Garnett and Pierce should stay, period.

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from davidap. Show davidap's posts

    Garnett and Pierce should stay, period.

    Kevin Garnett is the soul of the Boston Celtics. He inspires his teammates. He motivates them. He tutors them. He's a leader. He actually wants to be a Celtic.

    He's also a very good player. He's obviously not what he was 10 years ago, or even back in '08, but he still remains one of the top defensive bigs in the league. He's still an elite player. A team needs elite players to win.

    Paul Pierce deserves to retire a Celtic. He's been with Boston his entire illustrious career. He's expressed a desire to be one of the few players in the modern era to spend his entire professional life with the same, single organization. Plus he's still a productive player. I care about loyalty. I believe in loyalty.

    I also care and believe in identity. The Celtics are more than just a uniform. They're an ideology, they're a personality. I don't understand all these fans who want to trade everybody off the roster. Do that and we're not really watching the Boston Celtics anymore. Some guys are just too integral to the chemistry and identity of a team to move them.

    I realize that the Celtics as currently constituted are not likely to contend for a championship any time soon. But that's true with or without Garnett and Pierce. Pawning them off for the sake of pawning them off (and that's what most of the fan trade proposals would lead to) does not necessarily accelerate the rebuilding into a champion. Bottoming out and rebuilding through the draft doesn't necessarily work either, as many perennial lottery teams can attest. It really comes down to money, astute draft selections (wherever a team may pick), and exploiting other teams' contractual mistakes (overpays and redundant acquisitions).

    Instead of trading everyone away and just as likely turning into the Charlotte Bobcats as the next Oklahoma City Thunder, I'd rather see Ainge build around what the Celtics already have, instead of wasting it. Garnett and Pierce are still talented enough to be the second and third guys on a championship team. Bradley, Green, Lee, and Terry are all championship-caliber role players. Sullinger appears to be headed in that direction as well, if he can return healthy from back surgery.

    As we've seen the last couple years, the Celtics are capable of beating any team in the league on a given night. They always seem to be just one or two players short. With a healthy Perkins in Game 7 of 2010, maybe they win the Finals. With a healthy Green and Bradley last year, they probably beat the Heat and maybe defeat the Thunder. It's foolish to ignore these realities and think that the team needs to take twenty steps back to go one step forward. Just take the step forward!


    My solution: trade Rondo and fodder (Bass, Wilcox, Collins, Barbosa, Melo, future picks) for a legitimately talented rebounding/shot-blocking big, and try to do it by this Thursday's deadline. The rumored Dwight Howard deal that the Lakers denied would turn the Celtics into instant title contenders. That's a risk worth taking. Worst case scenario, Howard leaves via free agency and the Celtics would have significant money to spend. I don't think that's such a terrible fallback plan. Doing nothing is the bigger problem. You have to take risks. You have to think big. The Celtics really can win the championship this year if they turn Rondo into something useful. Don't procrastinate. Do it now. Plenty of teams would love to take their chances on a talent like Rondo.

    A few possible scenarios:

    1. Rondo + Bass + Melo + two first round draft picks to the Lakers for Howard.

    The Lakers would make this deal because they desperately need a pass-first point guard to work with Kobe Bryant, Howard clearly won't be returning to LA anyway (I don't care what he says in public, it's obvious that he doesn't get along with the other Lakers), and this deal would allow the Lakers to recoup some much-needed draft picks that they've surrendered in recent trades. Due to the fact that Rondo is out for the rest of the season, there's no immediate redundancy issue at the PG position with Nash. The Lakers could move him in the off-season, maybe to the Raptors who wanted him last year.

    From the Celtics' perspective, this may seem like a huge price to pay for what might only be a couple months of an injury-hampered Howard, but how else would they ever realistically be able to obtain someone of his magnitude? Even hurt, Dwight Howard is a definite upgrade and game-changer. He would immediately vault the Celtics into championship contenion, this year. Pair him up with Garnett and he'd be rejuvenated.

    There's not a doubt in my mind that Howard would play well for the Celtics. What better chance would he have to prove Kobe Bryant and the Lakers wrong about him? What better way to rehabilitate his image heading into free agency than to win a championship? That's not going to happen for him in LA, and so at least on a subconscious level, he's not going to be as motivated to try as hard unless he gets traded this week. I also like the Celtics' chances of holding onto him if he wins a championship this year, or even just comes close to winning one. Most guys seem to like playing for Doc Rivers and alongside Garnett and Pierce. If Howard leaves, allocate the money elsewhere and/or pick something up in a sign-and-trade. It wouldn't be the worst thing in the world.

    2. Rondo + Bass + Melo + Barbosa + draft picks to the Suns for Gortat, Dragic, Dudley, and Scola.

    The Suns would make this deal because it helps them bottom out this year and secure a high draft pick, along with the Celtic picks, and a relatively young All-Star point guard. It also clears up a lot of cap space. Dragic and Dudley both have three years left on their contracts. Scola has two more years. Gortat wants out and Phoenix doesn't seem to like him very much for whatever reason.

