Gordon Heyward: Less Efficient than the Big Dig

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from KJandHondo. Show KJandHondo's posts

    Gordon Heyward: Less Efficient than the Big Dig

    Stat Time!

    Gordon Heyward, the darling of these forums, the most commonly mentioned player for the Celtics to either trade for or acquire in the offseason, is… not so hot at basketball.  Okay, so he plays in the NBA so he’s above average when looking at the population as a whole, but in comparison to the rest of the league… he’s near or at the bottom of the league in almost everything but points per game. 

    Defensive Rating (points allowed per 100 possessions) = 108.3

    Offensive Rating (points scored per 100 possessions) = 99.0

    Net Rating (difference between OffRtg and DefRtg) = -9.4

    Context: Heyward’s -9.4 NetRtg is the 16th worst point differential in the NBA for player that play 20 or more minutes per game.  Among starters that is the 3rd worst differential in the NBA.

    Shooting %s

    Gordon Heyward is shooting a blistering 40.3%FG and 30.9% 3Pt which for players that play at least 20 minutes per game ranks him 113th in FG% and 121st in 3Pt % out of 147 qualified players.

    Common misconception: “Heyward had to play almost half the games this season as the primary ball handler causing his numbers (Specifically Offensive shooting %s) to be low” 

    Since Trey Burke’s arrival from injury (playing ROY level PG) 24 games ago Gordon Heyward efficiency has gone down to 38.9%FG and 28.7% 3pt.  In Comparison, Mr. G Wall-o-Bricks is shooting 58.7%FG and 31.4% 3pt so yeah he’s less efficient than our worst perimeter shooter.

     

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from chris33. Show chris33's posts

    Re: Gordon Heyward: Less Efficient than the Big Dig

    Nice post.

    I am not a fan. I never liked Austin Rivers either. I thought he was only drafted high because of his father.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from hedleylamarr. Show hedleylamarr's posts

    Re: Gordon Heyward: Less Efficient than the Big Dig

    Not a superstar.......but pair him with Rondo and Green and he'll be a better player (offensively) than either Bradley or Crawford.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from scubber. Show scubber's posts

    Re: Gordon Heyward: Less Efficient than the Big Dig

    In response to hedleylamarr's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Not a superstar.......but pair him with Rondo and Green and he'll be a better player (offensively) than either Bradley or Crawford.

    [/QUOTE]


    Why?  He belongs to Utah.  Why even imagine him playing on the Celtics team?  He is not that good based on the OP stat.  What is it about him that makes him keep coming up on people radar?

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from hedleylamarr. Show hedleylamarr's posts

    Re: Gordon Heyward: Less Efficient than the Big Dig

    In response to scubber's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to hedleylamarr's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Not a superstar.......but pair him with Rondo and Green and he'll be a better player (offensively) than either Bradley or Crawford.

    [/QUOTE]


    Why?  He belongs to Utah.  Why even imagine him playing on the Celtics team?  He is not that good based on the OP stat.  What is it about him that makes him keep coming up on people radar?

    [/QUOTE]


    He's young, he's a RFA......probably wants more than Utah will offer, and has a history with Stevens!

    PLUS - it will put to rest all the people out there who say we can't sign any free agents!

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from scubber. Show scubber's posts

    Re: Gordon Heyward: Less Efficient than the Big Dig

    In response to hedleylamarr's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to scubber's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to hedleylamarr's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Not a superstar.......but pair him with Rondo and Green and he'll be a better player (offensively) than either Bradley or Crawford.

    [/QUOTE]


    Why?  He belongs to Utah.  Why even imagine him playing on the Celtics team?  He is not that good based on the OP stat.  What is it about him that makes him keep coming up on people radar?

    [/QUOTE]


    He's young, he's a RFA......probably wants more than Utah will offer, and has a history with Stevens!

    PLUS - it will put to rest all the people out there who say we can't sign any free agents!

    [/QUOTE]


    Except for Stevens history part, there are many other players in the same categories and probably many that are much better.  Again, why him?

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from hedleylamarr. Show hedleylamarr's posts

    Re: Gordon Heyward: Less Efficient than the Big Dig

    In response to scubber's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to hedleylamarr's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to scubber's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to hedleylamarr's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Not a superstar.......but pair him with Rondo and Green and he'll be a better player (offensively) than either Bradley or Crawford.

    [/QUOTE]


    Why?  He belongs to Utah.  Why even imagine him playing on the Celtics team?  He is not that good based on the OP stat.  What is it about him that makes him keep coming up on people radar?

