Earth to Rondo!!!

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from greenkillme. Show greenkillme's posts

    Re: Earth to Rondo!!!

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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Earth to Rondo!!! : What do I want him to do?  Um... be like a player and shoot the ball......  one of the other teams records is 2 games worse than the Cs, the other teams don't have 4 hall of fame players to start with their point guard. Not sure if you have noticed but pass first is a code word for completely unable to participate in the offense because they are the worst shooter in the league.  Not sure if you noticed but the shoot first point guards are generally regarded as the best point guards in the league.... probably because they are an option in the offense and have the ability to take over a game given that they are not lucky enough to play with hall of famers of every other position...... For the 10millionth time, give me any number of other point guards a preseason and Doc as the coach and the Cs are no worse off and in a lot of cases better.  Brooks goes off for 24 and 9 and his team is missing its two best players and they beat the Cs....  Rondo step up?  Nope.  Just one minor example. There is not even a remote possibility that the Cs would be no worse off with Arron Brooks as the starting point guard.  They may give up a bit more but they would play 5 against 5 instead of 4 against 5 and everyone on the team would be an option and as was said about a dozen times in yesterday's game, nobody would be ignoring Brooks - he would be draining 3s, making jumpers from everywhere, and making 85% of his freebies - he would not be afraid to go to the rim, and so on and so forth... but of course because the Cs are winning nobody can even imagine that someone that does not currently wear green could make them better. Sorry for being the objective person in the group. Pierce was the hot man and the ball got to him.... and Rondo was being outplayed by a 35 year old and a complete non-factor.  When Carlos Boozer is the hot guy does Rose avoid shooting, avoid going to the hoop, avoid participating in the offense?  When Dwight Howard and Hedo are hot does Jameer Nelson run and hide in the corner choosing not to participate? Just at least give it some sort of minor thought.......  tomorrow night they will see 2 point guards who if flipped for Rondo who leave the Cs no worse off and they both play for the same team. But of course that is not possible because Rondo averages a dozen points (on the 17th lowest scoring team in the league) and averages a dozen assists - give either one of the guys we'll see tomorrow night 4 hall of famers and the Cs are no worse off..... It is really good to talk about Rondo pounding the ball into the front court as the shot clock is running and he is causing 3 second violations when they win but when they are handily beaten it is completely ignored........  hhhmmmm....
    Posted by TheDUDDER[/QUOTE]

    "Sorry for being the objective person in the group."

    Don't apologize. No one thinks you are objective.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from greenkillme. Show greenkillme's posts

    Re: Earth to Rondo!!!

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    [QUOTE]In Response to Earth to Rondo!!! : It is a blessing when he is not shooting, not a problem. He is not hurt..... he has done nothing the last week? Last 4 losses - Rose, Brooks, Wall, Nash.....  hhmmmmm.... there are actually other players on the other teams - right?  It is not the globetrotters against the Washington Generals every night, there is no script, the outcome is not predetermined.  There are however players that are just as good if not a lot better that happened to be very bad match ups for Rondo.....I seemed to recall hearing yesterday that Rondo should not be allowing Fisher to get to the rim (wow - first team all-defense), one of the oldest most average point guards in the league..... So as usual when Rondo scores 7, has 6 assists, and 7 turnovers like he did against Nash it is he is hurt or it is the refs.....just like everything else in life, there are external forces and a lot of times it is simply the other player. Brooks had 24 and 9 against Rondo and Houston was missing Kevin Martin - did Rondo step up and take over the game (like a star might)?  Nope, got his assists and was basically a non-factor. Did Rose carry the Bulls to victory without Noah?  Yes. Did Wall hit the game winning shot?  Can you ever envision Rondo hitting a game winning shot? Nash is Nash, enough said. When Stockton averaged over 14 assists per game in consecutive years he also averaged 17 ppg, shooting over 50% from the field (oh and they weren't all layups), over 40% from 3 and over 80% from the line. Perspective can be a bummer.
    Posted by TheDUDDER[/QUOTE]

    "Did Wall hit the game winning shot?  Can you ever envision Rondo hitting a game winning shot?"

    Wall threw up a prayer in desperation and it went in off the window. Not a remarkable play at all. Rondo totally outplayed him in that game despite your constant claims he did not.

    If Rondo took as many shots a game as Wall he would shoot a higher percentage and would make more end of the game winning shots. Who are you trying to kid anyway?

