Game Thread: Celtics vs Spurs

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    Re: Game Thread: Celtics vs Spurs

    In response to Fiercest34's comment:
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    In response to VeniceSox's comment:
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    70 percent overall but the starting five is the same except for one so whats the problem there?  That simple enough?

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    But the starting 5 will play A LOT with the new guys. You didn't see KG give Lee a pick and it resulted in a turnover because KG thought Lee was going to shoot and Lee thought KG was going to pop.

    Last season the Celts only allowed 89.3 ppg. This season the Celts are allowing 99.3 ppg.

    What changed?

    Same coach and basically same starting 5, right?

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    Thats my point.... almost the same starting 5 so the learning curve should be next to nothing....part of the problem imo is that KG plays 5 mins and then sits... he is the core of that defense and the less he plays the more defensive problems they have

     
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    Re: Game Thread: Celtics vs Spurs

    In response to Fiercest34's comment:
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    In response to VeniceSox's comment:
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    70 percent overall but the starting five is the same except for one so whats the problem there?  That simple enough?

    [/QUOTE]

    But the starting 5 will play A LOT with the new guys. You didn't see KG give Lee a pick and it resulted in a turnover because KG thought Lee was going to shoot and Lee thought KG was going to pop.

    Last season the Celts only allowed 89.3 ppg. This season the Celts are allowing 99.3 ppg.

    What changed?

    Same coach and basically same starting 5, right?

    [/QUOTE]


    Thats my point.... almost the same starting 5 so the learning curve should be next to nothing....part of the problem imo is that KG plays 5 mins and then sits... he is the core of that defense and the less he plays the more defensive problems they have

     
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    Re: Game Thread: Celtics vs Spurs

    In response to puddinpuddin's comment:
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    SA had 26 dimes with 5 players having 3 or more assists.

    Cs had 21 dimes with only 1 player having 3 or more assists.

    Cs need much better ball movement...

    Pud

    [/QUOTE]


     With Mr. pound the clock away because I can't play any other style leading the charge, that's not very likely go to happen.

     
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    Re: Game Thread: Celtics vs Spurs

    Sorry, but this whole:"the team is still new thing" being the main reason to why the Celts are struggle just doesn't hold up in my opinion.  Most of the new guys that are suppose to play a vital role in the Celts success are veteran players...on top of that they had pre season and plenty of games under their belt by now to alteast show better chemistry, but it hasn't happen, in fact, it's regressing the other way, and Doc seems to be pulling at straws to try to fix it. 

    NoT only that, but the starting five, with the supposingly upgrade on defense at off guard (not), should atleast be playing better defense, they gave up more points than the bench tonight...WAS'UP with THAT!!!  That's just inexcusable.

    Besides, look at 2008; that group was completely a new team all together, and they rocketed out of the starting line; how come no one called that a rebuilding year?   Let's face it, this team is letting us down because we all picked them to be the only true contender to the Heats; now the celtics will be lucky if they make the playoffs the way this is going.

     
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    Re: Game Thread: Celtics vs Spurs

    In response to Fiercest34's comment:
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    In response to futbal's comment:
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    Baby 14 boards in 27 minutes in tonight's Orlando win. The Celtics had 25 rebounds total, the whole team. The team desperately needs some rebounding help.

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    That's been the problem for 3 seasons now. Nothing new.

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    I said "desperation" which is worse than a problem, or weakness.  The team is down nearly 4 defensive rebounds/game from last year; they are desperately weak now on the boards.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from OneOnOne. Show OneOnOne's posts

    Re: Game Thread: Celtics vs Spurs

    In response to Fiercest34's comment:
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    In response to VeniceSox's comment:
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    Thats my point.... almost the same starting 5 so the learning curve should be next to nothing....part of the problem imo is that KG plays 5 mins and then sits... he is the core of that defense and the less he plays the more defensive problems they have

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    That's easier said than done. New players need time to learn the system and develop chemistry with their new teammates.

    Of course KG will sit a lot, he's old! He's 36 years old. If Doc plays him a lot then he will just get injured.

    Also, that's what I mean when the starters are not playing, the new players are still learning to play the Celtic way.

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    Chemistry and playing together turns them into a great team.  It shouldn't make that much difference in day to day games.  Why is NY playing so well.  They have nearly a new team.  If the Celtic way is that complicated then they need to junk it and come up with something new.  Our defense has steadily gotten worse over the years and age plays a part of it with PP an KG.  All the other guys are  not that old.  Besides our offense isn't that bad.  Its as plain as black and white.  Rebounding and defense.  Doc can't continue to do the same thing game in and game out and expect different results.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from OneOnOne. Show OneOnOne's posts

    Re: Game Thread: Celtics vs Spurs

    In response to darkman20's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Sorry, but this whole:"the team is still new thing" being the main reason to why the Celts are struggle just doesn't hold up in my opinion.  Most of the new guys that are suppose to play a vital role in the Celts success are veteran players...on top of that they had pre season and plenty of games under their belt by now to alteast show better chemistry, but it hasn't happen, in fact, it's regressing the other way, and Doc seems to be pulling at straws to try to fix it. 

