It is quite obvious Danny gambled on the O'Neals and didn't expect Green to be quite this bad.
All we had to do is get Shaq back in mid-March, the same time Perk was coming back, and by April 1st have him be a 16 minute, 10 point, 5 rebound 1 block guy he was when we dominated with him at the start.
Then this current JON would have taken over Kristic's 20-24 minutes April 1st and with 36-40 mins of the O'Neal brothers bringing 15-11-4 NOBODY would remember Perk.
Especially if Jeff was just a consistent 11 point, 4 rebound guy who played perimeter D slightly better and showed some emotion on the court.
Ah well, I expected that just like Danny. We got the worst possibl-case scenario. If we get shaq back 2nd rd and Green wakes up a bit, which is still possible, I won't write us off.
But if we lost to LA again with Perk I'd spend this summer wanting Green, Kristic and a '12 pick in the teens over paying Perk 4/34.
How much do you hate Danny Ainge?
-
Re: How much do you hate Danny Ainge?
posted at 4/20/2011 11:16 PM EDT
- rameakap
- Posts: 15229
- First: 11/13/2006
- Last: 5/23/2013
-
Re: How much do you hate Danny Ainge?
posted at 4/21/2011 12:41 AM EDT
- Qdaddy
- Posts: 829
- First: 1/15/2010
- Last: 3/10/2013
In Response to Re: How much do you hate Danny Ainge?:In Response to Re: How much do you hate Danny Ainge? : I think you need to be afraid of Chris Paul.
Posted by jtkl
Watch and learn Vern. -
Re: How much do you hate Danny Ainge?
posted at 4/21/2011 1:59 AM EDT
- edcap99
- Posts: 610
- First: 3/5/2010
- Last: 5/24/2013
I don't hate Danny Ainge. I just don't think he is as brilliant as he is touted to be. No matter what he says in justification, the Perkins trade at mid-season was an awful one and we are paying dearly for it now. Perkins was a sure thing in terms of his defensive toughness. His very presence on the court intimidates opponents much in the same way that Shaq did in his prime. So what if he becomes a free agent next season? That doesn't preclude the team from pursuing him in the off-season. There are a lot of "what-ifs" in the coming off-season, and DA should have just let events run their course. Besides, wasn't the team's primary objective to win #18?
Like Perkins, Jeff Green will be a free agent and there is no certainty the Celtics will be able to sign him. Yes, we got a first round draft pick in that deal. Again, there is no certainty that our pick won't be a bust. DA has the propensity to pick up players and just jettison them later on. Ainge's alleged prowess at scouting talent is over-rated. He always claims to get the best available player from the draft, but many of his selections have been questionable.
Sadly, opponents no longer fear the Celtics and attack the defense with impunity. On Ainge's watch, we have lost our tough guys in Posey, Tony Allen and Perkins. -
Re: How much do you hate Danny Ainge?
posted at 4/21/2011 4:57 AM EDT
- toine83
- Posts: 182
- First: 3/5/2010
- Last: 5/24/2013
Do you really think that Green is part of the Celtics future?
Maybe as a role player not as a superstar -
Re: How much do you hate Danny Ainge?
posted at 4/21/2011 5:48 AM EDT
- BigBaby11
- Posts: 54
- First: 12/31/2010
- Last: 3/13/2012
It would not surprise me if a thread titled "How much do you love Danny Ainge?" will come out if the Celtics win it all this year. -
Re: How much do you hate Danny Ainge?
posted at 4/21/2011 7:21 AM EDT
- JREwing
- Posts: 94
- First: 4/12/2011
- Last: 7/28/2011
In Response to Re: How much do you hate Danny Ainge?:In Response to Re: How much do you hate Danny Ainge? : So you hated Danny Ainge when he was a Celtic player.....hustling, getting into Tree Rollin's head, hitting 3's, etc?
Posted by Celtsfan4life
The Celtics would have been MUCH better of keeping Gerald Henderson SR, and trading Ainge in the Bias deal! -
Re: How much do you hate Danny Ainge?
posted at 4/21/2011 7:29 AM EDT
- Tabuckiss
- Posts: 178
- First: 2/8/2011
- Last: 8/31/2011
Ainge is fine...confident and a gambler...he brought us one championship and had to kick Perk out of town from Perk not signing...Perks own damn fault! Everyone needs to take a breath, sit back, and watch the fun! Quit getting all nervous! -
Re: How much do you hate Danny Ainge?
posted at 4/21/2011 7:51 AM EDT
- Karllost
- Posts: 5069
- First: 2/19/2009
- Last: 5/23/2013
DA brought us a title, the first in a long, long time. Gave us a championship contender for the last 4 years and if not for injuries, we could legitimately be working on a 4 peat this year.
