HERE'S Y THIS IS RAY'S LAST YEAR IN GREEN NO MATTER WHAT

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from COMMUNIST-CONTRARIAN. Show COMMUNIST-CONTRARIAN's posts

    HERE'S Y THIS IS RAY'S LAST YEAR IN GREEN NO MATTER WHAT

    I LOVE RAY AS MUCH AS ANYONE ELSE BUT all THINGS HAVE TO END unfortunately in life. We have 8 unrestricted free agents (incl bass who has a player's option). IF CELTS somehow re-sign Ray (8m or so), along with kg, piet, jeff green, give a guaranteed multi-year deal to steamer and so forth, they will be slightly over the cap. ainge has been adamant that he wil not go over the cap in the next 2 years as the lower CBA minimums kick in. doc has made it clear that he loves peaches for the intensity he brings and how the team plays defense and rallies around that intensity.

    my sources tell me that had piet not been hurt in the previous philly game that he would have been the STARTER over AB and ray. the facts also back it up. the celts give up 87 point per 100 possessions with piet in there as opposed to close to a 100 with ray in there. for doc, it all starts and ends with DEFENSE. plus you have outstanding size and quickness with peaches as well. with his recent injury history and comfort in boston, he will cost us very little to bring back. he's a value chip. i believe ray is the odd man out for next season. he can shoot but we have enough other guys including Moore, Green (potentially), KG, improving AB, Peaches in the clutch, and PP with that skillset. Heck, if we draft an Austin Rivers, we would have a bona fide Ray.

    Bottom line, for one season, its to our benefit to bring back the cavalry minus Ray as we transition to the next phase of celtics lore!
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Celtsfan4life. Show Celtsfan4life's posts

    Re: HERE'S Y THIS IS RAY'S LAST YEAR IN GREEN NO MATTER WHAT

    I don't think you can tell if Ray will be back because there are way too many factors at play.

    1. What amount of money will Jeff Green want?
    2. Will KG come back and for how much?
    3. How much will Ray want to come back and come off the bench.
    4. How much will they have to give Steimsma?
    5. HOw much will they have to spend on a free agent or will they be doing any trades that bring in expensive players?

    Just too many variables.   And another thing:   Ray is a rare shooter.  There is no one on this team (not Pietrus, not Moore, not anyone) that can shoot like Ray so I can't agree with you there.  So, he may not be back, but like when PJ Brown didn't come back or Posey didn't come back or Tony Allen didn't come back - we will miss what Ray provided.  We may make up for it in other ways, but no one will provide us the big 3 pointers like he did.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from COMMUNIST-CONTRARIAN. Show COMMUNIST-CONTRARIAN's posts

    Re: HERE'S Y THIS IS RAY'S LAST YEAR IN GREEN NO MATTER WHAT

    In Response to Re: HERE'S Y THIS IS RAY'S LAST YEAR IN GREEN NO MATTER WHAT:
    [QUOTE]I don't think you can tell if Ray will be back because there are way too many factors at play. 1. What amount of money will Jeff Green want? 2. Will KG come back and for how much? 3. How much will Ray want to come back and come off the bench. 4. How much will they have to give Steimsma? 5. HOw much will they have to spend on a free agent or will they be doing any trades that bring in expensive players? Just too many variables.   And another thing:   Ray is a rare shooter.  There is no one on this team (not Pietrus, not Moore, not anyone) that can shoot like Ray so I can't agree with you there.  So, he may not be back, but like when PJ Brown didn't come back or Posey didn't come back or Tony Allen didn't come back - we will miss what Ray provided.  We may make up for it in other ways, but no one will provide us the big 3 pointers like he did.
    Posted by Celtsfan4life[/QUOTE]
    comrade, i agree wholeheartedly on your points with ray and the 3-pointer. it will be missed. he's by far the best in the league by how he works for it and get it off in any situation with that quick trigger of his. off the dribble, catch and shoot, off screens, and so forth. but you have to counter that by asking if its worth losing what the others provide too and loook at the ages. no way green would ask for more $ than ray would.. period!

