How fun would the 1990-1993 playoffs have been if Red didn't mess 1989 up so badly?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    How fun would the 1990-1993 playoffs have been if Red didn't mess 1989 up so badly?

    Moves Red needed to make in 1989 after Bird went out for the season 6 games in with surgery to remove bone spurs from his ankles

    Step 1 - Trade McHale (and the screws in his foot) for Detlef Schrempf and Sam Perkins. The offer was on the table from the Mavs and going to be accepted when Red made a stink.

    Step 2 - Don't trade Danny Ainge for Ed Pinckney and Joe Kleine (wouldn't have happened if McHale trade did).

    Step 3 - Draft Tim Hardaway instead of bust Michael Smith like you were about to and EVERYONE in the organization wanted.

    Step 4 - Don't lowball Brian Shaw with the minmim RFA offer after he exceeded expectations as a rookie. Pay him fair value and he doesn't run to Italy for a year.

    Step 5 - Replace Jimmy Rogers a year earlier with the modern thinking uptempo offensive coach perfect for Hardway, Shaw and Lewis in Chris Ford.

    Step 6 - Give a mandate to Ford to rest his old guys. Rogers played Bird an idiotic 39.3 minutes a game that year, just destroyed him physically), DJ would not have played 27mpg b/c of Hardaway and Shaw and Parish was rested a bit (30mpg) but b/c Kleine was such a stiff Perkins would have gotten him more.

    Step 7- Ford makes Lewis the 6th man, Ainge starts and Reggie splits his time at SG/SF rather than Rogers throwing him into the starting SG role to replace Shaw and Lewis regressing after his breakout year at SF in 1989 replacing the hurt Bird.

    There you go, 7 easy steps back in 1989 to make the Celtics 90's rebuild consist of 4 super competitive playoff runs with a title a serious possibility and then a firesale in 1993/1994 of guys like Schrempf, Hardaway, Shaw and Perkins who had ACTUAL value and were not worthless like McHale and Parish were by 1992.

     
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  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from BostonTrollSpanker. Show BostonTrollSpanker's posts

    Re: How fun would the 1990-1993 playoffs have been if Red didn't mess 1989 up so badly?

    Yeah, you could have done better than Red. I hope you seriously aren't that delusional.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Re: How fun would the 1990-1993 playoffs have been if Red didn't mess 1989 up so badly?

    Tim Hardaway from1991-1993 was an all-star 22/10 PG who just destroyed people. He was just as much better than B.J. Armstrong (10ppg/3.5apg) as Jordan (31.5/6.5/5.5) was better than Reggie Lewis (20/5/2.5).

    Lewis also always played great against Jordan. If that would be a draw every time the two teams played, Lewis/Hardaway vs. Jordan/Armstong, than what would determine the rest of a series?

    Ainge and Parish were slightly older but actually had better numbers than Paxton and Cartwright. That is at least a wash.

    Pippen would hound Bird and win that matchup for sure. Not in 1990, but probably by 1991 and definitely in 1992 and 1993 (if Bird played an extra year). A healthier Bird would have the post skills and craftiness to keep it close. If Larry wasn't physically beaten to crap by Jimmy Rogers after bone spur surgery, maybe he gives playoff games like the averages from his 4 best in 1990 (26.5p/11.5r/11a) over the course of the entire 1990 and 1991 playoffs? Maybe his averages from his 4 best games in 1991 (22.5p/9a/8.5r) are what he gives over the course of the entire 1992 and 1993 playoffs?

    Perkins (16/7.5) and Horance Grant (13/9.5) were also pretty similar. While Grant and Pippen were both slightly better than Bird and Perkins those years, the Bulls had nobody like Schrempf, Shaw and DJ leading to Dee down their bench. Stacey King, Craig Hodges and Dennis Hopson did not stand a chance.

