Doc Rivers: ‘Chicago’s tougher than us’

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    Re: Doc Rivers: ‘Chicago’s tougher than us’

    Is it the players or is it the playcalling by the coach that the Celts have become a jump shooting team.  After all, they do have three players that can drive/slash/cut to the basket in PP, RR and AB.
     
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    Re: Doc Rivers: ‘Chicago’s tougher than us’

    1. Ray Allen is back: We loose two games in a row.
    2. Doc benches Steisma: We loose two games in a row
    3. The big three play too many minutes: We loose two games in a row.
    4. We play small ball: We loose two games in a row.

    So who is the problem here? The answer is simple....Doc!!!!!!!

    And then Doc rips on his players!!! What is wrong with the man? Doesn't he ever see his own failings? Does he have too much pride to admit that he makes mistakes? Or could there be another problem with him?..........Low IQ???

    For example: Celtics are a poor rebounding and blocking team, so Doc benches Steisma.
     
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    Re: Doc Rivers: ‘Chicago’s tougher than us’

    On two occasions this year the Celtics have been forced to play differently due to injuries losing multiple games and going under .500. Each time the Celtics have rallied and then as players come back to the line up they have lost their aggressiveness.  It is too early to make that conclusion this time but if we struggle the next two key games the direction for this team is to without a doubt to cut the minutes of the big three and find rotations that allow for this hyper aggressive defense to stay on court for 48 minutes. Forget what we can't do now which is rebound as well as other teams and stick a defense on other teams that they can't penetrate.
     
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    Re: Doc Rivers: ‘Chicago’s tougher than us’

    In Response to Re: Doc Rivers: ‘Chicago’s tougher than us’:
    [QUOTE]On two occasions this year the Celtics have been forced to play differently due to injuries losing multiple games and going under .500. Each time the Celtics have rallied and then as players come back to the line up they have lost their aggressiveness.  It is too early to make that conclusion this time but if we struggle the next two key games the direction for this team is to without a doubt to cut the minutes of the big three and find rotations that allow for this hyper aggressive defense to stay on court for 48 minutes. Forget what we can't do now which is rebound as well as other teams and stick a defense on other teams that they can't penetrate.
    Posted by concord27[/QUOTE]

    funny about rebounding, last nite there was I bet between 5-10 times the C's had the position to get a rebound and it goes over their head and the Bulls ended up with it. Are we too far under the basket? Maybe. Do the wing players not crash enough? Either way were not going to be anyone with our rebounding. Of course IMO rebounding is "desire" as much as anything.  I don't think we focus on that enough. Seems like the posters here bring it up enough but you really don't hear Doc talk about it much.
     
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    Re: Doc Rivers: ‘Chicago’s tougher than us’

    In Response to Re: Doc Rivers: ‘Chicago’s tougher than us’:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Doc Rivers: ‘Chicago’s tougher than us’ : If you watch guys like DeAndre Jordan, Serge Ibaka, Joakim Noah, Dwight Howard, and all the other young big men rebound, they don't wait for the ball to come down, they grab it while it's still up in the air! The Celts wait for the ball to come down, that's why they can't rebound the ball. When KG first came to the Celts, you could see his arms above the rim to get a rebound. After KG's injury in 2009, the Celts became a bad rebounding team. 2008 and 2009 the Celts were averaging 42 rebounds per game. 2010, 2011, and 2012 the Celts are just averaging 38-39 rebounds per game. 
    Posted by Fiercest34[/QUOTE]
    Don't tell Larry Bird or Kevin Love that, they say they got all of their rebounds below the rim.  It is about positioning.  You played the game and have to know that.
     
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    Re: Doc Rivers: ‘Chicago’s tougher than us’


     I like Doc's comment about not playing basketball "cool".  Last night he could have used Petrius's attitude out there on the court.
     
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    Re: Doc Rivers: ‘Chicago’s tougher than us’

    CHICAGO IS NAAWWWT TOUGHER THAN BOSTON. YOU EVER BEEN TO SOUTHIE DEREK ROSE? THATS WHAT I THAWWWT.
     
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    Re: Doc Rivers: ‘Chicago’s tougher than us’

    Dos just calling them out...psychology 101...
     
