Garnett and Pierce are probably coming back.

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from jtkl. Show jtkl's posts

    Garnett and Pierce are probably coming back.

    Just read a great couple of articles on the salary cap situation and basically, it seems that moving Garnett or Pierce is not something that helps much..

    To me the best option seemes to bring them back and hope Rondo, Sullinger, Green and Bradley improve enough to compensate for their decline and start the rebuild the following year. 

    Basically in a nutshell the logic works like this. Even if we get rid of both Pierce and KG Through waivers, retirement, or amnesting one of them and everything goes right like KG agrees to file retirement papers (he could forgo that and screw us badly)  The most we can realistically do is to get 27 million off the books and that is if EVERYTHING goes right. BUT That still leave a team salary of about 49 million. So realistically we could get a free agent in the 9 to 10 million range. Not enough to rebuild.

     

    My understanding is all of that looks better in the following year so the rebuild will probably be on the fly until then. 

     

     

     

     

     

     

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Eldunker. Show Eldunker's posts

    Re: Garnett and Pierce are probably coming back.

    You are forgetting the best option:  Trade.

    I actually would keep Garnett (for his leadership, continuity and he can still contribute) but trade Pierce for a younger contributor (like Bledsoe).  

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from jtkl. Show jtkl's posts

    Re: Garnett and Pierce are probably coming back.

    In response to Eldunker's comment:

     

    You are forgetting the best option:  Trade.

    I actually would keep Garnett (for his leadership, continuity and he can still contribute) but trade Pierce for a younger contributor (like Bledsoe).  

     



     

    Well trading is an option, but probably not a good one.  Salaries have to match. So if we take a cheap player like Bledsoe (cheap salary wise)  for an expensive player like Pierce, We'd have to take a whole lot of bad contracts most likely as well.

     

    Not to mention in either case KG or Pierce you are asking teams to part with good young talent for two players 35+ one who had the worst playoffs of his career. Not likely to get anything good in return. 

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Louisio. Show Louisio's posts

    Re: Garnett and Pierce are probably coming back.

    In response to jtkl's comment:

     

    Just read a great couple of articles on the salary cap situation and basically, it seems that moving Garnett or Pierce is not something that helps much..

    To me the best option seemes to bring them back and hope Rondo, Sullinger, Green and Bradley improve enough to compensate for their decline and start the rebuild the following year. 

    Basically in a nutshell the logic works like this. Even if we get rid of both Pierce and KG Through waivers, retirement, or amnesting one of them and everything goes right like KG agrees to file retirement papers (he could forgo that and screw us badly)  The most we can realistically do is to get 27 million off the books and that is if EVERYTHING goes right. BUT That still leave a team salary of about 49 million. So realistically we could get a free agent in the 9 to 10 million range. Not enough to rebuild.

    My understanding is all of that looks better in the following year so the rebuild will probably be on the fly until then. 

     



    Sure your math's right? My back of the envelope math gets the C's salary down to about $46 million, which, depending on the new cap, might give them $15 million or so. I think that's enough to sign Al Jefferson, were they so inclined.

     

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from jtkl. Show jtkl's posts

    Re: Garnett and Pierce are probably coming back.

    In response to Louisio's comment:

     

    In response to jtkl's comment:

     

    Just read a great couple of articles on the salary cap situation and basically, it seems that moving Garnett or Pierce is not something that helps much..

    To me the best option seemes to bring them back and hope Rondo, Sullinger, Green and Bradley improve enough to compensate for their decline and start the rebuild the following year. 

    Basically in a nutshell the logic works like this. Even if we get rid of both Pierce and KG Through waivers, retirement, or amnesting one of them and everything goes right like KG agrees to file retirement papers (he could forgo that and screw us badly)  The most we can realistically do is to get 27 million off the books and that is if EVERYTHING goes right. BUT That still leave a team salary of about 49 million. So realistically we could get a free agent in the 9 to 10 million range. Not enough to rebuild.

