GET OFF KG's BACK!!!

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from RallyC. Show RallyC's posts

    GET OFF KG's BACK!!!

    Is KG the same KG of old? NO! But, KG as a significant player for the C's is not ovah, yet! I am speaking from the perspective of a 50-yr old, ex college/briefly professional athlete.  Of all the teams in the NBA, the C's are sufferring the worse from the extended lockout. Along with getting older, the C's got a lot more athletic! but, at the expense of chemistry by both losing and adding so many new, key players. On top of the fact that it takes older players longer to get their skills sharpened after a long break, the addition of so many new faces has stunted the chemistry developement too. KG is thinking a lot during the action. Many of the players are just now starting to understand their individual roles. Once we get to the end of this month, you will see a different product as the old guys will finally be in sync/shape, and the new guys will get it. Until then, all of you Nostradamas's need to focus on the PATS run to the Superbowl. If you watched the game last night, then you saw some very promising signs of this fact. Now, GO LAY DOWN!
     
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  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from wfdog. Show wfdog's posts

    Re: GET OFF KG's BAK!!!

    Are you saying this to the forum or the world because the consensus in the NBA is that he has nothing left. While we still value KG's instensity and past contributions in this town, the word is out in the rest of the league that his defense has dropped and he just can't jump anymore.

    Like Ray Lewis, he is a prideful man who used to dominate, so I doubt he even plays next year unless he gets some new German blood or Dominican vitamins in his body. That said, if his play continues this year, could DA even get anything for his over $21 MM expiring contract?
     
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  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Petey62. Show Petey62's posts

    Re: GET OFF KG's BAK!!!

    KG is a significant player for the Cs because he HAS TO BE!  And because KG has to be a significant player for the Cs, as other players HAVE TO BE significant players, we don't look good.  We're just not a good basketball team because several players are relied upon to be significant players when they are incapable of being significant "enough" for the Cs to win games.  We're also not good because of the reliance on Pierce and Ray and they just are unable to produce like they once could.  There are indications though that they may turn their performances around but not so sure about KG.

    KG appears to be the one who has lost the most.  I don't necessarily prescribe to your notion that "the C's are suffering the worse from the extended lockout".  In my opinion, other than Paul's 3 games, we have not been beset by injuries that other teams have that can be somewhat tied to the lockout (hamstrings, injuries not addressed during the lockout-Kobe wrist, Curry ankle, CP3 knee, Amare back, etc.).

    KG as a significant player for the Cs IS done.  However, KG as a significant player for a contender IS NOT done.  What the Cs need from him to win is alot more than what a contender would need from him to win.  And what KG is capable of bringing would be significant enough to a contender as opposed to the struggling Cs.

    I'm also not sure it's a chemistry issue as much as you suggest.  We do have to integrate our bench players but we have the same starting five that we had last season (with JON) and our first unit is not playing consistently well.  That's not a chemistry as much as it is an "age" issue which you suggest.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from RallyC. Show RallyC's posts

    Re: GET OFF KG's BAK!!!

    In Response to Re: GET OFF KG's BAK!!!:
    [QUOTE]KG is a significant player for the Cs because he HAS TO BE!  And because KG has to be a significant player for the Cs, as other players HAVE TO BE significant players, we don't look good.  We're just not a good basketball team because several players are relied upon to be significant players when they are incapable of being significant " enough " for the Cs to win games.  We're also not good because of the reliance on Pierce and Ray and they just are unable to produce like they once could.  There are indications though that they may turn their performances around but not so sure about KG. KG appears to be the one who has lost the most.  I don't necessarily prescribe to your notion that " the C's are suffering the worse from the extended lockout ".  In my opinion, other than Paul's 3 games, we have not been beset by injuries that other teams have that can be somewhat tied to the lockout (hamstrings, injuries not addressed during the lockout-Kobe wrist, Curry ankle, CP3 knee, Amare back, etc.). KG as a significant player for the Cs IS done.  However, KG as a significant player for a contender IS NOT done .  What the Cs need from him to win is alot more than what a contender would need from him to win.  And what KG is capable of bringing would be significant enough to a contender as opposed to the struggling Cs. I'm also not sure it's a chemistry issue as much as you suggest.  We do have to integrate our bench players but we have the same starting five that we had last season (with JON) and our first unit is not playing consistently well.  That's not a chemistry as much as it is an "age" issue which you suggest.
    Posted by Petey62[/QUOTE]

