Forget the '04 Pistons, C's have a superstar named Rondo and will compare more to the 80's Lakers

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    Forget the '04 Pistons, C's have a superstar named Rondo and will compare more to the 80's Lakers

    for the '84-'88 Lakers

    Magic was 24-28 years old... Rondo is 26

    Magic put up a 19-12-5

    Anyone think Rondo can't do that?

    Magic was a 53/84 FG/FT guy... that is better than Rondo will be as I predict like 48/74. But Magic was a MISERABLE 20% 3 point shooter those years. Rondo shot only 27% on 3's these past playoffs and 24% in the regular season, but showed some improvement there... he needs to build on that and get himself above 30%

    Magic took the team over for Kareem those years as Rondo is about to from PP/KG and make it his team, a run and gun team in HIS STYLE.

    Jamaal Wilkes, a 21 point scoring vet 80-83 #2-3 option who never really meshed perfectly with Magic was also being phased out (17 in 84 then 8 in 85 then gone) as Magic turned to the young Byron Scott, a perfect #4 option 13-15ppg guy 85-88.

    Kinda like the Ray to Lee/Terry transition
     
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    Re: Forget the '04 Pistons, C's have a superstar named Rondo and will compare more to the 80's Lakers

    Kareem turned 37 in April of '84

    KG turns 37 in May of 2013

    Kareem lasted so long b/c of his huge wingspan being bothersome and his skyhook impossible to defend

    KG has a 7'6" wingspan, is closer to 7'1" than 6'11" and can shoot his money 20 footer over mostly shorter defenders until he is 40, like Kareem.

    KG remains a guy with more heart and defensive smarts (one of league's elite pick and roll defenders even at age 35) than Kareem was on the mid-80's Lakers.

    Both guys went from 13 reb guys in their 20's to 8 rebound guys in their early 30's... only Kareem was averging UNDER 5 REBOUNDS A GAME from '84-'88 (yikes) KG will get a little less than the 32-33 mins a game Kareem got those years, but will put up more rebounds.

    Kareem was a 56/73 FG/FT guy, KG is a 52/85 guy.
     
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    Re: Forget the '04 Pistons, C's have a superstar named Rondo and will compare more to the 80's Lakers

    Avery is the defensive stopper like Cooper

    Bass is better than Kupchak and AC Green were for those 5 years 

    Worthy and Scott were better than the similar size/style Green and Lee... but LA didn't have a Jason Terry

    Rambis was merely a 5p/4r undersized PF/C the same way Wilcox is

    LA pieced together McAdoo and Mychal Thompson as the 6th/7th men who used to be big scorers... I see Pierce in that role even if he is a SF instead of a PF... and Pierce is just as much better than those guys were in 84-88 as Worthy is better than Green.

    Worthy and McAdoo/Thompson were giving 28-30 points per game and 9-11 rebounds. I see Pierce and Green doing exactly the same thing.

     
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    Re: Forget the '04 Pistons, C's have a superstar named Rondo and will compare more to the 80's Lakers

    Superstar yes, Top 10 player of all time.  NOT EVEN CLOSE.  Magic is a once in a lifetime player, rondo is very good, but  he isnt anywhere near that level. Rondo has never avgd more than 13pts a game while magic avgd 19 thats a big difference. Thats 50% more scoring production.

    Im not hatin on  rondo, I think hes great, top 3 pg right now in the league, but you brought up the GREATEST PG OF ALL TIME. 
     
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    Re: Forget the '04 Pistons, C's have a superstar named Rondo and will compare more to the 80's Lakers

    In Response to Re: Forget the '04 Pistons, C's have a superstar named Rondo and will compare more to the 80's Lakers:
    Superstar yes, Top 10 player of all time.  NOT EVEN CLOSE.  Magic is a once in a lifetime player, rondo is very good, but  he isnt anywhere near that level. Rondo has never avgd more than 13pts a game while magic avgd 19 thats a big difference. Thats 50% more scoring production. Im not hatin on  rondo, I think hes great, top 3 pg right now in the league, but you brought up the GREATEST PG OF ALL TIME. 
    Posted by gman101019

    Rondo is the little engine that could. You tell him can't he has to prove you wrong.