    My understanding is all of that looks better in the following year so the rebuild will probably be on the fly until then. 

     



    Sure your math's right? My back of the envelope math gets the C's salary down to about $46 million, which, depending on the new cap, might give them $15 million or so. I think that's enough to sign Al Jefferson, were they so inclined.

     

     



    I could be wrong. I went with the math done for me at Red's army. 

     

    here are the articles:

    http://redsarmy.com/2013/05/07/what-do-we-do-with-kevin-garnett/

    http://redsarmy.com/2013/05/06/what-do-we-do-with-paul-pierce/

     

     

    if we had 12-15 million that would be enough for Big Al. But the way I read those articles a whole lot has to go right to get the most off the books. It made it seem pretty unlikely to me. 

    But yes assuming their math is wrong and assuming everything goes right with KG and Pierce despite all the varibles, a player like Jefferson might be in play. 

     

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from jtkl. Show jtkl's posts

    Re: Garnett and Pierce are probably coming back.

    Also, to be clear. I'm not saying they are 100% coming back. I just think, odds are a little greater they are than not. 

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from GregCelts. Show GregCelts's posts

    Re: Garnett and Pierce are probably coming back.

    Garnett and Pierce want to come back, BUT they know that Ainge tried to trade both at the trade deadline.  He will try again on draft night and at the next trade deadline.  They don't want to retire and should not since they can still win a title as 2nd, 3rd or 4th option of a great team. 

    Danny is a gambler and will be very active this summer.  He has to.  He can trade Pierce's attractive contract for assets.  He can convince Garnett to go to the Clipps or the Nets.  He still has the amnesty provision that he could use to make room for Big Al.  He has tradable assets like Avery Bradley or Jeff Green to move up in the draft.  There is a lot he can do. 

     

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from kaktug. Show kaktug's posts

    Re: Garnett and Pierce are probably coming back.

    the contracts that actually hurt us the most are the terry/bass/lee contracts. those make the rebuild tough. the only one who looks tradeable right now is bass. based on playoff performance, i doubt anyone would be much interested in terry or lee, especially terry.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Louisio. Show Louisio's posts

    Re: Garnett and Pierce are probably coming back.

    In response to jtkl's comment:

    In response to Louisio's comment:

     

    In response to jtkl's comment:

     

    Just read a great couple of articles on the salary cap situation and basically, it seems that moving Garnett or Pierce is not something that helps much..

    To me the best option seemes to bring them back and hope Rondo, Sullinger, Green and Bradley improve enough to compensate for their decline and start the rebuild the following year. 

    Basically in a nutshell the logic works like this. Even if we get rid of both Pierce and KG Through waivers, retirement, or amnesting one of them and everything goes right like KG agrees to file retirement papers (he could forgo that and screw us badly)  The most we can realistically do is to get 27 million off the books and that is if EVERYTHING goes right. BUT That still leave a team salary of about 49 million. So realistically we could get a free agent in the 9 to 10 million range. Not enough to rebuild.

    My understanding is all of that looks better in the following year so the rebuild will probably be on the fly until then. 

     



    Sure your math's right? My back of the envelope math gets the C's salary down to about $46 million, which, depending on the new cap, might give them $15 million or so. I think that's enough to sign Al Jefferson, were they so inclined.

     

     



    I could be wrong. I went with the math done for me at Red's army. 

     

    here are the articles:

    http://redsarmy.com/2013/05/07/what-do-we-do-with-kevin-garnett/

    http://redsarmy.com/2013/05/06/what-do-we-do-with-paul-pierce/

     

     

    if we had 12-15 million that would be enough for Big Al. But the way I read those articles a whole lot has to go right to get the most off the books. It made it seem pretty unlikely to me. 

    But yes assuming their math is wrong and assuming everything goes right with KG and Pierce despite all the varibles, a player like Jefferson might be in play. 

