game 5 hawks-celts thread: I blame this loss on PETEY til he starts Thursday's thread on time per usual and gets us rolling with PHILLY!!

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    Re: game 5 thread: hawks-celts

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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: game 5 thread: hawks-celts : Really? Just drive to the hoop huh? Thats genius, I'm sure Rondo didn't realize that.... You don't think it was good defense by the Hawks to force him into a corner? If it had been the other way around you would have praised the defense.
    Posted by basketbert[/QUOTE]

    basketbert. He is the point guard right? He had I believe it was Johnson on his heels turning at midcourt. He needed to drive that ball to the basket. Yes. He helped them on D by going into the sideline corner. By no means am I saying he should have won the game, but he should have driven hard to the hoop, yes.
     
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    Re: game 5 thread: hawks-celts, I blame this loss on PETEY!

    I am very very sorry.  This Tuesday night softball is really imposing on my Celtics time.  With games at 6:30 and 8:00, I intended to start it early before leaving for my games.

    Couple that with home computer problems and I could not get the thread started.  I will be on hand to close this thing out on Thursday.
     
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    Re: game 5 thread: hawks-celts

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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: game 5 thread: hawks-celts : basketbert. He is the point guard right? He had I believe it was Johnson on his heels turning at midcourt. He needed to drive that ball to the basket. Yes. He helped them on D by going into the sideline corner. By no means am I saying he should have won the game, but he should have driven hard to the hoop, yes.
    Posted by antiqueman1[/QUOTE]
    should have? Yes perhaps.
    I'm just saying that they forced him to the side and into a corner. Good defense.
    Rondo probably intended for KG to have the shot.
    The whole thing should have been avoided anyway by having had a timeout left.
     
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    Re: game 5 thread: hawks-celts, I blame this loss on PETEY!

    In Response to Re: game 5 thread: hawks-celts, I blame this loss on PETEY!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: game 5 thread: hawks-celts, I blame this loss on PETEY! : welcome to hell.  this is what bass has been known for his whole career.  at least fatty fat fatso glen davis could go out there and mash the crap out of someone's 5.  if anyone really believes the bass project was really a good idea in favor of NOT having ainge do his job and iron out doc river's daddy dearest problems with glen that were...  unprofessional to say the least- you need your head examined. bass scored a little bit tonight for a change.  and played HORRIBLE defense.  when you're an AGING team with an ELITE HELP DEFENSE system in place, why would you ever get rid of the LYNCH PIN of the help defense, the enabler if you will?  that's what davis was- he enabled all the switches, then got back QUICKLy and interrupted passing lanes like bill fitch was sending secret messages out to the bench through the waterboy.  glen drew charges.  a lot of them. bass turns his head sideways or goes and makes a completley unadvisable "switch" or "help" and/or never gets back to cover from his switch (never switches back).  he's utterly lost in this system.  so the other team gets layups.  and if we abandon the help system then guys like pierce, kg and ray will feel their age more than ever- it was the great freshness preserver for them, wtih one frenetic fatty fat fatso young guy doing all the work to hold stuff together.  davis paid for a lot of rondo's gambling for steals too. welcome to hell.  dysfunctional help defensive system and terrible overall defense from wonderboy bass.  sure hope it was worth saving 2 million a year to get horrible at what we did best last year and for YEARS
    Posted by aciemvp[/QUOTE]wow, you 've forgotten how Turrrrible mr. davis was in last year's playoffs. didnt want to be here, had that faraway look. ftr, bass has been the BEST defensive player by independent metrics all year. he was 9th for the least number of points given up to any guy he was actually covering. kg by comparison was around 20th. celts do not run any plays for bassy.he's just floating. even as just a threat, he's farrr bettter than bbd. esp for our system and rondo out there. bbd is best for orlando but bass is farrrr best for us. danny got that one right. everyone "slumps", not worried about bass. want him to pick up his option for next year as well
     
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    Re: game 5 hawks-celts thread: I blame this loss on PETEY til he starts Thursday's thread on time per usual and gets us rolli...

