Does anyone have a good explanation for the 4th quarter letdowns?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from rpn313. Show rpn313's posts

    Does anyone have a good explanation for the 4th quarter letdowns?

    You would think after last year and the start of this year that Doc would figure a way to either keep the team motivated or conditioned.  Why does every game have to a be a nail biter at the end?
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Waynestarr. Show Waynestarr's posts

    Re: Does anyone have a good explanation for the 4th quarter letdowns?

    My hunch is that they get a little too complacent, comfortable, and let their foot off the gas, or they just get a lil winded in the 4th quarter.

    Whichever reason it is, they have to make adjustments. If this was a closer game, they probably would have blown the game.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from P34. Show P34's posts

    Re: Does anyone have a good explanation for the 4th quarter letdowns?

    In Response to Does anyone have a good explanation for the 4th quarter letdowns?:
    [QUOTE]You would think after last year and the start of this year that Doc would figure a way to either keep the team motivated or conditioned.  Why does every game have to a be a nail biter at the end?
    Posted by rpn313[/QUOTE]

    No lead is safe in the NBA. It doesn't mean that if you have a lead 20 or more you automatically win the game. 

    Rondo's poor FT shooting also has to do with why the Celtics struggle late in the 4th qtr. Why? Nobody can guard Rondo 1 on 1, but he can't go all out in the 4th because he's avoiding a trip to the foul line. 
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from edcap99. Show edcap99's posts

    Re: Does anyone have a good explanation for the 4th quarter letdowns?

    I'd like to add foul trouble to the list. In tonight's game PP, BBD and PP all had five fouls in the fourth quarter.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from KGLove. Show KGLove's posts

    Re: Does anyone have a good explanation for the 4th quarter letdowns?

    Fouls, Fouls, Fouls, and more fouls I mean really how many FTs did Bron shoot to end the 4th ... as for Rondo he was 2/4 for FT's cant really blame him... and we were up 20 in the third but by the end only 10 to start the 4th...
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from btownteamsrking. Show btownteamsrking's posts

    Re: Does anyone have a good explanation for the 4th quarter letdowns?

    that annoying whistling noise.

    oh damn. i just heard it again.

    the foul differential is disgusting.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from lovetruth007. Show lovetruth007's posts

    Re: Does anyone have a good explanation for the 4th quarter letdowns?

    Cs play defense and hope to take early leads and then cruise to win. The cost of doing so are the foul trouble and fatigue. Stars are old. If other young teams go crazy in the second half and play fast breaks, Cs' defense is not effective. If Cs offense does not help, the big lead goes away. Game 7 of finals, Fakers tied the game in the middle of 4th quarter and took the lead to the end.

    The solution is offense. The best defense is offense. If Cs shoot the ball well like the Miami game tonight, they will take early leads and hold on to win.

    Can Cs generate enough offense? They need to make free throws and make jump shots. They desparately need to make fewer redundant passes and cut turn overs. They need rebound, rebound, and rebound. No rebound, no ring.

    Rondo needs to improve his shots and FTs. KG needs to score layups, tip ins and take the ball to the rim in the paint. Paul needs to better handle his dribbles. Ray needs to make better passes and cut the fumbles. The injured Perk needs to cut Tech fouls and illegal picks (moving picks) when he returns. Easy to say man.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from LloydDobler. Show LloydDobler's posts

    Re: Does anyone have a good explanation for the 4th quarter letdowns?

    Some of that is to be expected. You can't go into Miami, take a 20-point lead, and expect to cruise. Home teams especially are going to make a run, especially teams with that kind of talent.
     
    That said, the C's took some ill-advised shots, Ray's dunk attempt the most obvious. It's an issue, but I'm more happy with the win than I am concerned about the endgame.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from siestafiesta. Show siestafiesta's posts

    Re: Does anyone have a good explanation for the 4th quarter letdowns?

    "Rondo's poor FT shooting also has to do with why the Celtics struggle late in the 4th qtr. Why? Nobody can guard Rondo 1 on 1, but he can't go all out in the 4th because he's avoiding a trip to the foul line."