    The Celtics would improve because they'd end up with the deepest roster in the league. The starting unit would consist of Gortat, Garnett, Pierce, Bradley, and Lee. Off the bench would be Scola, Green, Dudley, Dragic, and Terry. Wilcox and Collins round out the active roster to provide fouls. That would be a very dynamic, well-rounded team, and then on next year's squad, Sullinger gets inegrated back into the mix.

    3. Rondo + Bass + Melo + Barbosa to Utah for Jefferson and Williams.

    The Jazz get an All-Star point guard in Rondo and PF insurance in Bass for impending free agents Jefferson and Millsap. The Celtics fill their two needs of a rebounding big (Al Jefferson) and a scorer who could run the point (Mo Williams) without having to commit themselves long-term.

     

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from BCSP. Show BCSP's posts

    Re: Garnett and Pierce should stay, period.

    A different view:

    Chris Mannix on D&C: Kevin Garnett to the Clippers has legs 
    Click here to download
      Mon, 18 Feb 2013 |

    Chris Mannix, SI.com, says the trade rumor sending Kevin Garnett to the Clippers in exchange for Eric Bledsoe and DeAndre Jordan has weight. Chris also doesn't expect the Rajon Rondo-Dwight Howard trade talks to develop into anything more than just rumors.

     

     
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  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from SFBostonFan. Show SFBostonFan's posts

    Re: Garnett and Pierce should stay, period.

    davidap...I found your post very insightful and intriguing

    Ya know...getting rid of Rondo we stop the KG & PP trade rumors and let them retire in Green. We are 8-1 wittout Rondo & we are doing it without winning rebound battles but by playing great defense. Vs. the Bulls last week we got outrebounded 49-39 so they had 10 extra chances but we made them commit 22 turnovers which are extra chances for us(don't know how many we had) but we had to be + as both teams shot 37%.

    Ok, I realize Rondo is injured so someone taking him does it on the come as the Dodgers did last year taking injured Carl Crawford from the Red Sox.


    I think DW and then KG together in the paint and he is the best PF with great accuracy 5-15 feet out would be a great duo like Bynum & Gasol were.

     

    I am not in love with DeAndre Jordan as a Center as not a Cousins or Gortat even so I too like Rondo for Dwight Howard. He isn't playing well as in Orlando and has been injured but I feel it is because he's not happy in LA LA land and not too many enjoy playing with egomaniac Kobe. If we can be assured of a long term commitment from DH, I'd do it. Nice to get JJ Redick too somehow !!! We get Sully back, a PF but strong rebounder, keep Wicox too a good rebounder and have time to see if Melo develops.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from VeniceSox. Show VeniceSox's posts

    Re: Garnett and Pierce should stay, period.

    In response to davidap's comment:

    Kevin Garnett is the soul of the Boston Celtics. He inspires his teammates. He motivates them. He tutors them. He's a leader. He actually wants to be a Celtic.

    He's also a very good player. He's obviously not what he was 10 years ago, or even back in '08, but he still remains one of the top defensive bigs in the league. He's still an elite player. A team needs elite players to win.

    Paul Pierce deserves to retire a Celtic. He's been with Boston his entire illustrious career. He's expressed a desire to be one of the few players in the modern era to spend his entire professional life with the same, single organization. Plus he's still a productive player. I care about loyalty. I believe in loyalty.

    I also care and believe in identity. The Celtics are more than just a uniform. They're an ideology, they're a personality. I don't understand all these fans who want to trade everybody off the roster. Do that and we're not really watching the Boston Celtics anymore. Some guys are just too integral to the chemistry and identity of a team to move them.

    I realize that the Celtics as currently constituted are not likely to contend for a championship any time soon. But that's true with or without Garnett and Pierce. Pawning them off for the sake of pawning them off (and that's what most of the fan trade proposals would lead to) does not necessarily accelerate the rebuilding into a champion. Bottoming out and rebuilding through the draft doesn't necessarily work either, as many perennial lottery teams can attest. It really comes down to money, astute draft selections (wherever a team may pick), and exploiting other teams' contractual mistakes (overpays and redundant acquisitions).

    Instead of trading everyone away and just as likely turning into the Charlotte Bobcats as the next Oklahoma City Thunder, I'd rather see Ainge build around what the Celtics already have, instead of wasting it. Garnett and Pierce are still talented enough to be the second and third guys on a championship team. Bradley, Green, Lee, and Terry are all championship-caliber role players. Sullinger appears to be headed in that direction as well, if he can return healthy from back surgery.

    As we've seen the last couple years, the Celtics are capable of beating any team in the league on a given night. They always seem to be just one or two players short. With a healthy Perkins in Game 7 of 2010, maybe they win the Finals. With a healthy Green and Bradley last year, they probably beat the Heat and maybe defeat the Thunder. It's foolish to ignore these realities and think that the team needs to take twenty steps back to go one step forward. Just take the step forward!