    NoT only that, but the starting five, with the supposingly upgrade on defense at off guard (not), should atleast be playing better defense, they gave up more points than the bench tonight...WAS'UP with THAT!!!  That's just inexcusable.

    Besides, look at 2008; that group was completely a new team all together, and they rocketed out of the starting line; how come no one called that a rebuilding year?   Let's face it, this team is letting us down because we all picked them to be the only true contender to the Heats; now the celtics will be lucky if they make the playoffs the way this is going.

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    First off i agree with a lot of your post.  NY doesn't seem to be having problems.  They are playing defense for one.  New players not gelling is not a good excuse for me either.  I wish we would play a zone,  at least then they would have to hit jump shots.  I am tired of watching layup lines.  Doc needs to go big and start giving Wilcox more time.  Actually I would start him.  The lineups and minutes alloted now, our rebounding will not get better.  As well as Rondo played on offense last night he played just as bad on defense.  Twice I watched him allow Parker to go in for a uncontested layup and Rondo didn't even have a pick set on him.  He then looked at KG, like "why didn't you stop  him?"   

    I have often ragged on Kome being on the all defensive team because he wasn't that good on defense, yet he makes the team.  Rondo is the same.  He is our worst on the ball defender game in and game out.  He forces our other guys to help out and then their guy scores.  We need Bradley back in the worst way.  

     
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    Re: Game Thread: Celtics vs Spurs

    In response to Fiercest34's comment:
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    In response to Celtsfan4life's comment:
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    In response to breaktime's comment:
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    No bench, no boards, and the invisible man is  showing up again.

    I posted that these  3 games (Detroit, San Antonio, and Oklahoma) would serve as a good early season reality check for the team.  Guess what?  So far we're getting an F.

    Only good thing about tonites loss is the amusement  I'll get from reading several posters inane remarks about how Rondo was  the reason  we lost.

     

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    Come on, man.  Read the posts.   Rondo was great offensively but the posts talk about Rondo being the start of the defensive problems and he is.   Take your rose colored glasses off and be objective.  Rondo is as bad defensively as he is good offensively and that does hurt one of our two big problems......Defense and rebounding!

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    Last season I was upset at Rondo. But give credit where credit is due. Rondo was the only bright spot tonight.

    Tony Parker does what he does to every PG in the league. Not just Rondo.

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    Rondo was not a bright spot.  His man dominated the game. Yea Rondo played great with the ball.  He played horrible without it.  That was Parkers season high BTW.  I am not even sure we had a bright spot last night.  Rondo kind of played Parker even at the best. Against Paul last game Parker had 11 point and 6 assists. Don't get me wrong I know Parker is a good player,  as I have said I live in Texas and I watch all the Texas teams probably more than anyone else around here does.  Even Felton from NY had a great game against Parker.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from OneOnOne. Show OneOnOne's posts

    Re: Game Thread: Celtics vs Spurs

    In response to concord27's comment:
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    In response to OneOnOne's comment:
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    In response to Celtsfan4life's comment:
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    In response to OneOnOne's comment:
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    In response to Celtsfan4life's comment:
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    Way to carry the team, Rondo.  Great play.   Unfortunately, we can't have a hero game from Rondo every night.  The whole team needs to step up better.  Where's Pierce, Green, Bass, etc.

     

    It was pretty much the Rondo show in the 4th.  Don't think Green played much the 4th.  Don't think Pierce touched the ball but twice in the 4th.  Bass was our best rebounder from the starters.  We can't have it both ways,  Rondo scoring most of the points because he gets the shots.  That means other guys aren't getting shots.   I don't know what the solution is.  Green is never going to do anything in 16 minutes a game.  

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    I agree about Green.  I am however worried about him.  He seems lost and unable to get in the flow.  He needs to play over 25 minutes every game.  

     

    The thing that bothered me tonight and in other games is Terry not getting shots in the fourth period. Tonight he had 12 points in the first half.  And after that he had one shot in the second half. He is a big time clutch player.  I envisioned him adding to our offense late in crunch time and he is not getting enough shots.

    Concord,  

    I agree.  If you go back and look at the possesions in the 4th quarter  it was pretty much the Rondo show. He had the ball 90% of the time.  He played great and we scored I think 26 pts.  But how do you expect anyone else to do anything if they don't get touches. Terry and PP didn't get the touches in the 4th quarter.   I don't think that is what cost us the game.  RR played did carry us in the 4th and thats OK.  Only problem is our defense, (starting with Rondo's)  was absolutely horrible.  We scored a 100  pts.  That is good enough to win.