     



    Not sure if Big Al is a primary target of Ainge or not. But if so, the question of how much they'll need to get it done is obviously critical. I keep reading a figure of $15 million. But $12 million would be easier. Seems like it's never a buyer's market when it comes to fives and fours.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from jtkl. Show jtkl's posts

    Re: Garnett and Pierce are probably coming back.

    In response to Louisio's comment:

    In response to jtkl's comment:

     

    In response to Louisio's comment:

     

    In response to jtkl's comment:

     

    Just read a great couple of articles on the salary cap situation and basically, it seems that moving Garnett or Pierce is not something that helps much..

    To me the best option seemes to bring them back and hope Rondo, Sullinger, Green and Bradley improve enough to compensate for their decline and start the rebuild the following year. 

    Basically in a nutshell the logic works like this. Even if we get rid of both Pierce and KG Through waivers, retirement, or amnesting one of them and everything goes right like KG agrees to file retirement papers (he could forgo that and screw us badly)  The most we can realistically do is to get 27 million off the books and that is if EVERYTHING goes right. BUT That still leave a team salary of about 49 million. So realistically we could get a free agent in the 9 to 10 million range. Not enough to rebuild.

    My understanding is all of that looks better in the following year so the rebuild will probably be on the fly until then. 

     



    Sure your math's right? My back of the envelope math gets the C's salary down to about $46 million, which, depending on the new cap, might give them $15 million or so. I think that's enough to sign Al Jefferson, were they so inclined.

     

     



    I could be wrong. I went with the math done for me at Red's army. 

     

    here are the articles:

    http://redsarmy.com/2013/05/07/what-do-we-do-with-kevin-garnett/

    http://redsarmy.com/2013/05/06/what-do-we-do-with-paul-pierce/

     

     

    if we had 12-15 million that would be enough for Big Al. But the way I read those articles a whole lot has to go right to get the most off the books. It made it seem pretty unlikely to me. 

    But yes assuming their math is wrong and assuming everything goes right with KG and Pierce despite all the varibles, a player like Jefferson might be in play. 

     

     



    Not sure if Big Al is a primary target of Ainge or not. But if so, the question of how much they'll need to get it done is obviously critical. I keep reading a figure of $15 million. But $12 million would be easier. Seems like it's never a buyer's market when it comes to fives and fours.

     



    No Doubt. I mean didn't Kwame brown get 7-8 million a few years ago? 

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from jtkl. Show jtkl's posts

    Re: Garnett and Pierce are probably coming back.

    In response to GregCelts' comment:

    Garnett and Pierce want to come back, BUT they know that Ainge tried to trade both at the trade deadline.  He will try again on draft night and at the next trade deadline.  They don't want to retire and should not since they can still win a title as 2nd, 3rd or 4th option of a great team. 

    Danny is a gambler and will be very active this summer.  He has to.  He can trade Pierce's attractive contract for assets.  He can convince Garnett to go to the Clipps or the Nets.  He still has the amnesty provision that he could use to make room for Big Al.  He has tradable assets like Avery Bradley or Jeff Green to move up in the draft.  There is a lot he can do. 

     



    I don't think Pierce's 15 million contract is going to be that attractive to many teams. Maybe you know something I don't but that is a lot of salary on the books for a 35+ player. 

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from R9R. Show R9R's posts

    Re: Garnett and Pierce are probably coming back.

    I think you guys are missing one key factor: Luxury tax.

    The Celtics have been over the cap, and over the "apron" for the last two years (since the new CBA agreement). If they are over it next year, they become eligable for 'repeater' penalties. This not only means they pay more than 1:1 on dollars over the apron, but they are limited in options like S&T. This is bad for a team looking to rebuild ... lets say ... creatively (avoid lottery).

     

    That is why, even though we can't go out and sign 20M in free agents, it is worth it to buy out Pierce and to let KG retire. Or, at the very least, trade KG, buy-out PP and then remain under the cap this year. 

