Dr Buss on Lakers/Celtics

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Duke4. Show Duke4's posts

    Dr Buss on Lakers/Celtics

    Dr Buss gave an interesting interview on the Lakers' method of building teams (AOL Sports)...to paraphrase it's all about spending the money needed to contend for the championship every year. The Lakers had the highest payroll last year and spent more money this year. Even as a Celtic fan, I still have to admire what he has done over the years...it was interesting to read that he was a fan before he bought the team and he was miserable (along with everyone else in LA) watching the Celtics beat the Lakers year after year....he said the goal he set was to try to get the Lakers to the Celtics level and to start winning championships....he certainly has done well....he is quoted as saying that beating the Celtics is something special.....again, this points out what a great rivalry this is....no mention of putting up the Minny banner in 2002...but I think that was, as has been speculated, another way to "get the Lakers closer to the Celtics"....and I do believe that the Lakers have 16 titles...as a Dodger fan, I count the one in Brooklyn in 1955....
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Duke4. Show Duke4's posts

    Re: Dr Buss on Lakers/Celtics

    Nice post....I agree completely!
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from paulliu. Show paulliu's posts

    Re: Dr Buss on Lakers/Celtics

    The Lakers can claim the Minny titles as their own but this does not change the overwhelming inference that they do so only so they can claim that they are catching up to the Celtics.

    My understanding is that they did not even acknowlege the Minny titles even in the shabby way they chose to do so until 2002.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Duke4. Show Duke4's posts

    Re: Dr Buss on Lakers/Celtics

    Paul, that is the real point of contention....I agree that this was never a discussion prior to the 2000's.....when the Lakers had their three-peat, suddenly the Minny titles were part of their heritage and history....I still don't get into how many titles the Lakers own....it is 16.....but it seems the fans (and ownership) in LA decided after 40 years that these titles were suddenly to be embraced....that is where the heart of the issue lies....
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Driscoll92587. Show Driscoll92587's posts

    Re: Dr Buss on Lakers/Celtics

    As much as I detest Dr. Buss, I have to give credit where credit's due.  Gotta spend money to make money, and he's put down some serious cash to keep the Lakers in contention each year.  And because of that investment he's making more money in the long run due to a product that is continually among the elite. 
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from paulliu. Show paulliu's posts

    Re: Dr Buss on Lakers/Celtics

      Duke,

    Totally agree.  It is simply disengenuous to ignore the Minny titles and then over 50 years later suddenly claim them as your own.  And this is to say nothing about the shabby way LA chose to "honor" the Minny title teams.

    Buss is obviously a great owner but he hasn't covered himself with glory with the tacky way  he has treated the Minny teams.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Duke4. Show Duke4's posts

    Re: Dr Buss on Lakers/Celtics

    Totally agree.....
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from concord27. Show concord27's posts

    Re: Dr Buss on Lakers/Celtics

    Buss was smart in one area in hiring Jerry West.   Mitch Kupchak was a disciple of West's and this has kept the Lakers going. West made some Auerbachian moves along the way. It pains me to say. The Celtics however wrote the book and will continue to lead the way despite the Laker success they will always be Avis.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from FlobusMcNugget. Show FlobusMcNugget's posts

    Re: Dr Buss on Lakers/Celtics

    In Response to Re: Dr Buss on Lakers/Celtics:
    I think that if you keep the team name (Lakers, Dodgers, Braves, Jazz, etc.), the team gets to count all the championships. When you go Sonics to Thunder or Royals to Kings or whatever, I think the team loses the right to claim previous version's championships (conference, division, etc.). Just my 2 cents worth. I do think that the LA Lakers could do a better job bannerwise of honoring the championships and players from the Minneapolis era. But, just because they don't, that doesn't mean they can't count those championships with their own. Best rivalry in sports: Lakers and Celtics. Hope they meet again in the Finals next year!!! Hope the Heat get their comeuppance somewhere in the playoffs well before the Finals.
    Posted by ControllerMod

    I agree with everything you've said. Well put.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from EliasB. Show EliasB's posts

    Re: Dr Buss on Lakers/Celtics

    I have been a Lakers fan since 1990. I have always included the championships won back when they were in Minnesota. It doesn't take long for a new Lakers fan to ask where the name comes from. When I found out I asked how many titles did the Lakers win back then. When I found out they had won 5, it wasn't a question of whether or not to acknowledge them or not.

    Jerry West has always been a Laker. Just because he started with the team when they were in Minnesota doesn't change that one bit.

    Also, I don't remember back in the 90's Chick Hearn or anyone else not acknowleging the 5 championships won in Minnesota. It simply has never been an issue, Duke.