    We lost for the same reason we lose at least 75% of our games, shooting %s, foul shots, turnovers etc. were not heavyily in favor of either team but REBOUNDS WERE 41-33 SO THEY HAD 8 MORE CHANCES FOR POINTS !!!

    And I know we can't do anything about this but in many games when we get outrebounded, we shoot 5-10% better to compensate. Last night we didn't.
     
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    Re: game 5 thread: hawks-celts, I blame this loss on PETEY!

    In Response to Re: game 5 thread: hawks-celts, I blame this loss on PETEY!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: game 5 thread: hawks-celts, I blame this loss on PETEY! : Baby was really lights out last year in the playoffs.  He could not have been worse. Bass has fourteen points tonight.  Pierce and Rondo did not play well in crunch time and that is why we lost.   Bradley had two points so put him on your list as well. We will win game six.
    Posted by concord27[/QUOTE]

    interesting.  i guess when someone is "fat" then no quarter is given.  does anyone remember that davis had a patellar tendon injury at about the 60 or 65 game mark?  at the time he got hurt he was playing knock-em-dead ball for us and was the only thing b/t KG and having to inadvisably play the 5 spot.  davis only got less than a week off from that and then because of the injury could not work out much from there on out on risk of aggravating the injury.  so he lost some conditioning and probably could have made better decisions with the fork and knife. 

    he came back and tried, but he wasn't all there after that.  when davis was healthy, we were THE BEST TEAM IN THE LEAGUE last year.  with bass healthy, we were TWENTY LOSSES MORE this year over the same amount of games with about the same supporting cast- nothing at the 5 and pretty much change out bass for davis, and i do  believe we were THE SAME horrible rebounding team this year as we were last year, but times are so much better that davis is gone? 

    but most of all, our help D system was destroyed by adding bass, an inferior individual or team defender by any objective observer's measure.  THIS is why he didn't stick in DAL or ORL.  both individually and within a help system, bass is not just knitting needles in the eyes on D, but more like three pitchforks buried in your face to watch and see his failures of discerning when and where to switch, not getting back, and then just abhorrent plain old failures when playing individual D fighthing through picks or defending pick and roll.

    this team is old and did not need to get WORSE at defense....  but we have
     
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    Re: game 5 thread: hawks-celts

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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: game 5 thread: hawks-celts : should have? Yes perhaps. I'm just saying that they forced him to the side and into a corner. Good defense. Rondo probably intended for KG to have the shot. The whole thing should have been avoided anyway by having had a timeout left.
    Posted by basketbert[/QUOTE]

    Absolutely. Agree. But Rondo is good enough to drive hard and either get his own shot off or create a passing lane with his drive. And it was Smith he had backtracking in center of court. I know it was only 9 seconds or so. But it was all compounded in the end by Pierce shooting that horrible short shot with lots of time left on the shot clock on previous posession. But I guess he believed in himself as he always does. I just think Rondo needs to think of himself more as a scorer when his team is sputtering. He did it with 2 mins left in the 3rd. Continue it young Rondo. Continue it
     
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    Re: game 5 thread: hawks-celts, I blame this loss on PETEY!

    In Response to Re: game 5 thread: hawks-celts, I blame this loss on PETEY!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: game 5 thread: hawks-celts, I blame this loss on PETEY! : wow, you 've forgotten how Turrrrible mr. davis was in last year's playoffs. didnt want to be here, had that faraway look. ftr, bass has been the BEST defensive player by independent metrics all year. he was 9th for the least number of points given up to any guy he was actually covering. kg by comparison was around 20th. celts do not run any plays for bassy.he's just floating. even as just a threat, he's farrr bettter than bbd. esp for our system and rondo out there. bbd is best for orlando but bass is farrrr best for us. danny got that one right. everyone "slumps", not worried about bass. want him to pick up his option for next year as well
    Posted by COMMUNIST-CONTRARIAN[/QUOTE]

    you're doubly full of CRAP.  davis got hurt late in the season last year- patellar tendon strain- that's the prelude to blowing it out if you push the issue, YOU MORON.  it's amazing how conveniently people forget about anything with davis that wasn't pink ice cream results.  that's a serious injury.  he came back and was not the same as before.  he was UNABLE to work out during his rest time and working out was cut down after he came back as well.  he gained some weight.  probably some mistakes made there in the diet- but anyone would have been i less good shape.

