Free Throw Imbalances

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    Free Throw Imbalances

    In last night's game between Houston and Golden State (10/27/2010), the Rockets shot 52 free throws, while the home team Warriors shot only 26. Many have posted here in the past about free-throw imbalances that have allegedly cost the Celtics games, especially in the playoffs. There is no rule/law that says the number of free throws taken or fouls committed has to be the same or about the same for both teams. One team might just foul more than the other.

    Oh, and by the way, the Warriors won despite the free throw imbalance against them. Go figure!!
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from RUMcHale. Show RUMcHale's posts

    Re: Free Throw Imbalances

    I suspect that with Yao playing the Rockets will 'attract' plenty of foul calls just like Shaq did when he was with the Lakers. When guys like that get deep in the paint usually the only way to stop them is to put them on the free throw line.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from CHEisCHE. Show CHEisCHE's posts

    Re: Free Throw Imbalances

    This grassy knolls conspiracy will never stop until the source will stop whistling phantom calls.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from hedleylamarr. Show hedleylamarr's posts

    Re: Free Throw Imbalances

    In Response to Free Throw Imbalances:
    [QUOTE]In last night's game between Houston and Golden State (10/27/2010), the Rockets shot 52 free throws, while the home team Warriors shot only 26. Many have posted here in the past about free-throw imbalances that have allegedly cost the Celtics games, especially in the playoffs. There is no rule/law that says the number of free throws taken or fouls committed has to be the same or about the same for both teams. One team might just foul more than the other. Oh, and by the way, the Warriors won despite the free throw imbalance against them. Go figure!!
    Posted by ControllerMod[/QUOTE]

    Was that in a Game 7 of the NBA Finals?

    Oh, and by the way, THE HOME TEAM won - that just proves my point even more.  If the home team was behind, it wouldn't have been 52-26........it would have been more like 37-17!
     
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    Re: Free Throw Imbalances

    In Response to Re: Free Throw Imbalances:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Free Throw Imbalances : Was that in a Game 7 of the NBA Finals? Oh, and by the way, THE HOME TEAM won - that just proves my point even more.  If the home team was behind, it wouldn't have been 52-26........it would have been more like 37-17!
    Posted by hedleylamarr[/QUOTE]

    Well, the team won despite getting outnumbered in FTA by 26. Go figure...

    Your team fouled more and fouled early. That caused the FT discrepancy. This game just proved two points:

    - team can still win despite getting a lot fewer FTAs;
    - team enjoying the FT advantages are not necessarily the home team.

    Live with it.

     
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    Re: Free Throw Imbalances

    In Response to Re: Free Throw Imbalances:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Free Throw Imbalances : Your post proves two points: 1.  You are yet another lakers troll 2.  You can't read English. The HOME Team wins in the NBA.  If Game 7 was at the Garden, do you really think it would be 37-17 FT for the lakers?  NO WAY! Also fail to see why so many people agree with me, yet your post  is directed at me.  That would be a mistake, so back off!
    Posted by hedleylamarr[/QUOTE]
    I sure think it would. Now what? If the Celtics are that bad in defense and play dumb basketball, it sure can be 37-17 FT for the Lakers. Who confessed that the Lakers advantages on the FT were all due to the rebounds and extra possessions?

    And if the HOME Team wins in the NBA, whose fault is it? Who claimed that they can't get motivated for the regular season? tank it? and hope that shot in the dark (winning a game 7 on the road, like the fluke in 1969) hit again?
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from hedleylamarr. Show hedleylamarr's posts

    Re: Free Throw Imbalances

    In Response to Re: Free Throw Imbalances:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Free Throw Imbalances : I sure think it would. Now what? If the Celtics are that bad in defense and play dumb basketball, it sure can be 37-17 FT for the Lakers. Who confessed that the Lakers advantages on the FT were all due to the rebounds and extra possessions? And if the HOME Team wins in the NBA, whose fault is it? Who claimed that they can't get motivated for the regular season? tank it? and hope that shot in the dark (winning a game 7 on the road, like the fluke in 1969) hit again?
    Posted by OldFirm[/QUOTE]

    Since the 70's, when the NBA began being covered on TV, the HOME team wins about 70% of the time.  That is not in dispute.
    Spin it any way you want. 
    Doc Rivers' "confession" is what he has to say.  Think he wants to be fined like Phil?  Deep down, he knows........37-17 in a Game 7 is just not right!!

