Drafting since 1980

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Duke4. Show Duke4's posts

    Drafting since 1980

    There was a time when I really got excited about the NBA draft.....I think I lost interest around 10 years ago....based on the results....I took a look at some of the players that we drafted who went on to become pretty good NBA players....

    2007 Jeff Green (traded now back in Boston)
    2006 Randy Foye (traded)
    2004 Al Jefferson (traded for KG)
    2001 Joe Johnson (traded)
    1998 Paul Pierce (lifetime Celtic and future HOF....the last great pick)
    1997 Chauncey Billups (traded)
    1996 Antoine Walker (traded)
    1991 Rick Fox (lost to free agency)
    1990 Dee Brown (traded)
    1988 Brian Shaw (traded)
    1987 Reggie Lewis (all star....deceased)
    1986 Len Bias (deceased...never played an NBA game)
    1981 Danny Ainge (traded...now our GM)
    1980 Kevin McHale (NBA HOF)

    so, looking back over the last 30+ years.....

    McHale and Pierce were home runs....

    Bias and Lewis...what might've been...

    Big Al got us KG...

    Joe Johnson and Chauncy Billups....great talents....bad trades

    Antoine Walker...what might've been if he weren't a head case

    Danny Ainge...I hated to see him go...

    Now we have Johnson and Moore....and Green is back....I'm not sure what to expect...but I am a little skeptical based on our history... 
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Red-16Russ-11. Show Red-16Russ-11's posts

    Re: Drafting since 1980

    You forgot Michael Smith, Joe Forte, Ron Mercer, Charles Bradley, Darren Tillis and Greg Kite.

    Also, Billups, Pierce and Johnson ( I think) were all drafted by some guy named Pitino....................
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Duke4. Show Duke4's posts

    Re: Drafting since 1980

    yes Red, I skipped over those guys since they never panned out as players.....I count 7-8 picks at best over this timeframe....that is pretty sad....
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Number6Fan. Show Number6Fan's posts

    Re: Drafting since 1980

    Can you do the same for any (all) other teams and find one that did significantly better in that time frame?

    It's a crapshoot for eveyone -- and sometimes you strike gold, and sometimes you don't.   Also, look bey6ond the No. 1 spot.  Your draft record depends a lot on what you do the second and third rounds (for instance, Gomes, TA, BBD, Rondo, Perk . . .)

    cheers --
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from TheDUDDER. Show TheDUDDER's posts

    Re: Drafting since 1980

    In Response to Re: Drafting since 1980:
    Can you do the same for any (all) other teams and find one that did significantly better in that time frame? It's a crapshoot for eveyone -- and sometimes you strike gold, and sometimes you don't.   Also, look bey6ond the No. 1 spot.  Your draft record depends a lot on what you do the second and third rounds (for instance, Gomes, TA, BBD, Rondo, Perk . . .) cheers --
    Posted by Number6Fan


    Tony Allen, Rondo, and Perk were first round picks and Rondo was not drafted by the Celtics......
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Red-16Russ-11. Show Red-16Russ-11's posts

    Re: Drafting since 1980

    In Response to Re: Drafting since 1980:
    In Response to Re: Drafting since 1980 : Tony Allen, Rondo, and Perk were first round picks and Rondo was not drafted by the Celtics......
    Posted by TheDUDDER



    So, we should not count JJJ's production this year - is that what you're saying?
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Duke4. Show Duke4's posts

    Re: Drafting since 1980

    I took a very quick look at the Lakers since 1980.....they also have drafted two Hall of Famers in that time frame..... Magic Johnson (actually 1979) and James Worthy....as I said, I just skimmed the page...may have missed someone...
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from TheDUDDER. Show TheDUDDER's posts

    Re: Drafting since 1980

    In Response to Re: Drafting since 1980:
    I took a very quick look at the Lakers since 1980.....they also have drafted two Hall of Famers in that timeframe Magic Johnson (actuall 1979) and James Worthy....as I said I just skimmed the page...may have missed someone...
    Posted by Duke4


    If you are good and or muddle in the middle you don't have access to the good draft picks, then when you do have access to the good players and make stupid mistakes, you generally end up with very few good players (if you are drafting 9th and you pick Montross or 11th and you select Moiso - and maybe they were not strong drafts in general then you get what you pay for).

    Recently they have had a couple of chances to get top players in the draft and opted to trade for Telfair, drafted Green and traded it for Ray Allen...... also, neither the Ray Allen nor KG deals would have been done without the expiring contracts of Theo Ratliff and Wally S....

