Re: Doc outcoached
posted at 5/19/2012 1:03 PM EDT
- concord27
- Posts: 7568
- First: 6/16/2009
- Last: 5/22/2013
In Response to Re: Doc outcoached:KG needed more rest and help inside. You can't have him in alone by himself as a big for that long such that he has to do so much rotating and crashing the board with him as the only one big. Dooling is another one that is a bad match up defensively as is obviously Ray Allen. You can give them some playing time but when it does not work, you need to make changes and not be stubborn. If Ray does not do well, changing to more Pietrus or especially more Bass should be tried. At least we would have gotten more defense and rebound which were much needed as well.
Posted by scubber
You could not be more right. Doc by keeping Ray in put the game at risk. Open threes all over the floor in the third and fourth period. Why did Doc not act when his worst nightmare was starting to unfold? -
Re: Doc outcoached
posted at 5/19/2012 1:48 PM EDT
- fantom
- Posts: 3
- First: 3/28/2011
- Last: 5/19/2012
Simply put Doc Rivers is the worst tactical coach in all sports, not just basketball. He must have some real embarrassing pix of Danny to have gotten the contract that he did. He does not know how to manage his players and never has, not a clue. Hollins is pathetic, but Doc likes his energy? Replace him with Williams who is a banger, blocker and hometown kid. Is Stiemsma injured? If not why DNP -- COACH'S DECISION and if he is injured why not try Williams? Why sit Bass who was playing his best game of the series---is he injured? The injury is Doc's inability to coach, nice man, but not a good coach. Ray is hurting, so why not try Pavlovic--what it there to lose? Say what you will about Pietrus's defense, but on offense the man is useless and does not seem to understand that going to the hoop is even an option. If they bring him back next year they are out of their minds. Thank the lord that they are off till Monday. Anybody, what now? Please help me out of this funk. -
Re: Doc outcoached
posted at 5/19/2012 2:21 PM EDT
- Schumpeters-Ghost
- Posts: 4559
- First: 12/13/2008
- Last: 5/21/2013
When Garnett got hit with the technical I was yelling at my television "call time out right here - call time out"
But Doc didn't call time out - and the momentum swing was enormous. Then he waited and waited.
I think he figured his veterans could handle the frenetic activity. He was wrong. -
Re: Doc outcoached
posted at 5/19/2012 2:57 PM EDT
- walk2run
- Posts: 1337
- First: 10/13/2004
- Last: 8/25/2012
KG has got to realize if his shot ain't working ....please attack the hoop. But I have been askin this of him for years now but to no avail....just opponents successful fast breaks! -
Re: Doc outcoached
posted at 5/19/2012 3:15 PM EDT
- antiqueman1
- Posts: 2249
- First: 8/13/2009
- Last: 5/22/2013
In Response to Re: Doc outcoached:Yes he was out coached in the 2nd half. With that said we did completely run out of gas and looked like a very tired team. We needed a lot more production from the bench on a night like this. Jeff Green would have come in handy as well as Wilcox. Oh well, 2 days of rest and come back with firepower in game 5!!!
Posted by jam757
Can only get production from the bench if he plays the bench. -
Re: Doc outcoached
posted at 5/19/2012 3:19 PM EDT
- celticsince1958
- Posts: 292
- First: 2/12/2007
- Last: 5/16/2013
Doc is a great locker room coach.......but a pathetic game coach. The Celtics are done as winners with him as a coach.
Bench Steimsma? Dah!
Give Bass 22 minutes? Dah!
Play Allen 32 minutes? Dah!
Play Hollins? Dah!
Play Williams? YES....WHY NOT? -
Re: Doc outcoached
posted at 5/19/2012 3:23 PM EDT
- BiasLewis
- Posts: 4262
- First: 5/30/2008
- Last: 6/30/2012
Doc tried to play a small lineup twice and I never undrstood it. He had Rondo. Bradley, RA, PP and KG probably expecting them to score more but what happened was we had no rebounding and it hurt our defense. I'm also noticing that Doc is going to Hollins more than Steimsma. If Bass isn't scoring I would like to see more of KG/Steimsma or KG/Hollins for the size.
Those two and-1s that Lou Williams got were just cheap cheap fouls.
It's hard to put that type of collapse on one area but one thing for sure Doc has to play the bench more and play to get to the 4th quarter...not win it in the first half.