    Petey,

    If you watched last night, you saw PP raise his level of activity and can see his legs getting back under him. You saw us go small and run with moderate success against one of the elite teams in the game. Yes, KG is struggling with the transition offense and moving the ball effectively in the half court. BUT, he cannot be compared to the Hall of Fame years that he had. He must be looked at as a complementary player who can still play above average D and shoot with the best forwards/centers in the game. Once Doc gets them to "Do their job" as the PATS so effectively have displayed, then we will be a top ten team. That gives us a chance. Nobody can deny that this team is quite deep with athleticism. They will support KG more than in the past once they get rolling. KG will not be the enforcer he once was, but a great 6'11" finnesse guy for sure. It must be kept relative! KG is still KG, just not compared to himself. He will  still be a major factor as this year goes on if he stays healthy.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Petey62. Show Petey62's posts

    Re: GET OFF KG's BACK!!!

    RallyC, I definitely hope and have been hoping to see that player at some point.  You just might be right.  I can't wait to say you were.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from RallyC. Show RallyC's posts

    Re: GET OFF KG's BAK!!!

    In Response to Re: GET OFF KG's BAK!!!:
    [QUOTE]KG is a significant player for the Cs because he HAS TO BE!  And because KG has to be a significant player for the Cs, as other players HAVE TO BE significant players, we don't look good.  We're just not a good basketball team because several players are relied upon to be significant players when they are incapable of being significant " enough " for the Cs to win games.  We're also not good because of the reliance on Pierce and Ray and they just are unable to produce like they once could.  There are indications though that they may turn their performances around but not so sure about KG. KG appears to be the one who has lost the most.  I don't necessarily prescribe to your notion that " the C's are suffering the worse from the extended lockout ".  In my opinion, other than Paul's 3 games, we have not been beset by injuries that other teams have that can be somewhat tied to the lockout (hamstrings, injuries not addressed during the lockout-Kobe wrist, Curry ankle, CP3 knee, Amare back, etc.). KG as a significant player for the Cs IS done.  However, KG as a significant player for a contender IS NOT done .  What the Cs need from him to win is alot more than what a contender would need from him to win.  And what KG is capable of bringing would be significant enough to a contender as opposed to the struggling Cs. I'm also not sure it's a chemistry issue as much as you suggest.  We do have to integrate our bench players but we have the same starting five that we had last season (with JON) and our first unit is not playing consistently well.  That's not a chemistry as much as it is an "age" issue which you suggest.
    Posted by Petey62[/QUOTE]

    As for the injury comparison that you note:

    Older players know when they aren't ready to go 110%! They are cautious of pushing tooo hard before they are ready. After 12 to 15-years of pro ball, you would know your body too. Younger guys with less wisdom push harder and tend to think they can do what they have always done regardless of time on the court/field and their conditions. WE ALL KNOW THAT FEELING. Therefore, the guys in the transitional ages, 27-30, are the ones who are getting those nagging type of injuries. Yes, WISDOM AND EXPERIENCE is why we haven't been so hurt, but it cartainly has taken way from their perceived level of performance and produces shoddy results. Its called palying yourself into shape.....
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from antiqueman1. Show antiqueman1's posts

    Re: GET OFF KG's BACK!!!