    P34 is on the button with this.  I wouldn't say it affects them for the whole 4th qtr but definitely think it's the biggest factor why they're having trouble closing out games.   Rondo runs the team like a maestro for the 1st 46 minutes but then they take the ball out of his hands down the stretch and the whole offense becomes stagnant.  I don't blame Doc.  You can't have a 50% FT shooter with the ball in his hands while you're trying to protect the lead.  I love Rondo but this is a big blemish on his game
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from cole-ely. Show cole-ely's posts

    Re: Does anyone have a good explanation for the 4th quarter letdowns?

    calls.  ray allen was clobbered across the chin and arm on that "miss."  Criss bosch took 4 steps when kg pulled the chair out from under him.  Freakin obvious.  Prime directive nba:  no blowouts on national tv.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from futbal. Show futbal's posts

    Re: Does anyone have a good explanation for the 4th quarter letdowns?

    Q4s often become increasingly half court games; last night was a good example. With Rondo at the point, his man slacked off him to the foul line or lower daring him to shoot, which he did not. This takes away the lane for cutters (like Paul) and allows the defense to double anyone they chose since there is always an extra defender (Rondo's guy) to switch to guard the player who was left open on the double. If the fourth quarter remains a running game, than Rondo can win the quarter on his own, like he often does in quarters 1 thru 3, he's that good in the open court. But watch some replays from last night late in Q4 and you'll see what I'm talking about. It really is an advantage to the defense IN SET COURT OFFENSES when the point guard will not shoot from outside. To me Rondo with an outside shot is MVP material, but the reality is he's a 3.5 quarter all star that should be subbed with a shooter in SET OFFENSES ONLY at crunch time (i.e., on offense only, keep him in for defense and transition plays).  If Rondo ever gets confident from the outside, he'll end up better than Isiah (I think his boyhood idle).
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Karllost. Show Karllost's posts

    Re: Does anyone have a good explanation for the 4th quarter letdowns?

    We start standing around, running down the shot clock and wind up with a poor shot.. Thats been my observation. PP usually takes the ball if Rondo gives it up and goes 1on1... gets trapped and turns it over or settles for a poor shot.

    The other thing is fouls.. the refs call some crazy games.. they somehow missed Ray getting chopped on his dunk, yea, even with everyone watching his breakaway, no ref caught that tomahawk!

    Speaking of which, was a poor decision by Ray... shoulda run the clock down.. Rondo too.. I think it was under 2 mins and a weak shot is going up with 10 secs on the clock. Not smart.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Karllost. Show Karllost's posts

    Re: Does anyone have a good explanation for the 4th quarter letdowns?

    In Response to Re: Does anyone have a good explanation for the 4th quarter letdowns?:
    [QUOTE]Q4s often become increasingly half court games; last night was a good example. With Rondo at the point, his man slacked off him to the foul line or lower daring him to shoot, which he did not. This takes away the lane for cutters (like Paul) and allows the defense to double anyone they chose since there is always an extra defender (Rondo's guy) to switch to guard the player who was left open on the double. If the fourth quarter remains a running game, than Rondo can win the quarter on his own, like he often does in quarters 1 thru 3, he's that good in the open court. But watch some replays from last night late in Q4 and you'll see what I'm talking about. It really is an advantage to the defense IN SET COURT OFFENSES when the point guard will not shoot from outside. To me Rondo with an outside shot is MVP material, but the reality is he's a 3.5 quarter all star that should be subbed with a shooter in SET OFFENSES ONLY at crunch time (i.e., on offense only, keep him in for defense and transition plays).  If Rondo ever gets confident from the outside, he'll end up better than Isiah (I think his boyhood idle).
    Posted by futbal[/QUOTE]

    futbal,  would be great for Rondo to get a good touch from the perimeter, would make him scary..but I dont see him in the category of Zeke.

    Isiah had skills that were sick and a shot to match.  Talent wise there arent many, perhaps a couple that could even be compared favorably to him skill wise. Theres always an argument about who's the greatest this or that... but Isiah fans have enough ammo to go toe to toe with just about any guard in history..

    for the record, I dont like the guy but have to respect how great a player he was.  Rondo would need to get more than just decent from the outside to be compared to Isiah imo.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from LloydDobler. Show LloydDobler's posts

    Re: Does anyone have a good explanation for the 4th quarter letdowns?