His trade of Perk (which is really what this thread is all about) was good imo. Nobody can forecast Shaq reinjuring himself... thats liable to happen to anyone (see Billups & Amare)
JON is back strong, so DA made the right move. It would be nice to have Perk today KNOWING that Shaq is still out.... but Danny didnt know that back then. Nobody did.
Its sort of like blaming Donnie Walsh & Dolan (Knick GM & owner) for signing Amare and trading away all those players to Denver to get Melo & Billups cause 2 of the 3 are out now with injuries.. Cant work that way -
Re: How much do you hate Danny Ainge?
posted at 4/21/2011 8:25 AM EDT
- Fiercest34
- Posts: 15670
- First: 3/24/2011
- Last: 4/27/2013
In Response to Re: How much do you hate Danny Ainge?:DA brought us a title, the first in a long, long time. Gave us a championship contender for the last 4 years and if not for injuries, we could legitimately be working on a 4 peat this year. His trade of Perk (which is really what this thread is all about) was good imo. Nobody can forecast Shaq reinjuring himself... thats liable to happen to anyone (see Billups & Amare) JON is back strong, so DA made the right move. It would be nice to have Perk today KNOWING that Shaq is still out.... but Danny didnt know that back then. Nobody did. Its sort of like blaming Donnie Walsh & Dolan (Knick GM & owner) for signing Amare and trading away all those players to Denver to get Melo & Billups cause 2 of the 3 are out now with injuries.. Cant work that way
Posted by KarllostShaq got re-injured in a regular season game. Amare got injured in warm-ups, before a playoff game. According to Amare he got injured when he tried to dunk with his right hand while his left hand was reaching for the top of the backboard. Awesome! -
Re: How much do you hate Danny Ainge?
posted at 4/21/2011 8:39 AM EDT
- breaktime
- Posts: 2558
- First: 6/28/2007
- Last: 5/23/2013
Danny's at his best when he's got time to think. Witness the trade for KG. He stayed on the sidelines and accumulated chips, and when it came time, made two great deals (RA & KG).
When he shots from the hip and does trades to plug holes, I don't think too much of him. He's a coin toss at best then. Some pickups (Posey and Brown in 2008, Delonte this year) turn out great or good. Others (Nate Robinson, Jeff Green) have a lot of us initially excited, but head scratching down the road.
I remember how much of a gunner from the 3pt line Danny was as a player. For better or worse, he demonstrates that same quality at times as a GM.
I'll say it again, juries still out on the big trade this year. -
Re: How much do you hate Danny Ainge?
posted at 4/21/2011 11:26 AM EDT
- debrit
- Posts: 219
- First: 2/25/2011
- Last: 5/21/2013
In Response to How much do you hate Danny Ainge?:he lost TA who is the one guy who can defend Kobe and cause him problems. He lost our center Perkins who is an enforcer inside for a couple of softies in Green and Kristic, guys who look good on paper but can not contribute in playoffs when the intensity level rises. How much do you hate Danny Ainge for taking away the championship that was rightfully ours? Now our team will be dismantled. The Big three could only win one championship (2008) and now we start building with only Rondo a viable young player.
Posted by bramrok
Perkins refused 2 extensions offered by the celtics.He was going to walk away after the seasson.Had to be traded so the cdeltics could get something backSome people have a hard time accepting the fact that DA had no choice with Perkins. -
Re: How much do you hate Danny Ainge?
posted at 4/21/2011 11:51 AM EDT
- cshashaty
- Posts: 526
- First: 8/1/2006
- Last: 3/26/2013
I think DA has been terrific. Stop whining about The Trade. JO is better. So is Shaq, when healthy. -
Re: How much do you hate Danny Ainge?
posted at 4/21/2011 12:36 PM EDT
- df2
- Posts: 327
- First: 10/28/2010
- Last: 10/13/2012
I really don't get this "Danny gambled trading Perk" rhetoric that keeps going around. He didn't gamble. He just did something incredibly stupid. When you make a trade and your main rivals response is a mixture of shock and happiness, it was a bad idea.
Danny didn't "gamble" That would have given at least a chance of winning. What Danny did was like someone saying "I'm going to put my hand on this hot burner. I don't think it will burn me." It was pure idiocy.
I don't hate Danny, yet. He was part of bringing a championship to Boston. But his low IQ and blind arrogance scare me. I think if he sticks around long enough, there is a very good chance he plunges this team back into the Dark Ages. I think we all realize how long the damage created by a bad GM can last- even after they are gone. As long as Ainge is the GM I fear for the future of this team.
