Doc Tears Into Team, Threatens Trades if Team Doesn't Improve

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from snakeoil123. Show snakeoil123's posts

    Re: Doc Tears Into Team, Threatens Trades if Team Doesn't Improve

    Not defending Rondo, but if he is a bad leader, and the rest of the team is following his lead, who is really at fault?

     
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  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from OneOnOne. Show OneOnOne's posts

    Re: Doc Tears Into Team, Threatens Trades if Team Doesn't Improve

     


    I am not sure I understand what you talking about.  Of course Rondo wasn't the issue then,  PP and KG were the ones that were suppose to carry the team and they did so.

      That's why it's unfair to ask Rondo to carry the team. 

     Rondo is limited offensively, he doesn't have a 3-point shot and he's not a great FT shooter. That's why he's not going to excel if he's being asked to become Magic Johnson. Rondo's more Stockton than Magic Johnson.

     


    As I recall Stockton could shoot the ball and shoot free throws.

     

    If your want to be the superstar then you have to take what comes with it.

    If Rondo can't carry the team,  maybe he is more expendable than people think.  I disagree though,  I think he can carry the team when he WANTS to.  He would rather get a assist though. Last night he has a point blank layup, KG next to him with a guy under his feet and RR doesn't shoot a uncontested layup,  he passed the ball to KG.  Terrible play that worked out.  I can live with him having a off shooting nite.  I can't live with the matador defense and the obscene number of turnovers. 

    We don't have a non touchable any more unless its Sully.  We don't know what he can do yet.  Right player and he can go as well.

     



    Rondo is not a superstar yet.  If he not a superstar at this age, chances are he will never be one,  only a good player.

     

    And he's improved his FT shooting. Only one place to go and thats up,  from .620 to .635, for a pt guard that is unacceptable.

     

    Like I said, explore trading Rondo after the season.  Like I said,  no one is untouchable right now.  Pretty certain DA will do what he thinks is necessary.

     




     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from concord27. Show concord27's posts

    Re: Doc Tears Into Team, Threatens Trades if Team Doesn't Improve

    In response to kyceltic's comment:

    Time for Doc to join Avery johnson. Time for the Celtics to rebuild, Rondo needs to go he is not good enough to build around. KG needs to retire at the end of the year, Paul needs to be traded to a contender, the Grizzlies or the Clippers for younger players. Pierce can still be a very good player, but there is way to much pressure on him here, he knows if he doesn't have big scoring games the Celtics will more than likely lose!!  Green and Terry needs to go as well, if anyone would trade for them Ainge needs to get it done, if not Amnesty Green at the end of the year.  The worst thing this team could  do would be to limp into the playoffs as a 6 to 8th seed. Sully and Melo i would keep, Lee is worth keeping too, not as players that can carry a team, but as good young players who can really help a team.  We need to free up money to sign a super star or close to super star free agent, we also need to get lucky in the draft and pick someone who can develop into a stud!!  It's over guys, the Pierce, KG and Ray era was fun, we won a ring and easily could have won 2 more, if not for injuries, but it's time to start a new Celtic era now. The sooner we get started the sooner the Celtics will be in the hunt again!!



    Kyceltic,

    I don't agree with you about Doc.  I do think your analysis of Rondo is right on. He is not good enough to carry a team.  Night in night out he can't consistently do what a star does for his team. A star or supertstar scores  when a team needs scoring,  gets the ball to players not involved who need to be and leads the team when it goes cold.  Rondo does this intermittently and it not going to change. Especially with Garnett and Pierce gone or playing minimally.  A trade for Cousins would help Rondo but in the end it may be Rondo who is the only thing we have that will bring a Cousins here.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from OneOnOne. Show OneOnOne's posts

    Re: Doc Tears Into Team, Threatens Trades if Team Doesn't Improve

    In response to concord27's comment:

    In response to kyceltic's comment:

     

    Time for Doc to join Avery johnson. Time for the Celtics to rebuild, Rondo needs to go he is not good enough to build around. KG needs to retire at the end of the year, Paul needs to be traded to a contender, the Grizzlies or the Clippers for younger players. Pierce can still be a very good player, but there is way to much pressure on him here, he knows if he doesn't have big scoring games the Celtics will more than likely lose!!  Green and Terry needs to go as well, if anyone would trade for them Ainge needs to get it done, if not Amnesty Green at the end of the year.  The worst thing this team could  do would be to limp into the playoffs as a 6 to 8th seed. Sully and Melo i would keep, Lee is worth keeping too, not as players that can carry a team, but as good young players who can really help a team.  We need to free up money to sign a super star or close to super star free agent, we also need to get lucky in the draft and pick someone who can develop into a stud!!  It's over guys, the Pierce, KG and Ray era was fun, we won a ring and easily could have won 2 more, if not for injuries, but it's time to start a new Celtic era now. The sooner we get started the sooner the Celtics will be in the hunt again!!