    He may be about to have a couple of monster years like Kerr did a few years ago.  Rondo in a historic sense cannot be compared to Magic but for the next two years he may have of chance to do something unprecedented in point guard play. He may not but never rule this kid out. You saw how he outplayed Wade and Lebron just by himself until game six.  He has more help this year and if we get rebounder the Celtics will be right there.
     
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    Re: Forget the '04 Pistons, C's have a superstar named Rondo and will compare more to the 80's Lakers

    He may be about to have a couple of monster years like Kerr did a few years ago

    steve kerr? I dont get it. Steve kerr was a 3pt specialist  bench player. His career high avg was 8 ppg. Ru being sarcastic? 
     
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    Re: Forget the '04 Pistons, C's have a superstar named Rondo and will compare more to the 80's Lakers

    In Response to Re: Forget the '04 Pistons, C's have a superstar named Rondo and will compare more to the 80's Lakers:
    Superstar yes, Top 10 player of all time.  NOT EVEN CLOSE.  Magic is a once in a lifetime player, rondo is very good, but  he isnt anywhere near that level. Rondo has never avgd more than 13pts a game while magic avgd 19 thats a big difference. Thats 50% more scoring production. Im not hatin on  rondo, I think hes great, top 3 pg right now in the league, but you brought up the GREATEST PG OF ALL TIME. 
    Posted by gman101019


    Oh I agree with that

    The '04 Pistons were the classic 5 stars no superstar team

    Rondo is the guy that can prove that comparison false. and while he is not Magic, I hardly see a reason why he can't get 19-12-5, maybe b/c he is so unselfish and this team is so deep.

    I had no idea Magic was such a terrible 3 point shooter, I knew it was a small part of his game... but under 20% several years? yeesh
     
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    Re: Forget the '04 Pistons, C's have a superstar named Rondo and will compare more to the 80's Lakers

    In Response to Re: Forget the '04 Pistons, C's have a superstar named Rondo and will compare more to the 80's Lakers:
    In Response to Re: Forget the '04 Pistons, C's have a superstar named Rondo and will compare more to the 80's Lakers : Rondo is the little engine that could. You tell him can't he has to prove you wrong. He may be about to have a couple of monster years like Kerr did a few years ago.  Rondo in a historic sense cannot be compared to Magic but for the next two years he may have of chance to do something unprecedented in point guard play. He may not but never rule this kid out. You saw how he outplayed Wade and Lebron just by himself until game six.  He has more help this year and if we get rebounder the Celtics will be right there.
    Posted by concord27

    My bad, I meant Steve Nash.  I was not trying to be sarcastic. Two monster years like Nash when he won MVP's is what I meant. I am calling for that with Rondo to do it in his own unique way. Forgive my brain freeze. Sorry.
     
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    Re: Forget the '04 Pistons, C's have a superstar named Rondo and will compare more to the 80's Lakers

    rameakap,

     Both the 3 point shot and Magic came into the league in 1979. For the first 7 years the 3 point attempt was pretty much a novelty shot so teams only averaged about 2 per game while shooting 26 %. Now its 18 shots per game and 35%- 36% per game. Magic's shooting less than one 3 pointer EVERY OTHER game indicates that it was not a priority shot for him in those early years. In his last 4 years he averaged 34.9% on 2.75 attempts per game.

     Seems 

     
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    Re: Forget the '04 Pistons, C's have a superstar named Rondo and will compare more to the 80's Lakers

    In Response to Re: Forget the '04 Pistons, C's have a superstar named Rondo and will compare more to the 80's Lakers:
    rameakap,  Both the 3 point shot and Magic came into the league in 1979. For the first 7 years the 3 point attempt was pretty much a novelty shot so teams only averaged about 2 per game while shooting 26 %. Now its 18 shots per game and 35%- 36% per game. Magic's shooting less than one 3 pointer EVERY OTHER game indicates that it was not a priority shot for him in those early years. In his last 4 years he averaged 34.9% on 2.75 attempts per game.  Seems 
    Posted by SeemsToMe


    True, good points

    of course the dimensions of the basketball court, height of the rim, size of the basket and backboard, etc did not change...

    So Rondo attempted 0.6 3 point shots a game and made 26% of them his first 6 years in the league... and was vilified for it repeatedly as a reason he was a TERRIBLE PG...

    yet he shot 48% from the field, led PG's in rebounding with 4.7 a game '09-'12 and has improved his assist total every year in the league and was 3rd, 2nd and 1st in the game each of the past 3 seasons...

