Hunter's Laughable Comment

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Celtsfan4life. Show Celtsfan4life's posts

    Re: Hunter's Laughable Comment

    Please read this article. It's very interesting! http://m.espn.go.com/wireless/story?storyId=7149803 As for the racism comment, it's more bias than racism. It's not overt, but I absolutely believe it's a bias: the majority of NBA players are ignorant with low IQs; the majority of NBA players are Black; this comes from those who who won' say it out loud but in the back of their minds - the majority of Black athletes are ignorant with low IQ's. Sorry, but when you generalize, this is how it comes across even if you didn't mean for it to come out that way.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from CablesWyndBairn. Show CablesWyndBairn's posts

    Re: Hunter's Laughable Comment

    Karl, I agree with your union analogy, NBA players are perceived as entitled fat cats, and for the union chief to cry poor mouth when the NBA minimum salary is almost $800,000 is laughable.  I'm all for players getting a fair wage, they are the product that the NBA is selling, but when the current business climate allows for guaranteed contracts and then we see guys like Antoine Walker blowing $100,000,000 in a decade, why should we be sympathetic?  He's not the only example either.  

    The league has flatlined because there are too many marginal players stuck on rosters because their contracts preclude them from going anywhere.  I'm sorry, but the current system is producing a more inferior product than it used to.  Throw on top of that story after story about guys foolishly squandering their earnings and it's enough for the common fan to think that they're paying a lot of money for a watered down league whose players are becoming harder and harder to cheer for. 

    I have zero sympathy for the players.  Be happy with your pretty good living or work like 99.999% of society. 
     
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  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Gasthoerer. Show Gasthoerer's posts

    Re: Hunter's Laughable Comment

    I'm really surprised that most of the fans really blame the players (only).
    Aren't the owners stinking rich either? Actually most players are poor according to the owners standpoint. By the way: The owners claim they lose money but where is the proof? Open your books and let us see if and why there is more money spend than earned.

    The owners already have (soft) cap (and salary limits for the rookies) on their side and still "have" to pay to high salaries? A salary cap is totally against the US lifestyle in the "normal" business world and does not exist in most pro sport leagues in the world! And still they claim to lose money? Maybe they should't give bad contracts to the G. Arenas' and R. Lewis' of this league and let bad GMs, coaches and medical stuff run their teams. Maybe the owners would't lose money.

    Ok, the average salary is higher compared to other pro sports that is a small argument. But remember: They also have to pay MUCH less players compared to a football or soccer team.

    Edit:
    This is just wrong:
    In Response to Re: Hunter's Laughable Comment:
    [QUOTE] No one, no one! in the earned world of reality gets paid based on potential and is allowed to go on making a bloated salary when they don't produce.  Posted by passfirst[/QUOTE]

    A lot of people get paid for "potential". Members of the board of big companies, actors or politicians just to name a few. Some nice businessmen singlehandly put the world in a crisis and even became a bonus when the company went down.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Celtsfan4life. Show Celtsfan4life's posts

    Re: Hunter's Laughable Comment

    passfirst - haven't the players already agreed to a pay cut from 57.5% of the revenue down to 52.5%?  They seem to have already conceded that the league needs relief.  I now want to see the owners make some concessions.   They do have to realize that very few fans will come to watch some set of players they can get from Euro leagues and from the Developmental League.  The current players are the best and they are the product.  One may not like one, two, three, or 10 individual players, but if you took all 300 of them out and put in less talented players - i don't think you'll see much attendance at the stadium nor will you get much attention on TV.   The league's product is the players so its time for the owners to compromise.

    Another thing - its the owners who gave out those truly dumb contracts.  They were not forced to go over their cap by the players.  Danny AInge told Posey "NO" when he asked for more years.  he told BBD who I love "NO" when he wanted more years.   Its management who decides when to say "enough" and its management who went too far.  Indiana gave Posey too many years.  NY owners gave Eddie Curry and Alan Houston contracts too long.  Players will have to live with smaller contracts IN THE OLD SYSTEM if the owners had just shown some discipline.  

    A pay cut is warranted.   But, owners need to accept the responsibility for their own actions in this problem, including too much expansion of the league!
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from LakerFan67. Show LakerFan67's posts

    Re: Hunter's Laughable Comment

    This is a weird post. Most of the people show their true colors--they hate the fact that NBA players make a good salary. That's called the free market system.

    It's OK for owners to try and game the system but not OK for NBA players to unionize to fight back. What a laugh. This is a free country and workers have the right to collectively organize to defend their best interests.

    If Kobe Bryant, Lebron James, Paul Pierce can get someone to pay them millions of dollars, more power to them. And if NBA players want to counter what NBA owners are attempting to do, they have every right to do so.

    And it doesn't matter what Hunter or Stern say. We can cherry pick comments, attempt to distort the facts but it's clear what's going on. It's a majority of rich NBA owners crying about the few successful franchises. Since the failures outnumber the successful ones, lets just game the system further to help us out.

    No matter that teams with the worse records get top draft choices year in and year out, no matter that some rich owners have more dough than others but are too cheap to hire better talent, no matter that there already exists a luxury tax for those owners who want to bite the bullet and take a greater risk--no that still is not enough for the failed franchise owners.