     



    Kyceltic,

     

    I don't agree with you about Doc.  I do think your analysis of Rondo is right on. He is not good enough to carry a team.  Night in night out he can't consistently do what a star does for his team. A star or supertstar scores  when a team needs scoring,  gets the ball to players not involved who need to be and leads the team when it goes cold.  Rondo does this intermittently and it not going to change. Especially with Garnett and Pierce gone or playing minimally.  A trade for Cousins would help Rondo but in the end it may be Rondo who is the only thing we have that will bring a Cousins here.



    Bingo!!!!!

     
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  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from OneOnOne. Show OneOnOne's posts

    Re: Doc Tears Into Team, Threatens Trades if Team Doesn't Improve

    In response to Fierce34's comment:

    Rondo is not a superstar yet.  If he not a superstar at this age, chances are he will never be one,  only a good player.

     

    And he's improved his FT shooting. Only one place to go and thats up,  from .620 to .635, for a pt guard that is unacceptable.

     

    Like I said, explore trading Rondo after the season.  Like I said,  no one is untouchable right now.  Pretty certain DA will do what he thinks is necessary.

     

    There's still a chance Rondo becomes a superstar. I think we'll know for sure after 2 more seasons. That is if he will not be traded.

    True his FTs needs to be higher. But he improved from last season.

    I think the Celtics can build on Rondo and Sully. Both should be untouchable this season.



    So you will know for sure when he is 29 years old?   I can usually identify a superstar long before he becomes 29 years old.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from hedleylamarr. Show hedleylamarr's posts

    Re: Doc Tears Into Team, Threatens Trades if Team Doesn't Improve

    I say if we trade Rondo (hypothetically) for Evans and Cousins, we are BETTER now and in the future........................we'd get fewer assists but more points out of Evans.  He is 6'6"
     and is only 23 years old.  In addition, he is in a contract year.  See what the kid can do, because I am at the how-could-it-get-any-worse stage!!!!!!!

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from OneOnOne. Show OneOnOne's posts

    Re: Doc Tears Into Team, Threatens Trades if Team Doesn't Improve

    In response to hedleylamarr's comment:

    I say if we trade Rondo (hypothetically) for Evans and Cousins, we are BETTER now and in the future........................we'd get fewer assists but more points out of Evans.  He is 6'6"
     and is only 23 years old.  In addition, he is in a contract year.  See what the kid can do, because I am at the how-could-it-get-any-worse stage!!!!!!!



    I can go along with that.  Two young players for one, including a necessary big man.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from concord27. Show concord27's posts

    Re: Doc Tears Into Team, Threatens Trades if Team Doesn't Improve

    In response to OneOnOne's comment:

    In response to hedleylamarr's comment:

     

    I say if we trade Rondo (hypothetically) for Evans and Cousins, we are BETTER now and in the future........................we'd get fewer assists but more points out of Evans.  He is 6'6"
     and is only 23 years old.  In addition, he is in a contract year.  See what the kid can do, because I am at the how-could-it-get-any-worse stage!!!!!!!

     



    I can go along with that.  Two young players for one, including a necessary big man.

     



    All valid points.  Evans is a mystery and we would have to know why he has underperformed since his rookie season.

     
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  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from concord27. Show concord27's posts

    Re: Doc Tears Into Team, Threatens Trades if Team Doesn't Improve

    In response to DFURY-13's comment:

    This team on paper should be an elite team. Rondo's immaturity couple with the underperforming of Terry and Bass and the inconsistency of Green. Bass in 1 1/2 seasons doeasnt grasp the rotation of the defense and hasn't been consistant offensively. He has the Blount curse. With Terry I can see why Cuban didn't pony up.

    Rondo has to start acting like a leader on this team or he has to go. It's as simple as that. Right now they have two choices. REbuild or go after the one piece they are missing. They need a Center and they need it now. Garnett and Pierce aren't the problem with this team. You can't ask Garnett to bang with legit Centers and you can't ask Pierce to pick up the big that Bass loses in the rotation. Those guys have played there hearts out. Bradley and Sullinger have helped. Those guys I look at as untouchable.

    This teams staying on the winning path is up to Ainge and Doc. They need to do something and do it now.



    Amen.

