Doc, stop complaining!!

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from mac1980. Show mac1980's posts

    Re: Doc, stop complaining!!

    "Rondo if you are reading this: Stop being a nancy pansy and push the tempo. do not get stuck in the screens."

    That is hilarious, the notion that Rondo himself is getting on boston.com and reading the threads!  Obviously he isn't or he'd be playing better!
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from DavetheWave. Show DavetheWave's posts

    Re: Doc, stop complaining!!

    Celtic brothers and sisters,
    These are some good posts. What amazes me is that Danny actually believed that one of the O'Neals would be back and healthy for the playoff run. What evidence supported that assumption? Of all the guys he pulled in during the trades, wouldn't a Perk-like defender have been a good call given our biggest need (interior D and rebounding)

    As for Rondo, I agree with these posts. He is sulking and dragging the team down with him. West is fragile. I was surprised Doc didn't give Arroyo more time. He looked amazingly capable of running the offense given his limited PT this season. Plus, he was very unselfish. Now it looks like we're going to have 3 of our mid-season pick-ups rotting on the bench the rest of the way along with the O'Neals if they ever show up again.  Last one: how the heck could Danny have overestimated Murphy's ability to contribute like he did.  Yikes!  It will be a miracle run if we get to the Eastern Finals.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Karllost. Show Karllost's posts

    Re: Doc, stop complaining!!

    In Response to Re: Doc, stop complaining!!:
    [QUOTE]Wow - its amazing how short of a memory many on this board have.  Its back to "its Doc's fault" and "the team i having a mutiny" and other statements that indicate its all over.  We went through the same thing last year and SO MANY fans called for Danny's head, Doc's head, trade Ray, Paul's too old,  KG is done, etc, etc.   Then, the got refreshed and made their run.   Why not give them the benefit of the doubt since you've all seen this movie before?  This team frustrates the heck out of me.  I was furious last night.  But, I have NOT lost faith that they are all crazy about Doc and that they'll follow him anywhwere.  Why?  Because he DOESN'T do what many on this board suggest. he doesn't lose faith in them, he doesn't call them out in public by name, and he tries to help them get through this. With the change in personnel, the injuries, the minutes the starters had to play this season with the injuries, they held on as long as they could and are now limping home.  But, they'll get home (end of season and into the playoffs) and you'll be cheering how glad you are that Doc pulled them all together. Please have some faith, folks!
    Posted by Celtsfan4life[/QUOTE]

    Im not blaming things all on Doc although he has his share just like all the players do, in good times & bad..  My point was I dont like DOc complaining to the media about the Celtics being "soft" or "selfish" when he has the ultimate power and responsibility to enable a change... If he wants to lean on the old story that HE cant play for them, they have to do it themselves.... then he undermines his own value...  and is dodging his own responsibility..

    What is it, when they play great he gets fair share of credit but when they stionk... he points to the players??? I thought it was TEAM..what to do for the TEAM... and DOc is insulating himself from that

    DOc cant whine to the media about players bring soft & selfish etc when he allows them to play for 30-40 minutes each!!  Are you telling me DOc has players like this and he doesnt sit them?? That like letting a 4 year old drink beer  and complaining to the neighbor about.. Just take the dam beer from him!!

    DOc has the juice but doesnt use it all... he opts to allow them to continue on like this withno retribution..

    So my point again is... this may be DOcs way and it may be successful... but dont complain about the players if DOc himself is allowing it to happen

    Lastly, just cause we did a miracle run last year... played like garbage the last 1/2 of the season and still made the big run through the playoffs... lets be reasonable...  anybody relying on another miracle run is living in lala land... Sure its possible but how often does that happen???  False security if you ask me


     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from puddinpuddin. Show puddinpuddin's posts

    Re: Doc, stop complaining!!