    THEN you add in that doc rivers turned on him like a scorned psychotic girlfriend and started to go to the press YET AGAIN about davis like he has NEVER "gone to the press" on ANY OTHER CELTIC.  so exactly how many times can you do that as a coach to a young player and not "lose" them?  doc did it on purpose last year MANY times because he wanted to get rid of davis. 

    and it worked, finally, davis couldn't take it any more.  compare that to the rock star treatment bass has got this year for putting up the same per minute numbers as davis last year that included a post-injury fall off for davis.  nothing but praise.  for that matter, nothing but praise for 57% FT shooting rondo over the last six years.  no public scorn emitting about sheed showing up fat, flabby, lazy, giving away all the leads starters got two years ago but DAVIS was a DEMON for defending himself after being punched in the head. 

    if you look back davis was singled out by dumbo-doc as BAD and DISAPPOINTING whenever doc could find anything to be that way about- yet let's just take for example the STINKO bland-one bass defense all this year- especially in the playoffs.  not a word to the press!  bass is a "great athlete" is the company line.

    the celts get what they deserve in this deal.  very little wisdom was put into the "trade" we made which was more than that, it was the ENDING of our help defense system.  period.  because bass can't even play individual defense.  and this KG at the 5 spot thing, in the playoffs.  slow down style, bump and grind.  look at kg's frame.  regular season doesn't matter.  playoffs- kg at the 5- not going to work out so well.  add in no-defense brandon across the way at the 4 and you have horford posting 18 and 11 on efficient numbers and bass nowhere near canceling him out.  to compound matters, hollins is an equal bimbo on defense to bass' clueless. 

    great moves by danny and doc.  talent evaluation and management.  failed again.  but it's all good, we'll be rebuilding soon, with a jekyll hyde point guard and an undersized 4 who can't play defense or face the spot light at all whatsoever.  why did we sign bass for 3 or 4 years anyway?  who else was lining up for his services?  was the sign and trade worth it?  nope.  bass has had five or six years in the league to 'get it' on D.  he doesn't and won't. 

    but i know, davis was wicked fat, and never had an injury last year, and doc didn't ride him out of town mentally like sea biscuit.  and brandon's a "great athlete", we'll just never mind the fact that he doesn't play defense like one.
     
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    Re: game 5 hawks-celts thread: I blame this loss on PETEY til he starts Thursday's thread on time per usual and gets us rolli...

    In Response to Re: game 5 hawks-celts thread: I blame this loss on PETEY til he starts Thursday's thread on time per usual and gets us rolling with PHILLY!!:
    [QUOTE]We lost for the same reason we lose at least 75% of our games, shooting %s, foul shots, turnovers etc. were not heavyily in favor of either team but REBOUNDS WERE 41-33 SO THEY HAD 8 MORE CHANCES FOR POINTS !!! And I know we can't do anything about this but in many games when we get outrebounded, we shoot 5-10% better to compensate. Last night we didn't.
    Posted by mandobello[/QUOTE]

    Rebounding will always be a problem but the Celtics took more shots then ATL last night so they had 4 more chances to score than ATL. The bigger problem is Bass. He's exposed defensively. Pierce was on 1 leg not closing out but Doc has to see that an yank him. Bass accounted for a good 10-14 points on blown assignments. He has had minimal impact on the game offensively thus he's been nearly worthless. KG can't cover Hortford and Smith at the same time.
     
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    Re: game 5 thread: hawks-celts, I blame this loss on PETEY!