     
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  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from gman101019. Show gman101019's posts

    Re: Doc Tears Into Team, Threatens Trades if Team Doesn't Improve

    I think its funny when people say u cant build around rondo. What do u propose we do? U think if we trade rondo that your going to get a player who is BETTER than him? Rondo is an excellent player, the problem is if u only have 1 of those guys it dont matter how good he is, its not enough. Lebron, kobe,dwade, all are superior to rondo and they couldnt do it by themselves. Rondo needs help. KG and pp are still good players and on some nights very good, but they are not superstars anymore and they cant play the minutes a superstar can either. So they effect  games less and less even when they r feeling it. 

    Rondo is a top 25 player in the league, but u need a top 5 and a top 25 player, to have a legit chance to win it all. Like lebron and dwade, durant and westbrook, chris paul and blake griffin. Kobe and dhoward. We dont have that. And there is no move thats gonna give us that. The only thing we can do is maximize our roster. Which means try to dump the dead weight out of bbass,jgreen,lee, terry. I dont know y any team would want those guys, but maybe we can take back a bad deal  or an expiring deal that fills a need and shortens our bench.

     

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from celtic213. Show celtic213's posts

    Re: Doc Tears Into Team, Threatens Trades if Team Doesn't Improve

    celtics just need to make a trade and make it quickly, id myself look at trading pierce hes stilll a good player just asked to do way to much for this team, when this team used to struggle scoring they would just isolate pierce to spark the offense now when they isolate pierce he just furthers the problem

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from pinnacle10. Show pinnacle10's posts

    Re: Doc Tears Into Team, Threatens Trades if Team Doesn't Improve

    This looks like the way to go to me too.  The 2nd unit looks like it could be led by Barbosa and Green offensively and if Terry ever gets it together he could be key in some 4th quarters playing with the starters replacing Bradley.

    In response to R9R's comment:

     

    The question is, who is the best 5th player. Gotta go with Pierce. He is your offense. So there it is:

    Rondo, Bradley, Pierce, Sullinger, Garnett.

    that leaves:

    Barbosa, Lee, Terry, Green, Bass, Wilcox, Collins off the bench.




     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from susan250. Show susan250's posts

    Re: Doc Tears Into Team, Threatens Trades if Team Doesn't Improve

    In response to OneOnOne's comment:

    In response to hedleylamarr's comment:

     

    I say if we trade Rondo (hypothetically) for Evans and Cousins, we are BETTER now and in the future........................we'd get fewer assists but more points out of Evans.  He is 6'6"
     and is only 23 years old.  In addition, he is in a contract year.  See what the kid can do, because I am at the how-could-it-get-any-worse stage!!!!!!!

     



    I can go along with that.  Two young players for one, including a necessary big man.

     


    Trading for Cousins and Evans could work.  If Evans is a good replacement for Rondo, it would be a good trade.  The current Celtics team doesn't really have an adequate replacement for Rondo.  If we can acquire a big and someone to replace Rondo it could prove to be a good grade for the Celtics.  I am still not sure if Sacramento is in a positon to make any trades at the current time because of the sale of the team and move to Seattle. 

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Celtsfan4life. Show Celtsfan4life's posts

    Re: Doc Tears Into Team, Threatens Trades if Team Doesn't Improve

    In response to Fierce34's comment:

    In response to BirdLewsBias' comment:

     

    I've been saying for two years that this team takes on the personality of Rondo. They are up, down and inconsistent.

    The team goes as Rondo goes. I don't believe he'll ever change...he is who he is. Ainge has a decision to make...trade Rondo or continue to deal with the suspensions, great play, games he's uninterested in, etc. Does he want Rondo to be the real leader of the Celtics?

     

     

     



    Rondo was not an issue when KG was 32 years old and Pierce was just 30 years old.

     



    Of course, not, Fierce.  He became an issue after they got older and it was supposed to be HIS team.  The mantel have been handed to him but he's not mature enough nor consistent enough.  He's certainly talented enough, but talent, alone, doesn't make a leader!

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from srinivasa. Show srinivasa's posts

    Re: Doc Tears Into Team, Threatens Trades if Team Doesn't Improve

     I am still not sure if Sacramento is in a positon to make any trades at the current time because of the sale of the team and move to Seattle.  

    Good point Susan. And if the Kings trade Cousins they'll want Bradley.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Celtsfan4life. Show Celtsfan4life's posts

    Re: Doc Tears Into Team, Threatens Trades if Team Doesn't Improve

    In response to snakeoil123's comment:

    In response to BirdLewsBias' comment:

     

    I've been saying for two years that this team takes on the personality of Rondo. They are up, down and inconsistent.

    The team goes as Rondo goes. I don't believe he'll ever change...he is who he is. Ainge has a decision to make...trade Rondo or continue to deal with the suspensions, great play, games he's uninterested in, etc. Does he want Rondo to be the real leader of the Celtics?

     

     

     




     

    So its Rondo's fault that the rest of the team are weak and let him lead?