    What these rich owners that fail miserably want to do--they want to take it out on the 5 or so successful franchises, and the players as well. What more can be done to placate these minsmanaged franchises?

    This thread must have been started by Donald Sterling, owner and cheap-skate of the Clippers.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Red-16Russ-11. Show Red-16Russ-11's posts

    Re: Hunter's Laughable Comment

    When have owners tried to "game the system?"  And what does that mean anyway.  The owners can't collude, the players shouldn't be allowed to, either!!
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from LakerFan67. Show LakerFan67's posts

    Re: Hunter's Laughable Comment

    The owners can't collude? What do you think the owners are doing right now? They are collectively trying to further marginalize the successful franchises & extract even more dough through "shared revenue" by locking up players & lowering their salaries. That's what the intent of the luxury tax was all about. "Lets penalize any owner who takes the greatest risk by spending the most dough to try & get the best talent.

    & players are supposed to sit by and accept what Stern & Co. dictate. That's what most of the posters on this tread are crying about. They want the players and the successful franchises to accept what failed owners demand.

    In the last lockout, the owners got everything they demanded and they may get most of everything they demand again. And guess what, we will still have only a few franchises that are successful with a few elite players and the rest of the teams struggling. I hope the players don't cave, I hope the players are able to maintain some level of independence.

    I'm glad Garnett finally left Minnesota, I'm glad Carmelo left Denver, and I'm glad Lebron left Cleveland. Why be forced to wallow in mediocrity? Isn't this a free country? Aren't NBA players entitled to have the opportunity to free themselves at a certain point in their careers? I'm with the players in this battle, not the failed owners. I want to seperate myself from those owners that can't cut even when the rules are stacked in their favor.

    Wouldn't any of you Boston fans want to see Dwight Howard in a Celtic uni? Or do you want him locked into a contract that nails him to Orlando?
     
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  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Karllost. Show Karllost's posts

    Re: Hunter's Laughable Comment

    It just strikes me funny to read how the players agreed to lower their take.

    I bet most people wish they had to be in agreement with the owner of the business on how much the owner could keep... and if they didnt, the entire company would come to a halt.

    Regarding racism again, I find that term ridiculous as it applies to NBA players and the comments made about IQ. First off, since its limited to just NBA players, its hard to call it racism. Im wasnt the one calling NBA players  the low IQ people... However, my personal impression agrees that a significant portion are not too bright. Most all have been through college yet have great difficulty speaking coherent sentences, attempt to use more advanced words but use them many times incorrectly.. Look, Im not telling you anything you probably havent experienced yourselves.

    If im sitting in a room of 10 people in the mountains of Arkansas and 9 have buck teeth and are holding a banjo and sign their name my making a large (X) and 4 of them are named Mongo.... well I might form an opinion these people (as a whole) seem uneducated or ignorant..  Does that mean Im lumping all people from the South...or all buck toothed people...or all banjo players....or all people named Mongo?   No, nobody would think that... However, if that same room had the same people but they were also black...well, watch the cries of racism come tumbling down.

    The PC atmosphere we live in sometimes makes us deny common sense, logic or the truth imo.  Like Howard Cossell used to "tell it like it is", whats wrong with speaking your mind and making legit observations without being over analyzed and categorized into the "label" of the day?


     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Gasthoerer. Show Gasthoerer's posts

    Re: Hunter's Laughable Comment

    In Response to Re: Hunter's Laughable Comment:
    [QUOTE]  @Gasthoerer - actors get paid per film and politicians get voted out of office when they under perform.  But if your equating the NBA players pay disfunction to the overblown salaries of movie celebrities and phony politicians and big bank cartels then...    
    Posted by passfirst[/QUOTE]
    I don't get your point. Actors (or musicians) sign a contract for a certain time/project and get paid for it. When the movie/album is a flop and/or the actor makes a poor job...then he is still paid but not hired again. Same for politicians besides the fact that he is voted for x-years and (hopefully) will lose the next election when he was bad.

    Let's have a look at NBA players: They get a contract for X-years and when they underperform, are injured or old...no new contract! That's the way it goes.
    Seems quite similiar to me!
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Celtsfan4life. Show Celtsfan4life's posts

    Re: Hunter's Laughable Comment

    I'm with LakerFan67 on his last post.  Passfirst - its not that you are wrong.....for me its a question of "how much"?   The players have ageed to a significant cut.  They can cut another 1%.  But when will the owners make ANY move toward a compromise on the BRI split?   If I'm the players, I draw the line and say "no basketball until the owners show SOME movement".   Just a 1.5% move from their position closes a deal.   At 51.5 for the players, they will have moved from 57% to 51.5%!!!   That's nearly $300M in cuts.  If the owners can't manage their clubs better to make money when they get almost $300M in expense cuts, then where, pay tell, do we hold them accountable for better management?

    When we "bail out" corporations, we expect them to do things to manage better.  We replace CEO's, we change the Board, we ask them to eliminate unprofitable lines of business.  When the owners are "bailed out" because they aren't making money, what actions will THEY take to fix the problem, other than cutting player salaries?