    Magic attempted 0.5 a game and shot under 20% and that is something nobody cared about b/c of all the other skills he brought to the game, mostly the same skills (great rebounding for a PG, speed, unselfish court vision, 50% from the floor) that Rondo brings...

    Hmmm
     
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    Re: Forget the '04 Pistons, C's have a superstar named Rondo and will compare more to the 80's Lakers

    Concord,

    No problem, I was just confused becuz it didnt seem like sarcasm and it made no sense and usually your posts are on point. But if u meant nash then that makes sense.

     
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    Re: Forget the '04 Pistons, C's have a superstar named Rondo and will compare more to the 80's Lakers

     rameakap,

      "and that is something nobody cared about b/c of all the other skills he brought to the game"

     The reason That it was no big deal was because of  the fact that 3 point shooting in the early years was so insignificant as to make it statistically irrelevant. That is not the case for Rondo however since 3 point shooting as been a major factor in a game since he was in High school. Now whether or not you agree with the importance of the 3 point shot is a different matter.
    seems

     
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    Re: Forget the '04 Pistons, C's have a superstar named Rondo and will compare more to the 80's Lakers

    In Response to Re: Forget the '04 Pistons, C's have a superstar named Rondo and will compare more to the 80's Lakers:
     rameakap,   "and that is something nobody cared about b/c of all the other skills he brought to the game"  The reason That it was no big deal was because of  the fact that 3 point shooting in the early years was so insignificant as to make it statistically irrelevant. That is not the case for Rondo however since 3 point shooting as been a major factor in a game since he was in High school. Now whether or not you agree with the importance of the 3 point shot is a different matter. seems
    Posted by SeemsToMe


    Well this thread is comparing the roster of the Celtics to the 84-88 Lakers, a team that averaged 370 3 point shots a season with a PG who shot around 20% those years.

    The past 5 seasons the Celtics had the greatest 3 point shooter in the history of the game and another all-star who will prob be in the top 5 in 3's made all-time, and they avg'd 1,290 3 point shots a season. With a PG who shot 27%.

    So you are saying that the showtime Lakers style of play wouldn't work today, b/c they took one 3 pointer to every 3.5 three's the Celtics/NBA are taking today? Yet they put up about 115 a game instead of 95. Or are you saying that despite having TWO of the greatest 3 point shooters in the game on his team, Rondo's being a pass first PG with a poor 3 % was a big problem and Magic being the same style player wasn't b/c nobody took 3's?

    I think it was b/c Ray/PP wanted to sit and shoot 3's and Rondo was ready to run and score 110 a game that the team didn't perform as well as it could have.

    I think playing a style that relies less on the 3, and more on getting high % buckets, transition buckets, layups in general.... will benefit Rondo and finally he has the deep team with guys who can finish at the rim and/or create their own shots that he needs, not a halfcourt curl off picks team

    and that team reminds me more of the 84-88 Lakers in depth and skill than the '04 Pistons, and hopefully will play that way
     
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    Re: Forget the '04 Pistons, C's have a superstar named Rondo and will compare more to the 80's Lakers

    It is all about style of play... when you have Ray and Paul you take a lot of 3's... I mean PP is still here and Lee/Terry are very good 3 point shooters, but you have to think it is now all about what Rondo wants the team to do... and that should be whatever it takes to score the easist buckets and outscore the other team.

    Saying the 3 point shot was irrelevant back then is a bit false, maybe the first couple years of it, but mostly it just wasn't a big part of the Lakers fastbreak game. You had Bird chucking up 200 a season from 85-88 at 41-42%.