    My solution: trade Rondo and fodder (Bass, Wilcox, Collins, Barbosa, Melo, future picks) for a legitimately talented rebounding/shot-blocking big, and try to do it by this Thursday's deadline. The rumored Dwight Howard deal that the Lakers denied would turn the Celtics into instant title contenders. That's a risk worth taking. Worst case scenario, Howard leaves via free agency and the Celtics would have significant money to spend. I don't think that's such a terrible fallback plan. Doing nothing is the bigger problem. You have to take risks. You have to think big. The Celtics really can win the championship this year if they turn Rondo into something useful. Don't procrastinate. Do it now. Plenty of teams would love to take their chances on a talent like Rondo.

    A few possible scenarios:

    1. Rondo + Bass + Melo + two first round draft picks to the Lakers for Howard.

    The Lakers would make this deal because they desperately need a pass-first point guard to work with Kobe Bryant, Howard clearly won't be returning to LA anyway (I don't care what he says in public, it's obvious that he doesn't get along with the other Lakers), and this deal would allow the Lakers to recoup some much-needed draft picks that they've surrendered in recent trades. Due to the fact that Rondo is out for the rest of the season, there's no immediate redundancy issue at the PG position with Nash. The Lakers could move him in the off-season, maybe to the Raptors who wanted him last year.

    From the Celtics' perspective, this may seem like a huge price to pay for what might only be a couple months of an injury-hampered Howard, but how else would they ever realistically be able to obtain someone of his magnitude? Even hurt, Dwight Howard is a definite upgrade and game-changer. He would immediately vault the Celtics into championship contenion, this year. Pair him up with Garnett and he'd be rejuvenated.

    There's not a doubt in my mind that Howard would play well for the Celtics. What better chance would he have to prove Kobe Bryant and the Lakers wrong about him? What better way to rehabilitate his image heading into free agency than to win a championship? That's not going to happen for him in LA, and so at least on a subconscious level, he's not going to be as motivated to try as hard unless he gets traded this week. I also like the Celtics' chances of holding onto him if he wins a championship this year, or even just comes close to winning one. Most guys seem to like playing for Doc Rivers and alongside Garnett and Pierce. If Howard leaves, allocate the money elsewhere and/or pick something up in a sign-and-trade. It wouldn't be the worst thing in the world.

    2. Rondo + Bass + Melo + Barbosa + draft picks to the Suns for Gortat, Dragic, Dudley, and Scola.

    The Suns would make this deal because it helps them bottom out this year and secure a high draft pick, along with the Celtic picks, and a relatively young All-Star point guard. It also clears up a lot of cap space. Dragic and Dudley both have three years left on their contracts. Scola has two more years. Gortat wants out and Phoenix doesn't seem to like him very much for whatever reason.

    The Celtics would improve because they'd end up with the deepest roster in the league. The starting unit would consist of Gortat, Garnett, Pierce, Bradley, and Lee. Off the bench would be Scola, Green, Dudley, Dragic, and Terry. Wilcox and Collins round out the active roster to provide fouls. That would be a very dynamic, well-rounded team, and then on next year's squad, Sullinger gets inegrated back into the mix.

    3. Rondo + Bass + Melo + Barbosa to Utah for Jefferson and Williams.

    The Jazz get an All-Star point guard in Rondo and PF insurance in Bass for impending free agents Jefferson and Millsap. The Celtics fill their two needs of a rebounding big (Al Jefferson) and a scorer who could run the point (Mo Williams) without having to commit themselves long-term.

     



    The big glitch in all of these scenarios is that I doubt that any team trades for Rondo since his ACL injury.... why would teams risk that?

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from basketbert. Show basketbert's posts

    Re: Garnett and Pierce should stay, period.

    In response to VeniceSox's comment:

    In response to davidap's comment:

     

    Kevin Garnett is the soul of the Boston Celtics. He inspires his teammates. He motivates them. He tutors them. He's a leader. He actually wants to be a Celtic.

    He's also a very good player. He's obviously not what he was 10 years ago, or even back in '08, but he still remains one of the top defensive bigs in the league. He's still an elite player. A team needs elite players to win.

    Paul Pierce deserves to retire a Celtic. He's been with Boston his entire illustrious career. He's expressed a desire to be one of the few players in the modern era to spend his entire professional life with the same, single organization. Plus he's still a productive player. I care about loyalty. I believe in loyalty.

    I also care and believe in identity. The Celtics are more than just a uniform. They're an ideology, they're a personality. I don't understand all these fans who want to trade everybody off the roster. Do that and we're not really watching the Boston Celtics anymore. Some guys are just too integral to the chemistry and identity of a team to move them.

    I realize that the Celtics as currently constituted are not likely to contend for a championship any time soon. But that's true with or without Garnett and Pierce. Pawning them off for the sake of pawning them off (and that's what most of the fan trade proposals would lead to) does not necessarily accelerate the rebuilding into a champion. Bottoming out and rebuilding through the draft doesn't necessarily work either, as many perennial lottery teams can attest. It really comes down to money, astute draft selections (wherever a team may pick), and exploiting other teams' contractual mistakes (overpays and redundant acquisitions).