    In Response to GET OFF KG's BACK!!!:
    [QUOTE]Is KG the same KG of old? NO! But, KG as a significant player for the C's is not ovah, yet! I am speaking from the perspective of a 50-yr old, ex college/briefly professional athlete.  Of all the teams in the NBA, the C's are sufferring the worse from the extended lockout. Along with getting older, the C's got a lot more athletic! but, at the expense of chemistry by both losing and adding so many new, key players. On top of the fact that it takes older players longer to get their skills sharpened after a long break, the addition of so many new faces has stunted the chemistry developement too. KG is thinking a lot during the action. Many of the players are just now starting to understand their individual roles. Once we get to the end of this month, you will see a different product as the old guys will finally be in sync/shape, and the new guys will get it. Until then, all of you Nostradamas's need to focus on the PATS run to the Superbowl. If you watched the game last night, then you saw some very promising signs of this fact. Now, GO LAY DOWN!
    Posted by RallyC[/QUOTE]

    Stop making the lockout the excuse for the C's. All teams faced the lockout. Period. As older athletes, excepetion with Allen(he keeps in shape), they should know they need to be in better shape. It will take that much longer with their aged bodies to get there now. And that is at the team's expense with loss after loss. All last night showed was how they have to come from behind to try and win games. And being out of shape and older, that won't cut it. Doc needs to ditch his loyalties and start coaching to win. Pierce and KG need to come in off the bench. Rondo needs some youth to run with him. Having KG and Pierce come in off the bench solidifies second unit. It will energize them and the C's. And it allows the young youthful talent to start showing what they can do. Let those players come in off the bench and work back into shape that way. It will keep them fresher. Again, last night showed that after making runs, this Cs team is gassed.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from RallyC. Show RallyC's posts

    Re: GET OFF KG's BACK!!!

    In Response to Re: GET OFF KG's BACK!!!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to GET OFF KG's BACK!!! : Stop making the lockout the excuse for the C's. All teams faced the lockout. Period. As older athletes, excepetion with Allen(he keeps in shape), they should know they need to be in better shape. It will take that much longer with their aged bodies to get there now. And that is at the team's expense with loss after loss. All last night showed was how they have to come from behind to try and win games. And being out of shape and older, that won't cut it. Doc needs to ditch his loyalties and start coaching to win. Pierce and KG need to come in off the bench. Rondo needs some youth to run with him. Having KG and Pierce come in off the bench solidifies second unit. It will energize them and the C's. And it allows the young youthful talent to start showing what they can do. Let those players come in off the bench and work back into shape that way. It will keep them fresher. Again, last night showed that after making runs, this Cs team is gassed.
    Posted by antiqueman1[/QUOTE]

    From purely a business standpoint, it is waaaaaay too early to take such a course of action. It is too expensive to not allow this team a real chance to GEL. It is unrealistice to think that DOC isn't coaching to win. THATS HIS JOB!!! AND, he's one of the best at it. His track record proves it. Talk all the S--T you want to. If we put these undeveloped kids out there, we are just as likely to ruin their potential and destroy their confidence because they aren't ready. How do I know? BEACUSE THE EXPERTS ARE SHOWING US THAT BY NOT PLAYING THEM! We are talking about millions of dollars in investment dollars on these guys. It isn't just for your entertainment value!  This is big business. Patience is a virtue. Most of you out there don't have any. In a normal season, the preseason would just be ending! Go ahead, whine and complain here because your wife/girlfriend won't listen to your bull shi-t anymore. By months end, you'll be reminded of the QUIT you laid on your favorite NBA team.........
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Celtsfan4life. Show Celtsfan4life's posts

    Re: GET OFF KG's BACK!!!

    RallyC, whoa, buddy.  Don't come down so hard on folks.  Your initial post was thought provoking and had a lot of good points.   Its ok for Antiqueman to disagree.

    1. I agree with you that the C's are hurt by the lack of practice time.  More than purely athletic teams, we depend on timing both on offense and defense.  We do less one on one ("WE DO IT TOGETHER" as Doc says) than other teams.  That comes from practice so we may be more hurt than others here. 

    2. With that said, other teams are affected significantly.  They see more injuries and timing of their offense is off, as well.  They all have new players as well. I watched the Lakers and Mavs last night.  The first quarter was something like 15 to 15.  Shooting and offense was horrendous.  They both looked awful.  I've seen so many games like that this year due to the shortened season.  So, the C's are not the only ones affected.  And, while I think KG is in shape, he's just older, slower, and can't jump as high. Happens to everyone.  Paul, however, was likely out of shape when camp started and that made his injury situation worse.   We cannot just excuse him for that.