    kg would take whatever ray was taking.. bottom line, i would rather overpay a big guy free gent like a kris humphries or a hibbert than spend big at a position we have a SURPLUS in. other teams do not have our guard/swingman surplus and ease of swingman system. clearly we have a tough time producing big men. pvavlovic, quis, moore, AB, and peaches have all contributed in ray's and paul's absence at various times.

     if i were the lakers, knicks, bulls, heat and others, i would happily pay top market value for ray... for us, even paying 5m to him is overpaying not because he's not good but because we can better allocate that resource elsewhere. i would rather pay kris humphries that $ plus $4m more than blow my load on ray and not be able to entice a high caliber younger big guy! got it?
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Gasthoerer. Show Gasthoerer's posts

    Re: HERE'S Y THIS IS RAY'S LAST YEAR IN GREEN NO MATTER WHAT

    Without Ray we just have one above average 3 point shooter in Pierce. That is not enough for a team to spread the floor. And if Green is able to come back even close to the level he was (and actually he has to be much better than he was to top Rays production), is highly uncertain. In the last games with reduced minutes, Ray played good defense too. If you have Bradley, Allen has much more worth to the team than Pietrus.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from heirplain. Show heirplain's posts

    Re: HERE'S Y THIS IS RAY'S LAST YEAR IN GREEN NO MATTER WHAT

    In Response to HERE'S Y THIS IS RAY'S LAST YEAR IN GREEN NO MATTER WHAT:
    [QUOTE]I LOVE RAY AS MUCH AS ANYONE ELSE BUT all THINGS HAVE TO END unfortunately in life. We have 8 unrestricted free agents (incl bass who has a player's option). IF CELTS somehow re-sign Ray (8m or so), along with kg, piet, jeff green, give a guaranteed multi-year deal to steamer and so forth, they will be slightly over the cap. ainge has been adamant that he wil not go over the cap in the next 2 years as the lower CBA minimums kick in. doc has made it clear that he loves peaches for the intensity he brings and how the team plays defense and rallies around that intensity. my sources tell me that had piet not been hurt in the previous philly game that he would have been the STARTER over AB and ray. the facts also back it up. the celts give up 87 point per 100 possessions with piet in there as opposed to close to a 100 with ray in there. for doc, it all starts and ends with DEFENSE. plus you have outstanding size and quickness with peaches as well. with his recent injury history and comfort in boston, he will cost us very little to bring back. he's a value chip. i believe ray is the odd man out for next season. he can shoot but we have enough other guys including Moore, Green (potentially), KG, improving AB, Peaches in the clutch, and PP with that skillset. Heck, if we draft an Austin Rivers, we would have a bona fide Ray. Bottom line, for one season, its to our benefit to bring back the cavalry minus Ray as we transition to the next phase of celtics lore!
    Posted by COMMUNIST-CONTRARIAN[/QUOTE]

    No Way..Ray will be here!
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from COMMUNIST-CONTRARIAN. Show COMMUNIST-CONTRARIAN's posts

    Re: HERE'S Y THIS IS RAY'S LAST YEAR IN GREEN NO MATTER WHAT

    In Response to Re: HERE'S Y THIS IS RAY'S LAST YEAR IN GREEN NO MATTER WHAT:
    [QUOTE]Without Ray we just have one above average 3 point shooter in Pierce. That is not enough for a team to spread the floor. And if Green is able to come back even close to the level he was (and actually he has to be much better than he was to top Rays production), is highly uncertain. In the last games with reduced minutes, Ray played good defense too. If you have Bradley, Allen has much more worth to the team than Pietrus.
    Posted by Gasthoerer[/QUOTE]
    If you have Bradley, Allen has much more worth to the team than Pietrus.