    Instead of trading everyone away and just as likely turning into the Charlotte Bobcats as the next Oklahoma City Thunder, I'd rather see Ainge build around what the Celtics already have, instead of wasting it. Garnett and Pierce are still talented enough to be the second and third guys on a championship team. Bradley, Green, Lee, and Terry are all championship-caliber role players. Sullinger appears to be headed in that direction as well, if he can return healthy from back surgery.

    As we've seen the last couple years, the Celtics are capable of beating any team in the league on a given night. They always seem to be just one or two players short. With a healthy Perkins in Game 7 of 2010, maybe they win the Finals. With a healthy Green and Bradley last year, they probably beat the Heat and maybe defeat the Thunder. It's foolish to ignore these realities and think that the team needs to take twenty steps back to go one step forward. Just take the step forward!


    My solution: trade Rondo and fodder (Bass, Wilcox, Collins, Barbosa, Melo, future picks) for a legitimately talented rebounding/shot-blocking big, and try to do it by this Thursday's deadline. The rumored Dwight Howard deal that the Lakers denied would turn the Celtics into instant title contenders. That's a risk worth taking. Worst case scenario, Howard leaves via free agency and the Celtics would have significant money to spend. I don't think that's such a terrible fallback plan. Doing nothing is the bigger problem. You have to take risks. You have to think big. The Celtics really can win the championship this year if they turn Rondo into something useful. Don't procrastinate. Do it now. Plenty of teams would love to take their chances on a talent like Rondo.

    A few possible scenarios:

    1. Rondo + Bass + Melo + two first round draft picks to the Lakers for Howard.

    The Lakers would make this deal because they desperately need a pass-first point guard to work with Kobe Bryant, Howard clearly won't be returning to LA anyway (I don't care what he says in public, it's obvious that he doesn't get along with the other Lakers), and this deal would allow the Lakers to recoup some much-needed draft picks that they've surrendered in recent trades. Due to the fact that Rondo is out for the rest of the season, there's no immediate redundancy issue at the PG position with Nash. The Lakers could move him in the off-season, maybe to the Raptors who wanted him last year.

    From the Celtics' perspective, this may seem like a huge price to pay for what might only be a couple months of an injury-hampered Howard, but how else would they ever realistically be able to obtain someone of his magnitude? Even hurt, Dwight Howard is a definite upgrade and game-changer. He would immediately vault the Celtics into championship contenion, this year. Pair him up with Garnett and he'd be rejuvenated.

    There's not a doubt in my mind that Howard would play well for the Celtics. What better chance would he have to prove Kobe Bryant and the Lakers wrong about him? What better way to rehabilitate his image heading into free agency than to win a championship? That's not going to happen for him in LA, and so at least on a subconscious level, he's not going to be as motivated to try as hard unless he gets traded this week. I also like the Celtics' chances of holding onto him if he wins a championship this year, or even just comes close to winning one. Most guys seem to like playing for Doc Rivers and alongside Garnett and Pierce. If Howard leaves, allocate the money elsewhere and/or pick something up in a sign-and-trade. It wouldn't be the worst thing in the world.

    2. Rondo + Bass + Melo + Barbosa + draft picks to the Suns for Gortat, Dragic, Dudley, and Scola.

    The Suns would make this deal because it helps them bottom out this year and secure a high draft pick, along with the Celtic picks, and a relatively young All-Star point guard. It also clears up a lot of cap space. Dragic and Dudley both have three years left on their contracts. Scola has two more years. Gortat wants out and Phoenix doesn't seem to like him very much for whatever reason.

    The Celtics would improve because they'd end up with the deepest roster in the league. The starting unit would consist of Gortat, Garnett, Pierce, Bradley, and Lee. Off the bench would be Scola, Green, Dudley, Dragic, and Terry. Wilcox and Collins round out the active roster to provide fouls. That would be a very dynamic, well-rounded team, and then on next year's squad, Sullinger gets inegrated back into the mix.

    3. Rondo + Bass + Melo + Barbosa to Utah for Jefferson and Williams.

    The Jazz get an All-Star point guard in Rondo and PF insurance in Bass for impending free agents Jefferson and Millsap. The Celtics fill their two needs of a rebounding big (Al Jefferson) and a scorer who could run the point (Mo Williams) without having to commit themselves long-term.

     

     



    The big glitch in all of these scenarios is that I doubt that any team trades for Rondo since his ACL injury.... why would teams risk that?

     




    they wouldn't.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from davidap. Show davidap's posts

    Re: Garnett and Pierce should stay, period.

    The big glitch in all of these scenarios is that I doubt that any team trades for Rondo since his ACL injury.... why would teams risk that?


    In two of my scenarios (the Lakers and Jazz trades), the players could just leave at the end of the year and the teams end up with absolutely nothing to show for them. Is the high probability that a cost-controlled Rondo for the next three years returns from injury along with some draft picks worth two months of an impending free agent? I think so, yes. Would a team like Utah ever otherwise get a chance at landing a player like Rondo? No. Salt Lake City isn't exactly a hot free agent destination.