    Cool
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from KB24RULZ. Show KB24RULZ's posts

    Re: Dr Buss on Lakers/Celtics

    Dr Buss, the greatest sports team owner and Hall of Famer, is simply without peer.His attitude to winning and doing whatever it takes to win is what separates him from the rest.

    As for the championships, when Dr Buss bought the Lakers he bought everything that came with it. If I buy a car, I buy the car plus the mileage along with it. Ditto for a sports team purchase. The only people disputing the 16 championships are boston fans. Why? Because deep down they know that soon enough the Lakers will have more championships than them. It pains boston because they have had that record for a long time and never thought they would be caught. History shows in the last 40 years that with free agency, a global NBA, an expanded NBA, the Lakers have been THE premier team in the league.

    Enjoy that record while you can boston because deep down you know the Lake Show will own it and set a new bar! Thank you Dr Buss!!
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Duke4. Show Duke4's posts

    Re: Dr Buss on Lakers/Celtics

    • You're right Elias.....the Lakers do have 16 titles....the issue is the emphasis placed on those Minny titles by LA ownership and fans over the last decade or so of the rivalry........I've watched the Celtics since 1960.......I saw all the Celtic/Laker championship rounds........LA finally won their first title in the early '70's.....then the Bird/Magic rivalry of the '80's when the Lakers finally beat the Celtics....the only point that was being discussed by fans of both teams at the time was the fact that the Lakers finally broke through and beat Boston...but there was no comparing the number of titles each franchise had at the time....both teams went through the '90's without winning a title.....it began as the Lakers got the "three-peat"....in 2002 the Lakers suddenly recognized the Minny titles and hoisted a banner...now the undying chant of Laker fans is....."we are about to catch and pass you"....and there is nothing wrong with that....Celtic fans like to point out that we have won 9 of 12 head to head ....this boils down to the question....if the Minny banner was not raised in 2002 would this discussion be ongoing? There is no disrespecting the Laker franchise or it's history......this started when Laker fans invaded this board and started the whole thing....it would be different if someone went over to the Laker board and started with all the 17-11 BS....hope that makes sense
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from KB24RULZ. Show KB24RULZ's posts

    Re: Dr Buss on Lakers/Celtics

    In Response to Re: Dr Buss on Lakers/Celtics:
    You're right Elias.....the Lakers do have 16 titles....the issue is the emphasis placed on those Minny titles by LA ownership and fans over the last decade or so of the rivalry........I've watched the Celtics since 1960.......I saw all the Celtic/Laker championship rounds........LA finally won their first title in the early '70's.....then the Bird/Magic rivalry of the '80's when the Lakers finally beat the Celtics....the only point that was being discussed by fans of both teams at the time was the fact that the Lakers finally broke through and beat Boston...but there was no comparing the number of titles each franchise had at the time....both teams went through the '90's without winning a title.....it began as the Lakers got the "three-peat"....in 2002 the Lakers suddenly recognized the Minny titles and hoisted a banner...now the undying chant of Laker fans is....."we are about to catch and pass you"....and there is nothing wrong with that....Celtic fans like to point out that we have won 9 of 12 head to head ....this boils down to the question....if the Minny banner was not raised in 2002 would this discussion be ongoing? There is no disrespecting the Laker franchise or it's history......this started when Laker fans invaded this board and started the whole thing....it would be different if someone went over to the Laker board and started with all the 17-11 BS....hope that makes sense
    Posted by Duke4


    You're more than welcome to join the Laker Nation and say whatever you want. However, I suspect that when obtaining a view borne of that widely held by the rest of the basketball world will not only shock but likely doubt your confidence in the celtic organization. For that reason alone, hold onto you're insular view.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from BirdandCowens. Show BirdandCowens's posts

    Re: Dr Buss on Lakers/Celtics

    In Response to Re: Dr Buss on Lakers/Celtics:
    I have been a Lakers fan since 1990. I have always included the championships won back when they were in Minnesota. It doesn't take long for a new Lakers fan to ask where the name comes from. When I found out I asked how many titles did the Lakers win back then. When I found out they had won 5, it wasn't a question of whether or not to acknowledge them or not. Jerry West has always been a Laker. Just because he started with the team when they were in Minnesota doesn't change that one bit. Also, I don't remember back in the 90's Chick Hearn or anyone else not acknowleging the 5 championships won in Minnesota. It simply has never been an issue, Duke.
    Posted by EliasB


    OMG - you call yourself a lakers fan - this from Wikapedia on Jerry West:
    West became the first draft pick ever of the relocated franchise[

    He was NEVER on the team in MN - what a clown!
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from SoCalCeltFan. Show SoCalCeltFan's posts

