Doc Rivers Gives the Celtics Stability

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    Re: Doc Rivers Gives the Celtics Stability

    If Doc was a 24 year old, athletic 7 footer, then he could help the Celtics.
    Otherwise, this old team will not be a championship contending team.
     
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    Re: Doc Rivers Gives the Celtics Stability

    In Response to Re: Doc Rivers Gives the Celtics Stability:
    If Doc was a 24 year old, athletic 7 footer, then he could help the Celtics. Otherwise, this old team will not be a championship contending team.
    Posted by mtrax


    Whether the Celtics are a championship team or not, they're in good hands. Can't say the same about the Lakers, though. 
     
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    Re: Doc Rivers Gives the Celtics Stability

    In Response to Doc Rivers Gives the Celtics Stability:
    The more I think about the more at ease I am with what lies ahead for the Celtics.  Today the Lakers hired John Kuester, the same coach that only played 6 players in a loss to the Sixers last season. Apparently it was a player protest, 7 players didn't show up for the morning shootaround. What's worse is the players laughed at Kuester after he got ejected from that game. Kuester was tossed in the second quarter -- while McGrady and his teammates laughed as their coach headed toward the locker room. http://www.aolnews.com/2011/02/26/pistons-play-only-six-in-loss-after-apparent-player-protest/ Think about it, before Doc Rivers and after KC Jones, the only decent coach the Celts ever had was Jim O'Brien. And by no stretch of the imagination is O'Brien considered a great coach.  
    Posted by Fiercest34


    Doc Rivers is the #1 example that majority opinion is not always true.

    The only stability Doc provides is old players will continue to be overused and there will be no bench development.

    Doc's living off of one good year, 2008, when he just so happened to have by far the best roster in the league. When he doesn't, his flaws become obvious except to those who believe in him no matter what.
     
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    Re: Doc Rivers Gives the Celtics Stability

    In Response to Re: Doc Rivers Gives the Celtics Stability:
    In Response to Doc Rivers Gives the Celtics Stability : Doc Rivers is the #1 example that majority opinion is not always true. The only stability Doc provides is old players will continue to be overused and there will be no bench development. Doc's living off of one good year, 2008, when he just so happened to have by far the best roster in the league. When he doesn't, his flaws become obvious except to those who believe in him no matter what.
    Posted by NickFaldo


    What are you talking about Doc has recieved RESPECT and RECOGNITION throughout this league by the coaches for his great ability to come up with great plays. And all superstars want to play for Doc just by the way he gives them trust and faith in themselves. No matter what roster you give him.
     
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    Re: Doc Rivers Gives the Celtics Stability

    Outside of the 2008 season, Doc has under-achieved with the talent he has had. Even in the 2008 playoffs, it took Boston 20 games to get through the eastern conference playoffs.

    Before Danny handed Doc KG and Ray, Doc's career winning percentage as a coach was well below .500. (39 games below .500)

    In his first 8 years of coaching in the NBA, Glenn never won more then 45 games.

    He is clearly not a top notch NBA head coach.
     
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    Re: Doc Rivers Gives the Celtics Stability

    In Response to Re: Doc Rivers Gives the Celtics Stability:
    Outside of the 2008 season, Doc has under-achieved with the talent he has had. Even in the 2008 playoffs, it took Boston 20 games to get through the eastern conference playoffs. Before Danny handed Doc KG and Ray, Doc's career winning percentage as a coach was well below .500. (39 games below .500) In his first 8 years of coaching in the NBA, Glenn never won more then 45 games. He is clearly not a top notch NBA head coach.
    Posted by mtrax


    Whoa!! Doc has done a great job especially the year KG got hurt and the C's lost in game 7 to Orlando. I don't always agree with his rotations but he is definately a top coach in the NBA and guys like playing for him.