    In Response to Re: game 5 thread: hawks-celts, I blame this loss on PETEY!:
      but i know, davis was wicked fat, and never had an injury last year, and doc didn't ride him out of town mentally like sea biscuit.  and brandon's a "great athlete", we'll just never mind the fact that he doesn't play defense like one.
    Posted by aciemvp[/QUOTE]

    I don't buy that he is fat and slowed down because of weight. He energized the Magic much more than D. Howard. I don't have the stats to compare them but I bet he's scored more & had more rebounds than Bass but the most important thing is, I believe, and something missing from Bass, he's a much better defender!
     
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    Re: game 5 thread: hawks-celts, I blame this loss on PETEY!

    In response to "Re: game 5 thread: hawks-celts, I blame this loss on PETEY!": [QUOTE]In Response to Re: game 5 thread: hawks-celts, I blame this loss on PETEY! : you're doubly full of CRAP.  davis got hurt late in the season last year- patellar tendon strain- that's the prelude to blowing it out if you push the issue, YOU MORON.  it's amazing how conveniently people forget about anything with davis that wasn't pink ice cream results.  that's a serious injury.  he came back and was not the same as before.  he was UNABLE to work out during his rest time and working out was cut down after he came back as well.  he gained some weight.  probably some mistakes made there in the diet- but anyone would have been i less good shape. THEN you add in that doc rivers turned on him like a scorned psychotic girlfriend and started to go to the press YET AGAIN about davis like he has NEVER "gone to the press" on ANY OTHER CELTIC.  so exactly how many times can you do that as a coach to a young player and not "lose" them?  doc did it on purpose last year MANY times because he wanted to get rid of davis.  and it worked, finally, davis couldn't take it any more.  compare that to the rock star treatment bass has got this year for putting up the same per minute numbers as davis last year that included a post-injury fall off for davis.  nothing but praise.  for that matter, nothing but praise for 57% FT shooting rondo over the last six years.  no public scorn emitting about sheed showing up fat, flabby, lazy, giving away all the leads starters got two years ago but DAVIS was a DEMON for defending himself after being punched in the head.  if you look back davis was singled out by dumbo-doc as BAD and DISAPPOINTING whenever doc could find anything to be that way about- yet let's just take for example the STINKO bland-one bass defense all this year- especially in the playoffs.  not a word to the press!  bass is a "great athlete" is the company line. the celts get what they deserve in this deal.  very little wisdom was put into the "trade" we made which was more than that, it was the ENDING of our help defense system.  period.  because bass can't even play individual defense.  and this KG at the 5 spot thing, in the playoffs.  slow down style, bump and grind.  look at kg's frame.  regular season doesn't matter.  playoffs- kg at the 5- not going to work out so well.  add in no-defense brandon across the way at the 4 and you have horford posting 18 and 11 on efficient numbers and bass nowhere near canceling him out.  to compound matters, hollins is an equal bimbo on defense to bass' clueless.  great moves by danny and doc.  talent evaluation and management.  failed again.  but it's all good, we'll be rebuilding soon, with a jekyll hyde point guard and an undersized 4 who can't play defense or face the spot light at all whatsoever.  why did we sign bass for 3 or 4 years anyway?  who else was lining up for his services?  was the sign and trade worth it?  nope.  bass has had five or six years in the league to 'get it' on D.  he doesn't and won't.  but i know, davis was wicked fat, and never had an injury last year, and doc didn't ride him out of town mentally like sea biscuit.  and brandon's a "great athlete", we'll just never mind the fact that he doesn't play defense like one. Posted by aciemvp[/QUOTE] Wow, Acie. With all that anger, it's a wonder you can even cheer for the Celtics. You don't like the Coach because he was down on your favorite player. You're down on the GM because he can't judge talent (despite their choices in developing Rondo, Perk, Bradley, BBD, Gomes, Jefferson, etc). You make plenty of good points about the benefits Davis brought to this team as well as good points about Bass's rebounding and defensive deficiencies. Actually, I agree with the fact that fans go overboard in their criticism of Davis. We are now missing what he brought. Likewise, you go overboard, however, in your inability to recognize that Davis's mistakes last year were only partially due to injury. His attitude and decisions were a cancer in that he really thought he was better than he was and took shots outside the offensive flow. I liked him up to that point and I don't blame Doc for being candid with the press about BBD, just as VanGundy has been candid that Davis still has some of those issues. I wish we still had BBD, but I also see his significant faults. You have to get over this anger about Davis, man. He's not here anymore just like Perk isn't here. Try to pull for the team we have now. You might actually like some things about this team.
     