    Danny has left many many players on the board that have turned out to be better than the players he drafted but when you are drafting somewhere around 23rd every year you eventually get the 23rd best team in the league.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Duke4. Show Duke4's posts

    Re: Drafting since 1980

    good thinking Dudder...it kind of has a way of evening out usually doesn't it?...then again....who can account for two picks passing away..?  ..I mean, that is pretty much unheard of right..?   ...and we are talking about a pick (Len Bias) that had everyone (media, coaches, etc) predicting stardom for.....then Reggie Lewis, who was a local favorite and had just become an all star...and he passes as well...who could've ever predicted a scenario like that...?  ....talk about setting a franchise back....these guys were drafted back to back ('86 & '87)....unbelievable..!
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from BoylestonBB. Show BoylestonBB's posts

    Re: Drafting since 1980

    I still think Dee Brown goes down as an under rated pick when you consider what else was on offer.  The way he helped the team in 90-91 and 91-92 gave me plenty of joy in the last few years of the real Big 3.  He and Reggie Lewis had the old guys and old gym buzzing during that time.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from BoylestonBB. Show BoylestonBB's posts

    Re: Drafting since 1980

    In Response to Re: Drafting since 1980:
    good thinking Dudder...it kind of has a way of evening out usually doesn't it?...then again....who can account for two picks passing away..?  ..I mean, that is pretty much unheard of right..?   ...and we are talking about a pick (Len Bias) that had everyone (media, coaches, etc) predicting stardom for.....then Reggie Lewis, who was a local favorite and had just become an all star...and he passes as well...who could've ever predicted a scenario like that...?  ....talk about setting a franchise back....these guys were drafted back to back ('86 & '87)....unbelievable..!
    Posted by Duke4


    In the years 1993 – 1997 I used to say, take the best 2 players off your team and see how you fare (reference Bias and Lewis).  That is the reality the Cs lived in.  Sad in every way.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from RUWorthy. Show RUWorthy's posts

    Re: Drafting since 1980

    Lewis I can agree with. Bias on the other hand is an unknown. If he was a habitual user he'd have been a liability on and off the court.

    Lewis appeared to be a Paul Pierce type of player. I don't know who else in Boston to compare him with. A very good player, but a guy who needed a couple of other good players around him. Although the NBA didn't get to see what he was capable of leading a team on his own.

    When it comes to Bias and Lewis. Guys I really think it's more bad management on Bostons part and not really bad luck. Manchester United lost several star players, including the best player in the world with Duncan Armstrong (look him up he was an absolute superstar in the making and only 21 years old!). They went on to win the FA cup 5 years later, Premiership the year after and in 67/68won the European Cup. Yes they didn't have a draft system in English football but they had good management.

    When you look at the guys lost they more than compare with Bias and Lewis. In fact in sports terms I honestly think they were better players in their sports than Bias and Lewis. It would be as if Boston had Michael Jordan and he died, that's how highly Duncan Edwards is rated.

    The Ages of the guys is tragic.

    Duncan Edwards aged 21 England international and arguably the BEST player in world football at that time.
    Roger Bryneaged aged 28 England international
    Billy Whelen aged 22 Ireland international
    Tommy Taylor aged 26 England international
    David Pegg aged 22 England international
    Mark Jones aged 24 England international
    Eddie Coleman aged 21 uncapped
    Geoff Bent aged 25 uncapped

    Not only did Manchester United lose the heart of it team the England team lost it's most talented young players.

    I really believe that Bostons management was appalling from 86 until Ainge took over. It's almost as if they believe success would come their way because they're the Boston Celtics and will always be the number one team. I don't think that Red would have seen things that way. You need to be pro-active in managing a team, Matt Busby for Man Utd was and built a champion team in under 10 years after losing the best players of a generation.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from PHX85014. Show PHX85014's posts

    Re: Drafting since 1980

    DANNY AINGE HAS DRAFTED CELTICS BACK TO CHAMPIONSHIP CONTENDER STATUS !

    AINGE CONTINUES TO GATHER ASSETS...

    THE VISION REMAINS IN VIEW

    THE CELTICS ARE RIGHT THERE ! TOP TIER CHAMPIONSHIP CONTENDERS WITH THE ROSTER THEY HAVE RIGHT NOW...

    COME OPENING DAY, THE CELTICS WILL ONCE AGAIN BE ONE OF THE TOP 5 MOST EXCITING NBA TEAMS TO WATCH......THE LOCKOUT AND STRIKE SUCKED !