And as for them having to trade Perk. That's BS. Even if he wasn't going to re-sign, you still keep him and take a shot at another title. You don't think a second title matters to the big three? I can guarantee you it matters to a guy like Paul Pierce who once quoted Michael Jordan when he said "Anybody can win one. That's a fluke. You have to win at least two to prove anything" Trust me a second title means something to Pierce and his legacy. Danny Ainge threw that away.
Instead, they get Jeff Green. A 7th oir 8th man. They traded their starting center for a bench player. Now they have two choices when the season ends: Overpay for a role player and handicap their future. Or let him walk instead of wasting 40-50 million on him. Not that different from the Perk sitution. Only he would have helped them win a championship.
Nobody brings this up because everyone is in love with the Bulls for some reason. I've said all year they are overrated. What if the Celtics have to face the Magic in the playoffs. With no Perk, Howard will destroy the Celtics.
I'm sorry, but people need to stop defending this trade as if anything good could come of it. -
Re: How much do you hate Danny Ainge?
posted at 4/21/2011 1:09 PM EDT
- susan250
- Posts: 6943
- First: 6/19/2009
- Last: 5/23/2013
In Response to Re: How much do you hate Danny Ainge?:I really don't get this "Danny gambled trading Perk" rhetoric that keeps going around. He didn't gamble. He just did something incredibly stupid. When you make a trade and your main rivals response is a mixture of shock and happiness, it was a bad idea. Danny didn't "gamble" That would have given at least a chance of winning. What Danny did was like someone saying "I'm going to put my hand on this hot burner. I don't think it will burn me." It was pure idiocy. I don't hate Danny, yet. He was part of bringing a championship to Boston. But his low IQ and blind arrogance scare me. I think if he sticks around long enough, there is a very good chance he plunges this team back into the Dark Ages. I think we all realize how long the damage created by a bad GM can last- even after they are gone. As long as Ainge is the GM I fear for the future of this team. And as for them having to trade Perk. That's BS. Even if he wasn't going to re-sign, you still keep him and take a shot at another title. You don't think a second title matters to the big three? I can guarantee you it matters to a guy like Paul Pierce who once quoted Michael Jordan when he said "Anybody can win one. That's a fluke. You have to win at least two to prove anything" Trust me a second title means something to Pierce and his legacy. Danny Ainge threw that away. Instead, they get Jeff Green. A 7th oir 8th man. They traded their starting center for a bench player. Now they have two choices when the season ends: Overpay for a role player and handicap their future. Or let him walk instead of wasting 40-50 million on him. Not that different from the Perk sitution. Only he would have helped them win a championship. Nobody brings this up because everyone is in love with the Bulls for some reason. I've said all year they are overrated. What if the Celtics have to face the Magic in the playoffs. With no Perk, Howard will destroy the Celtics. I'm sorry, but people need to stop defending this trade as if anything good could come of it.
Posted by df2
Great post and I definitely agree with you. Everyone keeps bringing up the fact that Perk will probably walk. What difference would it really make if they won the championship this year with Perk? This is probably the last time that the big 3 have a chance of winning a championship. Their may not be a season next year. Even if their is a season next year, our competition in the Eastern Conference is only going to get better next year. Miami, and New York will have another year of playing together and will only improve. -
Re: How much do you hate Danny Ainge?
posted at 4/21/2011 1:19 PM EDT
- IrishPat1591
- Posts: 5
- First: 3/23/2011
- Last: 8/13/2012
He was a pretty good gm, before this season, We traded a great defender in Perk and an offensive live wire in Nate for Green who's a good player but is choking now, and Krstic who's abslolutely terrible
and we basically gave away Erden for absolutely nothing -
Re: How much do you hate Danny Ainge?
posted at 4/21/2011 1:31 PM EDT
- CelticFanLA
- Posts: 1381
- First: 8/15/2009
- Last: 4/6/2013
In Response to Re: How much do you hate Danny Ainge?:He was a pretty good gm, before this season, We traded a great defender in Perk and an offensive live wire in Nate for Green who's a good player but is choking now, and Krstic who's abslolutely terrible and we basically gave away Erden for absolutely nothing
Posted by IrishPat1591
Giving away Erden for nothing was a huge mistake for Ainge, especially with the ailments of Shaq right now. I would consider Danny a good GM, not pretty good. -
Re: How much do you hate Danny Ainge?
posted at 4/21/2011 1:43 PM EDT
- pumpsie-green
- Posts: 9147
- First: 2/2/2006
- Last: 5/23/2013
In Response to How much do you hate Danny Ainge?:he lost TA who is the one guy who can defend Kobe and cause him problems. He lost our center Perkins who is an enforcer inside for a couple of softies in Green and Kristic, guys who look good on paper but can not contribute in playoffs when the intensity level rises. How much do you hate Danny Ainge for taking away the championship that was rightfully ours? Now our team will be dismantled. The Big three could only win one championship (2008) and now we start building with only Rondo a viable young player.