    If the roles were reversed and the Celtics were the team floundering in lotteryville with an unhappy Howard and the Lakers offered an injured Rondo with three years remaining on his deal, plus two draft picks, I'd honestly jump all over that trade. I'd rather get something than nothing, especially when that something is an All-Star point guard signed to a below market deal for three more years.

    Most players come back from ACL tears. There's not one credible report out there suggesting that Rondo won't return or won't be the same kind of player. This isn't a Jayson Williams situation.

    As for my Suns proposal, it's still a decent deal for Phoenix even if Rondo were to never play again, just by virtue of the picks and all the cap space that gets cleared.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from mrkite74. Show mrkite74's posts

    Re: Garnett and Pierce should stay, period.

    Seems these days people don't really fear coming back from ACL.  I know it is serious injury, but the medical technolgy of today pretty much makes this a much less serious inury than even just 10 years ago.

     
  9. This post has been removed.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from mrkite74. Show mrkite74's posts

    Re: Garnett and Pierce should stay, period.

    True

     

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from davidap. Show davidap's posts

    Re: Garnett and Pierce should stay, period.

    Something else to take into consideration is that trades in the NBA, unlike in the other leagues, are more about clearing cap space, creating flexibility, adding draft picks, and purposefully getting worse (within a current season to secure a higher draft position) than about the actual players being exchanged. Rarely do you see teams make trades where there's an even swap in talent. It's usually one team in an undesirable market dumping an overpaid player, or an expiring contract, in return for draft picks and someone on a longer-term deal who would never otherwise go to that team.

    All three of my proposals fit the above typical criteria. The Lakers, Jazz, and Suns get something likely very significant (assuming Rondo returns from the ACL tear) in return for players who they either don't want or who are unlikely to remain with their current teams beyond this season. All three teams improve their cap situations. All three teams add draft picks to improve for the future. All three teams get temporarily worse for this season in an effort to maximize the likelihood of their own picks carrying additional worth.

    Of the three, I think my Laker proposal works out the best for both sides because (1) Rondo is the perfect fit for Kobe Bryant and Pau Gasol, (2) the Lakers need to get back some of those draft picks to get younger and help fill out their roster (I'd send two unprotected first rounders and an additional protected first rounder if that's what it took), and (3) adding Rondo makes Nash expendable now or in the off-season, which means additional picks and/or players for Los Angeles (something like Nash and World Peace to Toronto for Bargnani and Fields would make sense). Then, of course, for the Celtics, as I explained before, the Howard/Garnett tandem immediately vaults the team into legitimate championship contenion and puts the Celtics in the proverbial driver's seat to retain Howard or some other max player long-term. Ainge needs to make this happen, I don't care how many picks it takes. Make it four. Whatever. Howard is that important. It's not every year that you get a chance to instantly remake your team into a leading contender mid-season.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from jrleftfoot. Show jrleftfoot's posts

    Re: Garnett and Pierce should stay, period.

    In response to davidap's comment:

     

    Kevin Garnett is the soul of the Boston Celtics. He inspires his teammates. He motivates them. He tutors them. He's a leader. He actually wants to be a Celtic.

    He's also a very good player. He's obviously not what he was 10 years ago, or even back in '08, but he still remains one of the top defensive bigs in the league. He's still an elite player. A team needs elite players to win.

    Paul Pierce deserves to retire a Celtic. He's been with Boston his entire illustrious career. He's expressed a desire to be one of the few players in the modern era to spend his entire professional life with the same, single organization. Plus he's still a productive player. I care about loyalty. I believe in loyalty.

    I also care and believe in identity. The Celtics are more than just a uniform. They're an ideology, they're a personality. I don't understand all these fans who want to trade everybody off the roster. Do that and we're not really watching the Boston Celtics anymore. Some guys are just too integral to the chemistry and identity of a team to move them.

    I realize that the Celtics as currently constituted are not likely to contend for a championship any time soon. But that's true with or without Garnett and Pierce. Pawning them off for the sake of pawning them off (and that's what most of the fan trade proposals would lead to) does not necessarily accelerate the rebuilding into a champion. Bottoming out and rebuilding through the draft doesn't necessarily work either, as many perennial lottery teams can attest. It really comes down to money, astute draft selections (wherever a team may pick), and exploiting other teams' contractual mistakes (overpays and redundant acquisitions).

    Instead of trading everyone away and just as likely turning into the Charlotte Bobcats as the next Oklahoma City Thunder, I'd rather see Ainge build around what the Celtics already have, instead of wasting it. Garnett and Pierce are still talented enough to be the second and third guys on a championship team. Bradley, Green, Lee, and Terry are all championship-caliber role players. Sullinger appears to be headed in that direction as well, if he can return healthy from back surgery.

    As we've seen the last couple years, the Celtics are capable of beating any team in the league on a given night. They always seem to be just one or two players short. With a healthy Perkins in Game 7 of 2010, maybe they win the Finals. With a healthy Green and Bradley last year, they probably beat the Heat and maybe defeat the Thunder. It's foolish to ignore these realities and think that the team needs to take twenty steps back to go one step forward. Just take the step forward!