    Re: Dr Buss on Lakers/Celtics

    In Response to Re: Dr Buss on Lakers/Celtics:
    Buss was smart in one area in hiring Jerry West.   Mitch Kupchak was a disciple of West's and this has kept the Lakers going. West made some Auerbachian moves along the way. It pains me to say. The Celtics however wrote the book and will continue to lead the way despite the Laker success they will always be Avis.
    Posted by concord27

    WRONG! His smartest move was hiring the old Celtic Bill Sharman to run the Lakers. Sharman hired West to be first the analyst on Laker games, promoted him to coach, where West resigned at his press conference and turned the coaching reigns over to Pat Riley. THEN, West, under the Sharman Presidency went on to become a 'genius'.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Re: Dr Buss on Lakers/Celtics

    I think it is pathetic that the team ignored Minnesota for FORTY FREAKING YEARS, and spent decades acting as if the titles from that state in the 50's didn't count...

    Then after they bought Shaq and won 3 in a row, they got to thinking they could actually catch up with Boston if they included those titles, so they threw them up in the Staples Center 40 years too late...

    and Mikan, a guy responsible for the exact same # of 'Laker' championships as Magic, Kareem and Kobe (5) and more than Shaq, Worthy, West and Wilt is STILL WONDERING why his jersey was not retired.. disgusting

    The difference/similarities and reasons between their organization and ours when it comes to why the titles are so close is pretty simple.

    1.) We had Russ and Red, they had coach and front office clowns and despite having 2-3 of the next best players on the court (like we did in 08) LA choked over and over.

    2.) Both teams got lopsided trades. Too bad (Kareem and Pau) were howled about and called jokes and black scars on the league the moment they were announced. Ours (Parish/McHale and KG) were considred fair value at the time

    3.) The all-star future HOF forward LA lucked into (Worthy) helped them win 3 titles in the 80's. The one we got (Bias) DIED. Bias would have landed us at least the '87 championship and depending on how his presence kept the old big 3 healthier, no bad luck achillies (Bird) or foot (McHale) maybe 2-3 more rings.

    4.) Ability to buy Shaq b/c of warm weather Hollywood location vs. Pitino/Duncan fiasco.

    5.) The ref hose job in '10 finals that turned a double digit Boston lead into an LA win with 22 4th quarter free throws and looking the other way when Boston players were repeatedly hacked.

    That pretty much sums up how it got to be such a beatdown and then 40 years later it is really neck and neck


     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Duke4. Show Duke4's posts

    Re: Dr Buss on Lakers/Celtics

    Riley actually took over from Paul Westhead......

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Re: Dr Buss on Lakers/Celtics

    Bias and this years finals are what stings me the most

    If that guy everyone knew would be a superstar never did coke, and these finals were called fairly and not fixed to give LA EVERY advantage possible...

    It would be like 20-14 now, even including the Minny titles Dr. Buss so disrespected
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from BirdandCowens. Show BirdandCowens's posts

    Re: Dr Buss on Lakers/Celtics

    In Response to Re: Dr Buss on Lakers/Celtics:
    I think it is pathetic that the team ignored Minnesota for FORTY FREAKING YEARS, and spent decades acting as if the titles from that state in the 50's didn't count... Then after they bought Shaq and won 3 in a row, they got to thinking they could actually catch up with Boston if they included those titles, so they threw them up in the Staples Center 40 years too late... and Mikan, a guy responsible for the exact same # of 'Laker' championships as Magic, Kareem and Kobe (5) and more than Shaq, Worthy, West and Wilt is STILL WONDERING why his jersey was not retired.. disgusting The difference/similarities and reasons between their organization and ours when it comes to why the titles are so close is pretty simple. 1.) We had Russ and Red, they had coach and front office clowns and despite having 2-3 of the next best players on the court (like we did in 08) LA choked over and over. 2.) Both teams got lopsided trades. Too bad (Kareem and Pau) were howled about and called jokes and black scars on the league the moment they were announced. Ours (Parish/McHale and KG) were considred fair value at the time 3.) The all-star future HOF forward LA lucked into (Worthy) helped them win 3 titles in the 80's. The one we got (Bias) DIED . Bias would have landed us at least the '87 championship and depending on how his presence kept the old big 3 healthier, no bad luck achillies (Bird) or foot (McHale) maybe 2-3 more rings. 4.) Ability to buy Shaq b/c of warm weather Hollywood location vs. Pitino/Duncan fiasco. 5.) The ref hose job in '10 finals that turned a double digit Boston lead into an LA win with 22 4th quarter free throws and looking the other way when Boston players were repeatedly hacked. That pretty much sums up how it got to be such a beatdown and then 40 years later it is really neck and neck
    Posted by rameakap


    100% totally agree, as I have been saying the same thing for years.  Except, of course, for #5.  I respect your opinion, and others, but I can't go there.
    During the Magic era, did you ever hear about the 5 won in MN?  I never did!
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Duke4. Show Duke4's posts