    Say hi to Glass Cow Ranger when you see him!!
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from BaileyPowe. Show BaileyPowe's posts

    Re: Free Throw Imbalances

    70% of the time the home team wins? that's a heck of a stat. i calculated where the home team in mlb won 56% of the time in 2010 and 57% of the time in the nfl in 2009. assuming my one year mlb and nfl calculations are indicative of the norm in those respective sports and also that hedley is correct w/ his 70% figure in the nba, i ask why is the home advantage so much greater in the nba than it is in football and baseball? 
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from hedleylamarr. Show hedleylamarr's posts

    Re: Free Throw Imbalances

    In Response to Re: Free Throw Imbalances:
    [QUOTE]I respectfully disagree with the assertion that a Game 7 should be treated any differently than any other game. As I stated in the original post, there is no rule/law that says the number of free throws taken or fouls committed has to be the same or about the same for both teams. But, many posters here seem to believe otherwise. Some teams are just more foul prone. The Utah Jazz for one commit more fouls than most of their opponents in head-to-head matchups. Tired Celtics team in game 7, too. As to avoiding the fines by speaking out, Dan Gilbert was fined for assertions about LeBron quitting on the Cavs, and, in spite of those fines, asserted again recently that he stands by what he said back at the beginning of summer. Several announcers, who one would think would not want to upset David Stern, have gone on record recently with their criticisms of his new technical foul policy. Steve Kerr said that the blocking call on the charging by LeBron in the opener was a bad call in which the ref predetermined his call before the collision. Is he going to lose his job? If Sheed or some other retired Celtic goes on record at some point in the future that the officiating in Game 7 was so totally egregious in comparison to a typical playoff game, then I will give these claims some credence. But until then, it is mere speculation that Doc and Danny and the players and the owners and the announcers are holding their tongues because they do not want to be fined. PJ (and Buss, since he paid the fines) always went along with being fined when they had complaints.
    Posted by ControllerMod[/QUOTE]

    Playoffs are officiated differently than reg season.  Everyone knows that.
    Steve Kerr doesn't work for the NBA, he works for the network.  Van Gundy and Jackson say a lot of calls are wrong, too. As does Hubie Brown.  That is an unfair comparison. They ARE officiated differently!

    Don't care what Gilbert said, not in the least.  He was and is very upset.  Doc and Danny are holding their tongues.  I don't know how they really feel and neither do you.

    You did state in your original post that there is no law about foul calls.  That is true.  Some teams foul more, that is also true.  BUT, if the game was at the Garden, the Celtics win................and there is nothing you can say to make me change my mind on that......respectfully, of course!
     
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from hedleylamarr. Show hedleylamarr's posts

    Re: Free Throw Imbalances

    In Response to Re: Free Throw Imbalances:
    [QUOTE]70% of the time the home team wins? that's a heck of a stat. i calculated where the home team in mlb won 56% of the time in 2010 and 57% of the time in the nfl in 2009. assuming my one year mlb and nfl calculations are indicative of the norm in those respective sports and also that hedley is correct w/ his 70% figure in the nba, i ask why is the home advantage so much greater in the nba than it is in football and baseball?  
    Posted by BaileyPowe[/QUOTE]

    I read it AND heard it someplace.  It may have even been Hubie Brown.  It's in the playoffs, though, not overall!!  I forgot where, but I just remember it sticking with me!
    I think it has something to do with the proximity of the refs to the fans and coaches, it can be intimidating.  If  you have other info, please share, but I'm fairly sure I'm correct on this!
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from BaileyPowe. Show BaileyPowe's posts

    Re: Free Throw Imbalances

    i'm suggesting that it's curious the nba is so out of line w/ the other two sports mentioned regarding home advantage. i find that interesting and revealing of stern's nba. just saying....
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Re: Free Throw Imbalances

    In Response to Re: Free Throw Imbalances:
    [QUOTE]This grassy knolls conspiracy will never stop until the source will stop whistling phantom calls.
    Posted by CHEisCHE[/QUOTE]

    The calls in the 4th quarter of game 7 were terrible and pro-LA, that is 100% FACT. If they were made in an attempt to get LA back into the game and then the victory, who knows, that cannot be proved.

