Hindsight is 20-20

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from breaktime. Show breaktime's posts

    Hindsight is 20-20

    Couldn't believe it when I read this.

    "One other thing: There's no longer a need to pencil in Bradley as a temporary starter. Put it in ink. Rivers revealed Sunday that he's wanted to bring Ray Allen off the bench for close to two seasons."

    Link doesn't elaborate on River thought processes over the last few season regarding this, but here it is anyway:
     http://espn.go.com/boston/nba/story/_/id/7790858/boston-celtics-positioning-contenders

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from puddinpuddin. Show puddinpuddin's posts

    Re: Hindsight is 20-20

    The notion that doc "waited" for two seasons to bring Ray off the bench is utterly embarrassing and suggests that doc is much more a friend than a coach.

    And then when it happens, doc somehow turns it around and suggests that Ray asked to come off the bench???... and doc probably tried to talk him out of it... but alas... after sleeping on it for a fortnight.... reluctantly.... acquiesced.

    What a total weanie.

    Pud
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Gasthoerer. Show Gasthoerer's posts

    Re: Hindsight is 20-20

    The most interesting sentence on this link:
    "As teams watch more film of Bradley, those back-door cuts he has been feasting on will dissipate. Philadelphia spent some time forcing Rondo to give up the ball so it could exploit Bradley's dribbling weaknesses."

    Like I said teams often win when a started is out, cause the opponent is not prepared and the replacement is highly motivated. By the way: Miami is 10-1 without Wade, maybe we can trade hime for Allen or Moore?
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Celtsfan4life. Show Celtsfan4life's posts

    Re: Hindsight is 20-20

    In Response to Re: Hindsight is 20-20:
    [QUOTE]The notion that doc "waited" for two seasons to bring Ray off the bench is utterly embarrassing and suggests that doc is much more a friend than a coach. And then when it happens, doc somehow turns it around and suggests that Ray asked to come off the bench???... and doc probably tried to talk him out of it... but alas... after sleeping on it for a fortnight.... reluctantly.... acquiesced. What a total weanie. Pud
    Posted by puddinpuddin[/QUOTE]


    I think the real issue is that Doc feels there's never been a guard good enough to play the starting role.   So who would YOU have put as starting guard for us last year or two years ago?   We didn't have the player to pull that off.  
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from snakeoil123. Show snakeoil123's posts

    Re: Hindsight is 20-20

    In Response to Re: Hindsight is 20-20:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Hindsight is 20-20 : I think the real issue is that Doc feels there's never been a guard good enough to play the starting role.   So who would YOU have put as starting guard for us last year or two years ago?   We didn't have the player to pull that off.  
    Posted by Celtsfan4life[/QUOTE]

    Yep that is obviously the point. Bradley has shown that he can play minutes. Rivers is saying that he wanted to do it but didn't feel that he had the players to do it, not that he wanted to but was scared to death.

    Pud has some issues understanding nuances.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from puddinpuddin. Show puddinpuddin's posts

    Re: Hindsight is 20-20

    In Response to Re: Hindsight is 20-20:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Hindsight is 20-20 : I think the real issue is that Doc feels there's never been a guard good enough to play the starting role.   So who would YOU have put as starting guard for us last year or two years ago?   We didn't have the player to pull that off.  
    Posted by Celtsfan4life[/QUOTE]

    Dunno... I would have prayed over it for a while and awaited a signal from the BB God as to what to do.

    All good thing take time. Things will work out. In the meantime,  I might be tempted to resign Ray for two years because he's a good guy and I'm a good guy... which we did... limiting our choices greatly.

    Never, ever crossed my mind to trade Ray while he had serious value... or to draft for that position. NEVER!!!

    All's well that ends well. No feathers ruffled. Stay the course.