    3. I don't think Doc can play most of the young kids too much and brings them along properly with the exception of Moore and Steimsma.  Both should play more minutes in my opinion and a faster team playing with Rondo in the middle of games is a good thing.   I acknowledge Doc sees them in practice so he knows best, but I happen to disagree with his judgement right now on how much to play the younger guys.  I believe he will play them more as the season progresses.  Clearly, however, we all have to admit that JON is just not cutting it and as good a shape as Ray is in, he's not quick nor is he a good defender.  So, giving him rest and playing Moore looks like a good move....and it develops Moore.  I do NOT agree that Ray should not start (nor do I agree with those who suggest Pierce and KG should not start).  We may arrive there at some point, but only if the team has stayed on this path and has no chance at the playoffs by say late February.

    Many people (announcers, writers, etc) have given up on the Cs as too old.  I doubt they win any championship, but I think with time, they will continue to improve and make the playoffs.  Not sure we won't see more than a 1st or 2nd round exit, but I do believe this team will surprise us because they've looked bad before and shown tremendous heart in digging deep to play better.  

    Whatever happens, I'll always love these guys for the highlights they've given us, the great season wins, and the championship they delivered in their first year.  But for a few injuries, I believe they would have had at least 1 more championship, as well.  This, however, is their last harrah.  KG cannot carry the team as often as he used to (primarily defensively) and he has no "cover man" at center to help him.  So, as the ONLY good defensive big on the floor lots of times, he gets beat.  Was a time he could pull that off but not now.   I admit that even though I just love what the guy gave us.  

    KG should NOT be traded in my opinion.  He should retire a Celtic and be remembered as a great Celtic, even if his skills have declined.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Gravelten4. Show Gravelten4's posts

    Re: GET OFF KG's BACK!!!

    Saying goodbye is hard. Knowing when to is even harder.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from binbones. Show binbones's posts

    Re: GET OFF KG's BACK!!!

    AGE ...PLUS...POOR CONDITIONING...PLUS...DOC'S REFUSAL

    TO PLAY ROOKS...EQUALS...LOSING RECORD...
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Celtsfan4life. Show Celtsfan4life's posts

    Re: GET OFF KG's BACK!!!

    Very well said, Gavelten.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Petey62. Show Petey62's posts

    Re: GET OFF KG's BACK!!!

    The sooner you say goodbye, the sooner you realize it was the best decision in the long run.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from c.wright. Show c.wright's posts

    Re: GET OFF KG's BACK!!!

    Yes, the C's are struggling, but I have enjoyed every game over the past 3yrs. with the ones that started the "BIG 3". I respect Garnett, Allen, and Perice
    to the fulliest now and always...it's another era now and other teams do have
    a lot of youthful players. Garnett will always be my favorite player. The decline
    in my opinion started with so many key players traded. Presently, the C's have no chemistry as to who does what, I think a couple of the  younger players
    need to start and then rotate the experience in as needed. At least give it a try. Good luck C's hopefully things will turn around someway and some how
    this season.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from OneOnOne. Show OneOnOne's posts

    Re: GET OFF KG's BACK!!!