    BRING ON THE GAMES !

    CELTICS 57-9 !

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from wfdog. Show wfdog's posts

    Re: Drafting since 1980

    Agree with the poor management analysis because even our beloved Red fell in love with Joe Forte, thought Michael Smith was the next Larry Bird, and held onto the original 'Big 3' too long long before Gavitt & Pitino showed-up. But have to disagree on the Bias analogy and what his impact would have been...


    "There have been two opposing players who have really stood out: Michael Jordan and Len Bias. Len was an amazing athlete with great competitiveness. My feeling is that he would have been one of the top players in the NBA. He created things. People associate the term `playmaking' with point guards. But I consider a playmaker as someone who can do things others can't, the way Jordan did. Bias was like that. He could invent ways to score, and there was nothing you could do about it. No matter how you defended him, he could make a play."
    -Coach M. Krzyewski

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from BoylestonBB. Show BoylestonBB's posts

    Re: Drafting since 1980

    In Response to Re: Drafting since 1980:
    Agree with the poor management analysis because even our beloved Red fell in love with Joe Forte, thought Michael Smith was the next Larry Bird, and held onto the original 'Big 3' too long long before Gavitt & Pitino showed-up. But have to disagree on the Bias analogy and what his impact would have been...Posted by wfdog


    I for one was a little cautious on how good Bias would have been until I read what those experts who saw him say.  Your quote reflects the opinions of many.  Anyway enough of the past and onto the exciting future.  Bring on 2011-2012

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Number6Fan. Show Number6Fan's posts

    Re: Drafting since 1980

    In Response to Re: Drafting since 1980:
    Lewis I can agree with. Bias on the other hand is an unknown. If he was a habitual user he'd have been a liability on and off the court. Lewis appeared to be a Paul Pierce type of player. I don't know who else in Boston to compare him with. A very good player, but a guy who needed a couple of other good players around him. Although the NBA didn't get to see what he was capable of leading a team on his own. When it comes to Bias and Lewis. Guys I really think it's more bad management on Bostons part and not really bad luck. Manchester United lost several star players, including the best player in the world with Duncan Armstrong (look him up he was an absolute superstar in the making and only 21 years old!). They went on to win the FA cup 5 years later, Premiership the year after and in 67/68won the European Cup. Yes they didn't have a draft system in English football but they had good management. When you look at the guys lost they more than compare with Bias and Lewis. In fact in sports terms I honestly think they were better players in their sports than Bias and Lewis. It would be as if Boston had Michael Jordan and he died, that's how highly Duncan Edwards is rated. The Ages of the guys is tragic. Duncan Edwards aged 21 England international and arguably the BEST player in world football at that time. Roger Bryneaged aged 28 England international Billy Whelen aged 22 Ireland international Tommy Taylor aged 26 England international David Pegg aged 22 England international Mark Jones aged 24 England international Eddie Coleman aged 21 uncapped Geoff Bent aged 25 uncapped Not only did Manchester United lose the heart of it team the England team lost it's most talented young players. I really believe that Bostons management was appalling from 86 until Ainge took over. It's almost as if they believe success would come their way because they're the Boston Celtics and will always be the number one team. I don't think that Red would have seen things that way. You need to be pro-active in managing a team, Matt Busby for Man Utd was and built a champion team in under 10 years after losing the best players of a generation.
    Posted by RUWorthy


    Have to agree with you completely. In early '90s Celts and Lakers were in same boat -- teams of aging, overpaid, broken down stars.  Within a year, people were talking about the "surprising LA Lakers" and in a couple of more they were champions.  All the time the Celts were stumbling around in the dark (although the Lewis debacle was tragic).  Jerry West was simply the best GM in basketball.

    cheers --
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Duke4. Show Duke4's posts

    Re: Drafting since 1980

    I have to go along with most of the opinions....nice job guys & gals.....to address Red...no, I am really looking forward to seeing what JJJ can bring...my point in this post was twofold....the fact that we didn't get a great deal of help over the last 30+ years of drafting...and the fact that, with the exception of Perk, Rondo and Baby....how many of our young players are given the chance to contribute under Doc's watch....?

    Danny has definitely brought in some talent and with not all being number one picks.....guys like Gomes and Baby, along with Allen have become pretty good players....I just wish we could increase the rotation to include the kids more.....just my opinion....I am looking forward to this season....can Danny work some more magic..?  we'll see.....
     
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