    Coach Puddinhead
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hetchinspete. Show Hetchinspete's posts

    Re: Hindsight is 20-20

    In Response to Re: Hindsight is 20-20:
    [QUOTE]The notion that doc "waited" for two seasons to bring Ray off the bench is utterly embarrassing and suggests that doc is much more a friend than a coach. And then when it happens, doc somehow turns it around and suggests that Ray asked to come off the bench???... and doc probably tried to talk him out of it... but alas... after sleeping on it for a fortnight.... reluctantly.... acquiesced. What a total weanie. Pud
    Posted by puddinpuddin[/QUOTE]

    Puddin, 

    You misinterpret the entire issue, that is if Doc had someone available to start he would have, but they've had no one ready to step in. The only Weenie he is you. 

    Hetchinspete
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from puddinpuddin. Show puddinpuddin's posts

    Re: Hindsight is 20-20

    In Response to Re: Hindsight is 20-20:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Hindsight is 20-20 : Puddin,  You misinterpret the entire issue, that is if Doc had someone available to start he would have, but they've had no one ready to step in. The only Weenie he is you.  Hetchinspete
    Posted by Hetchinspete[/QUOTE]

    No doubt I misinterpret every entire issue... so what's new?

    They no doubt didn't anticipate such a need for a young SG, thinking that time would stand perfectly still for the Big 3, that management could ignore the ravages of mileage/time on an already marginal defender's body with a history of bad ankles but with a continuing good stroke.

    I agree with the poster who suggested that Ray should have immediately been turned into the 6th man after 2007-8... aka: F-O-R-E-S-I-G-H-T!!!

    I think maybe it was acie.. but he is another weanie too.

    Pud
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from LloydDobler. Show LloydDobler's posts

    Re: Hindsight is 20-20

    In Response to Re: Hindsight is 20-20:
    [QUOTE]The notion that doc "waited" for two seasons to bring Ray off the bench is utterly embarrassing and suggests that doc is much more a friend than a coach. And then when it happens, doc somehow turns it around and suggests that Ray asked to come off the bench???... and doc probably tried to talk him out of it... but alas... after sleeping on it for a fortnight.... reluctantly.... acquiesced. What a total weanie. Pud
    Posted by puddinpuddin[/QUOTE]
    Either that, Barn, or it suggests that he couldn't find the right situation to do it until now.
    Amazing to me that anyone could complain about Doc this season.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from snakeoil123. Show snakeoil123's posts

    Re: Hindsight is 20-20

    In Response to Re: Hindsight is 20-20:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Hindsight is 20-20 : No doubt I misinterpret every entire issue ... so what's new? They no doubt didn't anticipate such a need for a young SG, thinking that time would stand perfectly still for the Big 3, that management could ignore the ravages of mileage/time on an already marginal defender's body with a history of bad ankles but with a continuing good stroke. I agree with the poster who suggested that Ray should have immediately been turned into the 6th man after 2007-8... aka: F-O-R-E-S-I-G-H-T!!! I think maybe it was acie.. but he is another weanie too. Pud
    Posted by puddinpuddin[/QUOTE]

    Bradley is a SG. He didn't play point in college.  They drafted him last year.

       Regardless your original point was that Doc was a Weenie for not having the guts to start someone else, now you have run away from that point and changed it entirely, trying to make the point that they should have drafted a shooting guard. Which in fact they did.  The one that is starting right now.

    Have some coffee or something.




     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from breaktime. Show breaktime's posts

    Re: Hindsight is 20-20

    I can only guess why Doc needed to be prodded by Ray into doing something he (Doc) had been considering for a few years.
    Seeing how NBA coaches these days can find themselves subject to the whims of their players, maybe Doc was treading slowly because of how things are in the league now.  Witness Dwight Howard and Van Gundy or Doug Collin's cautiousness in upsetting players feelings as was written about recently.
    Or maybe, Doc's just very reticent to change things he doesn't see as irretrievably broken.
     