    In Response to Re: Does anyone have a good explanation for the 4th quarter letdowns?:
    [QUOTE]We start standing around, running down the shot clock and wind up with a poor shot.. Thats been my observation. PP usually takes the ball if Rondo gives it up and goes 1on1... gets trapped and turns it over or settles for a poor shot. The other thing is fouls.. the refs call some crazy games.. they somehow missed Ray getting chopped on his dunk, yea, even with everyone watching his breakaway, no ref caught that tomahawk! Speaking of which, was a poor decision by Ray... shoulda run the clock down.. Rondo too.. I think it was under 2 mins and a weak shot is going up with 10 secs on the clock. Not smart.
    Posted by Karllost[/QUOTE]

    On the miss with about 2 minutes left, you mean? The guy didn't touch him. Announcers were saying what a great defensive play it was, and the guy didn't even touch him or the ball.
    But you're right, Ray screwed up on that play. Still, his good far outweighed his bad last night.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from futbal. Show futbal's posts

    Re: Does anyone have a good explanation for the 4th quarter letdowns?

    Pauls ISOs don't work because he gets doubled (Rondo's man) and is hesitant to get the ball to the open Rondo because Rondo won't shoot it so all that is is a clock waster. If Doc wants Rondo in the game at crunch time, they are better off sticking him in the corner like they used to in 2008/09 so at least for 1/2 of the court (the side he's not on) the number of offensive players and defensive players will match up (no free doubles); I also think Rondo shoots better from the side (left) as well.
    Karllost, Agree with you on Zeke, plus truth is Rondo doesn't have that touch so it's moot; my only point was he does so much as a player that I appreciate, I just didn't want my post to get dismissed as hating on him even though in truth, I think he hurts the set offense late in games.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from BiasLewis. Show BiasLewis's posts

    Re: Does anyone have a good explanation for the 4th quarter letdowns?

    I think Heinsohn hit it on the head. We're walking the ball up the court and starting the offense too late. It's natural to become more cautious as the game winds down but the shot clock start ticking down and we take bad shots, which leads to easy baskets for the other team. It pumps them up because they think their defense is what caused us to miss, thus it sparks their offense and then you have the other team going on a run.

    Rondo needs to just keep playing and being aggressive in the 4th.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from dboss. Show dboss's posts

    Re: Does anyone have a good explanation for the 4th quarter letdowns?

    Good teams that are down big usually make a run.  Why the Celtics cannot seem to beat a team by 20 wire to wire has a lot of factors.

    First they are still playing without a full hand so when the bigs get in foul trouble the defense becomes less agressive.  The Celtics signed West because they need a reliable perimeter shooter.  When West comes back and the front line is healthy the Celtics will start to blow teams away.

    7-2 is a great record at this point

    dboss
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from aciemvp. Show aciemvp's posts

    Re: Does anyone have a good explanation for the 4th quarter letdowns?

    i know we lost a lead last night.  but the game STILL was never close.  not even close to close. 

    i love the fact that the miami lukewarm heat can rest their laurels on this "comeback" they had to only lose by 5.  and they will do just that internally even if they don't speak it out loud.  the person who will most do this is lebron. 

    through less than 10 games, he has blamed spoelstra indirectly and directly and is tearing his team apart.  he takes no responsibiltiy and grasps at straws to explain his own failures.  if this lost lead last night can contribute further to lebron's mental illness, then i'm glad we lost the lead to put another fake crutch in lebron's mind.

    other than that, we do need to shore up 4th quarters better than we have been.  i think it will come in time.  so far we are not LOSING games but eroding leads.  last year we were busy losing a lot of these games.  so long as we don't let it get to losing a lot of games through lost leads, we'll grow through it with this veteran core.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from TeamUmbutu. Show TeamUmbutu's posts

    Re: Does anyone have a good explanation for the 4th quarter letdowns?

    As usual there are several good comments.

    Last night is was probably a combination of issues.

    Rondo slows the ball down allowing the defense to get set for the opposition.

    Rondo is not guarded because the opponents want him to take the shot,

    Rondo will not drive the lane at the end, because he is afraid to shoot free throws.