I'm always leery of fast our starts...never liked them. If anything I like us when we make runs before the half and late 3rd quarter. -
Re: Doc outcoached
posted at 5/19/2012 4:47 PM EDT
- RdmCeltic
- Posts: 13
- First: 11/16/2009
- Last: 4/20/2013
Agreed! Happy to find someone that see it too. Doc is, like someone pointed above, an awful game time coach. Good locker room or practice coaches should be assistant coaches, never head coaches. It costs us lots of games, not only this one. And what about the short rotation thing? You have a 15 players roster, 12 dressed for play, some very good hole players and he just doesn`t use them, it`s just stupid. And people are claiming for more bench production. What bench???? He doesn`t play the bench!!! In Response to Re: Doc outcoached:Simply put Doc Rivers is the worst tactical coach in all sports, not just basketball. He must have some real embarrassing pix of Danny to have gotten the contract that he did. He does not know how to manage his players and never has, not a clue. Hollins is pathetic, but Doc likes his energy? Replace him with Williams who is a banger, blocker and hometown kid. Is Stiemsma injured? If not why DNP -- COACH'S DECISION and if he is injured why not try Williams? Why sit Bass who was playing his best game of the series---is he injured? The injury is Doc's inability to coach, nice man, but not a good coach. Ray is hurting, so why not try Pavlovic--what it there to lose? Say what you will about Pietrus's defense, but on offense the man is useless and does not seem to understand that going to the hoop is even an option. If they bring him back next year they are out of their minds. Thank the lord that they are off till Monday. Anybody, what now? Please help me out of this funk.
Posted by fantom -
Re: Doc outcoached
posted at 5/19/2012 4:58 PM EDT
- CA_Sox
- Posts: 592
- First: 4/20/2012
- Last: 8/29/2012
Without a doubt this loss was due to Doc... why in the world Bass sat most of the second half is beyond me...and playing small ball?? Um that was not working and the main reason why the 76ers had 17 offensive rebounds.... KG was exhausted and yet he played him over 40 mins?? Let see how that affects him in the next game....and Ray Allen? there was no reason to have him out there in the fourth quarter...he was completely ineffective offensively and defensively.... -
Re: Doc outcoached
posted at 5/19/2012 5:11 PM EDT
- scubber
- Posts: 1175
- First: 3/16/2007
- Last: 5/4/2013
In the rotating defense we need to have another big, one KG is not enough. KG could not go up and effectively defend pick and roll or trap wing player because he invariably will be out of position for the rebound. All second half, they have two big guys in the paint even on long range shots, they were in good positions for getting the offensive rebound.
Then on the other end, KG was double team and we had pretty much no chance at any offensive rebound. And it was very visible that he was tired, it was not optimal way to use our available personnel. -
Re: Doc outcoached
posted at 5/19/2012 11:01 PM EDT
- KillaCam2010
- Posts: 68
- First: 11/1/2009
- Last: 5/19/2013
I think Doc is a great coach, that being said game 4 was not his best. I don't understand why KG played so much in the 2nd and why BB so little. But, what I had the biggest problem was that CPP was not given the ball every position in the last 5 minutes. He was the only celtic that seemed willing to take it to the hoop when the refs were calling the most ticky tac fouls, not to mention he had his shot going. -
Re: Doc outcoached
posted at 5/19/2012 11:36 PM EDT
- Celtsfan4life
- Posts: 5811
- First: 3/12/2010
- Last: 5/19/2013
Wow, the Celtic fan hate on a successful coach is amazing.Celtic fans:o Rondo is inconsistent and didn't show up and that's why we losto Pierce has to deliver and gave us nothing, missing a critical layupo Ray is pathetico Pietrus is the worse shooter and I hate it that he won't drive.....oops, wait, he hit two shots so he's actually not bado Bradley is giving us nothing in the playoffso Bass is too hesitant to shoot, can't play D, and won't rebound......oops, why wasn't Bass playing more - he actually hit some shotso Doc is a terrible game coach. He can't coach and is the worst tactical coach IN ALL OF SPORTS!!!!!!o Garnett is truly termendous....wait - he had a bad game so he is soft and won't go to the basket!o Our bench gives us nothing - Dooling is terrible, we hate Marquis, Sasha can't keep up, Why is Hollins even on the floor at all.....wait, the bench can't produce because Doc doesn't play them.I am amazed that the Celtics are tied 2 to 2 with a team in the second round of the playoffs as bad as this Board makes them sound. Please, fellow fans, let's finish up with the harsh criticism and move to the phase where we start to believe in this team, again. At some point, let's move on and know that this is a team with a lot of heart and it was just a loss....like every team in the playoffs except the Spurs, we had a loss but we are still alive and still favored to win the series.Love my Celtics....and their Coach. They will rise in the next game and kick Philly's azz. -
Re: Doc outcoached
posted at 5/20/2012 8:44 AM EDT
- lakerfaker
- Posts: 250
- First: 4/28/2012
- Last: 12/29/2012
In Response to Re: Doc outcoached:Wow, the Celtic fan hate on a successful coach is amazing. Celtic fans: o Rondo is inconsistent and didn't show up and that's why we lost o Pierce has to deliver and gave us nothing, missing a critical layup o Ray is pathetic o Pietrus is the worse shooter and I hate it that he won't drive.....oops, wait, he hit two shots so he's actually not bad o Bradley is giving us nothing in the playoffs o Bass is too hesitant to shoot, can't play D, and won't rebound......oops, why wasn't Bass playing more - he actually hit some shots o Doc is a terrible game coach. He can't coach and is the worst tactical coach IN ALL OF SPORTS!!!!!! o Garnett is truly termendous....wait - he had a bad game so he is soft and won't go to the basket! o Our bench gives us nothing - Dooling is terrible, we hate Marquis, Sasha can't keep up, Why is Hollins even on the floor at all.....wait, the bench can't produce because Doc doesn't play them. I am amazed that the Celtics are tied 2 to 2 with a team in the second round of the playoffs as bad as this Board makes them sound. Please, fellow fans, let's finish up with the harsh criticism and move to the phase where we start to believe in this team, again. At some point, let's move on and know that this is a team with a lot of heart and it was just a loss....like every team in the playoffs except the Spurs, we had a loss but we are still alive and still favored to win the series. Love my Celtics....and their Coach. They will rise in the next game and kick Philly's azz.