    I'm telling you, if Red hadn't completely BLOWN 1989 and gone against the advise of those around him the Celtics could have won the 1990 NBA championship and had some memorable battles with the Bulls during their 3-peat and who knows, maybe knocked 'em off one of those years if Tim Hardaway just went off and Lewis somewhat limited MJ.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Re: How fun would the 1990-1993 playoffs have been if Red didn't mess 1989 up so badly?

    In response to BostonTrollSpanker's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Yeah, you could have done better than Red. I hope you seriously aren't that delusional.

    [/QUOTE]

    Delusional?

    Did you see what Red did???

    An entire front office of other decision makers wanted to make the McHale trade and draft Hardaway and Red used his 1960's Celtics are a family and the best players retire as Celtics philosophy to overrule the decision to trade McHale and instead traded Ainge.

    Danny Ainge told Red to make the McHale trade and Kevin as well all know was his best friend on the team.

    Then someone whispered in the ear of a 72 year old Red that 'Michael Smith could be a steal and another Bird' and Red, looking to recapture old glory and outsmart people like he once did, took the 24 year old BUST over Tim Hardaway who EVERYONE ELSE in the front office wanted.

    He than puffed out his chest and offered Brian Shaw the exact same 150k deal he made as a rookie after Shaw won a starting job. Brian laughed at the outdated bullying tactic and took 1 million over in Italy. Shaw said doubling his salary to 300k would have kept him in the states.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Re: How fun would the 1990-1993 playoffs have been if Red didn't mess 1989 up so badly?

    There was probably not a single person ON EARTH who could have done what Red did from 1956-1969.

    There may have been a HANDFUL of basketball minds who could have done what Red did from 1970-1986 and built 5 more title winners in 16 years. The Lakers won 6 titles '72-'88 so he was not the only person in basketball to be able to accomplish that. But, I don't think anyone else could have acquired Cowens and Bird the way he did or pulled off the Joe Barry Carrol for Parish/McHale trade.

    But..... There were a half a dozen people in the Celtics front office who would have done better than him in 1989. And THOUSANDS of intelligent fans or people working for other franchises in the league who would have traded damaged goods McHale and picked Hardaway over Smith. Smith was a borderline 1st rd pick. Hardaway FELL into Boston's lap and was picked up one pick later.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Re: How fun would the 1990-1993 playoffs have been if Red didn't mess 1989 up so badly?

    My father remembers saying 'please don't take him please don't take him' over and over as the Mavs took Randy White 8th, the Bullets Tom Hammonds 9th, the T'Wolves took Pooh Richardson 10th...and then when Hardaway, a top 7 talent was there at 13 and everyone thought the C's had Dennis Johnson's replacement.... MICHAEL SMITH! Good LORD.

    It would have been like Pierce falling into our laps in 1998 and when Stern walked to the podium he announced... 'Pat Garrity'

    It was one of the worst decisions in franchise history.

    And NOTHING Dave Gavitt, who was brought in to take over decision making after Red's 1989 fiasco, did or could not do in 1992 or 1993 was worse than even that one move by Red in 1989, let alone watching McHale daily and knowing he'd lost what made him special, being given a GIFT by the Mavs in TWO healthy, promising 26/28 year old forwards, and turning it down.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from aciemvp. Show aciemvp's posts

    Re: How fun would the 1990-1993 playoffs have been if Red didn't mess 1989 up so badly?

    some good points here- but was bird the type of player who could be dialed down to 28 minutes a night for his own good?  would he have been happy doing that?  could you see bird doing the popovich thing- "DNP- Old"?

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Re: How fun would the 1990-1993 playoffs have been if Red didn't mess 1989 up so badly?

    In response to aciemvp's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    some good points here- but was bird the type of player who could be dialed down to 28 minutes a night for his own good?  would he have been happy doing that?  could you see bird doing the popovich thing- "DNP- Old"?

    [/QUOTE]

    True. I thought of that as I typed it.