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from snakeoil123. Show snakeoil123's posts

    Re: Hindsight is 20-20

    In Response to Re: Hindsight is 20-20:
    [QUOTE]I can only guess why Doc needed to be prodded by Ray into doing something he (Doc) had been considering for a few years. Seeing how NBA coaches these days can find themselves subject to the whims of their players, maybe Doc was treading slowly because of how things are in the league now.  Witness Dwight Howard and Van Gundy or Doug Collin's cautiousness in upsetting players feelings as was written about recently. Or maybe, Doc's just very reticent to change things he doesn't see as irretrievably broken.  
    Posted by breaktime[/QUOTE]

    He didn't have any other 2 guards that he trusted to play minutes until now.  It isn't much of a guess.  Try and think or someone that he could start at the 2 who could play 30 minutes over the past 2 years.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from LloydDobler. Show LloydDobler's posts

    Re: Hindsight is 20-20

    In Response to Re: Hindsight is 20-20:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Hindsight is 20-20 : He didn't have any other 2 guards that he trusted to play minutes until now.  It isn't much of a guess.  Try and think or someone that he could start at the 2 who could play 30 minutes over the past 2 years.
    Posted by snakeoil123[/QUOTE]
    +1
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from puddinpuddin. Show puddinpuddin's posts

    Re: Hindsight is 20-20

    In Response to Re: Hindsight is 20-20:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Hindsight is 20-20 : Either that, Barn, or it suggests that he couldn't find the right situation to do it until now. Amazing to me that anyone could complain about Doc this season.
    Posted by LloydDobler[/QUOTE]

    The right situation being that the Cs are struggling mightily to get into the playoffs earlier this year.... forcing his hand.... finally after years of indecision and angst.

    Necessity has been known to be  the mother of invention.

    Sounds to me like doc needs to be less of a group therapist and more of a coach.

    Pud
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from snakeoil123. Show snakeoil123's posts

    Re: Hindsight is 20-20

    In Response to Re: Hindsight is 20-20:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Hindsight is 20-20 : The right situation being that the Cs are struggling mightily to get into the playoffs earlier this year.... forcing his hand.... finally after years of indecision and angst. Necessity has been known to be  the mother of invention. Sounds to me like doc needs to be less of a group therapist and more of a coach. Pud
    Posted by puddinpuddin[/QUOTE]

    Or that he now has a decent 2 guard he can put in the rotation.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from breaktime. Show breaktime's posts

    Re: Hindsight is 20-20

    In Response to Re: Hindsight is 20-20:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Hindsight is 20-20 : He didn't have any other 2 guards that he trusted to play minutes until now.  It isn't much of a guess.  Try and think or someone that he could start at the 2 who could play 30 minutes over the past 2 years.
    Posted by snakeoil123[/QUOTE]
    Ok, off the top of my pointy little head, last two years, we've had Nate Robinson, Delonte, Quis, Von Wafer, Tony Allen, JR Giddens, and probably a few more.
    Delonte kept getting injured, but Tony Allen might have worked.
    Maybe you got a point there.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from snakeoil123. Show snakeoil123's posts

    Re: Hindsight is 20-20

    In Response to Re: Hindsight is 20-20:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Hindsight is 20-20 : Ok, off the top of my pointy little head, last two years, we've had Nate Robinson, Delonte, Quis, Von Wafer, Tony Allen, JR Giddens, and probably a few more. Delonte kept getting injured, but Tony Allen might have worked. Maybe you got a point there.
    Posted by breaktime[/QUOTE]

    Allen hasn't been there over the last two years.  I am assuming "close to two seasons" means this year and last.  And Delonte should not be a 30 minute a game player even when healthy.  Which he wasn't last year.


     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Re: Hindsight is 20-20

    Delonte should have started last year, esp vs. Miami in the playoffs, but he was also suspended/hurt for most of the reg season.