    In Response to Re: Doc, stop complaining!!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Doc, stop complaining!! : Im not blaming things all on Doc although he has his share just like all the players do, in good times & bad..  My point was I dont like DOc complaining to the media about the Celtics being "soft" or "selfish" when he has the ultimate power and responsibility to enable a change... If he wants to lean on the old story that HE cant play for them, they have to do it themselves.... then he undermines his own value...  and is dodging his own responsibility.. What is it, when they play great he gets fair share of credit but when they stionk... he points to the players??? I thought it was TEAM..what to do for the TEAM... and DOc is insulating himself from that DOc cant whine to the media about players bring soft & selfish etc when he allows them to play for 30-40 minutes each!!  Are you telling me DOc has players like this and he doesnt sit them?? That like letting a 4 year old drink beer  and complaining to the neighbor about.. Just take the dam beer from him!! DOc has the juice but doesnt use it all... he opts to allow them to continue on like this withno retribution.. So my point again is... this may be DOcs way and it may be successful... but dont complain about the players if DOc himself is allowing it to happen Lastly, just cause we did a miracle run last year... played like garbage the last 1/2 of the season and still made the big run through the playoffs... lets be reasonable...  anybody relying on another miracle run is living in lala land... Sure its possible but how often does that happen???  False security if you ask me
    Posted by Karllost[/QUOTE]

    Lightning has been known to strike twice but don't count on it. I'm certainly not expecting it and hoping for the sake of the game that it doesn't happen. Thats no way to win anything.

    That doc would suggest in various places that boredom may have set in is an indictment of his coaching more than anything else. The C's looked anything but bored when the Bobcats began to spank them last night as the game was winding down.

    I was frankly pulling for the Bobcats in the final few minutes because a narrow win by the C's would have been quickly forgotten (a win is a win is a win) whereas another embarrassing  loss has the possibilities of bringing things that desperately need addressing... to a head.

    The sooner the better.

    Pud
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Celtsfan4life. Show Celtsfan4life's posts

    Re: Doc, stop complaining!!

    In Response to Re: Doc, stop complaining!!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Doc, stop complaining!! : Im not blaming things all on Doc although he has his share just like all the players do, in good times & bad..  My point was I dont like DOc complaining to the media about the Celtics being "soft" or "selfish" when he has the ultimate power and responsibility to enable a change... If he wants to lean on the old story that HE cant play for them, they have to do it themselves.... then he undermines his own value...  and is dodging his own responsibility.. What is it, when they play great he gets fair share of credit but when they stionk... he points to the players??? I thought it was TEAM..what to do for the TEAM... and DOc is insulating himself from that DOc cant whine to the media about players bring soft & selfish etc when he allows them to play for 30-40 minutes each!!  Are you telling me DOc has players like this and he doesnt sit them?? That like letting a 4 year old drink beer  and complaining to the neighbor about.. Just take the dam beer from him!! DOc has the juice but doesnt use it all... he opts to allow them to continue on like this withno retribution.. So my point again is... this may be DOcs way and it may be successful... but dont complain about the players if DOc himself is allowing it to happen Lastly, just cause we did a miracle run last year... played like garbage the last 1/2 of the season and still made the big run through the playoffs... lets be reasonable...  anybody relying on another miracle run is living in lala land... Sure its possible but how often does that happen???  False security if you ask me
    Posted by Karllost[/QUOTE]


    Doc has to answer media questions.   Its required.  He can't just lie and dodge the issues.  First, he did not say the team was soft.  In fact, he specifically said he did not say that in the locker room.  It was reported by others but he denied saying it.

    Also, he said the team is playing selfish.  he said 'guys".  Not how he never named names.  He's giving honest feedback to the media who keeps asking 'what's wrong" without selling out individuals (even though MANY MANY people on THIS board want him to sell out a certain individual).   This is one of many reasons they all begged him to come back - they love his leadership and his ability to treat them with respect and honesty at the same time.

    Finally, he said "its my job to figure it out" and "either I'm not getting through or they're not in the right place mentally".  That doesn't sound like whining to the media.   Sounds like a guy honestly answering questions about why his team is losing when everyone knows they should be playing better.

    So, I respect his honestly and frustration.  He has the same frustration we do and the things he has tried have not worked.  No practice, practice, less starter minutes, more starter minutes - it doesn't matter.  They are NOT executing what he wants and it may be tough to get through to them until they get away from the game.  unfortunately, they will NOT get a few day mental rest for quite a while.  So, this will likely continue for a while.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Karllost. Show Karllost's posts

    Re: Doc, stop complaining!!

    If Doc denies calling the team soft in NY..some players say he did... he also said the played very, very selfish. He said they were not trying to do whats good for the team, but for themselves being selfish... something like that

    So why does Doc allow this? PLaying his 4 main guys and avg of 35 mins each?  Think about it... your guys are playing poorly, we're losing games to krap teams, this has been going on for some time... the players arent istening to him... so, why do they keep getting their minutes?