    BUT AT WHAT PRICE MY FRIEND! i agree with you if they were at the exact same price. is allen worth 3 or times more than pietrus on this team? i say NO! we have to cut costs from somewhere. Green is STILL young and still has a huge upside. based on value, of all the guys at that guard/swingman position, to me ray is the odd guy out. Just my opinion but i respect yours as well.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Celtsfan4life. Show Celtsfan4life's posts

    Re: HERE'S Y THIS IS RAY'S LAST YEAR IN GREEN NO MATTER WHAT

    In Response to Re: HERE'S Y THIS IS RAY'S LAST YEAR IN GREEN NO MATTER WHAT:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: HERE'S Y THIS IS RAY'S LAST YEAR IN GREEN NO MATTER WHAT : comrade, i agree wholeheartedly on your points with ray and the 3-pointer. it will be missed. he's by far the best in the league by how he works for it and get it off in any situation with that quick trigger of his. off the dribble, catch and shoot, off screens, and so forth. but you have to counter that by asking if its worth losing what the others provide too and loook at the ages. no way green would ask for more $ than ray would.. period! kg would take whatever ray was taking.. bottom line, i would rather overpay a big guy free gent like a kris humphries or a hibbert than spend big at a position we have a SURPLUS in. other teams do not have our guard/swingman surplus and ease of swingman system. clearly we have a tough time producing big men. pvavlovic, quis, moore, AB, and peaches have all contributed in ray's and paul's absence at various times.  if i were the lakers, knicks, bulls, heat and others, i would happily pay top market value for ray... for us, even paying 5m to him is overpaying not because he's not good but because we can better allocate that resource elsewhere. i would rather pay kris humphries that $ plus $4m more than blow my load on ray and not be able to entice a high caliber younger big guy! got it?
    Posted by COMMUNIST-CONTRARIAN[/QUOTE]

    My friend, I do have an opinion on whether or not we should lose Ray, but I wasn't expressing it in my original post.  I was really just trying to say that if we DO lose him, his 3 point shooting won't be replaced and we will miss it.   I didn't want anyone to think "Ray's skills are easily replaced with others on this team" which is what I thought you were implying.   That I could not agree with.  

    As to retaining Ray - I agree we shouldn't overpay him.  We need more youth and a big man.  We need cap room to find him if possible.   But, I think that unless someone gives Ray big money, he will sign with the C's, as will KG.  These guys are different than many of the young players.  They believe in each other, they believe in Doc, and they believe in the Celtics.   I don't think they believe in Danny, however (and I don't blame them).  Danny is a business man - Doc is their fellow warrior.

    I predict we will get Ray back at a reasonable price because he wants to be here and Danny will find a way to retain him AFTER he signs others.

    As for Jeff Green - he was taking $9M this year.  He now sees how fragile his career can be.  He will go for all he can possibly get (and rightfully so).  I see him getting MORE than $10M and I see Ray getting much less than $10M.  And....Green will deserve it - he's a 6'9" athletic guy who's young and can shoot, run, and pass well.  Ray is older and already made his money.   So, yes, I think Green will get more than Ray. Green represents the future.  Ray is on the last year or two of his basketball career.  

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from OneOnOne. Show OneOnOne's posts

    Re: HERE'S Y THIS IS RAY'S LAST YEAR IN GREEN NO MATTER WHAT

    Ray could come of the bench for 2-3 more years if he can accept that.  Not sure he wants to do that.  He could even challenge for the 6th man award if he can accept it.  We will find out if starting is more inportant to him in the coming months.  I hope its not.  I love having him on the second team.  Like I said he should get more shots,  PP and KG get more shots and I think those 3 guys should get more shots.  If he can swallow his pride and come of the bench it would be great.  KG I don't think needs to be a bench player and I don't think he can handle it. Not sure PP could handle it either.  One thing for certain is we have to get younger and with AB in there we only have 2 older guys and with PP getting player of the month with all the good players in the east, that says alot about what he can do.  Think about it, most people still complain about him everygame during a thread about quit trying to be a hero , etc.  Well  he obviously can still bring it even shooting as bad as he has.  I don't think we have to overhaul next year as much as just retool with a couple of good players.
     
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