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    Re: game 5 thread: hawks-celts, I blame this loss on PETEY!

    In Response to Re: game 5 thread: hawks-celts, I blame this loss on PETEY!:
    [QUOTE]Bass was terrible again.  Deer in the headlughts syndrome when he has possession of the ball unless its an open jumper. Defensively a nightmare. Watching him closely you will realize he is lost much of the time on both sides of the court. Rondo... I posted yesterday, dont get too excited over his great game 4.. voila. He played a decent 1/2 a game.... and i just knew when me made that steal, it was gonna be all Rondo for the winning shot... only we never got one.  Ive noticed at the end of quarters (usually) he will pound and pound the ball... no movememtn and then be "forced" into a have...which I believe is an excuse he looks for to take a no pressure...I had no choice but to heave a hero shot.
    Posted by Karllost[/QUOTE]

     I think you hit the nail squarely on the head!!
     
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    Re: game 5 hawks-celts thread: I blame this loss on PETEY til he starts Thursday's thread on time per usual and gets us rolli...

    No players are perfect, me and many others here often make the mistake of harshly judging them on the imperfections. So given that, I reject the critism of Rondo, which I used to engage in to be honest and transparent, because overall I think he is playing great and stepping up (all the time no, but overall yes). Like Ray did last night, like Paul did in game 2. Like KG has done so many times I've lost count. But Bass, he is shrinking, he's playing scared, or thinking, or not thinking, or the pace of the playoffs is exposing him; whatever  it is, he's not stepping up, he's falling behind. I think Doc is a master of getting the most out of his players most of the time, and I hope he and the guys can help Bass get back on track. When he's right Bass is a contributor, hits 18' jumpers and defends OK. But he has missed shots (tight, choking) and a lot of defensive rotations (head not in the game). He just doesn't look comfortable or in the flow. Hope he can get back on track in game 6. Go Celtics!
     
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    Re: game 5 thread: hawks-celts, I blame this loss on PETEY!

    In Response to Re: game 5 thread: hawks-celts, I blame this loss on PETEY!:
    [QUOTE]In response to "Re: game 5 thread: hawks-celts, I blame this loss on PETEY!": Wow, Acie. With all that anger, it's a wonder you can even cheer for the Celtics. You don't like the Coach because he was down on your favorite player. You're down on the GM because he can't judge talent (despite their choices in developing Rondo, Perk, Bradley, BBD, Gomes, Jefferson, etc). You make plenty of good points about the benefits Davis brought to this team as well as good points about Bass's rebounding and defensive deficiencies. Actually, I agree with the fact that fans go overboard in their criticism of Davis. We are now missing what he brought. Likewise, you go overboard, however, in your inability to recognize that Davis's mistakes last year were only partially due to injury. His attitude and decisions were a cancer in that he really thought he was better than he was and took shots outside the offensive flow. I liked him up to that point and I don't blame Doc for being candid with the press about BBD, just as VanGundy has been candid that Davis still has some of those issues. I wish we still had BBD, but I also see his significant faults. You have to get over this anger about Davis, man. He's not here anymore just like Perk isn't here. Try to pull for the team we have now. You might actually like some things about this team.
    Posted by Celtsfan4life[/QUOTE]+1. comrad acie must have lost his way. didnt realize he had this much anger and pain in him. seriously, to take shots at doc is simply ridiculous. i would think that for doc to exclusively go after bbd when he has never ever done it before says a lot about bbd. bbd was alll about bbd, thinks he is much better than he is. as the guys on nba tv kept repeating last night, if bbd is your primary option or second best player you are not a team going far in anything. bbd thinks he is charles barkley being held back. i will defer to doc when it comes to bbd. he knows better than me or anyone else on this board as to what his personnel is. bbbd's issue wasnt necessarily his injury, it was his ATTITUDE and self-image.
     