     
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    Re: Game Thread: Celtics vs Spurs

    In response to puddinpuddin's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    SA had 26 dimes with 5 players having 3 or more assists.

    Cs had 21 dimes with only 1 player having 3 or more assists.

    Cs need much better ball movement in addition to rebounding.

    Pud

    [/QUOTE]

    I finally agree with you on something.

     
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    Re: Game Thread: Celtics vs Spurs

    I believe I have pointed that out several times.  No one said it was Rondo's fault.  Simply he played well offensively and bad defensively.  No defense and no boards is a bad recipe.

     
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    Re: Game Thread: Celtics vs Spurs

    In response to Fiercest34's comment:
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    OneOnOne

    Why NY is doing well?

    Because the coach simplified the offense. Give it to Melo and let him make plays.

    Also, Melo loves to bang in the paint, it opens their shooters. 

    The Celts are a jump shooting team. Every NBA team knows the Celts will not get many points in the paint. So teams are playing the Celts for the outside shot. In other words, the Celtic offense has become predictable.

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    They are doing well because they have a inside presence with Chandler and are playing better defense than NY has ever played.  Kidd is a part of that, and even Sheed to some extent.  Scoring hasn't been our problem for the most part.  Our problems are plain and simple, rebounding and defense.

     
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    Re: Game Thread: Celtics vs Spurs

    In response to Fiercest34's comment:
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    In response to OneOnOne's comment:
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    I believe I have pointed that out several times.  No one said it was Rondo's fault.  Simply he played well offensively and bad defensively.  No defense and no boards is a bad recipe.

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    But for 3 years now we already know that Rondo plays matador defense. I mean it's a given that Rondo plays bad 1 on 1 defense. So it's nothing new.

    No boards because KG is playing with Bass. The Celts need an upgrade over Bass. Hope Ainge can pull it off.

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    Bradley will help to some extent.  Lee is good on defense, 1/1, but isn't on the team defense page yet.  You know Rondo on defense is the first line.  If he plays like a matador it breaks down the entire defense.  Actually it makes his team mate look bad when it is really his fault.  Heck that is why I would just as soon play a zone. The reason we could survive early in Rondo's career is we had Perk laying down the smack in the middle and KG helping out.  We were tough.    We aren't tough anymore.

     
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  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from darkman20. Show darkman20's posts

    Re: Game Thread: Celtics vs Spurs

    In response to Fiercest34's comment:
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    In response to OneOnOne's comment:
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    Bradley will help to some extent.  Lee is good on defense, 1/1, but isn't on the team defense page yet.  You know Rondo on defense is the first line.  If he plays like a matador it breaks down the entire defense.  Actually it makes his team mate look bad when it is really his fault.  Heck that is why I would just as soon play a zone. The reason we could survive early in Rondo's career is we had Perk laying down the smack in the middle and KG helping out.  We were tough.    We aren't tough anymore.

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    I agree 100%.

    Now you know why I wanted Rondo traded last season. He wasn't fundamentally sound last season. 

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    Yep.  Rondo should have been traded long ago.   If the Celts have had half a decent pg that could shoot, they'd probaby have another banner.  

    The offense is indeed predictable because rondo can't be effective without the ball, and without the ball on offense, he's practically useless.  On defense he gambles to much and plays lazy defense, which causes other defenders to be out of their positions.

    2008 = less Rondo= Championshiop.

    Conclusion: Trade Rondo.

     

     

     
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    Re: Game Thread: Celtics vs Spurs

    In response to darkman20's comment:
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    In response to Fiercest34's comment:
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    In response to OneOnOne's comment:
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    Bradley will help to some extent.  Lee is good on defense, 1/1, but isn't on the team defense page yet.  You know Rondo on defense is the first line.  If he plays like a matador it breaks down the entire defense.  Actually it makes his team mate look bad when it is really his fault.  Heck that is why I would just as soon play a zone. The reason we could survive early in Rondo's career is we had Perk laying down the smack in the middle and KG helping out.  We were tough.    We aren't tough anymore.

    [/QUOTE]

    I agree 100%.

    Now you know why I wanted Rondo traded last season. He wasn't fundamentally sound last season. 

    [/QUOTE]

    Yep.  Rondo should have been traded long ago.   If the Celts have had half a decent pg that could shoot, they'd probaby have another banner.  

    The offense is indeed predictable because rondo can't be effective without the ball, and without the ball on offense, he's practically useless.  On defense he gambles to much and plays lazy defense, which causes other defenders to be out of their positions.

    2008 = less Rondo= Championshiop.

    Conclusion: Trade Rondo.

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    If you trade him you need to trade him for another pg, because there sure isn't anyone else on the team that can do the job.

     
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