    2 Finals in 3 years isn't that shabby.
     
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    Re: Doc Rivers Gives the Celtics Stability

    Doc is exceptional at calling plays out of timeouts. There is no evidence he is a big draw for free agents.

    KG accepted the trade to Boston because of Ray Allen.

    Posey, House, and PJ Brown signed on because of the Big Three and a chance at a title. Same with Marquis Daniels.

    Granted up to now Doc has had an image of being a player's coach. Most people do like him. However, the shine on that is starting to wear off. Tony Allen never said so, but I believe he left for Memphis because of Doc's inability to treat him as a respected part of the rotation. Recently Big Baby has in his own way said enough is enough stop treating me like dirt, Doc.

    I agree Doc is a good draw for superstars. They know he will treat them as royalty. But how many of them are ever available? Because of the salary cap, it is very difficult for NBA teams to contend for titles. It takes a delicate balance between having two or three great players and another solid six to seven players to fill out the rest of an 8-10 man rotation.

    Doc is turning into a failure at developing those 5 through 10.

    You won't hear it from media experts, but Doc is a repellent for those types of players. Look at what he did to Krstic and Von Wafer this year.

    The conformist response is those players are awful. Well, that's NBA reality. You have to play your best 8-10 players. You can't run 33-35 year olds into the ground. Even a young guy like Rondo can't be expected to play 40 minutes every game.

    I did like the Celtics the year KG got hurt. They had true spwnk. (That's not a typo. Change the w to a u. For some odd reason that word isn't allowed. Ok, I googled and see it has a slang definition. Wow, they let posters abuse other posters but disallow a real word that only lowlifes think of it in terms of a gutter definition.) They almost found a way despite an avalanche of bad luck with injuries.

    Maybe Doc can grow as a coach and pick it up a notch. Yet he's shown no indication that he understands how to utilize a roster. Earlier in his career he was all over the board using too many players. The latest years he has shortened the rotation far too much.

    He also has a proclivity to running doghouses. The superstars never go there, even when it's obvious their best years are behind them. Others like Krstic and Von Wafer get put into it and are never let out. Those guys aren't the greatest players in the league, but if they had been in the rotation against Miami, we might have been the ones facing Dallas, not the Heat.

    Ray got absolutely torched by Dwyane Wade. Ray is an old man basketball-wise. In "real life" he may have the body of a 25 year old, but basketball is not real life. It's over. The Big Three are cooked. It's been two years since Doc needed to adapt to their aging process. Now he will probably do it, because it's now so obvious. I think a great coach would have led us to a title or two over the last two years.
     
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    Re: Doc Rivers Gives the Celtics Stability

    In Response to Re: Doc Rivers Gives the Celtics Stability:
    Nick The title was within reach in 2010. It was just unfortunate that KG didn't step up in the last 5 minutes of Game 7. Pau Gasol was supposed to be the "soft" one. But in Game 7 that was not the case as Gasol killed the Celtics on the glass with 18 boards while KG could only get 3 boards with ZERO offensive rebounds.
    Posted by Fiercest34


    KG was still not back to 100%. Those knee injuries take a long time to fully heal. That's why Perk was a non-factor for Oklahoma. The mind can say yes, while the body says no.

    KG has fully healed. Unfortunately, he is 35 years old. NFL runners have a shelf life. So do NBA players. KG and Ray have started down the slope going on two years. Pierce is also no longer at the top.

    Doc squandered this season. That was the best of the Big Three we will ever see again. But they needed help.

    Gasol has certainly been a soft player over the years, but at least for the two the Lakers won the title, he was a beast. He was a great player.

    Too bad Sheed's back gave out. That hurt almost as much as Perk being crippled.

    I concede maybe even a great coach wouldn't have been able to lead us to a second title in this era.

    Too bad Dwyane Wade's dirtty play turned Rajon into one-armed Rondo. I think Big Baby was injured too. Erden might have been the ultimate what if. Shaq was only going to be able to give you 20 minutes a game anyway. I think Erden at 100% would have been enough for us to have been crowned rather than Dallas. That being said, under the circumstances Doc needed to roll the dice with Krstic and Troy Murphy. He didn't, went small, and played right into Miami's strengths.