    I know a high school football player, hes a not so good wide receiver. They keep throwing him the ball and he keeps dropping it.. the coach sits him for a bit and his replacement makes a couple catches and plays adequately... the starter returns and continues dropping passes... this goes on for game after game.

    Should the coach wonder to the media why the receiver position isnt being productive? Should he ponder to them his confusion why the receiver isnt running the right routes or catching the ball?

    Someone in the media might suggest he stop throwing the ball to him or allow the 2nd string guy, who's done an adequate job, to get more of the playing time.

    Can this really being flying over DOcs head?  Not his methodology to coaching and dealing with this but to complain about the results hes getting...  The old adage... Insanity, doing the same things over and over but expecting a different result
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from BaileyPowe. Show BaileyPowe's posts

    Re: Doc, stop complaining!!

    Lightning has been known to strike twice but don't count on it. I'm certainly not expecting it and hoping for the sake of the game that it doesn't happen. Thats no way to win anything.

    puddinpuddin, anyone who pays any attention to your trolling is already aware that you're hoping the celtics lose out this year just as last year. but to have the GALL to say you feel this way FOR THE SAKE OF THE GAME makes me want to pyuke.... 

    EUAAGGCHCH!!!!
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Celtsfan4life. Show Celtsfan4life's posts

    Re: Doc, stop complaining!!

    yup, Karl, its all that simple.  That's why the man has won coach of the year, coached a championship team and pulled them together in their first year, took that same team to 2 finals in 3 years, got within 4 points of his second championship, had his players/owner/GM beg him to come back, and have the best regular season record in the league over the last 3 years.   Its all because he's an idiot and you know how to coach better.

    Perhaps his motivation technique works better than yours.  Maybe you really need to rethink your strategy about how to motivate players.  You don't bench your best players, you help them learn and play through the troubles.

    As I said in another post:   I assume you have a job.  Imagine your boss when pressed about Company performance says "yes, Karllost has been terrible and I'm going to take away his job.  I'm announcing it to everyone on the team now.  Say he even just says it in a staff meeting.  How do you feel about him and how much do you want to work hard for him now".   Then, imagine your boss says in a staff meeting "The company isn't performing well and I need you all to step up to better performance and harder work."  Then privately, he comes to you and says "here's what i want out of you and i won't embarrass you, but I do need you to do XYZ better".   Now, do you hate your boss or appreciate his candor in private?

    Doc should not name names and should keep his approach.

    Sub more....maybe.  That's his call.  I questioned him too until I kept seeing his success, first year, second year without KG, third year all the way to the final game, and this year with all the injuries.  So, I trust him more than you.  We'll see who's right at the end of the season - you, the experienced NBA Coach, or Rivers, a little MORE NBA experience....who in your mind clearly doesn't know what he's doing.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Karllost. Show Karllost's posts

    Re: Doc, stop complaining!!

    In Response to Re: Doc, stop complaining!!:
    [QUOTE]yup, Karl, its all that simple.  That's why the man has won coach of the year, coached a championship team and pulled them together in their first year, took that same team to 2 finals in 3 years, got within 4 points of his second championship, had his players/owner/GM beg him to come back, and have the best regular season record in the league over the last 3 years.   Its all because he's an idiot and you know how to coach better. Perhaps his motivation technique works better than yours.  Maybe you really need to rethink your strategy about how to motivate players.  You don't bench your best players, you help them learn and play through the troubles. As I said in another post:   I assume you have a job.  Imagine your boss when pressed about Company performance says "yes, Karllost has been terrible and I'm going to take away his job.  I'm announcing it to everyone on the team now.  Say he even just says it in a staff meeting.  How do you feel about him and how much do you want to work hard for him now".   Then, imagine your boss says in a staff meeting "The company isn't performing well and I need you all to step up to better performance and harder work."  Then privately, he comes to you and says "here's what i want out of you and i won't embarrass you, but I do need you to do XYZ better".   Now, do you hate your boss or appreciate his candor in private? Doc should not name names and should keep his approach. Sub more....maybe.  That's his call.  I questioned him too until I kept seeing his success, first year, second year without KG, third year all the way to the final game, and this year with all the injuries.  So, I trust him more than you.  We'll see who's right at the end of the season - you, the experienced NBA Coach, or Rivers, a little MORE NBA experience....who in your mind clearly doesn't know what he's doing.
    Posted by Celtsfan4life[/QUOTE]