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    Re: Doc Rivers: ‘Chicago’s tougher than us’

    In Response to Re: Doc Rivers: ‘Chicago’s tougher than us’:
    [QUOTE]1. Ray Allen is back: We loose two games in a row. 2. Doc benches Steisma: We loose two games in a row 3. The big three play too many minutes: We loose two games in a row. 4. We play small ball: We loose two games in a row. So who is the problem here? The answer is simple....Doc!!!!!!! And then Doc rips on his players!!! What is wrong with the man? Doesn't he ever see his own failings? Does he have too much pride to admit that he makes mistakes? Or could there be another problem with him?..........Low IQ???
    Posted by celticsince1958[/QUOTE]

    Yeah his IQ is so low he doesn't know how to spell the word "lose".  Oh wait...

     
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    Re: Doc Rivers: ‘Chicago’s tougher than us’

    In Response to Re: Doc Rivers: ‘Chicago’s tougher than us’:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Doc Rivers: ‘Chicago’s tougher than us’ : Yeah his IQ is so low he doesn't know how to spell the word "lose".  Oh wait...
    Posted by snakeoil123[/QUOTE]

     I had a feeling, that one was coming!
     
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    Re: Doc Rivers: ‘Chicago’s tougher than us’


     Bill Russell also said most rebounds were gotten below the rim.  We're a small team to start with, and then Doc goes really small with his dreaded small ball, i mean Paul Pierce at power forward, Ray at small forward, how can we be expected to out rebound anyone with a line up that small. By the way KG wasn't the problem last night, i think he had 13 or 14 boards!!
     
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    Re: Doc Rivers: ‘Chicago’s tougher than us’

    IMHO Rivers was talking about how the Bulls got the C's out of their game, with the highlight being stupid fouls by KG in his on going battle with Noah and the well deserved technical that followed.


     
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    Re: Doc Rivers: ‘Chicago’s tougher than us’

    Noah is a crybaby and a dirty player
     
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    Re: Doc Rivers: ‘Chicago’s tougher than us’

    yeah, but if he (noah)was wearing Green, we would be defending him...
     
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    Re: Doc Rivers: ‘Chicago’s tougher than us’

    In Response to Re: Doc Rivers: ‘Chicago’s tougher than us’:
    [QUOTE] Bill Russell also said most rebounds were gotten below the rim.  We're a small team to start with, and then Doc goes really small with his dreaded small ball, i mean Paul Pierce at power forward, Ray at small forward, how can we be expected to out rebound anyone with a line up that small. By the way KG wasn't the problem last night, i think he had 13 or 14 boards!!
    Posted by kyceltic[/QUOTE]


    He did have 14 boards.  Bass is the issue, not KG.

    As for small ball, blame Danny and bad luck.  When you lose Wilcox and Steimsma is your next best big man - you're in trouble.  Doc has to play small ball because we need to score and we don't get much from the other big men.   After all, when Bass is in, we are WORSE on the Boards than when we go small ball.  

    In addition to rebounds, I suspect Doc was talking about us walking the ball up court, doing that stupid think Rondo does by letting the ball roll forever and then getting in trouble, and not playin tough D (yes, Deng was hot but its not as if Paul had a hand in his face most of the time!!).
     
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    Re: Doc Rivers: ‘Chicago’s tougher than us’

    In Response to Re: Doc Rivers: ‘Chicago’s tougher than us’:
    [QUOTE]Not tougher, Doc. Smarter. Chicago has a better coach. I would have played Stiemsma till he fouled out, not played Ray at all, and put KG on Deng.
    Posted by Kirk6[/QUOTE]

    I totally agree. Except play Ray on second team with limited minutes.
     
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    Re: Doc Rivers: ‘Chicago’s tougher than us’

    I have two theories on this situation:

    1. Ray Allen's inability to play defense and create his own shot hurts the team, as evinced by the ~.900 team win percentage in games Allen misses. Avery Bradley is better than Allen in every facet of the game, except crunchtime IQ (Bradley still commits dumb fouls at inopportune times) and pure shooting.

    2. The Celtics ran into two top 3 teams in the Spurs and Bulls, barely losing to one of them (that was on an 8 game winning streak, no less) and competing for 3 1/2 quarters against the other on the second of a back-to-back. The vast majority of teams, including good ones, would have lost the same two games.

    As usual, we tend to get too high when things go well (the Miami win) and too low when things go poorly (losses to San Antonio and Chicago).