    KG is not a center for more than five minutes a game. Davis at center is an even more ridiculous concept. KG is at his best when he has a real big playing alongside, allowing him to be the Teddy Brewski (sp?) defender of basketball. When he's on his own, it's asking too much.
     
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    Re: Doc Rivers Gives the Celtics Stability

    Here are some obervations about Doc that I've found to be true in the past few seasons.

    He's maybe the best out of timeout coach in the NBA, up there with Popps in SA.

    If you don't practice hard and take things seriously, you're not getting his trust. Nate Robinson wore his welcome out with the tomfoolery that has kept him from making a real impact in his career.

    He believes in the Big Three almost to a fault, which is why their relationship is as good it is. He'd rather go down with the guys he believes in than let bench guys possibly give up a lead. This is a double edged blade with older players.

    He's respected league-wide. When Dwight H was talking about improving his passing, he cited Doc as someone who could teach movement. Shaq also put Doc up there next to Jax, specifically for Doc's commitment to the team concept. He didn't mention riley, d'antoni, SVG, or Mike Brown in his retirement presser.

    Doc is gonna come at you with the realest lines when you're acting out. He's brutally honest. This doesn't always go over well with pampered players (big baby), but the real workers love him for it.

    In a wierd way, Doc is a father figure to these guys. As recently as a month ago, Avery Bradley was staying at Doc's house and training with him to develop better fundamentals and passing skills. You don't hear about stuff like that very often, but Doc spends a good deal of his non lock-out summers interacting with his players.

    A lot of people give Rivers crap for his record prior to Kev, but he made Orlando a playoff team with T-Mac and a bunch of scrubs, and he knowingly signed up for rebuilding in Boston. Not every coach gets to inherit Jordan in his prime, or Kobe and Shaq. We were loyal to Doc in the bad times, now he's loyal to the Celts. That says a lot about his character.
     
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    Re: Doc Rivers Gives the Celtics Stability

    In Response to Re: Doc Rivers Gives the Celtics Stability:
    In Response to Re: Doc Rivers Gives the Celtics Stability : Whoa!! Doc has done a great job especially the year KG got hurt and the C's lost in game 7 to Orlando. I don't always agree with his rotations but he is definately a top coach in the NBA and guys like playing for him. 2 Finals in 3 years isn't that shabby.
    Posted by BiasLewis


    2 finals in 23 years.....pathetic!
     
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    Re: Doc Rivers Gives the Celtics Stability

    In Response to Re: Doc Rivers Gives the Celtics Stability:
    In Response to Re: Doc Rivers Gives the Celtics Stability : Fiercest34 is always properly heeled ... glass slippers or spikes are his favs ... pumps only with his boys.
    Posted by Mployee8


    There you go again, trolling late at night. Does your mom know you get high at the stroke of midnight?
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from NickFaldo. Show NickFaldo's posts