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from aciemvp. Show aciemvp's posts

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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Earth to Rondo!!! : This has been obvious for some time. The teams that do the best against the Celtics play him honestly and don't sag. The teams that sag get cut to pieces. Acie, Puddinhead and Duddud take note again...Rondo is different than your jump shooting model. He cut LA to pieces in the fourth quarter.
    Posted by gtown07[/QUOTE]

    serious?  were you watching game 3-7 vs. LAL in the finals last year?

    the congestion in the lane was worse than in the arteries of those dropping from heart attacks.

    what you are forgetting is that the EFFORT LEVEL, mostly on the part of the LAKERS was drastically different last night vs. any game in the playoffs.  and to some degree, the EFFORT LEVEL of ANY TEAM in ANY REGULAR SEASON GAME is a lot lower than in the playoffs, when arguably, they really start trying every second of every game.

    that is the back drop for when the rondo sag-off became a big problem against the lakers.  teams WERE NOT sagging off of rondo until he went stone cold from the field and line in the playoffs up until game 2 of the lakers series.

    hence, the valid need for rondo to be a consistent outside scoring THREAT (note, i did not say he should be tossing in 20 a night- your favorite weakling counter arguement to rondo being an incomplete player), but he should be a THREAT to score such that teams do not sag off of him.

    trust me, if he IS a THREAT then the opportunity opens up for him to slice fisher, blake, nash, and almost everyone else to ribbons on dribble drive havoc.  it will result in more layups for KG, less cutting for ray to get open because as soon as that defense contracts in to the lane to counter rondo's dribble drive havoc, then ray and paul are wide open like never before.

    so, as you see, if you want to join reality, it is much better to not have teams sag off of rondo come playoff time.  we will die a brutal death just as before.  think of it- rondo's quickness vs. fisher or blake on a dribble drive!!  i'm drooling at the chops thinking of it and this shoudl be what rondo aspires to do, not sit still and throw line drive passes when the PASSING LANES WON"T BE THERE IN THE PLAYOFFS.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from aciemvp. Show aciemvp's posts

    Re: Earth to Rondo!!!

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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Earth to Rondo!!! : I don't think they are dumb but they aren't very realistic and they do smack of being ungrateful. You and I are so lucky to be Celtics fans and we are doubly lucky to have a player as phenomenal to watch as Rondo. He sliced the Lakers to pieces in the 4th quarter yesterday in a way that no other point guard in the league could do. The Celtics were making the shots so that helps him look good just like the other night when he was dishing to wide open C's and they were missing wide open shots so he looked average.
    Posted by gtown07[/QUOTE]

    i guess we have different standrards.  you are happy with status quo, if rondo never gets better one bit by your statement.

    i on the other hand think he has a lot of improvement to do to be a great player, and at the same time honestly believe he has the tools to BE that great, once in two generations freak of nature point guard with a set of tools that nobody could be able to de-fuse.  perennial mvp candidate. 

    so i think there is improvement to be had.  and let's face it, for us to remain relevant it's rondo who has to get much better.  it's not like KG, ray or paul are going to step it up, they are peaked out and declining, despite their great performances this year.  the biggest upside is inarguably rondo.

    and given his hand eye coordination abilities that i see, i cannot find a just reason why he is not a better shooter = consistent scoring threat = complete player = devastation machine that teams fear going up against, as opposed to the sometimes 'head in the game' rondo that we are seeing this year.

    the kid needs his head into the game and his @ss at the gym firing 500 free throws a day.  if he did 500-1000 freebies a day do you really think he'd still stink from the line worse than ever by the %ages?  no, he wouldn't.  the demons would be conquered, but alas, the work has not been done.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from aciemvp. Show aciemvp's posts

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    [QUOTE]Am I confused????  Did we win the game yesterday?  he is holding the ball...what do you want him to do?  Rondo is not the first option so he is waiting for the plays to develop.  Rondo took shots in the first half, but did make all of them.  I dont get it, we win and Rondo still can do any good.  Who cares if he had one assist in the first half? You cant be on all game long.  You guys act like other teams arent making adjustments to stop the Celtics.  God forbid any otherplaying has low stats to start and come on in the second half and we win....the world will be coming to an end.  Rondo called all the right plays all game long wether he directly or indirectly made a pass that lead to a basket.  pierce was the hot man and the ball got to him at the right moments for him to score.  Should we have been up by 20 at the half? Should Rondo have had a triple double by the end of the first quarter? Dudder...all those other guards, what are their teams' records? Its a shame folks have to nitpick like little biaaatches when we win.  If Rondo is so bad then some of you posters should start routing for another team where the point guard shots first. 
    Posted by jdm894g[/QUOTE]

    let us ask a few questions:

    should an "all star" talent like rondo be able to keep defenses honest w/ a jumper threat night to night?