    [/QUOTE]


    He's young, he's a RFA......probably wants more than Utah will offer, and has a history with Stevens!

    PLUS - it will put to rest all the people out there who say we can't sign any free agents!

    [/QUOTE]


    Except for Stevens history part, there are many other players in the same categories and probably many that are much better.  Again, why him?

    [/QUOTE]


    Such as?

     

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from chris33. Show chris33's posts

    Re: Gordon Heyward: Less Efficient than the Big Dig

    In response to hedleylamarr's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Not a superstar.......but pair him with Rondo and Green and he'll be a better player (offensively) than either Bradley or Crawford.

    [/QUOTE]


    I'd rather have Crawford.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from hedleylamarr. Show hedleylamarr's posts

    Re: Gordon Heyward: Less Efficient than the Big Dig

    In response to chris33's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to hedleylamarr's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Not a superstar.......but pair him with Rondo and Green and he'll be a better player (offensively) than either Bradley or Crawford.

    [/QUOTE]


    I'd rather have Crawford.

    [/QUOTE]


    Understandable.  I'd rather let Bradley go, sign Hayward and keep Crawford as a rotation guard.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from KJandHondo. Show KJandHondo's posts

    Re: Gordon Heyward: Less Efficient than the Big Dig

    In response to scubber's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to hedleylamarr's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to scubber's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to hedleylamarr's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Not a superstar.......but pair him with Rondo and Green and he'll be a better player (offensively) than either Bradley or Crawford.

    [/QUOTE]


    Why?  He belongs to Utah.  Why even imagine him playing on the Celtics team?  He is not that good based on the OP stat.  What is it about him that makes him keep coming up on people radar?

    [/QUOTE]


    He's young, he's a RFA......probably wants more than Utah will offer, and has a history with Stevens!

    PLUS - it will put to rest all the people out there who say we can't sign any free agents!

    [/QUOTE]


    Except for Stevens history part, there are many other players in the same categories and probably many that are much better.  Again, why him?

    [/QUOTE]

    Exactly! Why Hayward other than Stevens was a coach? RFAs that are statistically (and Realistically) better that would make more sense to pursue:

    Jordan Hamilton (36% 3pt) , Lance Stevenson (36% 3pt) , Wesley Johnson (36% 3pt), Nick Young aka Swaggy P aka Bean Burrito (36% 3pt), Khris Middleton (43.7% 3pt)

    PS when I can throw in “volume shooters” like Nick Young in there and they shoot more efficiently…

     

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from scubber. Show scubber's posts

    Re: Gordon Heyward: Less Efficient than the Big Dig

    Such as, Evan Turner, Greivis Vasquez, Eric Bledsoe.  Again, all of these players will be signed by their own teams, I am not sure why we are talking about Hayward.  And it is not up to Hayward to want more, Utah will match any reasonable offer.  It makes no sense for the Celtics to overpay to get him.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from KJandHondo. Show KJandHondo's posts

    Re: Gordon Heyward: Less Efficient than the Big Dig

    In response to scubber's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Such as, Evan Turner, Greivis Vasquez, Eric Bledsoe.  Again, all of these players will be signed by their own teams, I am not sure why we are talking about Hayward.  And it is not up to Hayward to want more, Utah will match any reasonable offer.  It makes no sense for the Celtics to overpay to get him.

    [/QUOTE]


    With this topic I was hoping to dispel any Gordon Hayward related myths surrounding him as a good player so as to not have to read anymore trade ideas including or ending in the Celtics acquiring him. I just found it so random the rate at which posters were suggesting DA should trade people like Green or other better players to get him.  Just because he is scoring 16pts per game people actively would ignore how ineffectively he was doing it.  Melo for instance is consistently bashed for his exceeding level of shot attempts but he at least shoots 44.6%FG and 37.5% 3pt.  Yet for Heyward its usually like “this guy is a great scorer” when he by all accounts just shoots a lot. 

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from hedleylamarr. Show hedleylamarr's posts

    Re: Gordon Heyward: Less Efficient than the Big Dig

    In response to KJandHondo's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to scubber's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to hedleylamarr's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to scubber's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to hedleylamarr's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Not a superstar.......but pair him with Rondo and Green and he'll be a better player (offensively) than either Bradley or Crawford.

    [/QUOTE]


    Why?  He belongs to Utah.  Why even imagine him playing on the Celtics team?  He is not that good based on the OP stat.  What is it about him that makes him keep coming up on people radar?

    [/QUOTE]


    He's young, he's a RFA......probably wants more than Utah will offer, and has a history with Stevens!