Posted by bramrok
Yeah, and Rondo is a very mediocre player to start a team with...not good. -
Re: How much do you hate Danny Ainge?
posted at 4/21/2011 1:56 PM EDT
- jeffreyu679
- Posts: 13
- First: 1/5/2008
- Last: 5/17/2011
I think the thread title should have read; You Gotta Love Danny Ainge! I'll tell you why... because I love risk takers. And Danny did what he thought he needed to do at the time to make the C's better. If he doesn't make the trade, Perk is starting and JO is coming off the bench. That makes the team marginally better than they are now but not that much better. Certainly not as much as some of the posters here seem to think regarding Perkins. And who would they be playing to back up Pierce at the 3?
If JO and Shaq come back, then it's a trade that made sense. We know that JO is back, Shaq may never come back. We'll see... But I think you've got to respect and root for Danny for being bold and taking a calculated risk. Who knows, the Diesel may be resurrected after all. Don't forget... it's EASTER! -
Re: How much do you hate Danny Ainge?
posted at 4/21/2011 2:00 PM EDT
- painter
- Posts: 892
- First: 5/22/2007
- Last: 5/22/2013
I disliked him as a player, but as a GM he's certainly proven his worth. I just don't understand the hate for him and Doc. If I'm not mistaken, they both have had a hand in they way the Celtics have played in the last three years. I guess 82-0 every year is the only defense against such vitriol. -
Re: How much do you hate Danny Ainge?
posted at 4/21/2011 7:14 PM EDT
- TheDUDDER
- Posts: 2917
- First: 12/2/2008
- Last: 5/4/2012
In Response to Re: How much do you hate Danny Ainge?:In Response to How much do you hate Danny Ainge? : Yeah, and Rondo is a very mediocre player to start a team with...not good.
Posted by pumpsie-green
Why is it so hard for people to realize it is a cycle and that there is no sort of continuous excellence mentality that some would like to believe. There is no winning and rebuilding in the NBA.
Here it is people..... be really bad - draft really good players.... be really good - draft really bad players...... why is it a stunner that the Grizz got Gay, Mayo, Conley... why is it that OKC got Durant, Green, Westbrook, Harden..... why is it that Portland got Aldridge, Oden, Batum, Roy (granted Oden has not worked out)......
Look at the top teams and look at where their stars were drafted....... KG 5, Pierce 9, Ray 5, Shaq 1..... LeBron 1, Bosh 4, Wade 5..... Lakers Odom 7, Gasol 3, Kobe lottery, Bynum 10.... Dirk 10, Kidd 3, Terry 10, Butler 9, Chandler 2...... Rose 1, Noah 10, Deng 9...... 'melo 3, Amare 9, Chauncey 3..... When the Mavs played the Heat in the finals a few years ago it went something like this - Shaq, Wade, Walker, the glove, white chocolate vs. Dirk, Terry, Kidd, Dampier, Devin Harris, and so on......
let's look at what is left here..... Rondo 21, Davis 50, blah blah blah....
It is a cycle people and there is almost zero chance the Cs will be competitive going forward until they get extremely lucky and or they are really really really bad......
We are not allowed to use the word hate in my household.... and why on earth should we hate someone that is charged with dismantling the second version of the BIG 3......
Reading posters here one would come away thinking that the Cs have been in the finals for 20 of the last 25 years..... and that there is some sort of mystique about being a Celtic.... it is a job for a kid who cannot read or write and could not find Boston on a map.....