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    Re: game 5 thread: hawks-celts, I blame this loss on PETEY!

    In Response to Re: game 5 thread: hawks-celts, I blame this loss on PETEY!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: game 5 thread: hawks-celts, I blame this loss on PETEY! :   but i know, davis was wicked fat, and never had an injury last year, and doc didn't ride him out of town mentally like sea biscuit.  and brandon's a "great athlete", we'll just never mind the fact that he doesn't play defense like one. Posted by aciemvp[/QUOTE] I don't buy that he is fat and slowed down because of weight. He energized the Magic much more than D. Howard. I don't have the stats to compare them but I bet he's scored more & had more rebounds than Bass but the most important thing is, I believe, and something missing from Bass, he's a much better defender!
    Posted by mandobello[/QUOTE]

    i was being entirely sarcastic in saying all of the above- it's been the "company line" given to me about the bass vs. davis trade off (self inflicted gunshot wound to our help defense system).

    and you're correct- i watched per minute stats all year long on bass vs. davis this year, while comparing bass' and davis' prior year per minute stats.  the queer thing about bass is that he has NEVER performed up to his per minute poitns and rebounds SINCE his breakout year in dallas when he averaged less than 20 minutes per game and 8 rebounds.

    remember when he was so "promising"?  well he wasn't or DAL or ORL would have wanted to keep him.  his undoing is his defense and his under-perfomance on rebounding.  to end the year, per 32 minutes- which is waht bass played, he slightly outscored davis per 32 minutes played (scaling up davis' numbers to 32 so it's an even comparison), but davis the "fat" and "poor" rebounder (that's all i heard about last year!) out rebounded bass by at least 1.4 rebounds per 32 minutes played this year.

    but remember, the people will tell you brandon is a dynamite athlete.  and superficially he is.  but unfortunately he doesn't have a scintilla of the basketball IQ that davis did, can't play defense, pass or handle the ball, about equal outside shooting and davis with a huge example on executing post up moves- davis' game was growing at a rapid pace in low post moves that were viable.

    and you see that as soon as he got minutes and ORL decided to stop puking up 40 three's a night and davis got some of the offensive spotlight, he's got plenty of game and is even an improved offensive player despite having what anyone would say was a below average year overall.

    davis wiped his rear with 7-2 roy hibbert in the pacers series despite almost nobody else on the magic showing up to play- hibbert should be embarrassed about it.  when was the last time bass could even play solid D on a 6-9 guy let alone a 7-2 supposedly ascending-to-near-greatness center like hibbert?
     
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    Re: game 5 thread: hawks-celts, I blame this loss on PETEY!

    In Response to Re: game 5 thread: hawks-celts, I blame this loss on PETEY!:
    [QUOTE]In response to "Re: game 5 thread: hawks-celts, I blame this loss on PETEY!": Wow, Acie. With all that anger, it's a wonder you can even cheer for the Celtics. You don't like the Coach because he was down on your favorite player. You're down on the GM because he can't judge talent (despite their choices in developing Rondo, Perk, Bradley, BBD, Gomes, Jefferson, etc). You make plenty of good points about the benefits Davis brought to this team as well as good points about Bass's rebounding and defensive deficiencies. Actually, I agree with the fact that fans go overboard in their criticism of Davis. We are now missing what he brought. Likewise, you go overboard, however, in your inability to recognize that Davis's mistakes last year were only partially due to injury. His attitude and decisions were a cancer in that he really thought he was better than he was and took shots outside the offensive flow. I liked him up to that point and I don't blame Doc for being candid with the press about BBD, just as VanGundy has been candid that Davis still has some of those issues. I wish we still had BBD, but I also see his significant faults. You have to get over this anger about Davis, man. He's not here anymore just like Perk isn't here. Try to pull for the team we have now. You might actually like some things about this team.
    Posted by Celtsfan4life[/QUOTE]