    if above answer is "yes" then fisher has to guard rondo and no amount of bullying or flopping would keep fisher on the floor for more than 20 minutes.

    then out comes blake, who might last another 15 minutes or if EITHER one stays on the floor vs. rondo they will be getting herky jerked on dribble drives for easy layin's and toss outs vs. the CURRENT BRAND OF TOSS OUT that has a defensive man often times waiting for that very pass.

    if rondo is a dribble drive to pass or score threat, and he can be if he can keep a guy close to him if he posesses a jumper then no team should be able to deal with the celtics.  we should win 65 to 70 games, many of them with frightening ease.

    right now we have an ok rondo who is statistically and actually sub par to ineffective for stretches of games when he gives away his advantages over slow pokes and fogies due to passivity, fear of getting fouled and shooting freebies and/or lack of adequate jumper to keep defenses honest = enable him TO dribble-drive.

    remembah tiny archibald?  he would put his head down and get slaughtered in the lane or effectively dish when the team needed it.  same with the kenny anderson that showed up for about a season and a half in green actually to play ball.  and other point guards.  rondo DOES NOT transcend the game to the point where he doesn't have to do the same things that GREAT point guards have historically all done in order to be great!!

    it's just about that simple.

    plug in a consistent dribble drive for rondo and slobs like fisher, blake dont' even belong in the same building on that matchup and either give away the store and/or foul themselves out and make the lakers strained in the playmaking area. 

    and there goes the lakers chances right there before you ever get down to gasol/kg and pierce/ray/kobe.  no matter how great kobe is, and he is great, he cannot function as point guard and scorer AND have to play defense on ray or paul.  he cannot possibly do that at his age, maybe possibly ever.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from BaileyPowe. Show BaileyPowe's posts

    Re: Earth to Rondo!!!

    he said he wants to be the best, acie. just let him continue to grow. we can be certain that he listens to big3 and they're pushing him to improve his game, not telling him he's tops. he's not yet 25 years old. as only a once in two generations freak of nature point guard can, he'll keep improving.  
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from concord27. Show concord27's posts

    Re: Earth to Rondo!!!

    Rondo had me worried the two previous games.  After the second half he went into overdrive and blew the Lakers off the court.  His brief respite and return to form only keeps me more excited as to what this kid will be before he is through.

    The Lakers were trying their hardest and the Celtics just went into another gear. Anyone who thinks the Lakers were not trying is nuts. They gave up at the end because they could not compete.  It showed us the Celtics are as good as we hoped they were.  I expect the next two weeks will be very challenging for them but we know what they can do.  The Lakers know it even better.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from LloydDobler. Show LloydDobler's posts

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    I kept reading the responses waiting for somebody to say April Fool's.

    Seriously? Ten points, 5-of-9 from the field, 16 assists in a win at LAL and we're not happy?
     
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from BiasLewis. Show BiasLewis's posts

    Re: Earth to Rondo!!!

    Just be glad Rondo is playing with the 4 HOFs or it would be worse.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from OneOnOne. Show OneOnOne's posts

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    In Response to Re: Earth to Rondo!!!:
    [QUOTE]Just be glad Rondo is playing with the 4 HOFs or it would be worse.
    Posted by BiasLewis[/QUOTE]

    Is that you Dudder?
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Re: Earth to Rondo!!!

    When Bird was the same age as Rondo NOW it was November of 1981
     
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    Parish - July 1978
     
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    Dennis Johnson - August of 1979
     
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    Ray Allen - June 2000
     
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    Shaq - Feb 1997
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

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    Rondo's got the same # of rings as Bird and DJ and 1 more than Parish, Shaq, KG, Paul and Ray at his age

    all of those guys had 5-6 more of their best seasons AFTER age 25
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from puddinpuddin. Show puddinpuddin's posts

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    [QUOTE]I kept reading the responses waiting for somebody to say April Fool's. Seriously? Ten points, 5-of-9 from the field, 16 assists in a win at LAL and we're not happy?  
    Posted by LloydDobler[/QUOTE]

    Our own high maintenance PG played the first half of the biggest game of the season in a catatonic state and had to be carried by his HOF teammates until he got over his fright, regained his composure and played some basketball.