    PLUS - it will put to rest all the people out there who say we can't sign any free agents!

    [/QUOTE]


    Except for Stevens history part, there are many other players in the same categories and probably many that are much better.  Again, why him?

    [/QUOTE]

    Exactly! Why Hayward other than Stevens was a coach? RFAs that are statistically (and Realistically) better that would make more sense to pursue:

    Jordan Hamilton (36% 3pt) , Lance Stevenson (36% 3pt) , Wesley Johnson (36% 3pt), Nick Young aka Swaggy P aka Bean Burrito (36% 3pt), Khris Middleton (43.7% 3pt)

    PS when I can throw in “volume shooters” like Nick Young in there and they shoot more efficiently…

     

    [/QUOTE]


    Really?

    Jordan Hamilton - Nuggets - contract is UP after this year.....makes him a UFA!

    Wes Johnson - Lakers - ditto

    Nick Young?????  Knucklehead....and I live out here, so I know.  He has a player option for next year anyway.

    Stevenson - Pacers........UFA

    Lastly, Middleton.....nice try, but he won't be a UFA until after next year.

     

    Sooooooo.....tell me  - got any OTHER Restricted Free Agents THIS year that you want to compare to Hayward??

     

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from wicksandrowe. Show wicksandrowe's posts

    Re: Gordon Heyward: Less Efficient than the Big Dig

    Agree that Hayward is not the answer.

    He's neither a pure shooter, nor a pure scorer/shot creator. To get a high level player at one of those two descriptions is critical going forward , and he fits neither bill.

    The wreckage just inflicted on Bradley, Lee, Green, Crawford, et. al. by Tyreke Evans and Reggie Jackson leaves me pining for such an old school, go to the hoop, bucket-hungry point machine.

     

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from scubber. Show scubber's posts

    Re: Gordon Heyward: Less Efficient than the Big Dig

    Going off on a tangent there.  The reason should not only be that he is RFA.  That is mostly irrelavant.  Please give me some good reasons besides RFA why he should be the player to get.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from KJandHondo. Show KJandHondo's posts

    Re: Gordon Heyward: Less Efficient than the Big Dig

    In response to scubber's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Going off on a tangent there.  The reason should not only be that he is RFA.  That is mostly irrelavant.  Please give me some good reasons besides RFA why he should be the player to get.

    [/QUOTE]


    +1

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from BiggerThanMyBrady. Show BiggerThanMyBrady's posts

    Re: Gordon Heyward: Less Efficient than the Big Dig

    Bradley > Hayward. I'd rather keep guys that Boston already has then go out and get a guy that Boston doesn't need. It's fairly obvious that Stevens' is a defensive-minded coach, as he should be IMO, hence why Bradley has more value than Hayward. Bradley has grown a lot this year and he should be rewarded for it. He's arguably the third best player on the team right now. Keep him and show loyalty in his development. I mean the guy is shooting 41% from 3! 

    I like defensive players. Everyone is going to have an off-shooting night, but defense rarely goes away. There's a reason why guys like Tony Allen will ALWAYS have value. I'd rather have Tony Allen over Nick Young (and Nick Young is having a tremendous year so kudos). I'd rather have a guy that can create a headache for opposing teams without the ball in his hands, hence why the Celtics can always have a punchers chance against the Miami Heat. Avery takes Wade, Bron gets a diet of Bass and Green. Those guys will still score, but the effort it will take for both of them to get "theirs" is going to be more than when they play other teams. It comes down to Chris Bosh being effective and Chalmers/Cole/Beasley playing well against Rondo/Sully/Crawford. 

    Avery is developing quite nicely. There's more there considering his young age. And he's playing this well without Boston's best player, who happens to be the team's lead facilitator. Avery Bradley will have a better career than Gordon Hayward. 

     

     

     
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  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from KJandHondo. Show KJandHondo's posts

    Re: Gordon Heyward: Less Efficient than the Big Dig

    In response to Mployee8's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to scubber's comment:

     

    Such as, Evan Turner, Greivis Vasquez, Eric Bledsoe.  Again, all of these players will be signed by their own teams, I am not sure why we are talking about Hayward.  And it is not up to Hayward to want more, Utah will match any reasonable offer.  It makes no sense for the Celtics to overpay to get him.

     




     

    Maybe and maybe not ... The Pierce $10.3MM TPE can't be used to sign a FA. It must be used in a trade. Utah may be happy to do a S&T of Hayward for a nice new TPE of their own. Otherwise the C's have until 7/15/14 (???) to find a trade partner with a player Danny wants.