Posted by Celtsfan4life
You want to see something really funny go to a game thread where you guys when and certain players are playing well an read the posts. You would think a guy was stinking up the joint and after the game his stats will be 25 pts 12 reb, 8 assists, or something like that. It is really funny reads. -
Re: Doc outcoached
posted at 5/20/2012 9:06 AM EDT
- breaktime
- Posts: 2557
- First: 6/28/2007
- Last: 5/19/2013
Prediction: This thread will be buried by more favorable threads after Game 5.
This is a tuff series. But we'll have 2 days rest before Game 5 and if need be, Game 7.
Wish we could have it wrapped up or be up 3-1 now, but injuries, a thin bench, and off nights by R9R and KG have kept that from happening more so than any of Doc's questionable decisions.
IMHO, Game 5 won't' have a letdown. -
Re: Doc outcoached
posted at 5/21/2012 4:09 AM EDT
- aciemvp
- Posts: 3039
- First: 3/7/2008
- Last: 5/21/2013
With all due respect to doug collins, Jimmy Rodgers outcoached dog the last game and he hasn't coached in 15+ years. -
Re: Doc outcoached
posted at 5/21/2012 9:30 AM EDT
- scubber
- Posts: 1175
- First: 3/16/2007
- Last: 5/4/2013
From Washburn article this morning, why does it take one quarter and a half of slow death spiral to not make any adjustment?
“It goes game to game, it really does,’’ Rivers said when asked about the effectiveness of his small lineup. “I think honestly if we made one mistake we should have went back to Bass [and the bigger lineup]. The first three games our small lineup was a better lineup than our big lineup. Statistically in Game 4, the big lineup was better. The big lineup is what got us the lead. The big lineup is what in the beginning of the third got us off to a good start. Both times when we went small, it actually hurt us.
http://www.boston.com/sports/basketball/celtics/articles/2012/05/21/doc_rivers_unsure_about_celtics_defensive_lineup_for_game_5/?p1=Well_Sports_links -
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Re: Doc outcoached
posted at 5/21/2012 9:32 PM EDT
- breaktime
- Posts: 2557
- First: 6/28/2007
- Last: 5/19/2013
In Response to Re: Doc outcoached:Prediction: This thread will be buried by more favorable threads after Game 5. This is a tuff series. But we'll have 2 days rest before Game 5 and if need be, Game 7. Wish we could have it wrapped up or be up 3-1 now, but injuries, a thin bench, and off nights by R9R and KG have kept that from happening more so than any of Doc's questionable decisions. IMHO, Game 5 won't' have a letdown.
Posted by breaktime
Let the favorable threads begin......... -
Re: Doc outcoached
posted at 5/21/2012 9:46 PM EDT
- Mployee8
- Posts: 5991
- First: 7/8/2008
- Last: 5/21/2013
In Response to Re: Doc outcoached:Doc may have cost the game, but it wasnt because he told them to relax. Doc is always trying to get them to play the right way, run sets and not run out the clock, so thats foolish to say some B.S. like that. The real problem was playing with a small lineup for that long with guys like Bass and Hollins available. T. Young is too big for P.P. and kills us on the glass. We left A.I. open at the 3 all 4thquarter because P.P. had to help on the penetration. Before Ray plays that many minutes and isnt hitting shots, they need to play Sasha or Marquis. Guys that will get stops and can convert easy layups on breaks. Peitrus had been up and down, I dont see why is the only rotation guy...smh
Posted by patsfan76
Make note CF4L ... make note ... good post!