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from jtkl. Show jtkl's posts

    Re: Garnett and Pierce are probably coming back.

    In response to R9R's comment:

    I think you guys are missing one key factor: Luxury tax.

    The Celtics have been over the cap, and over the "apron" for the last two years (since the new CBA agreement). If they are over it next year, they become eligable for 'repeater' penalties. This not only means they pay more than 1:1 on dollars over the apron, but they are limited in options like S&T. This is bad for a team looking to rebuild ... lets say ... creatively (avoid lottery).

     

    That is why, even though we can't go out and sign 20M in free agents, it is worth it to buy out Pierce and to let KG retire. Or, at the very least, trade KG, buy-out PP and then remain under the cap this year. 



    Well, it's a big component. Do you know how much the bill would be over? I understand we are about 5 million over. That might be easier to shed elsewhere. 

     

     
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  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from jtkl. Show jtkl's posts

    Re: Garnett and Pierce are probably coming back.

    In response to damfuno's comment:

    In response to jtkl's comment:

     

    Just read a great couple of articles on the salary cap situation and basically, it seems that moving Garnett or Pierce is not something that helps much..

    To me the best option seemes to bring them back and hope Rondo, Sullinger, Green and Bradley improve enough to compensate for their decline and start the rebuild the following year. 

    Basically in a nutshell the logic works like this. Even if we get rid of both Pierce and KG Through waivers, retirement, or amnesting one of them and everything goes right like KG agrees to file retirement papers (he could forgo that and screw us badly)  The most we can realistically do is to get 27 million off the books and that is if EVERYTHING goes right. BUT That still leave a team salary of about 49 million. So realistically we could get a free agent in the 9 to 10 million range. Not enough to rebuild.

     

    My understanding is all of that looks better in the following year so the rebuild will probably be on the fly until then. 

     

     and the full MLE.......which would give us 2 quality and hopefully young players

     

     

     

     

     




     



    Not going to get any earth shattering talent for the mid level. 

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from jtkl. Show jtkl's posts

    Re: Garnett and Pierce are probably coming back.

    In response to Kirk6's comment:

    Let Pierce go.

    Try to get KG to stay.

     



    He'll retire if Pierce goes. Better to keep them both one more year and then move on. 

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from breaktime. Show breaktime's posts

    Re: Garnett and Pierce are probably coming back.

    PP & KG are joined at the hip.  They either both stay or both go via a trade or retirement/contract buyout.

    Last year, resigning KG was DA's first priority.  This year it's what to do with PP and his 15M contract.  I agree he'll probably let things remain the same for another year.

    Wondering what target Doc will set for KG's minutes next year. 20?

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from SeemsToMe. Show SeemsToMe's posts

    Re: Garnett and Pierce are probably coming back.

    In response to jtkl's comment:

    In response to damfuno's comment:

     

    In response to jtkl's comment:

     

    Just read a great couple of articles on the salary cap situation and basically, it seems that moving Garnett or Pierce is not something that helps much..

    To me the best option seemes to bring them back and hope Rondo, Sullinger, Green and Bradley improve enough to compensate for their decline and start the rebuild the following year. 

    Basically in a nutshell the logic works like this. Even if we get rid of both Pierce and KG Through waivers, retirement, or amnesting one of them and everything goes right like KG agrees to file retirement papers (he could forgo that and screw us badly)  The most we can realistically do is to get 27 million off the books and that is if EVERYTHING goes right. BUT That still leave a team salary of about 49 million. So realistically we could get a free agent in the 9 to 10 million range. Not enough to rebuild.

     

    My understanding is all of that looks better in the following year so the rebuild will probably be on the fly until then. 

     

     and the full MLE.......which would give us 2 quality and hopefully young players

     

     

     

     

     




     

     



    Not going to get any earth shattering talent for the mid level. 

     



    If the Celtics payroll is in the 49 mil range and they use most or all of it to sign a player they won't have a mle to use.

    Seems

     
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