    Not Rondo's fault......its just that he's not the solution.  So, those saying build around Rondo are too optimistic.   He has to be a key role player but he's not the leader Doc and Danny and KG keep saying he is.   He needs a couple of new hall of famers to carry him or keep him in line.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from kyceltic. Show kyceltic's posts

    Re: Doc Tears Into Team, Threatens Trades if Team Doesn't Improve

    In response to Celtsfan4life's comment:

    In response to snakeoil123's comment:

     

    In response to BirdLewsBias' comment:

     

    I've been saying for two years that this team takes on the personality of Rondo. They are up, down and inconsistent.

    The team goes as Rondo goes. I don't believe he'll ever change...he is who he is. Ainge has a decision to make...trade Rondo or continue to deal with the suspensions, great play, games he's uninterested in, etc. Does he want Rondo to be the real leader of the Celtics?

     

     

     




     

    So its Rondo's fault that the rest of the team are weak and let him lead?

     



    Not Rondo's fault......its just that he's not the solution.  So, those saying build around Rondo are too optimistic.   He has to be a key role player but he's not the leader Doc and Danny and KG keep saying he is.   He needs a couple of new hall of famers to carry him or keep him in line.

     

      You got it!!


     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Celtsfan4life. Show Celtsfan4life's posts

    Re: Doc Tears Into Team, Threatens Trades if Team Doesn't Improve

    In response to DFURY-13's comment:

    This team on paper should be an elite team. Rondo's immaturity couple with the underperforming of Terry and Bass and the inconsistency of Green. Bass in 1 1/2 seasons doeasnt grasp the rotation of the defense and hasn't been consistant offensively. He has the Blount curse. With Terry I can see why Cuban didn't pony up.

    Rondo has to start acting like a leader on this team or he has to go. It's as simple as that. Right now they have two choices. REbuild or go after the one piece they are missing. They need a Center and they need it now. Garnett and Pierce aren't the problem with this team. You can't ask Garnett to bang with legit Centers and you can't ask Pierce to pick up the big that Bass loses in the rotation. Those guys have played there hearts out. Bradley and Sullinger have helped. Those guys I look at as untouchable.

    This teams staying on the winning path is up to Ainge and Doc. They need to do something and do it now.



    +2.

    Doc has to say to Danny - I have had enough.....get Bass and Terry out of here or "I'm willing to part with Rondo if we get a great quality big in exchange then find a guard who's not as good but will suffie".   Danny, however, has the hard work of trying to actually get something done.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from srinivasa. Show srinivasa's posts

    Re: Doc Tears Into Team, Threatens Trades if Team Doesn't Improve

    God knows Ray tried to keep him in line, maybe he was the only one who acknowledged what would happen if you hand to reigns to Rondo. Pierce seems to get it too Rondo can't lead us to the promised land. KG has an alliance with Rondo from the start, thinking under his tutelage he'd mature into our leader and I guess it's hard for KG to review his original stance because of the relationship they have. Danny tried to trade him but there were just no takers, so they decided to go along and hope it would work out. Doc tried the mental approach with the free spirit thing and his high BB IQ and so on. They even created a job for Dooling to mentor Rondo. It's a complex situation that goes back to 2007.

    It will be hard to get a deal done that makes us a contender again, maybe it's best to let them play out the season and rebuild in the summer. If we can make a trade for the future then do it.

    Envision the C's without Pierce and KG and Rondo as our leader (or best player). We're a chicken in a pot.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from shines01. Show shines01's posts

    This is NOT an elite team on paper

    The Celtics do not have a starting center.  Kevin Garnett is a power forward, not a center.  KG can spell a center for a few minutes and, perhaps, you can argue that 4s and 5s are almost interchangeable.  Personally, I disagree with that.  You can't have an elite team without a starting center AND a starting power forward.  KG can rotate until his rectum falls out but he cannot be two players at once or consistently handle Tyson Chandler's or Brook Lopez'.  If the Celtics cannot get a true starting center like Marcin Gortat or Chris Kaman or someone LIKE Kendrick Perkis who is willing to move their feet on defense, we are going nowhere.  That's what I have said all season long and I wasn't fooled by the six wins in a row or the return of Avery Bradley.  There is absolutely no way a defense-oriented off guard changes the personality of a team sufficiently to cover up such a glaring NBA deficiency as the lack of an adequate starting center.  I also said I will no longer cover for Rondo.  I don't know what his malfunction is and I don't care.  I'd love to see this team WITH Bradley, Sullinger, Rondo AND a starting center but the trade bait doesn't seem to be there.  Maybe it's time to just take out chances with Fab Melo and trade Brandon Bass for a bag of worms.

     
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