Reality really s ux but it is where most intelligent and objective people live.... you are welcome any time. -
Re: How much do you hate Danny Ainge?
posted at 4/21/2011 7:54 PM EDT
- aciemvp
- Posts: 3039
- First: 3/7/2008
- Last: 5/21/2013
duddler, i don't think anyone on here is here to play nostradamus and say we are NOT going to go through rebuilding process. we are talking about what's gone down in the past regarding talent judgement, management and personnel moves, as they all pertain to our team's chance NOW to WIN IT ALL.
in my screed, i did forget to mention ainge's HORRIBLE move at the end of rondo's rookie year to proclaim rajon "the starter of our future". and it has nothing to do with rondo per se. it only has everything to do with common sense. you NEVER announce to a 20 year old kid that he's good enough. horrible message to send.
and it's been followed up with 5 years of little to no discernible pressure in the form of playing time deprivation for rondo to improve his weaknesses in the game. to the contrary, the team has happily tolerated his incompetence at the free throw line and ongoing inability to master a simple mid range jumper, a tool every great point guard HAS to have in order to become great.
so it's those sorts of things that the dumb unwashed masses are talking about, not your condescending macro view of cyclical undulations of franchise performance. nobody was denying that. -
Re: How much do you hate Danny Ainge?
posted at 4/21/2011 8:15 PM EDT
- MinnesotaCelticsFan
- Posts: 459
- First: 3/2/2009
- Last: 5/29/2011
Most of the posts on this board go sky high when the Celtics play well, and are gloom and doom when they play poorly. The reality is that the Celtics are not as bad as they were in the last win, and they are not going to win by 30 points.
Before you hate, Danny, lets give the Celtics a little time in the play-offs to see how things develop. Does anyone remember the difficult time the Celtics had with the Hawks in 2008?
I hated the Perk trade, however, If JO can stay in the game, and Shaq returns, then things could improve dramatically. What ever happens there will be bumps and peaks. We still have the big four, and they are not hurt, and they have not aged substatially in 20 games. Earlier in the year this team dominated other dominant NBA teams.
Current difficuties have more to do with the minds than the bodies of our players, and those things can change as they win.
Has anyone ever seen anyone that wants to win more than KG, Paul and Ray? -
Re: How much do you hate Danny Ainge?
posted at 4/21/2011 8:26 PM EDT
- CelticFanLA
- Posts: 1381
- First: 8/15/2009
- Last: 4/6/2013
In Response to Re: How much do you hate Danny Ainge?:In Response to Re: How much do you hate Danny Ainge? : Why is it so hard for people to realize it is a cycle and that there is no sort of continuous excellence mentality that some would like to believe. There is no winning and rebuilding in the NBA. Here it is people..... be really bad - draft really good players.... be really good - draft really bad players...... why is it a stunner that the Grizz got Gay, Mayo, Conley... why is it that OKC got Durant, Green, Westbrook, Harden..... why is it that Portland got Aldridge, Oden, Batum, Roy (granted Oden has not worked out)...... Look at the top teams and look at where their stars were drafted....... KG 5, Pierce 9, Ray 5, Shaq 1..... LeBron 1, Bosh 4, Wade 5..... Lakers Odom 7, Gasol 3, Kobe lottery, Bynum 10.... Dirk 10, Kidd 3, Terry 10, Butler 9, Chandler 2...... Rose 1, Noah 10, Deng 9...... 'melo 3, Amare 9, Chauncey 3..... When the Mavs played the Heat in the finals a few years ago it went something like this - Shaq, Wade, Walker, the glove, white chocolate vs. Dirk, Terry, Kidd, Dampier, Devin Harris, and so on...... let's look at what is left here..... Rondo 21, Davis 50, blah blah blah.... It is a cycle people and there is almost zero chance the Cs will be competitive going forward until they get extremely lucky and or they are really really really bad...... We are not allowed to use the word hate in my household.... and why on earth should we hate someone that is charged with dismantling the second version of the BIG 3...... Reading posters here one would come away thinking that the Cs have been in the finals for 20 of the last 25 years..... and that there is some sort of mystique about being a Celtic.... it is a job for a kid who cannot read or write and could not find Boston on a map..... Reality really s ux but it is where most intelligent and objective people live.... you are welcome any time.
Posted by TheDUDDER
We do have the OKC pick next in 2012, and if the clippers can get out of the top ten, that should be a good pick with all the players choosing to hgo back to school this year. -
This post has been removed.
-
Re: How much do you hate Danny Ainge?
posted at 4/21/2011 9:32 PM EDT
- maryngary
- Posts: 4472
- First: 3/24/2005
- Last: 5/3/2013
In Response to How much do you hate Danny Ainge?:he lost TA who is the one guy who can defend Kobe and cause him problems. He lost our center Perkins who is an enforcer inside for a couple of softies in Green and Kristic, guys who look good on paper but can not contribute in playoffs when the intensity level rises. How much do you hate Danny Ainge for taking away the championship that was rightfully ours? Now our team will be dismantled. The Big three could only win one championship (2008) and now we start building with only Rondo a viable young player. brain dead
Posted by bramrok