    But stop trying to claim poor officiating was not as responsible for the loss as Ray's cold shooting, KG's regression from '08 and Perk's injury. I say they are all equally to blame. 

    Kobe 'the MVP' went 6-24. Conspiracy Theory there as well b/c Pau deserved the MVP more and it was Kobe being parading to the line for ticky-tack bull calls in the 4th. Pau upped his game, outplayed KG and played C a lot b/c Bynum was hurting. Meanwhile Kobe was slightly worse than his other playoff series and regular season. Therefore, who was more valuable?

    If the C's got 1-2 buckets from Ray and had TWO phantom kobe calls go as the correct non-calls and TWO hacks on KG called as fouls on LA... we'd have won by 5-8 points.

    But beyond that, just be disgusted that it had to happen that way and put it in the past. At least we took it 7 and lost by 4 while LA was humiliated in game 6 to us by what? 39? 

    I agree it is a topic no longer worth bringing up. 

    But Che, you must know or feel deep down that the refs were a black eye on the sport in that game. Anyone concentrating could see the gaff's and how hard work and courage for 3 quarters was being stolen from the Celtics by whistle after whistle as the last 12 mins were officiated different than the 1st 36.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from hedleylamarr. Show hedleylamarr's posts

    Re: Free Throw Imbalances

    In Response to Re: Free Throw Imbalances:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Free Throw Imbalances : We sure do.  Doc said: "We got crushed on the boards [53-40] and at the end of the day, that created their free-throw advantage. "I always hear about the free throws they shot [37 to the Celtics' 17], but the extra possessions created that." If that's not what he feels, he can easily say nothing, i.e. HOLD THEIR TONGUES. That's not what Doc did. He deliberately said something contrary to what you claim he thinks. Keep dreaming. Hate to burst your bubble, but where is the "Garden"? I think they stopped playing in the Garden long time ago. You think this is still the Bill Russell era? And if I were 6'6" I would be greater than Michael Jordan... Since the game wasn't played in the Garden, so you accepted that the Celtics deserved to lose?
    Posted by OldFirm[/QUOTE]

    http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Where_do_the_Boston_Celtics_play_home_games

    TD Banknorth Garden is the answer.  We still call it the Garden, soccer Mom.  And I am DONE with you - I shall not respond to your petty retorts anymore.  Your posts make NO sense, you repeat the same BS over and over again.  You WON in 2010, get over yourself.  Don't respond to me anymore, especially when I'm not speaking to you.  You are the biggest trouble maker on this forum, and your account is already under review.........Happy Halloween, but I'm done because you give me the creeps!
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from SShoreLurker. Show SShoreLurker's posts

    Re: Free Throw Imbalances

    Fact:
    The calls in the 4th quarter of game 7 were terrible and pro-LA, that is 100% FACT

    I love it when people interject an opinion and call it a fact.

    FACT: Oreo cookies are terrible with milk!
    Ummmmm.... no thats an opinion.

    How can you be credible when you speak with basic ignorance?  You don't even know the meaning of the word and yet boastfully use it in a forum of debate and opinion.


    Here's a FACT, the Celtics got out-rebounded in game 7 which led to many second chance shots for the Lakers.  OPINION: For an older team fighting in vain to grab rebounds after a slugfest of a game, they simply ran out of gas.