    The truth is somewhere in the middle. The Celtics are a better team than we thought as recently as a month ago. They are playing more inspired basketball than at any point in the season. They are as capable as ever of playing the suffocating defense that wins championships. To wit, the performance against Miami and the second half against San Antonio were absolutely phenomenal. The defense in those games was better than anything we've seen since 2008.

    Individually, Kevin Garnett is playing as well as he has at any point since pre-injury 2009. Paul Pierce is coming off a Player of the Month Award. Rajon Rondo is dominating nationally televised games (which will include every playoff game). Avery Bradley has suddenly emerged as one of the most elite defenders in the league and as a surprisingly deft slasher with impeccable timing in the paint. Brandon Bass continues to drain mid-range jumpers. Greg Stiemsma has proven to be a decent rotation player who can block shots and draw charges. Ray Allen still has his clutch three-point stroke.

    On the downside, all of the Celtics have a bizarre inability this year to execute uncontested dunks and lay-ups at a 95%+ clip. There've been games where Rondo literally misses 7 lay-ups in a quarter. Now I'm seeing players like Brandon Bass miss two-handed slamdunks (If I were Bass' height, I'm not sure I could do that even if I tried). Garnett, Pierce, Allen, Pietrus, Stiemsma, Daniels and Dooling all struggle within 2 feet of the basket. It makes no logical sense. The only guys who seem automatic from up close, as should be the case for anyone in the NBA, are Avery Bradley, Mickael Pietrus, and Sasha Pavlovic. This chronic problem easily costs the Celtics 10+ points per game, maybe even 20. If they could do the little things that other teams excel in without thinking, the Celtics would be firmly entrenched as the No. 3 seed, if not higher. Ditto with rebounding. I don't care how small the Celtics are, some of the rebounding disparities are an absolute embarrassment. Rebounding isn't all about height. Positioning matters. Boxing out matters. Effort matters. For me, this comes down to coaching. Maybe the Celtics aren't working on fundamentals. They eschew the basics for the intricate. This doesn't mean I don't think Doc Rivers is a good coach. I actually feel he's doing an outstanding job overall. He's getting a lot out of an aging core and a mediocre bench. He may be the best motivator of any coach in the league, plus he knows how to draw up good plays out of timeouts. It's not invariably his fault if the players fail to execute.

    Conclusion: While in all likelihood the Celtics will be out by the end of the second round, there's a glimmer of hope for this season if everything breaks right and the team plays up to its potential for longer than intermittent 5 minute stretches.
     
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    Re: Doc Rivers: ‘Chicago’s tougher than us’

    In Response to Re: Doc Rivers: ‘Chicago’s tougher than us’:
    [QUOTE]I have two theories on this situation: 1. Ray Allen's inability to play defense and create his own shot hurts the team, as evinced by the ~.900 team win percentage in games Allen misses. Avery Bradley is better than Allen in every facet of the game, except crunchtime IQ (Bradley still commits dumb fouls at inopportune times) and pure shooting. .
    Posted by davidap[/QUOTE]

    Your theory is wrong. AB is a pleasant surprise but he is worse than Ray in ballhandling, passing and rebounding as well. And AB is also bad in creating his own shot. Miami won a lot of games w/o Wade! Should the Heat bench Wade?
     
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    Re: Doc Rivers: ‘Chicago’s tougher than us’

    In Response to Re: Doc Rivers: ‘Chicago’s tougher than us’:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Doc Rivers: ‘Chicago’s tougher than us’ : If you watch guys like DeAndre Jordan, Serge Ibaka, Joakim Noah, Dwight Howard, and all the other young big men rebound, they don't wait for the ball to come down, they grab it while it's still up in the air! The Celts wait for the ball to come down, that's why they can't rebound the ball. When KG first came to the Celts, you could see his arms above the rim to get a rebound. After KG's injury in 2009, the Celts became a bad rebounding team. 2008 and 2009 the Celts were averaging 42 rebounds per game. 2010, 2011, and 2012 the Celts are just averaging 38-39 rebounds per game. 
    Posted by Fiercest34[/QUOTE]

    Out jumping isnt the key to great rebounding..positioning and boxing out correctly is.  When done correctly, doesnt matter how high the opponent can jump unless you're only 5 feet tall.

    Watch the Celtics and you rarely see good box outs, KG included.  Most just turn to the bucket and chase it.  We also get outhustled to loose balls and many times lse control of the ball in traffic on rebounds.
     
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