    Cfan4life, thats really beneath you. The easy cheap shot of an NBA coach with one title surely knows more than I do..therefore whatever he does mus be perfection and whatever criticism a layman makes must be dismissed... Really, thats pathetic

    Using that rationale, anytime Phil Jackson says the Lakers are a better team than the Celts and will beat them again in the finals...well, maybet KG & PP et al shouldnt  even show up to play the series... afterall, who are we to believe, a coach with 10 or 11 (whatever it is) NBA championships or DOc, who's telling his team they can win but only has one title???

    Also you miss the point again, for like the 3rd time... I didnt question Docs methodology of dealing with the players... I questioned his comments to the press abot "selfish" and "soft".

    Youre trying to make a point that Docs style is to let them work it out on the court... thats fine.. Tell them as a team where their shortcoming are and perhaps speak privately to individuals about specifics.. thats cool too..

    But he did sit the bench, covered his mouth with his hand and told the team to figure it out themselves... he was disgusted..  What Im driving at is DOc cant be disgusted...not after so many games of this garbage play... when he refuses to limit some of their minutes.  

    He should keep his cool but he wants it both ways... He wants to handle the team his way (as youve stated.. quietly, in practice, private discussions etc), not limit the minutes of any of the Big 4 ... thats not his way... yet call them selfish and soft to the media..

    Hey, if Doc's gonna throw darts (rightfully so imo) then back it up with your actions. Otherwise, keep quiet and stick with your plan. He cant trash the team (and hes made plaenty of implications who hes talking about) then be so tender and gentle with how he handles it ...refusing to takes any minutes away from the offenders..  

    Thats how I feel about it. Im not placing myself above DOc as a basketball coach but this particualr subject goes beyond X's & O's... and you shouldnt presume to be an expert about what my expertise is  and assume DOc is more qualified on any subject other than playing basketball and the general subject of coaching in the NBA


     
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Celtsfan4life. Show Celtsfan4life's posts

    Re: Doc, stop complaining!!

    Well, my friend, to your very last paragraph, I am ONLY assuming that more qualified than you (and me) at motivating and coaching players.  That's the whole point.  I don't know where you are coming from on this point.

    Second, I didn't miss your point (for the 3rd time).  Your point is that he shouldn't say anything public and if he does, back it up by benching Rondo and limiting the starter's minutes.  I understand your point. I simply disagree with it, don't think it helps us win, and am trying to give you another point of view that an NBA coach who's experienced in this team believes he best way to deal with them is to call out the TEAM and deal with individuals in practice and away from the public.  

    I would love for him to be able to limit the starters minutes, but then we seem to have NO CHANCE at winning.  Yes, they played nearly 38 to 39 minutes but when they were out the subs got outplayed.   He's trying to fight for HCA against anyone he can.   Some believe that HCA in the playoffs won't matter because Celts did so well last year.  Doc knows that it was the exception and not the rule and he knows we lost game 7 ON THE ROAD.   HCA is important!!  He seems to believe the best chance at HCA against at least some teams (we no longer can catch the Spurs) is to put the starters back in at critical times.  He's coach and I can't really argue with that.  So, on your minutes issue - he made a choice and I kind of agree with it.  That's what I'm arguing.  Others want us to rest the starters and then want to be frustrated that we are losing HCA.   All of this while the starting and back up Centers are out, West is hurt, Krstic's play ha fallen off, Wafer is still hurt......and everyone says "take out Rondo and sit the starters more".   For Arroyo, Murphy, Sasha?????  Really.   I mean....REALLY?   Why did lesser teams let them go?  not because they are going to carry u to best record in the east!!!  They are 3rd string guys!   You're telling me that in critical parts of games, you'd rather have Sasha, Arroyo, and murphy rather than Rondo and Pierce and KG so you cn limit their minutes?   Memphis was kicking our butts, especially with the subs in.   The only player I think should get more minutes is Green.  Krstic, Murphy, and Sasha can't play D and have no business playing with a high quality team.  They are subs and they haven't done well when in the games!!

    And let's be 100% sure that we have the FACTS.  Find your self a link where Doc told the media that he said his team was soft.  You won't find it.  He did say they were playing selfish, but didn't name names.  He anwered honestly to the presses constant questions and I respect that he did it while maintaining his good relationship with his players.