    No conspiracy.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from OldFirm. Show OldFirm's posts

    Re: Free Throw Imbalances

    In Response to Re: Free Throw Imbalances:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Free Throw Imbalances : http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Where_do_the_Boston_Celtics_play_home_games TD Banknorth Garden is the answer.  We still call it the Garden, soccer Mom.  And I am DONE with you - I shall not respond to your petty retorts anymore.  Your posts make NO sense, you repeat the same BS over and over again.  You WON in 2010, get over yourself.  Don't respond to me anymore, especially when I'm not speaking to you.  You are the biggest trouble maker on this forum, and your account is already under review.........Happy Halloween, but I'm done because you give me the creeps!
    Posted by hedleylamarr[/QUOTE]

    Umm.... someone keep yapping about the game 7 FTs, again and again for 3 months, and if that's not the trouble maker, I don't know who is.

    You lost in 2010, you folks should get over it and accept the fact. There is no fact supporting that FTs are the only reason for the Celtic loss. As your Bill Russell say, "the best team always win in a 7-game series". So over the whole series, the Lakers were better. It's that simple, not to mention the Celtics getting dominated on the boards.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from hedleylamarr. Show hedleylamarr's posts

    Re: Free Throw Imbalances

    In Response to Re: Free Throw Imbalances:
    [QUOTE]Fact: The calls in the 4th quarter of game 7 were terrible and pro-LA, that is 100% FACT I love it when people interject an opinion and call it a fact. FACT: Oreo cookies are terrible with milk! Ummmmm.... no thats an opinion. How can you be credible when you speak with basic ignorance?  You don't even know the meaning of the word and yet boastfully use it in a forum of debate and opinion. Here's a FACT, the Celtics got out-rebounded in game 7 which led to many second chance shots for the Lakers.  OPINION: For an older team fighting in vain to grab rebounds after a slugfest of a game, they simply ran out of gas. No conspiracy.
    Posted by SShoreLurker[/QUOTE]
    Here's a FACT -
    I've been a ref since 1982, and there were plenty of phantom calls in that game.

    Everything else you said, however, is also true.  Too many second chance points.

    I have no problem with the 37, it's the 17 that I question.

    Bye!
     
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    Re: Free Throw Imbalances

    In Response to Re: Free Throw Imbalances:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Free Throw Imbalances : Simple, stop this poor sarcasm like: "Was that in a Game 7 of the NBA Finals? Oh, and by the way, THE HOME TEAM won - that just proves my point even more.  If the home team was behind, it wouldn't have been 52-26........it would have been more like 37-17!" So you said it a million times that the Lakers were better? yet you are smarting here and there about the FTs, about the officiating, about the home court effect on the refs? even now after a Rocket/Warrior game, why? Is it because your admission isn't genuine? Well, I can smell it thousands of miles away...
    Posted by OldFirm[/QUOTE]

    33 posts already. Trying to level up?
     
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    Re: Free Throw Imbalances

    In Response to Re: Free Throw Imbalances:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Free Throw Imbalances : Here's a FACT - I've been a ref since 1982, and there were plenty of phantom calls in that game.
    Posted by hedleylamarr[/QUOTE]

    Fouls are judgement calls, by the judgement of the refs. If's your JUDGEMENT that they are phantom, mainly because of your tainted glasses. But you can't seriously believe that the refs in that game see those as non-fouls but deliberately call fouls on the Celtics. You are not the officials of that game 7, so your judgement doesn't count. The NBA doesn't need your approval on whether a foul should be called or not.



     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from futbal. Show futbal's posts

    Re: Free Throw Imbalances

    In Response to Re: Free Throw Imbalances:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Free Throw Imbalances : Here's a FACT - I've been a ref since 1982, and there were plenty of phantom calls in that game. Everything else you said, however, is also true.  Too many second chance points. I have no problem with the 37, it's the 17 that I question. Bye!
    Posted by hedleylamarr[/QUOTE]
    Great retort. Since facts can be established by expert testimony, your background as a ref is highly relevant. I used the word "fact" when I saw the NBA highlight film, yes, the League Game 7 highlight film and it contained three wrong calls on KG in a short span of time in quarters three (late) and four (early)...two non called fouls on KG and one block (when Kobe ran into him) that was a charge. Is the world flat or round? Why? Funny, I've heard it's neither (it's an oblate spheroid). 
    Is it a "fact" that the Celtics ran out of gas?
     