    The same sort of fearless leadership, effort and determination we saw in his triumphant tour de force TEAM USA participation this past year.

    He certainly gets my vote for AS this year... and team MVP too!

    OKAY, Lloyd..... APRIL FOOLS!

    Alls well that ends well!

    Just sayin'!

    Pud
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from gtown07. Show gtown07's posts

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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Earth to Rondo!!! : i guess we have different standrards.  you are happy with status quo, if rondo never gets better one bit by your statement. i on the other hand think he has a lot of improvement to do to be a great player, and at the same time honestly believe he has the tools to BE that great, once in two generations freak of nature point guard with a set of tools that nobody could be able to de-fuse.  perennial mvp candidate.  so i think there is improvement to be had.  and let's face it, for us to remain relevant it's rondo who has to get much better.  it's not like KG, ray or paul are going to step it up, they are peaked out and declining, despite their great performances this year.  the biggest upside is inarguably rondo. and given his hand eye coordination abilities that i see, i cannot find a just reason why he is not a better shooter = consistent scoring threat = complete player = devastation machine that teams fear going up against, as opposed to the sometimes 'head in the game' rondo that we are seeing this year. the kid needs his head into the game and his @ss at the gym firing 500 free throws a day.  if he did 500-1000 freebies a day do you really think he'd still stink from the line worse than ever by the %ages?  no, he wouldn't.  the demons would be conquered, but alas, the work has not been done.
    Posted by aciemvp[/QUOTE]

    You are right we have different standards.  I'm not a former high school point guard with some sort of fantasy that I know better than a professional NBA guard and coach.

    My cup is half full. I've been around fans like you my whole life. "Yaz is a bum", "Havlicek is a gunner", "Pierce is a fumble fingers"...I've heard it all  before. There are people who thrive on the criticism of their team to the point that they try to make a cause out of it. I  have often wondered it they actually got any enjoyment out of it. You have expressed that you are frustrated. Why is that fun for you. Maybe you shouldn't watch anymore.

    In psychology they try a therapy for depression where the person writes 5 things every day that they should be happy about. Why don't you try that with Rondo and maybe you will get over it.

    By the way the capitalization and coloring in reply doesn't advance your argument. It detracts from it. Makes me think you are shouting. I know when they begin to shout that they don't really have anything in reply worth considering.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from futbal. Show futbal's posts

    Re: Earth to Rondo!!!

    Rondo had a bad first half and a good second half; that happens a lot in basketball as in any job --- performance varies. The only thing about Rondo's bad first half that I criticized was his lack of defensive intensity. It's one thing to come out a little slow off the block offensively, but defense is always about intent and intensity and Rondo allowed a blow by by Fisher that was embarassing. But in the second half Rondo showed why he's in the conversation for best point guard in the game; certainly top 5 today...

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from gtown07. Show gtown07's posts

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    In Response to Re: Earth to Rondo!!!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Earth to Rondo!!! : It is a blessing when he is not shooting, not a problem. He is not hurt..... he has done nothing the last week? Last 4 losses - Rose, Brooks, Wall, Nash.....  hhmmmmm.... there are actually other players on the other teams - right?  It is not the globetrotters against the Washington Generals every night, there is no script, the outcome is not predetermined.  There are however players that are just as good if not a lot better that happened to be very bad match ups for Rondo.....I seemed to recall hearing yesterday that Rondo should not be allowing Fisher to get to the rim (wow - first team all-defense), one of the oldest most average point guards in the league..... So as usual when Rondo scores 7, has 6 assists, and 7 turnovers like he did against Nash it is he is hurt or it is the refs.....just like everything else in life, there are external forces and a lot of times it is simply the other player. Brooks had 24 and 9 against Rondo and Houston was missing Kevin Martin - did Rondo step up and take over the game (like a star might)?  Nope, got his assists and was basically a non-factor. Did Rose carry the Bulls to victory without Noah?  Yes. Did Wall hit the game winning shot?  Can you ever envision Rondo hitting a game winning shot? Nash is Nash, enough said. When Stockton averaged over 14 assists per game in consecutive years he also averaged 17 ppg, shooting over 50% from the field (oh and they weren't all layups), over 40% from 3 and over 80% from the line. Perspective can be a bummer.
    Posted by TheDUDDER[/QUOTE]

    "It is a blessing when he is not shooting, not a problem"

    That is intelligent but not for the reasons you would argue. We don't need him to shoot more. I have no doubt that he could be a 20 pt a night average player if he took twenty shots a game. But we don't want or need that.