    But he'd have been going less crazy on the bench watching Schrempf being subbed in for him over Pinckney/Michael Smith.

    and he'd be promised 38-42 minute playoff games where he wouldn't be subbed the entire 4th quarter. Hindsight is 20-20 of course. But 39.3 minutes the season off of bone spur surgery in both feet was idiotic no matter what era or how you look at it.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Quagmire3. Show Quagmire3's posts

    Re: How fun would the 1990-1993 playoffs have been if Red didn't mess 1989 up so badly?

    In response to rameakap's comment:.

    [/QUOTE]

    Delusional?

    Did you see what Red did???

    An entire front office of other decision makers wanted to make the McHale trade and draft Hardaway and Red used his 1960's Celtics are a family and the best players retire as Celtics philosophy to overrule the decision to trade McHale and instead traded Ainge.

    Danny Ainge told Red to make the McHale trade and Kevin as well all know was his best friend on the team.

    Then someone whispered in the ear of a 72 year old Red that 'Michael Smith could be a steal and another Bird' and Red, looking to recapture old glory and outsmart people like he once did, took the 24 year old BUST over Tim Hardaway who EVERYONE ELSE in the front office wanted.

    He than puffed out his chest and offered Brian Shaw the exact same 150k deal he made as a rookie after Shaw won a starting job. Brian laughed at the outdated bullying tactic and took 1 million over in Italy. Shaw said doubling his salary to 300k would have kept him in the states.

    [/QUOTE]

    someone whispering in Reds ear that Smith was the next Bird had nothing to do with drafting him. Red and others stated on the record years later they drafted Michael Smith from BYU becasue he was a "safe" pick after the Len Bias tragedy. And by safe I mean no drugs, alcohol, or trouble from Smith, not that he could play. I remeber Bulpett writing in training camp that year that he asked Red how the rook (Smith) was doing and Red said "he is a dog." They knew right away they made a mistake taking Smith but it was an overreaction to Bias. 

     
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  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from puddinpuddin. Show puddinpuddin's posts

    Re: How fun would the 1990-1993 playoffs have been if Red didn't mess 1989 up so badly?

    In response to Fiercy's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Don't trust anybody who thinks he's smarter than Red Auerbach.

    It's called mental defect.

    HAHAHA

    [/QUOTE]

    Red's dead, fungus.

    2006... heart attack... at 89.

    So how smart does that make you?

    Pud

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from paulliu. Show paulliu's posts

    Re: How fun would the 1990-1993 playoffs have been if Red didn't mess 1989 up so badly?

    Yeah, it seems that Red--with all due respect--was slippin' by the late 80's and early 90's.

     

    But no one compiled the record he did.  The mistakes he made in his entire career would have constituted a pretty good year for most coach/GM's.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Re: How fun would the 1990-1993 playoffs have been if Red didn't mess 1989 up so badly?

    In response to puddinpuddin's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Fiercy's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Don't trust anybody who thinks he's smarter than Red Auerbach.

    It's called mental defect.

    HAHAHA

    [/QUOTE]

    Red's dead, fungus.

    2006... heart attack... at 89.

    So how smart does that make you?

    Pud

    [/QUOTE]

    Fungus is pathetic

    Red was brilliant but when Bias died he was almost 70 years old and began to make a lot of errors.

    Nowhere do I claim  to be 'smarter than Red Auerbach' as our board bully continues to idiotically claim.

    But the mistakes Red made over 5 months in 1989 set this franchise back in the 1990's more then anything Dave Gavitt did or did not do. Fiercy thinking otherwise and blaming the also deceased Gavitt was wrong and I proved that.

    Fiercy also thought Gavitt was responsible for bringing in Dominique Willkins, when that was Red and ML Carr and Gavitt/Bird wanted nothing to do with 'Nique.

    Why Fiercy drags up old threads that make him look immature and show how he was wrong and I was right is beyond me. 

     
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