    If Magic took say 50 shots a year that he made from 19-21 feet from behind the arc instead, and made 40 of them, so 10 less, he'd still have scored 20 more points overall. His 20% 3 point shooting wasn't good anyway you look at it.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from SeemsToMe. Show SeemsToMe's posts

    Re: Forget the '04 Pistons, C's have a superstar named Rondo and will compare more to the 80's Lakers

    In Response to Re: Forget the '04 Pistons, C's have a superstar named Rondo and will compare more to the 80's Lakers:
    In Response to Re: Forget the '04 Pistons, C's have a superstar named Rondo and will compare more to the 80's Lakers : Well this thread is comparing the roster of the Celtics to the 84-88 Lakers, a team that averaged 370 3 point shots a season with a PG who shot around 20% those years. The past 5 seasons the Celtics had the greatest 3 point shooter in the history of the game and another all-star who will prob be in the top 5 in 3's made all-time, and they avg'd 1,290 3 point shots a season. With a PG who shot 27%. So you are saying that the showtime Lakers style of play wouldn't work today, b/c they took one 3 pointer to every 3.5 three's the Celtics/NBA are taking today? Yet they put up about 115 a game instead of 95. Or are you saying that despite having TWO of the greatest 3 point shooters in the game on his team, Rondo's being a pass first PG with a poor 3 % was a big problem and Magic being the same style player wasn't b/c nobody took 3's? I think it was b/c Ray/PP wanted to sit and shoot 3's and Rondo was ready to run and score 110 a game that the team didn't perform as well as it could have. I think playing a style that relies less on the 3, and more on getting high % buckets, transition buckets, layups in general.... will benefit Rondo and finally he has the deep team with guys who can finish at the rim and/or create their own shots that he needs, not a halfcourt curl off picks team and that team reminds me more of the 84-88 Lakers in depth and skill than the '04 Pistons, and hopefully will play that way
    Posted by rameakap


     Don't know what your above statement has to do with my response to your below comment.

     "I had no idea Magic was such a terrible 3 point shooter, I knew it was a small part of his game... but under 20% several years? yeesh"

      I thought that I made it quite clear that I was refering to a generational difference in the importance of the 3 point shot, so I haven't a clue as to what your above post has to do with Magics 3 point shooting.
     In any event, thanks for your comments.
    Seems
     
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    Re: Forget the '04 Pistons, C's have a superstar named Rondo and will compare more to the 80's Lakers

    In Response to Re: Forget the '04 Pistons, C's have a superstar named Rondo and will compare more to the 80's Lakers:
    In Response to Re: Forget the '04 Pistons, C's have a superstar named Rondo and will compare more to the 80's Lakers :  Don't know what your above statement has to do with my response to your below comment.  "I had no idea Magic was such a terrible 3 point shooter, I knew it was a small part of his game... but under 20% several years? yeesh"   I thought that I made it quite clear that I was refering to a generational difference in the importance of the 3 point shot, so I haven't a clue as to what your above post has to do with Magics 3 point shooting.  In any event, thanks for your comments. Seems
    Posted by SeemsToMe


    Oh gotcha, you didn't want to talk about the comparison of the style and talent of players 1-10 on the 80's showtime Lakers to the current C's you just wanted to single out one comment and declare it to be, what? misleading? False? It wasn't at all.

    20% is 20%. I didn't know how bad Magic was from 3 for the first NINE years of his career. True statement, he was bad. It was only the last 3 seasons that he started taking and making more, at a very Antoine Walker 34%.

    In the 4 years from 85-88 that Bird averaged 200 3's a season and shot over 40% Magic took 175 3's total at around 20%. Rondo took 213 3's the last 4 seasons at 25%. Is it too much of a stretch to think if he made it a part of his game like Magic started to and took 2 or 3 a game that he could hit over 30%? Oh but it is all b/c Rondo should have been hitting 3's since HS b/c he ha dthe shot and Magic didn't? Jerry West and others took TONS of shots from 3 point land, West said if they had the shot when he played he would have had 3 or 4 THOUSAND more career points.

    My point was also that the team played a style that didn't depend on 3's to score however and was incredibly talented, the new Celtics should depend on the 3 -pointer less to score than the teams with Ray and should try and harness the style of play the 80's Lakers had.

    The 80's Celtics had Bird/Ainge from 3 and an automatic bucket by the rim in in McHale. These Celtics have an old 7 footer with an impossibly hard to stop jumper in KG (like Kareem) a triple-double PG who doesn't shoot 3's (like Magic) and guys like Lee, Terry, Pierce, Bass and Jeff Green who can equal the offense of Scott, Worthy, McAdoo/Thompson and AC Green.
     