    My solution: trade Rondo and fodder (Bass, Wilcox, Collins, Barbosa, Melo, future picks) for a legitimately talented rebounding/shot-blocking big, and try to do it by this Thursday's deadline. The rumored Dwight Howard deal that the Lakers denied would turn the Celtics into instant title contenders. That's a risk worth taking. Worst case scenario, Howard leaves via free agency and the Celtics would have significant money to spend. I don't think that's such a terrible fallback plan. Doing nothing is the bigger problem. You have to take risks. You have to think big. The Celtics really can win the championship this year if they turn Rondo into something useful. Don't procrastinate. Do it now. Plenty of teams would love to take their chances on a talent like Rondo.

    A few possible scenarios:

    1. Rondo + Bass + Melo + two first round draft picks to the Lakers for Howard.

    The Lakers would make this deal because they desperately need a pass-first point guard to work with Kobe Bryant, Howard clearly won't be returning to LA anyway (I don't care what he says in public, it's obvious that he doesn't get along with the other Lakers), and this deal would allow the Lakers to recoup some much-needed draft picks that they've surrendered in recent trades. Due to the fact that Rondo is out for the rest of the season, there's no immediate redundancy issue at the PG position with Nash. The Lakers could move him in the off-season, maybe to the Raptors who wanted him last year.

    From the Celtics' perspective, this may seem like a huge price to pay for what might only be a couple months of an injury-hampered Howard, but how else would they ever realistically be able to obtain someone of his magnitude? Even hurt, Dwight Howard is a definite upgrade and game-changer. He would immediately vault the Celtics into championship contenion, this year. Pair him up with Garnett and he'd be rejuvenated.

    There's not a doubt in my mind that Howard would play well for the Celtics. What better chance would he have to prove Kobe Bryant and the Lakers wrong about him? What better way to rehabilitate his image heading into free agency than to win a championship? That's not going to happen for him in LA, and so at least on a subconscious level, he's not going to be as motivated to try as hard unless he gets traded this week. I also like the Celtics' chances of holding onto him if he wins a championship this year, or even just comes close to winning one. Most guys seem to like playing for Doc Rivers and alongside Garnett and Pierce. If Howard leaves, allocate the money elsewhere and/or pick something up in a sign-and-trade. It wouldn't be the worst thing in the world.

    2. Rondo + Bass + Melo + Barbosa + draft picks to the Suns for Gortat, Dragic, Dudley, and Scola.

    The Suns would make this deal because it helps them bottom out this year and secure a high draft pick, along with the Celtic picks, and a relatively young All-Star point guard. It also clears up a lot of cap space. Dragic and Dudley both have three years left on their contracts. Scola has two more years. Gortat wants out and Phoenix doesn't seem to like him very much for whatever reason.

    The Celtics would improve because they'd end up with the deepest roster in the league. The starting unit would consist of Gortat, Garnett, Pierce, Bradley, and Lee. Off the bench would be Scola, Green, Dudley, Dragic, and Terry. Wilcox and Collins round out the active roster to provide fouls. That would be a very dynamic, well-rounded team, and then on next year's squad, Sullinger gets inegrated back into the mix.

    3. Rondo + Bass + Melo + Barbosa to Utah for Jefferson and Williams.

    The Jazz get an All-Star point guard in Rondo and PF insurance in Bass for impending free agents Jefferson and Millsap. The Celtics fill their two needs of a rebounding big (Al Jefferson) and a scorer who could run the point (Mo Williams) without having to commit themselves long-term.

     puff the magic dragon

     




     

     
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  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from davidap. Show davidap's posts

    Re: Garnett and Pierce should stay, period.

    I don't see how the Celtics match up with the Hawks for Josh Smith. If it's Pierce for Smith, that's a downgrade for the Celtics, but not enough of one to tank their way to a lottery pick. If it's Bass and fodder for Smith, that's a downgrade for the Hawks both in talent and cap flexibility. Some sort of Rondo for Smith swap doesn't make much sense either because the main attraction for the Celtics and Hawks in making a trade would be to pair Rondo with Smith together in either Boston or Atlanta. I think a third team needs to be involved somehow to make sense out of this potential deal.

     
  15. This post has been removed.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from davidap. Show davidap's posts

    Re: Garnett and Pierce should stay, period.

    Here's a massive four-team deal that might make sense for all involved parties:

    Celtics receive Al Jefferson, Zaza Pachulia, Josh Smith, and Eric Bledsoe.

    Hawks receive DeAndre Jordan, Lamar Odom, Mo Williams, and Leandro Barbosa.

    Clippers receive Kevin Garnett and Devin Harris.

    Jazz receive Paul Pierce and Brandon Bass.

     

    http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine/?tradeId=b4szplg

     

    Post-trade Celtics (with a focus on next year's roster):

     

    C Al Jefferson (re-signed)

    PF Josh Smith (re-signed)

    SF Jeff Green

    PG Rajon Rondo

    SG Avery Bradley

     

    C Zaza Pachulia (re-signed)

    PF Jared Sullinger

    SF Courtney Lee (small, I know) or MLE acquisiton or draft pick

    PG Eric Bledsoe

    SG Jason Terry

     

    11-15th men: Wilcox? Collins? Melo? Whoever.