    Re: Doc Rivers Gives the Celtics Stability

    In Response to Re: Doc Rivers Gives the Celtics Stability:
    Here are some obervations about Doc that I've found to be true in the past few seasons. He's maybe the best out of timeout coach in the NBA, up there with Popps in SA. If you don't practice hard and take things seriously, you're not getting his trust. Nate Robinson wore his welcome out with the tomfoolery that has kept him from making a real impact in his career. He believes in the Big Three almost to a fault, which is why their relationship is as good it is. He'd rather go down with the guys he believes in than let bench guys possibly give up a lead. This is a double edged blade with older players. He's respected league-wide. When Dwight H was talking about improving his passing, he cited Doc as someone who could teach movement. Shaq also put Doc up there next to Jax, specifically for Doc's commitment to the team concept. He didn't mention riley, d'antoni, SVG, or Mike Brown in his retirement presser. Doc is gonna come at you with the realest lines when you're acting out. He's brutally honest. This doesn't always go over well with pampered players (big baby), but the real workers love him for it. In a wierd way, Doc is a father figure to these guys. As recently as a month ago, Avery Bradley was staying at Doc's house and training with him to develop better fundamentals and passing skills. You don't hear about stuff like that very often, but Doc spends a good deal of his non lock-out summers interacting with his players. A lot of people give Rivers crap for his record prior to Kev, but he made Orlando a playoff team with T-Mac and a bunch of scrubs, and he knowingly signed up for rebuilding in Boston. Not every coach gets to inherit Jordan in his prime, or Kobe and Shaq. We were loyal to Doc in the bad times, now he's loyal to the Celts. That says a lot about his character.
    Posted by truth-torpedo34


    You make a lot of good points, and I agree with most of your post. Doc's chemistry with the Big Three is nice, but the team would be better off if those guys were turned into Hondos, Cowens, Chiefs, and anyone else one can think of who contributed to teams long after they were in their primes. Ray would have been perfect off the bench for 25-30 minutes. Pierce 30-35. KG no more than 30. Doc's actually been pretty good keeping KG's minutes reasonable.

    Doc needed to bite that bullet starting two years ago. You have to give your bench a long leash. Von Wafer was playing exceptional, but then he got hurt. I simply don't understand why he never got his job back once he healed.

    Krstic was kind of weak on defense. However, he is well above average for offense, and he was trying to play defense. So was Nate. Guys like Nate and Baby were being asked too much to play out of their skill sets. They were very accomodating to Doc. It's unfortunate how those things worked out. It's also on Danny that we haven't had a real backup point guard for Rondo except for a bit of Marbury and a bit of a mediocre Carlos Arroyo.

    But back to Krstic. He was our only real chance to beat Miami. He needed to play 30-40 minutes a game, especially once JO hurt his wrist. It's too easy to say Krstic is a stiff and Doc was right to bench him. Same with Von Wafer for shooting guard. He was the only true backup for Ray other than perhaps Delonte.

    Once Rondo was hurt, I would have played Wafer with West. I think Wafer might have caught fire defending Wade. A lot of defense is about attitude. He was starting to show a desire to fit in defensively. Ray was never a great defender, and now that and his ball handling on the other end are big question marks. Ray would make a great microwave off the bench. That's what he is at this point, unless the other team is weak at shooting guard.

    It's nice to hear Doc is tutoring Bradley. That is news that gives me a bit of hope Doc is ready to evolve as a coach.

    Doc is a genius calling out plays from timeouts.
     
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    Re: Doc Rivers Gives the Celtics Stability

    It also didn't help Doc when the Celtic owners let James Posey go after winning the title in 2008.
     
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    Re: Doc Rivers Gives the Celtics Stability

    In Response to Re: Doc Rivers Gives the Celtics Stability:
    In Response to Re: Doc Rivers Gives the Celtics Stability : KG averaged 18.8 ppg and 8 rpg against Antawn Jamison and the Cavs in the semis of the 2010 playoffs. Against the Lakers, in the Finals, KG averaged 15.3 ppg and 5.6 rpg in 7 games. The difference between the two series is KG was matched up against a smaller PF in the Cavs series while KG had to face a taller Pau Gasol against the Lakers. I find it hard to believe that KG played so well against the Cavs but against the Lakers many are saying he was not fully healed.
    Posted by Fiercest34


    KG is old. It's not like he underachieves at times on purpose. Jamison was a stiff. It's not that KG couldn't hold his own against one Laker big, but he couldn't do it all himself once Perk and Sheed got hurt.

    KG was definitely not 100% until this year. Now he is 35. A man's got to know his limitations. Doc doesn't understand the Big Three's limitations. Doc has been the three point shooter of coaches. It's been all Big Three or bust. He's never had plan B's, C's, or D's. He's shown little patience with backups. He's been coaching like it's 2008 every year.
     