    Crap, crap and more crap.  If Davis is a cancer then how did he manage to carry ORL, be the only one to show up every game in the playoffs?  Last year, Davis was counted on to be THE scoring in the second unit becuase wise danny shipped house and then nate robinson out of town in favor of...  no scoring guys off the bench.  delonte was injured most of the time and spotty even when he was in there.

    what do you think davis' issues were this year in ORL?  do you think it was maddening to go from mentorship by KG to a bimbo like duh-white howard RUINING a team that should have been a serious competitor this year?  van grumby was given free reign to discuss the davis issue all he wanted.  and 1) he was a professional about it and kept things in house that should have been in house but 2) if he didn't like davis and think he didn't have something to give that team OR if davis had made a personal attack on van gundy, that presser stan gave would not have been so davis-friendly.

    i guaran-dam-tee you that anyone who is very competitive going from 3 HOF veterans in boston to the d. howard contract year show in ORL would have gotten really upset too as it dragged on all season long and ruined a perfectly decent team.

    if davis was indeed a cancer to this team, instead of a blue collar hustle guy who was probably leaned on too much to provide scoring in a CRAPPY second unit slapped together by danny, then why hasn't any of the big 3 ever said a disparaging word about him?  not a tweet a twit, a sideways comment about it, hmm?  the sad truth is they would throw a party for him to come back to this team and mop the floor taking charges and shore up this horrendous debacle of a help defense system that we have right now with the WRONG personnel and the wrong "star" level folks playing the wrong positions becuase of personnel moves made and coaching disasters committed by doc rivers.

    you say what about the "development" of rondo, davis, gomes?  rondo "developed" into a 57% free throw shooter last year, 59% this year, never better than his rookie year career high of 64%?  that's not development.

    and development matters not when you export it.  i forget what we got for gomes- maybe 1/20 share in KG?  and "developing" davis just to let doc rivers go daddy dearest on him and run him out of town in favor of an inferior player.... amounts to de-volution of the team and developing Davis for the benefit of the ORL magic.  frankly davis was a self developer who was still improving his game.

    but we all know doc's thing with him.  couldn't stand him.

    just answer me one thing- why did doc never say word one about rasheed wallace that year sheed showed up and KILLED our team coming off the bench?  hell, doc never even reduced his minutes- every night it was a stink-a-thon with sheed evaporating our leads lollygagging around and shooting 37% from the field.  wasn't that worth a presser for doc?
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from aciemvp. Show aciemvp's posts

    Re: game 5 thread: hawks-celts, I blame this loss on PETEY!

    In Response to Re: game 5 thread: hawks-celts, I blame this loss on PETEY!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: game 5 thread: hawks-celts, I blame this loss on PETEY! : +1. comrad acie must have lost his way. didnt realize he had this much anger and pain in him. seriously, to take shots at doc is simply ridiculous. i would think that for doc to exclusively go after bbd when he has never ever done it before says a lot about bbd. bbd was alll about bbd, thinks he is much better than he is. as the guys on nba tv kept repeating last night, if bbd is your primary option or second best player you are not a team going far in anything. bbd thinks he is charles barkley being held back. i will defer to doc when it comes to bbd. he knows better than me or anyone else on this board as to what his personnel is. bbbd's issue wasnt necessarily his injury, it was his ATTITUDE and self-image.
    Posted by COMMUNIST-CONTRARIAN[/QUOTE]

    you're gladly deferring to a life long failure as far as dealing with young talent.  it's why he was canned from orlando, it's why our early doc years were so..... gross.  give him 3 HOFs who can coach themselves to the cup and he's suddenly a great coach and not a 37% winning record dipstick.  i mean honestly.

    so if you defer to doc then why hasn't doc addressed the weak spots on his team?  rondo shooting 55% free throws in the playoffs and squarely avoided ANY scoring role in the fourth quarter last night and when your table-setter pigeon holes himself like that, it gets really predictable and VERY EASY for the opponent to figure out what your'e doing, no? 