     

     

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from prakash. Show prakash's posts

    Re: Garnett and Pierce should stay, period.

    In response to Fierce34's comment:

    In response to davidap's comment:

     

    I don't see how the Celtics match up with the Hawks for Josh Smith. If it's Pierce for Smith, that's a downgrade for the Celtics, but not enough of one to tank their way to a lottery pick. If it's Bass and fodder for Smith, that's a downgrade for the Hawks both in talent and cap flexibility. Some sort of Rondo for Smith swap doesn't make much sense either because the main attraction for the Celtics and Hawks in making a trade would be to pair Rondo with Smith together in either Boston or Atlanta. I think a third team needs to be involved somehow to make sense out of this potential deal.

     



    Bass, Lee, and a 1st round pick for Josh Smith.

     

    Hawks only have 7 players under contract next season, only 5 are guaranteed. 

    Getting 2 good players and a 1st round pick is better than getting nothing for Josh Smith.

    Of course other teams could offer more.



    As I have said elsewhere Rondo + Bass for Josh Smith + Lou Williams.  There can be picks and players involved for luxury tax relief.  I can only see this scenario work.  Nothing else makes sense.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from KennCelt53. Show KennCelt53's posts

    Re: Garnett and Pierce should stay, period.

    In response to davidap's comment:

    Here's a massive four-team deal that might make sense for all involved parties:

    Celtics receive Al Jefferson, Zaza Pachulia, Josh Smith, and Eric Bledsoe.

    Hawks receive DeAndre Jordan, Lamar Odom, Mo Williams, and Leandro Barbosa.

    Clippers receive Kevin Garnett and Devin Harris.

    Jazz receive Paul Pierce and Brandon Bass.

     

    http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine/?tradeId=b4szplg

     

    Post-trade Celtics (with a focus on next year's roster):

     

    C Al Jefferson (re-signed)

    PF Josh Smith (re-signed)

    SF Jeff Green

    PG Rajon Rondo

    SG Avery Bradley

     

    C Zaza Pachulia (re-signed)

    PF Jared Sullinger

    SF Courtney Lee (small, I know) or MLE acquisiton or draft pick

    PG Eric Bledsoe

    SG Jason Terry

     

    11-15th men: Wilcox? Collins? Melo? Whoever.

     

     



    Yea, that's going to happen. 

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from davidap. Show davidap's posts

    Re: Garnett and Pierce should stay, period.

    None of these trades are going to happen, Kenn. It'll likely be something minor like Barbosa and a second round pick for Jamison.

     
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  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from KennCelt53. Show KennCelt53's posts

    Re: Garnett and Pierce should stay, period.

    In response to davidap's comment:

    None of these trades are going to happen, Kenn. It'll likely be something minor like Barbosa and a second round pick for Jamison.



    I was not being serious. Both teams need to get something of value and those trades were one sided in favor of the Celtics. During this time of year many rumors are advanced, but few deals are actually made. Certainly not often are there more than one big deal done by one team in the last 3 days. 

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from susan250. Show susan250's posts

    Re: Garnett and Pierce should stay, period.

    In response to Fierce34's comment:

    In response to mrkite74's comment:

     

    Seems these days people don't really fear coming back from ACL.  I know it is serious injury, but the medical technolgy of today pretty much makes this a much less serious inury than even just 10 years ago.

     



    The injury itself is not as serious compared to 10 years ago, true. But how the player bounces back from an ACL injury is the main concern.

     

    Will Rondo be the same player before the injury?

    No one knows for sure until he is playing at full speed.


    You are right.  Derrick Rose still hasn't played this season.  Rondo isn't going to get traded this season since teams aren't going to take a chance on him recovering and don't know when he will be able to play again.  

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from JG9000. Show JG9000's posts

    Re: Garnett and Pierce should stay, period.

    In response to davidap's comment:

    Kevin Garnett is the soul of the Boston Celtics. He inspires his teammates. He motivates them. He tutors them. He's a leader. He actually wants to be a Celtic.

    He's also a very good player. He's obviously not what he was 10 years ago, or even back in '08, but he still remains one of the top defensive bigs in the league. He's still an elite player. A team needs elite players to win.

    Paul Pierce deserves to retire a Celtic. He's been with Boston his entire illustrious career. He's expressed a desire to be one of the few players in the modern era to spend his entire professional life with the same, single organization. Plus he's still a productive player. I care about loyalty. I believe in loyalty.

    I also care and believe in identity. The Celtics are more than just a uniform. They're an ideology, they're a personality. I don't understand all these fans who want to trade everybody off the roster. Do that and we're not really watching the Boston Celtics anymore. Some guys are just too integral to the chemistry and identity of a team to move them.