    Foul trouble -  Pierce had five fouls, and our bigs had high numbers of fouls so our defense suffered dramatically in the fourth quarter. The Heat shooting percentage was terrible in the first half, however, by the end of the game they were shooting 50%, mainly because of Lebron's running back plays.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from walk2run. Show walk2run's posts

    Re: Does anyone have a good explanation for the 4th quarter letdowns?

    Yeah the Cs get tired of whoopin that a&$!!!! lmao
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from aciemvp. Show aciemvp's posts

    Re: Does anyone have a good explanation for the 4th quarter letdowns?

    In Response to Re: Does anyone have a good explanation for the 4th quarter letdowns?:
    [QUOTE]Rondo is not guarded because the opponents want him to take the shot, Rondo will not drive the lane at the end, because he is afraid to shoot free throws.
    Posted by TeamUmbutu[/QUOTE]

    does doc dare to play the solution to this that he may have in a west-nate tandem for triple threat point guard AND ability to get ray rest? 

    or at least delonte at the PG as opposed to rondo late in games?  might that finally scare rajon into getting his shot sorted out- after five years of not getting it done- i hope.  i hope that delonte is around and not hurt.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from BrotherBillStill. Show BrotherBillStill's posts

    Re: Does anyone have a good explanation for the 4th quarter letdowns?

    They change their identity in the 4th. I don't understand why PP starts to bring the ball up the floor. It slows everything down. Granted, I love Pierce as a closer, time and time again he hits huge, clutch shots, but last night he was forcing it, and that's happened a couple times this season already. If Rondo is too much of a free throw risk at that point in the game, why not play Nate at point with the starters? He can run the plays too, and we don't always have to ISO for the captain.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from cole-ely. Show cole-ely's posts

    Re: Does anyone have a good explanation for the 4th quarter letdowns?

    In Response to Re: Does anyone have a good explanation for the 4th quarter letdowns?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Does anyone have a good explanation for the 4th quarter letdowns? : On the miss with about 2 minutes left, you mean? The guy didn't touch him. Announcers were saying what a great defensive play it was, and the guy didn't even touch him or the ball. But you're right, Ray screwed up on that play. Still, his good far outweighed his bad last night.
    Posted by LloydDobler[/QUOTE]

    You're right that the ball wasn't touched, but the arms hit around the elbows and his elbow followed through to hit ray on the chin literally.  The body's collided big time.  I'm sorry lloyd, but you're absolutely wrong.  I challenge anybody to go back and look at the slowmo.

    Since the emergence of the lebron phenom of blocking the layup from behind, and the catching on of that by dwade, the refs have decided that as long as it's clean up top, it's ok to bounce the guy into the stands with the body like a pinball.  Hello, you can't run into the guy with the body either.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from puddinpuddin. Show puddinpuddin's posts

    Re: Does anyone have a good explanation for the 4th quarter letdowns?

    In Response to Re: Does anyone have a good explanation for the 4th quarter letdowns?:
    [QUOTE]They change their identity in the 4th. I don't understand why PP starts to bring the ball up the floor. It slows everything down. Granted, I love Pierce as a closer, time and time again he hits huge, clutch shots, but last night he was forcing it, and that's happened a couple times this season already. If Rondo is too much of a free throw risk at that point in the game, why not play Nate at point with the starters? He can run the plays too, and we don't always have to ISO for the captain.
    Posted by Brother_Bill[/QUOTE]

    Yes they change their identity in the fourth quarter. Actually it starts midway thru the 3rd quarter.

    We have Dr. Jeckle and Mr. Hyde playing PG.

    As dynamic as Jeckle is in the first half, Mr. Hyde typically shows up as the game slows down and begins to grind in a half court chess game.

    The only hope is that with electrifying Dr. Jeckle playing the first half, we can get far enough ahead to withstand the run when a timid Mr. Hyde appears.

    Pud
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from FenwayHHH. Show FenwayHHH's posts

    Re: Does anyone have a good explanation for the 4th quarter letdowns?

    yes i do and it boils down to the box score...look at the unreal differential in fouls...the officiating favortism in the entire game from robinson's "tech" to the beat down ray suffered with 50 seconds left was ludicrous
     

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