     That said, Evan Turner and Lance Stephenson are interesting pieces as well and Philly could be interested in a S&T ... Not so sure about Bird though.

    [/QUOTE]


    But why even use a S&T on Hayward, the kid is not effective defensively and not efficient offensively.  And to Clarify I wasn’t saying DA should go get Bean Burrito Nick Young only that his “volume shooting” is way more efficient than the bricks Hayward lays every game.  Hayward’s atrocious stats makes even average players look great.  I just wish 1 poster would give me an actual reason why Hayward is so commonly suggested to go get in whatever fashion be it over or under paying him.  The only player statically having a worse season efficiently speaking is Pressy, so every other guard option is better on the Celtics roster.  In what fantasy is the Celtics a better team with a SG that can barely shoot 30% from deep??

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from scubber. Show scubber's posts

    Re: Gordon Heyward: Less Efficient than the Big Dig

    TPE can be used on all kinds of trading deals and not unique to Hayward and still it does not address why we keep talking this one player named Hayward?  First, the player has to be good and show some promise towards making us a great team.  A so-so trade for a so-so player, while can be interesting, I don't know why it keeps coming up.  Evan Turner, now that gets me a little more excited, but that is another deal that is never going to happen.  I don't mean to quash a discussion but I am seriously curious why his name keeps coming up.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from hedleylamarr. Show hedleylamarr's posts

    Re: Gordon Heyward: Less Efficient than the Big Dig

    In response to scubber's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Going off on a tangent there.  The reason should not only be that he is RFA.  That is mostly irrelavant.  Please give me some good reasons besides RFA why he should be the player to get.

    [/QUOTE]


    Lose the argument, move the goal posts........YOU said there were better RFA's out there.  So, name one!

    There might be - but I think Hayward is better than Bradley or Crawford.  He is NOT better than Evan Turner....that I'll give you.

    The "get Hayward" threads will not stop, however, until we all know what DA wants to do.

    Keep Bradley?  Keep Crawford?  Keep both?  Brooks?

    It is just my opinon that Rondo, Hayward and Green is a very , very good way to start a team.  Add Sully, Oly, 2 picks, and maybe resign Hump....and that is at least a "fun" team!

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from TheBigTicket05. Show TheBigTicket05's posts

    Re: Gordon Heyward: Less Efficient than the Big Dig

    In response to Mployee8's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to wicksandrowe's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Agree that Hayward is not the answer.

    He's neither a pure shooter, nor a pure scorer/shot creator. To get a high level player at one of those two descriptions is critical going forward , and he fits neither bill.

    The wreckage just inflicted on Bradley, Lee, Green, Crawford, et. al. by Tyreke Evans and Reggie Jackson leaves me pining for such an old school, go to the hoop, bucket-hungry point machine.

     

    [/QUOTE]


    Evan Turner!!!!

    [/QUOTE]

    Im with you on this one. stephenson/turner over hayward

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from celticsince1958. Show celticsince1958's posts

    Re: Gordon Heyward: Less Efficient than the Big Dig

    In response to chris33's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to hedleylamarr's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Not a superstar.......but pair him with Rondo and Green and he'll be a better player (offensively) than either Bradley or Crawford.

    [/QUOTE]


    I'd rather have Crawford. 

     

    [/QUOTE]

    I totally agree about Crawford

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from scubber. Show scubber's posts

    Re: Gordon Heyward: Less Efficient than the Big Dig

    In response to hedleylamarr's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to scubber's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Going off on a tangent there.  The reason should not only be that he is RFA.  That is mostly irrelavant.  Please give me some good reasons besides RFA why he should be the player to get.

    [/QUOTE]


    Lose the argument, move the goal posts........YOU said there were better RFA's out there.  So, name one!

    There might be - but I think Hayward is better than Bradley or Crawford.  He is NOT better than Evan Turner....that I'll give you.

    The "get Hayward" threads will not stop, however, until we all know what DA wants to do.

    Keep Bradley?  Keep Crawford?  Keep both?  Brooks?

    It is just my opinon that Rondo, Hayward and Green is a very , very good way to start a team.  Add Sully, Oly, 2 picks, and maybe resign Hump....and that is at least a "fun" team!

    [/QUOTE]

    Why does it have to be RFA?  Not trying to win any argument, just want to understand what is so important about Hayward?  If he is better than Bradley or Crawford, at best, he is marginally better.  To me, it is a side-way replacement.  I don't like any of them to be honest.

     
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