    Re: Dr Buss on Lakers/Celtics

    I do find it interesting that Laker fans are absolutely giddy at the thought of actually catching the Celtics in overall titles despite 10 more finals appearances....they even use the number of finals appearances as evidence of their superiority (while not taking into account the relative strength of conference that historically favors the East)....yet when we bring up our superiority head to head....the response is...."yeah, well that was a long time ago".....or, no response at all.....face it guys....if you are going to claim the titles won almost a decade before our team won their first one.....then you must look at the entire history of the franchises....you can't have it both ways....and while an .809 winning percentage trumps your .516......a 9-3 record head to head absolutely seals the deal as far as overall greatness...and I am not being sarcastic....The Lakers are a great franchise....I just think Boston remains #1....go outside of both LA and Boston...the younger fans will support LA....the older fans will support Boston....
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Duke4. Show Duke4's posts

    Re: Dr Buss on Lakers/Celtics

    A John Hollinger column stating his opinion?.....and an ESPN Poll?......trumps history.....?  Umm....NO

    .809 vs .516 in the Finals

    9 Wins head to head vs 3 wins head to head

    Those aren't opinions.....those are facts!!

    Never mind focusing on timeframes (first 30 years vs last 30).....if you are comparing titles......the entire timeframe must be considered....now, if you include the "modern era" only (shot clock)...the Lakers forfeit 5 titles....but I am not separating the eras....you get to keep all of your titles....you are still #2 and head to head it's a mismatch!!
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from KB24RULZ. Show KB24RULZ's posts

    Re: Dr Buss on Lakers/Celtics

    Best you count the old 9 team league or as you rightly state, it's a mis-match. Lakers have more championships (by far) and win the head to head-yip a mis-match.

    Such is life!
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from BirdandCowens. Show BirdandCowens's posts

    Re: Dr Buss on Lakers/Celtics

    So now we don't even count the ones where we beat the lakers in the 60's?  Wow, such is NOT life!
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Duke4. Show Duke4's posts

    Re: Dr Buss on Lakers/Celtics

    some perspective here....the greatest team winner in sports.....the NY Yankees....27 titles and no one close....so how have they done lately? ...well, in the last 47 years ('63-09) they have 7 titles.....in the last 7 years the BoSox have 2....see how easy it is to distort history?
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from RUWorthy. Show RUWorthy's posts

    Re: Dr Buss on Lakers/Celtics

    Boston is fortunate to have had Bill Russell otherwise their 9-3 mark against us would look incredibly different. Russell was such a genius for basketball and a winner that it's almost unfair to compare eras. But we can't because it happened. 

    I do think it's unfair to call the West a weaker conference there are good teams out there and have always been. Dallas in the late 80's appeared to be a great team and pushed us to the limit in 1988. As did Utah in the same year. But the Lakers did own the West in the 80's and to a lesser extent the 00's. Injury and infighting cost us in 1981 and a freak shot in '86. 

    The East has had strong teams but when you look at recent times there has been only one powerhouse team at any one time. Yes there are strong teams but only one great side. Really, there is no way that Orlando makes the finals in '09 if Garnett is healthy. Boston play the Lakers in the finals again if KG doesn't go down.

    Boston has been the strongest team in the East for the last 3 years. You had the Chicago era where nobody could touch them. Before that you had the Pistons who were the best for 3 years. I'm counting 1987 as one of their years. They were beaten somehow by the Celtics, who really shouldn't have made the finals in '87. They got there because of Larry Bird. He was just such a freak. 

    I think the early 80's in the East belonged to the Sixers. From '81 though '83. They should never have lost in '81 to Boston. But I'd say it was the Larry factor at play again. Although how did Boston lose the mojo and allow the Sixers to get to the finals in '82 and '83? When on paper the Celtics were another year older and wiser? '82 the Sixers learned how to play you guys. Then again in '83 you had your turn for infighting and a mutiny against Fitch.

    '07 and '08 were perhaps a transition period for the East, But perhaps those two years although the Pistons didn't get into the Finals they were the dominant team. The team to beat. '07 They lose to the Cavs. '08 they lose in the Finals to Boston. So that's dominant years in 05 and 06, perhaps a trip back in '07 and losing to the NBA champs in '08.

    Teams in the East seem to have 4 year windows of late. That is if your team doesn't have Michael Jordan in it. Yes the East is strong but no stronger than the West. I think the Media have it in their heads that the East is stronger. And therefore most of us believe it to be stronger.

    And yes Dr Buss is the best because he's aggressive. And as long as the Lakers have aggressive owners we'll be near the top the West each year. But this doesn't excuse his lack of respect for the Minneapolis years. But then people in some cases don't have a respect for what has gone before them. And this just doesn't apply to Basketball. 




     
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