    The reason it is a blessing is because the Celtics play team ball.  No one is averaging twenty a game. The team is shooting over 50% from the field. The number of foul shots they are taking is way down and that is good too because it means they are shooting from wide open positions.

    I don't think there is another point guard in the league who would lead the Celtics to the fabulous offense they have right now. It is very ridiclous to complain about Rondo when the evidence is just watching what is happening. In the fourth quarter of the LA game he was orchestrating the entire offense and the destroyed LA. He was telling Pierce and Allen and Garnett and Baby where to go and we were getting layups and wide open shots. How ridiculous are you to demean that? Very.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from gtown07. Show gtown07's posts

    Re: Earth to Rondo!!!

    In Response to Re: Earth to Rondo!!!:
    [QUOTE]he said he wants to be the best, acie. just let him continue to grow. we can be certain that he listens to big3 and they're pushing him to improve his game, not telling him he's tops. he's not yet 25 years old. as only a once in two generations freak of nature point guard can, he'll keep improving.  
    Posted by BaileyPowe[/QUOTE]

    Absolutely. The only other rookie player who got me as excited to watch as Rondo is Bird. They are both totally uniques and "freak of nature" players.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from BaileyPowe. Show BaileyPowe's posts

    Re: Earth to Rondo!!!

    gtown, i lifted that description of rondo from an acie post above. he knows what we're talking about.

    i wonder about celtics fans reluctance to embrace rondo. folks here were so quick to pounce on him after sunday's first half. no patience. i've assumed that's the negative trickle of dud, puddinbag and acie. but i went elsewhere for a game on thread and those knowledgeable fans were doing much the same thing. i am aware of the skeptical new englander stereotype you touched on, so maybe that's a part of it. this much i'm certain of: rondo has a decent enough chance to reach his third finals in four seasons come june. there are no pgs in today's nba i'd rather have running this celtics team.  
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from puddinpuddin. Show puddinpuddin's posts

    Re: Earth to Rondo!!!

    In Response to Re: Earth to Rondo!!!:
    [QUOTE]Rondo had a bad first half and a good second half; that happens a lot in basketball as in any job --- performance varies. The only thing about Rondo's bad first half that I criticized was his lack of defensive intensity. It's one thing to come out a little slow off the block offensively, but defense is always about intent and intensity and Rondo allowed a blow by by Fisher that was embarassing. But in the second half Rondo showed why he's in the conversation for best point guard in the game; certainly top 5 today...
    Posted by futbal[/QUOTE]

    Rondo would stop all discussion about his elite status if he simply had the sack to show up and play both halves... like his life depended on it.

    For 9 mill a year, we get a half time player.

    Pud
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from gtown07. Show gtown07's posts

    Re: Earth to Rondo!!!

    In Response to Re: Earth to Rondo!!!:
    [QUOTE]gtown, i lifted that description of rondo from an acie post above. he knows what we're talking about. i wonder about celtics fans reluctance to embrace rondo. folks here were so quick to pounce on him after sunday's first half. no patience. i've assumed that's the negative trickle of dud, puddinbag and acie. but i went elsewhere for a game on thread and those knowledgeable fans were doing much the same thing. i am aware of the skeptical new englander stereotype you touched on, so maybe that's a part of it. this much i'm certain of: rondo has a decent enough chance to reach his third finals in four seasons come june. there are no pgs in today's nba i'd rather have running this celtics team.  
    Posted by BaileyPowe[/QUOTE]

    Ask them if they were former high school point guards. The critics seem to be heavy in that group. Although I doubt Puddinhead or Duddud ever played Bball.

    The criticism of star players by some fans of the team exists in all sports. I used to here them complain about Yaz hitting into double plays and when I would explain it was because he played on a team that put a lot of players on base and that he always hit the ball hard they still didn't get it. He was just a bum.

    Logic doesn't play as big a role as emotion for the critics of Rondo.


     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from gtown07. Show gtown07's posts

    Re: Earth to Rondo!!!

    In Response to Re: Earth to Rondo!!!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Earth to Rondo!!! : Rondo would stop all discussion about his elite status if he simply had the sack to show up and play both halves... like his life depended on it. For 9 mill a year, we get a half time player. Pud
    Posted by puddinpuddin[/QUOTE]

    At four posts per day on average you are making this a full time job. You are without the sack to know what is great about Rondo.
     
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