    Ray was goign to ahve to go to Doc and offer to come off the bench as he did, apparently Doc wasn't going to do any asking

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from cole-ely. Show cole-ely's posts

    Re: Hindsight is 20-20

    It just goes to further my already deep admiration for Ray's professionalism.  How many guys would make it that easy to bench them?  Esp guys with ray's credentials.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Red-16Russ-11. Show Red-16Russ-11's posts

    Re: Hindsight is 20-20

    In Response to Re: Hindsight is 20-20:
    [QUOTE]Delonte should have started last year, esp vs. Miami in the playoffs, but he was also suspended/hurt for most of the reg season. Ray was goign to ahve to go to Doc and offer to come off the bench as he did, apparently Doc wasn't going to do any asking
    Posted by rameakap[/QUOTE]


    Think Delonte will come back next year for cheap money?
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from CASox. Show CASox's posts

    Re: Hindsight is 20-20

    In Response to Re: Hindsight is 20-20:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Hindsight is 20-20 : Allen hasn't been there over the last two years.  I am assuming "close to two seasons" means this year and last.  And Delonte should not be a 30 minute a game player even when healthy.  Which he wasn't last year.
    Posted by snakeoil123[/QUOTE]

    Wait, so youre saying AB deserves 30 mins but Delonte doesnt? So in essence, AB is better than Delonte?
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from snakeoil123. Show snakeoil123's posts

    Re: Hindsight is 20-20

    In Response to Re: Hindsight is 20-20:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Hindsight is 20-20 : Wait, so youre saying AB deserves 30 mins but Delonte doesnt? So in essence, AB is better than Delonte?
    Posted by CASox[/QUOTE]

    AB is WAY better than Delonte defensively.  Offensively Delonte average 9 points a game in 27 minutes a game for his career, an average offensive player at best.

    Factoring in the fact that Delonte has serious mental health issues yeah I am saying that. There isn't a GM in the NBA that would trade Bradley for Delonte.

    None of this is to say I think Bradley is amazing, I just think dont much of Delonte.  He is just an average player when not on the DL or under suspension for criminal activities.

    I also was talking about last year.  West only played 24 games all year and played 18 minutes a game.  He was a non factor.



     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Re: Hindsight is 20-20

    No thanks to Delonte for next season now that we have Bradley.

    We need a 4th guard who can start even if we keep Ray, who should be able to give 2 more years but only as a 20-24 min guys next year and 16-20 min guy the year after.

    Many here like the idea of OJ Mayo and I think he'd be electric with Avery or rondo in the backcourt.

    There are also several options in a deep draft. I like Waiters a lot.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Red-16Russ-11. Show Red-16Russ-11's posts

    Re: Hindsight is 20-20

    In Response to Re: Hindsight is 20-20:
    [QUOTE]No thanks to Delonte for next season now that we have Bradley. We need a 4th guard who can start even if we keep Ray, who should be able to give 2 more years but only as a 20-24 min guys next year and 16-20 min guy the year after. Many here like the idea of OJ Mayo and I think he'd be electric with Avery or rondo in the backcourt. There are also several options in a deep draft. I like Waiters a lot.
    Posted by rameakap[/QUOTE]

    I like Waiters, Rivers, Lamb and Mayo!
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from davidap. Show davidap's posts

    Re: Hindsight is 20-20

    The Celtics can probably address SG via the draft. I'd also like to see Mickael Pietrus re-signed for 1 year at the veteran's minimum. The concussion injury might fortuitously make that a reasonable possibility.

    I'm not sure the Celtics really need Ray Allen beyond this season if they sign OJ Mayo. It'll probably come down to money. If Allen is willing to return for a relative pittance, it's hard to pass that up. He's still one of the best pure shooters in the league, and very clutch.

    Possible SG fits via the draft:

    1. Austin Rivers
    2. Doron Lamb
    3. Dion Waiters
    4. Tony Wroten
    5. William Buford

    After Buford, I'm not sure there's much value at the SG spot in the draft. The Celtics would be better off keeping Pavlovic as a third-stringer, if need be, and using their picks on other positions.
     
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