    I realize that the Celtics as currently constituted are not likely to contend for a championship any time soon. But that's true with or without Garnett and Pierce. Pawning them off for the sake of pawning them off (and that's what most of the fan trade proposals would lead to) does not necessarily accelerate the rebuilding into a champion. Bottoming out and rebuilding through the draft doesn't necessarily work either, as many perennial lottery teams can attest. It really comes down to money, astute draft selections (wherever a team may pick), and exploiting other teams' contractual mistakes (overpays and redundant acquisitions).

    Instead of trading everyone away and just as likely turning into the Charlotte Bobcats as the next Oklahoma City Thunder, I'd rather see Ainge build around what the Celtics already have, instead of wasting it. Garnett and Pierce are still talented enough to be the second and third guys on a championship team. Bradley, Green, Lee, and Terry are all championship-caliber role players. Sullinger appears to be headed in that direction as well, if he can return healthy from back surgery.

    As we've seen the last couple years, the Celtics are capable of beating any team in the league on a given night. They always seem to be just one or two players short. With a healthy Perkins in Game 7 of 2010, maybe they win the Finals. With a healthy Green and Bradley last year, they probably beat the Heat and maybe defeat the Thunder. It's foolish to ignore these realities and think that the team needs to take twenty steps back to go one step forward. Just take the step forward!


    My solution: trade Rondo and fodder (Bass, Wilcox, Collins, Barbosa, Melo, future picks) for a legitimately talented rebounding/shot-blocking big, and try to do it by this Thursday's deadline. The rumored Dwight Howard deal that the Lakers denied would turn the Celtics into instant title contenders. That's a risk worth taking. Worst case scenario, Howard leaves via free agency and the Celtics would have significant money to spend. I don't think that's such a terrible fallback plan. Doing nothing is the bigger problem. You have to take risks. You have to think big. The Celtics really can win the championship this year if they turn Rondo into something useful. Don't procrastinate. Do it now. Plenty of teams would love to take their chances on a talent like Rondo.

    A few possible scenarios:

    1. Rondo + Bass + Melo + two first round draft picks to the Lakers for Howard.

    The Lakers would make this deal because they desperately need a pass-first point guard to work with Kobe Bryant, Howard clearly won't be returning to LA anyway (I don't care what he says in public, it's obvious that he doesn't get along with the other Lakers), and this deal would allow the Lakers to recoup some much-needed draft picks that they've surrendered in recent trades. Due to the fact that Rondo is out for the rest of the season, there's no immediate redundancy issue at the PG position with Nash. The Lakers could move him in the off-season, maybe to the Raptors who wanted him last year.

    From the Celtics' perspective, this may seem like a huge price to pay for what might only be a couple months of an injury-hampered Howard, but how else would they ever realistically be able to obtain someone of his magnitude? Even hurt, Dwight Howard is a definite upgrade and game-changer. He would immediately vault the Celtics into championship contenion, this year. Pair him up with Garnett and he'd be rejuvenated.

    There's not a doubt in my mind that Howard would play well for the Celtics. What better chance would he have to prove Kobe Bryant and the Lakers wrong about him? What better way to rehabilitate his image heading into free agency than to win a championship? That's not going to happen for him in LA, and so at least on a subconscious level, he's not going to be as motivated to try as hard unless he gets traded this week. I also like the Celtics' chances of holding onto him if he wins a championship this year, or even just comes close to winning one. Most guys seem to like playing for Doc Rivers and alongside Garnett and Pierce. If Howard leaves, allocate the money elsewhere and/or pick something up in a sign-and-trade. It wouldn't be the worst thing in the world.

    2. Rondo + Bass + Melo + Barbosa + draft picks to the Suns for Gortat, Dragic, Dudley, and Scola.

    The Suns would make this deal because it helps them bottom out this year and secure a high draft pick, along with the Celtic picks, and a relatively young All-Star point guard. It also clears up a lot of cap space. Dragic and Dudley both have three years left on their contracts. Scola has two more years. Gortat wants out and Phoenix doesn't seem to like him very much for whatever reason.

    The Celtics would improve because they'd end up with the deepest roster in the league. The starting unit would consist of Gortat, Garnett, Pierce, Bradley, and Lee. Off the bench would be Scola, Green, Dudley, Dragic, and Terry. Wilcox and Collins round out the active roster to provide fouls. That would be a very dynamic, well-rounded team, and then on next year's squad, Sullinger gets inegrated back into the mix.

    3. Rondo + Bass + Melo + Barbosa to Utah for Jefferson and Williams.

    The Jazz get an All-Star point guard in Rondo and PF insurance in Bass for impending free agents Jefferson and Millsap. The Celtics fill their two needs of a rebounding big (Al Jefferson) and a scorer who could run the point (Mo Williams) without having to commit themselves long-term.

     




    i agree with keeping Pierce and Garnett around for another year or two. build around them. they still have enough gas in their tank to lead this team. you can't replace Garnett's  leadership and enthusiasm that he brings to this team every game. people who thought  this was Rondo's team were totally wrong. it is Garnett's team and has been since he became a Celtic. he want's to be here so we should keep him around.

     
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