    but let's just take a bite sized piece of rondo.  six years now and he's in the 50%'s for FT.  never any pressure to improve.  it's never mattered because rondo could shoot 15% free throws and he'd still get his minutes and contract.  but you defer to doc and danny.  good for you.

    what about bass?  his rebounding this year has been lackluster.  his defense has been putrid all year long and now he looks especially bad in the spot light of more half court slow down ball where he has these urges to suddenly make very un-wise decisions on switches, IN ADDITION to his uncanny ability to get lost on screens like a fish into a net and when he's not doing that he just plain loses sight of his man AND the ball at the same time and suddenly there's an open shot, layup or dunk. 

    i mean this is really bad defense!!  but you defer to doc.  you know what?  i didn't see bass' defense get any better as the year went on.  but you defer to doc.  in fact, i've never seen bass' defense WORSE than it has been in this series. 

    yet somehow you have to be  a good little fan and rain down adulation upon doc and brandon for what amounts to terrible results at the 4 position this year, or else you are not a "real" fan.  well, hate to say it, but real fans think for themselves and know a crock of junk when they see it. 

    whatever davis' "issues" were last year, he drew a charge a game, held our help defense system together and put up the same stats as bass did.  and he moppe dup minutes at the 5 position like crazy.  give him some support and/or competent coaching to "manage" his personality or whatever wasn't going right- that's what a coach is supposed to do. 

    nba tv announcer opinions are like A holes, everyone has one.  certainly, not team that features davis is going to be going anywhere, but wasn't it odd that davis was the only one who showed up for ORL and markedly outplayed roy hibbert, a 7-2 supposedly rising star center in the league?  i mean davis is good for something, right?  i NEVER ever said he was anything beyond a very nice 6th man guy to have around.  the fact that the team had a terrible scoring second unit last year and davis was asked to do too much scoring and then labeled as greedy last year when he tried to fill that role is a joke. 

    frankly, it's doc rivers' political game he played to run davis out of town.  he didn't support davis when he was down, he shat upon him.  on the other hand he has supported bass all year long unconditionally despite his lousy defense and sub mediocre rebounding.  different coaching for different folks i guess.  way to go doc.  i really love this trade, it's doing us wonders.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from guyfromtex. Show guyfromtex's posts

    Re: game 5 hawks-celts thread: I blame this loss on PETEY til he starts Thursday's thread on time per usual and gets us rolli...

    The Celtics lost because Doc used Hollins over Stiemsma. I hope that he learned from his mistake...
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from COMMUNIST-CONTRARIAN. Show COMMUNIST-CONTRARIAN's posts

    Re: game 5 thread: hawks-celts, I blame this loss on PETEY!

    In Response to Re: game 5 thread: hawks-celts, I blame this loss on PETEY!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: game 5 thread: hawks-celts, I blame this loss on PETEY! : you're gladly deferring to a life long failure as far as dealing with young talent.  it's why he was canned from orlando, it's why our early doc years were so..... gross.  give him 3 HOFs who can coach themselves to the cup and he's suddenly a great coach and not a 37% winning record dipstick.  i mean Posted by aciemvp[/QUOTE]acie, i believe AB is a young guy and he's starting over the HOF'r ray allen. old guys win in the nba, sorry man.. rondo was a second year guy when doc won a ring with him. did rr not start or play for most of his rook year? should jj play over bass? should moore play over ray? name one guy who has ever left doc and become BETTER than options left behind? again, i like bbd, but its far from clear that he's better than bass.

    the point is doc, like belichick, focuses on working around someone's weaknesses not just their strengths. bass does not get as many charges and is not as great a help defender but he's BETTER at one on one defense. that has its place. in any case acie, bbd is home right now and bass is a center piece for a potential championship team. bbd and kg simply would not have worked as well as kg and bass. about floor spacing, bbd could never get the same offensive respect. again, bbd is better with the magic. perhaps DH  and bbd would have been better together, but with our offense its best with BASS! in any case, most of us have moved on!
     

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