    It seems that the center of your arguement is that he should sit Rondo rather than be frustrated with the team.   My arguement is that this is his way of dealing with the kid's performance and that he's looking for the team to communicate with each other about their mistakes.   yes, he could sit Rondo, but I don't think Arroyo is capable of guarding any fast point guard and West is clearly still injured (foot).

    Last point.  Please take a look at these two links and you'll see my evidence on why I don't think Doc has lost his team, why I don't see him as blaming his players but rather taking/sharing responsibility, and how they have faith in themselves - something I hope the fans on this board start to do a little more of rather than say the sky is falling because we hit this losing streak.

    http://sports.espn.go.com/boston/nba/news/story?id=6261033

    http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/celtics/post/_/id/4682188/dont-expect-losses-to-get-to-celtics
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Celtsfan4life. Show Celtsfan4life's posts

    Re: Doc, stop complaining!!

    Karllost, i know that was long and most people won't read that much and check out the links.  But, since you and I are having an honest disagreement, I hope you'll read it and comment.  I'll check back later to see if you have a reaction to my post.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Karllost. Show Karllost's posts

    Re: Doc, stop complaining!!

    In Response to Re: Doc, stop complaining!!:
    [QUOTE]Karllost, i know that was long and most people won't read that much and check out the links.  But, since you and I are having an honest disagreement, I hope you'll read it and comment.  I'll check back later to see if you have a reaction to my post.
    Posted by Celtsfan4life[/QUOTE]

    Maybe, just maybe the heat of this argument is making you say thngs that arent true.  Where did I ever suggest DOc bench ROndo? Where did I ever suggest we play Sasha in crucial times of the game instead of our starters??

    My suggestion was if Docs gonna continue to complain about the play of the starters, LIMIT some of their minutes.  I dont want to beat this into the ground, its clear our opinions differ.

    Ive been reading your posts on this forum for awhile..  I look forward to them as I believe much of what you have to say hits the nail on the head.  But we're just oil & vinegar on this one... and our debateon this subject is going nowhere.

    Lets hope the C's win by 30 tonight with Rondos box 18pts, 15 assts, 1 TO ... and PP 11-17, 27 pts 9 reb.... and they both sat out the 4th qtr.. along with the rest of the starters.. cya on another thread





     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Celtsfan4life. Show Celtsfan4life's posts

    Re: Doc, stop complaining!!

    Karllost, that's fair. Le's agree to disagree and move on.   Let's hope the Celts wstart winning as of today.  Tought road stretch.

    As for saying things that aren't true - i try never to make that mistake.  i'm sorry if I did.  Your original post in this string said:  quote: Doc may say things in the huddle, in practice but apparently hes unwilling to sit a starter that continues to not do his job.

    Combined with all of the "he should sit the pouting Rondo" posts, I assumed you were saying he should sit Rondo.  I reacted because Arroyo can't guard people in my opinion and West is hurt.   So, if you weren't saying Doc should sit starters at critical times, then yes, I read you wrong.  My bad.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from OneNation. Show OneNation's posts

    Re: Doc, stop complaining!!

    In Response to Re: Doc, stop complaining!!:
    [QUOTE]Calm down folk's there isn't any conspiracy going on, they're just going through a rough patch right now. The question is will they be able to turn it on for the remainder of the season and into the play-offs. As much as I hate to say it, we need to get the O'neals in uniforms and on the court. Not for any other reason  then the p sychological effect on Pierce and Garnett. Trading 1 player (Perkins) who barely played this year can't be the issue. Their record was better with O'neal as the starter than with Perk. Doc needs to find away to fix the ship with what he has to work with. Doc's system doesn't work for all types of players, so he needs to adjust his system instead of the new players having to adjust to him. The perfect example is Krstic, who was playing better before he new Doc's system. The same goes for Murphy he is not the most athletic player but could play a role if we utilize his abilities the right way. So as much as Doc wants to put this on the starters he needs to do his job and adjust to what he has to work with.
    Posted by paulbrr7[/QUOTE]
    I agree with you on the conspiracy theory dude. Just makes fodder for the board. I am one who thinks this will be righted when the post season comes around. I believe in this group. And if I'm wrong so what? Hell, they ain't paying me nothing.
     

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