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    Re: Free Throw Imbalances

    In Response to Re: Free Throw Imbalances:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Free Throw Imbalances : Your post proves two points: 1.  You are yet another lakers troll 2.  You can't read English. The HOME Team wins in the NBA.  If Game 7 was at the Garden, do you really think it would be 37-17 FT for the lakers?  NO WAY! Also fail to see why so many people agree with me, yet your post  is directed at me.  That would be a mistake, so back off!
    Posted by hedleylamarr[/QUOTE]

    The team that gets destroyed on the glass has two things happen to them. 

    One, the better rebounding team has many more possessions, and therefore takes many more shots, getting fouled more, and usually ends up shooting more free throws. Doc Rivers explained it well, when he explained why their was a free throw imbalance. This has much less to do with being at home, that it does to being destroyed on the glass.

    Two, you usually lose, home or away; if you get hosed on the glass like the Celtics did. What was consistently the formula for victory in this series? Defense and Rebounding was usually the key factor. On the other hand, each team worked through the home court issue by winning on the opponent's court. 37-17 equates to 10 more trips to the line. Celtics got out-rebounded, which lead to the Lakers getting many more possessions. They played the game from the inside out, and they got to the line. This home game theory only holds water if the Lakers got the benefit of biased officiating, which they didn't. Ask your head coach, he explained it well after he watched the game for the first time at the end of the summer.
     
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    Re: Free Throw Imbalances

    In Response to Free Throw Imbalances:
    [QUOTE]In last night's game between Houston and Golden State (10/27/2010), the Rockets shot 52 free throws, while the home team Warriors shot only 26. Many have posted here in the past about free-throw imbalances that have allegedly cost the Celtics games, especially in the playoffs. There is no rule/law that says the number of free throws taken or fouls committed has to be the same or about the same for both teams. One team might just foul more than the other. Oh, and by the way, the Warriors won despite the free throw imbalance against them. Go figure!!
    Posted by ControllerMod[/QUOTE]
    Great post. Agree 100%.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from FlobusMcNugget. Show FlobusMcNugget's posts

    Re: Free Throw Imbalances

    I'm pretty sure I recall the announcers commenting in the middle of game 7 on the big minutes the Celtics starters were logging and wondering aloud if they would have any gas left in the tank in the fourth quarter.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from OldFirm. Show OldFirm's posts

    Re: Free Throw Imbalances

    In Response to Re: Free Throw Imbalances:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Free Throw Imbalances : Great retort. Since facts can be established by expert testimony, your background as a ref is highly relevant. [/QUOTE]
    His background as a Celtic horn blower already disqualified him as an expert.

    [QUOTE]
    I used the word "fact" when I saw the NBA highlight film, yes, the League Game 7 highlight film and it contained three wrong calls on KG in a short span of time in quarters three (late) and four (early)...two non called fouls on KG and one block (when Kobe ran into him) that was a charge. Is the world flat or round? Why? Funny, I've heard it's neither (it's an oblate spheroid).  Is it a "fact" that the Celtics ran out of gas?
    Posted by futbal[/QUOTE]
    It's a FACT that you are passing your judgement as "facts".
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from hedleylamarr. Show hedleylamarr's posts

    Re: Free Throw Imbalances

    In Response to Re: Free Throw Imbalances:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Free Throw Imbalances : Great retort. Since facts can be established by expert testimony, your background as a ref is highly relevant. I used the word "fact" when I saw the NBA highlight film, yes, the League Game 7 highlight film and it contained three wrong calls on KG in a short span of time in quarters three (late) and four (early)...two non called fouls on KG and one block (when Kobe ran into him) that was a charge. Is the world flat or round? Why? Funny, I've heard it's neither (it's an oblate spheroid).  Is it a "fact" that the Celtics ran out of gas?
    Posted by futbal[/QUOTE]

    Thanks, your post is dead-on accurate as well!
     
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