    In Response to Re: GET OFF KG's BACK!!!:
    [QUOTE]RallyC, whoa, buddy.  Don't come down so hard on folks.  Your initial post was thought provoking and had a lot of good points.   Its ok for Antiqueman to disagree. 1. I agree with you that the C's are hurt by the lack of practice time.  More than purely athletic teams, we depend on timing both on offense and defense.  We do less one on one ("WE DO IT TOGETHER" as Doc says) than other teams.  That comes from practice so we may be more hurt than others here.  2. With that said, other teams are affected significantly.  They see more injuries and timing of their offense is off, as well.  They all have new players as well. I watched the Lakers and Mavs last night.  The first quarter was something like 15 to 15.  Shooting and offense was horrendous.  They both looked awful.  I've seen so many games like that this year due to the shortened season.  So, the C's are not the only ones affected.  And, while I think KG is in shape, he's just older, slower, and can't jump as high. Happens to everyone.  Paul, however, was likely out of shape when camp started and that made his injury situation worse.   We cannot just excuse him for that. 3. I don't think Doc can play most of the young kids too much and brings them along properly with the exception of Moore and Steimsma.  Both should play more minutes in my opinion and a faster team playing with Rondo in the middle of games is a good thing.   I acknowledge Doc sees them in practice so he knows best, but I happen to disagree with his judgement right now on how much to play the younger guys.  I believe he will play them more as the season progresses.  Clearly, however, we all have to admit that JON is just not cutting it and as good a shape as Ray is in, he's not quick nor is he a good defender.  So, giving him rest and playing Moore looks like a good move....and it develops Moore.  I do NOT agree that Ray should not start (nor do I agree with those who suggest Pierce and KG should not start).  We may arrive there at some point, but only if the team has stayed on this path and has no chance at the playoffs by say late February. Many people (announcers, writers, etc) have given up on the Cs as too old.  I doubt they win any championship, but I think with time, they will continue to improve and make the playoffs.  Not sure we won't see more than a 1st or 2nd round exit, but I do believe this team will surprise us because they've looked bad before and shown tremendous heart in digging deep to play better.   Whatever happens, I'll always love these guys for the highlights they've given us, the great season wins, and the championship they delivered in their first year.  But for a few injuries, I believe they would have had at least 1 more championship, as well.  This, however, is their last harrah.  KG cannot carry the team as often as he used to (primarily defensively) and he has no "cover man" at center to help him.  So, as the ONLY good defensive big on the floor lots of times, he gets beat.  Was a time he could pull that off but not now.   I admit that even though I just love what the guy gave us.   KG should NOT be traded in my opinion.  He should retire a Celtic and be remembered as a great Celtic, even if his skills have declined.
    Posted by Celtsfan4life[/QUOTE]

    I agree with most Cfan. The only part I don't is Ray, I have said for 2 years he should come off the bench.  I would love to see Paul get most of the shots when he is in, then about the time he goes out Ray could look for more shots, then they both could be in the at the end. I think Paul is still capable od 22 pts a game if he gets the shots. The only problem is Rondo spends most of his time looking to catch Ray off a screen and other teams just are not letting that happen as much. Of course it may be worse for Ray when Paul isn't drawing attention.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from heirplain. Show heirplain's posts

    Re: GET OFF KG's BACK!!!


    Rallyc you are right on in most of your points! These guys are still elite in spirit!


    This is all a part of the theater being built this season. Our guys are older but still capable of a 4/5 play off ranking. They don't want to be all stars, nor burn all the matches in the book. YES! they are all unhappy with the way they have to do this but as in Paul's case all are still capable of a great play off run. Along with the newly found JO (whom I never doubted),and the athletic/capable reserves ....my money is on the C's to make a serious run for it all.

    KG, as will the rest of the seniors, may not have the hops or the minutes but will find a way as the season plays out.

    Betch ya! ...hope I'm not wrong!
    Gary

    Being a REAL fan is part of the territory
     
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  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Celtsfan4life. Show Celtsfan4life's posts

    Re: GET OFF KG's BACK!!!

    He looks bad some games but he may surprise you, Fierce......like he did in the Thunder game.  Odds are that you're right, but I personally sure hope he proves everyone wrong.   
     
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  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from OneOnOne. Show OneOnOne's posts

    Re: GET OFF KG's BACK!!!

    In Response to Re: GET OFF KG's BACK!!!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: GET OFF KG's BACK!!! : KG was done the moment Pau Gasol grabbed 18 rebounds on him in Game 7 of the 2010 Finals. The commentators of that game kept saying why is KG trying to grab those rebounds with one hand. KG is the reason why we don't have banner 18 right now.
    Posted by Fiercest34[/QUOTE]

    That last statement is both unfair and untrue.  There were more than ONE game in that series. There were other games .  How about a 0-13 from Ray Allen in one loss. Or maybe 33 percent from the field in game 6.  To blame it totally on KG is ridiculous.
     
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