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    Re: Doc Rivers Gives the Celtics Stability

    It's easy for Doc to draw up plays after time outs when he has at least 4 scoring options on the court. No other team has had the balanced offensive attack that Boston has had.

    ML Carr could coach this team just by waving his white towel in the air.
     
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    Re: Doc Rivers Gives the Celtics Stability

    no chance in hell with mike brown. I watched that cleveland team quit on Him and refuse to foul in a single digit elimination game.
     
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    Re: Doc Rivers Gives the Celtics Stability

    In Response to Re: Doc Rivers Gives the Celtics Stability:
    It's easy for Doc to draw up plays after time outs when he has at least 4 scoring options on the court. No other team has had the balanced offensive attack that Boston has had. ML Carr could coach this team just by waving his white towel in the air.
    Posted by mtrax


    I tend to agree. There's no proof Doc's a great coach. There's a vocal majority who always support him, yet all they have to offer for points are that he calls great plays out of timeouts and is good at managing egos. He is lousy at regulating minutes, making substitutions, and enabling an open shop atmosphere where every player on the team has a chance to move up the ladder.
     
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    Re: Doc Rivers Gives the Celtics Stability

    In Response to Re: Doc Rivers Gives the Celtics Stability:
    In Response to Re: Doc Rivers Gives the Celtics Stability : Doc didn't have continuity after 2008. After Posey left in 2008 the Celtics failed to find a replacement. By 2010 the Celts had new bench players, Sheed, Quis, and Nate. PJ Brown, Sam Cassell, and James Posey were long gone and Powe and House were the next to go. Last season the Celtics were the #1 team in the east then Ainge blew up the bench once again, tradind Perk, Erden, and Harangody. There's just no continuity. The Lakers, after winning a title in 2009, were about to lose Lamar Odom to free agency. Odom eventually forced the Lakers to overpay him. It resulted in another championship for the Lakers. I really don't think it was a good idea breaking up the team after it just won a championship.  
    Posted by Fiercest34


    I don't know what the deal was with Posey. Danny definitely should have resigned him. He's thrown around a lot of money for KG, Pierce, JO, and Sheed. So why not Posey too?

    Half-heartedly gutting the team has been a complete failure. In hindsight, Ray should have been traded at the all-star deadline a few years ago. Pierce should have been sent on his way when he became a free agent. The good news we are only stuck with two more Pierce years after this one. Maybe Danny can find a contender or chump team to take his albatross of a contract. The run is over

    Now Rondo, if he can deal with his plantar fasciitis, and his elbow and various health issues work themselves out, he is a bargain at 11 million/yr. Danny should build an old-school running Celtics squad. That's what he wanted to do, before he realized KG could be had.

    If Baby can become a health nut, then resign him. Otherwise, he doesn't fit in. Jeff Green does, unless he wants to break the bank before proving himself. Wafer would, but it appears he's been rehected by Doc. I like Delonte's game. I would not resign Ray or KG unless it's for peanuts and coming off the bench. It's time to move on.
     
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    Re: Doc Rivers Gives the Celtics Stability

    In Response to Re: Doc Rivers Gives the Celtics Stability:
    In Response to Re: Doc Rivers Gives the Celtics Stability : At least 4 scoring options? The Big 3, yes. But Rondo and Perk are not really scoring options.
    Posted by Fiercest34


    Rondo and Perk were scoring threats. Perk was having a great year before this one, until he developed tendinitis. Rondo is simply incredible, and Danny needs to develop the team around his speed.

    Eddie House and Posey were definite scoring threats in 2008. Even PJ Brown got it done, especially that clutch shot he made against the Cavs. I like Delonte because he plays solid defense and is fearless on offense. His jump shot might be underrated. Arroyo doesn't impress me.
     
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