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    Re: Forget the '04 Pistons, C's have a superstar named Rondo and will compare more to the 80's Lakers

    rameakap,

     Hey, we've been around the block about 3 times on this subject. Each to his own opinion and I thank you for yours,

      Seems
     
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    Re: Forget the '04 Pistons, C's have a superstar named Rondo and will compare more to the 80's Lakers

    In Response to Re: Forget the '04 Pistons, C's have a superstar named Rondo and will compare more to the 80's Lakers:
    rameakap,  Hey, we've been around the block about 3 times on this subject. Each to his own opinion and I thank you for yours,   Seems
    Posted by SeemsToMe


    Well ok whatever, seems like I gave a lot and got back next to nothing, mostly proved my initial comments accurate, but no worries, if you don't want discuss the multiple other takes on the topic or even the main point of this thread its all good
     
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    Re: Forget the '04 Pistons, C's have a superstar named Rondo and will compare more to the 80's Lakers

    In Response to Re: Forget the '04 Pistons, C's have a superstar named Rondo and will compare more to the 80's Lakers:


    Nice, yeah Nash's back is prob more of a concern that his ankles, but he is going to have some serious issues with Rondo, Westbrook and Parker, who have all owned him of late, and this was before his 39th bday and change of scenerio from comfy Phoenix and its medical staff/lott club

    4 of really the only 6 title contenders (once Rose is healthy) have PG's that kill Nash and are top 5 in the league... and the cross-town Clips have the other guy in the top 5 and despite a 2nd rd ceiling are going to pester the Fakers all year
     
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    Re: Forget the '04 Pistons, C's have a superstar named Rondo and will compare more to the 80's Lakers

    In Response to Re: Forget the '04 Pistons, C's have a superstar named Rondo and will compare more to the 80's Lakers:
    In Response to Re: Forget the '04 Pistons, C's have a superstar named Rondo and will compare more to the 80's Lakers : Nice, yeah Nash's back is prob more of a concern that his ankles, but he is going to have some serious issues with Rondo, Westbrook and Parker, who have all owned him of late, and this was before his 39th bday and change of scenerio from comfy Phoenix and its medical staff/lott club 4 of really the only 6 title contenders (once Rose is healthy) have PG's that kill Nash and are top 5 in the league... and the cross-town Clips have the other guy in the top 5 and despite a 2nd rd ceiling are going to pester the Fakers all year
    Posted by rameakap


    Nash's back problem is congenital, and has been something he has had to manage his whole career. This assumption that it is a worrisome condition all of a sudden is something you see through green colored glasses. Nash has had less back problems late in his career, because he manages it without it effecting his play, nor does he miss time with it. He played his as* off last year in a compressed season and was healthy. The last 5 years he has played in 81, 74, 81, 75, and 62 last year, where he missed less time than Rondo.  The Lakers, despite what some here would like to think, are not stupid, they would not have made the deal if it was even 1/10 the concern you keep railing on about. 

    Nash is not going to keep the really good point guards in front of him, really, no one keeps the really great ones in front of them. The Lakers will manage just fine because they have an awesome pair of players protecting the rim behind him. The Lakers will be able to play up on their men collectively, and be more aggressive with a an elite level defensive security blanket in the paint behind them.

    The Lakers will be a better defensive team, with Nash and Howard, then they were with Fisher and Sessions, who couldn't guard anyone, because the very best defensive big man in the NBA is there to clean up the mess. Bynum was a liability guarding the pick and roll, Dwight is elite, they will be quite a bit better with one of the best athletes in the Game back there. Don't sleep on the rebounds either, this team will board on both ends with the best of the NBA.

    On the flip side, Nash is an elite NBA pick and roll point guard, because not only is he great at executing the pass, but he is one of the best shooters out there, from anywhere on the floor. To accentuate the point, he will have the best roll man in the NBA setting the screen and rolling to the basket. If i was a betting man, that pick and roll combo does just a tad more than just pester teams around the NBA, it will be devastating. 

    Let's not forget Gasol on the low post, the way he can facitiate and score. And Kobe on the wing, well you all just can't see through the seething hatred to realize how elite he still is. Nash will make him better, more efficient. There is a ton of basketball IQ on the floor, with an awesome facilitator. This notion that Kobe will not be smart enough to play withing the framework with these running mates, is just totally disrespecting one of the best basketball minds out there. 

     
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