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Red-16Russ-11. Show Red-16Russ-11's posts

    Re: Hunter's Laughable Comment

    In Response to Re: Hunter's Laughable Comment:
    [QUOTE]The owners can't collude? What do you think the owners are doing right now? They are collectively trying to further marginalize the successful franchises & extract even more dough through "shared revenue" by locking up players & lowering their salaries. That's what the intent of the luxury tax was all about. "Lets penalize any owner who takes the greatest risk by spending the most dough to try & get the best talent. & players are supposed to sit by and accept what Stern & Co. dictate. That's what most of the posters on this tread are crying about. They want the players and the successful franchises to accept what failed owners demand. In the last lockout, the owners got everything they demanded and they may get most of everything they demand again. And guess what, we will still have only a few franchises that are successful with a few elite players and the rest of the teams struggling. I hope the players don't cave, I hope the players are able to maintain some level of independence. I'm glad Garnett finally left Minnesota, I'm glad Carmelo left Denver, and I'm glad Lebron left Cleveland. Why be forced to wallow in mediocrity? Isn't this a free country? Aren't NBA players entitled to have the opportunity to free themselves at a certain point in their careers? I'm with the players in this battle, not the failed owners. I want to seperate myself from those owners that can't cut even when the rules are stacked in their favor. Wouldn't any of you Boston fans want to see Dwight Howard in a Celtic uni? Or do you want him locked into a contract that nails him to Orlando?
    Posted by LakerFan67[/QUOTE]


    Absolutley, but in every other sport, there is some form of compensation to the team that lost the player.  But the odds are not stacked in favor of the small market owners, you are wrong about that.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from walk2run. Show walk2run's posts

    Re: Hunter's Laughable Comment

    In Response to Re: Hunter's Laughable Comment:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Hunter's Laughable Comment : Interesting point..  Let's pepper it with some facts.  take the Charlotte Bobcats as an example.  6 of their 10 players under contract don't make $5M per year.  In fact, these 6 make from $780k per year to $3.9M per year. These same players will often only play 3 to 5 years and be out of the league.  So, they'll make between $2.4M to $20M and according to you - they have a low IQ so they won't get good jobs after that.  So, that's what they will have for life.   Hmmmm, sounds like its worth fighting for. Now, KG and Paul Pierce and Kobe and Kevin Durant have nothing to worry about.  you're right about them.  But remember that Avery Bradley and Gerald Henderson and DJ Augustine and Luke Harongody (Sp?) will NOT be around long and they are fighting for money that will really matter in their lives. Try not to generalize.   moreover, I fight it offensive that you keep talking about their IQ's.  I suspect you think because they are all black americans, they are stupid with low IQ's.  Luke Harongody graduated brom Notre Dame university.  I bet his IQ is above yours (and probably mine) as is Tim Duncan or Kevin Garnett or Jameer Nelson or Derek Fisher.   Stop hatin', man.   If you could make money with your athletic talents, you'd do it just like them!
    Posted by Celtsfan4life[/QUOTE]
    Great post....I think those of us in the know truly understand what these closets bigots (disguising their racism) are really saying and why they are saying it. When the Screen Actor Guild or hockey goes on strike these closet a-holes don't say a word, but let a man of color make more money then these un-athletic couch bigots then we get their pathetic blogs. Keep hatin....all it does is make you bigots look even more patheic than what you normally are.
     
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    Re: Hunter's Laughable Comment

    Passfirst.....very intelligent and articulate post 2 posts above.  I don't know the answer to the questions in your 3rd paragraph.  I don't think they've released those details 9on how the pay cut is spread across teams).

    As for guaranteed contracts, we are aligned.  I don't think long term expensive contracts should be granted except when its really warranted.   They are killers for the league and teams.  But, maybe we difffer on how to prevent that.  I say it should be allowed in the rules and the owners should use it only when they come across the Garnetts, Duncans, Bryant's, Pierce's, Durants, Wades, etc.  The rules should limite the number of these, but not rule it out.....as there are definitely players who are worth it.....and the owners need to show discipline on when they grant these kind of deals.   I think I hear you saying the rules should not allow it at all?  Is that where we differ?

    PS.  The reason Walk2Run is saying what he said is that some folks on this board (not you) are so adamant and ugly in their statements that all NBA players are ignorant and low IQ and undeserving of any credit for what they do - that they are ALL just dumb lucky millionaires who should shut up and do what they are told and that they all just waste money on drugs and Bentley's.   That's clearly a set of people who are racist and say those things because the majority of the players are black and that they press has highlighted those who lose theirm money on cars and houses.   "They're mostly dumb and with all low IQ's, they are mostly black, ergo....black athletes are dumb with low IQ's and no education".   That's the implication even if its not said outloud.   I understand why Walk2Run is reacting - some folks on this Board are generalizing and putting all the athletes in one category.  One of them said that the ones who are great representatives (David Robinson, Sean Elliott, Bill Russell, Jo Jo White, etc, etc, etc.....are all exceptions and the majority are dumb with low IQ's and no education and would fail at anything else).   How offensive!!!

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from jeezem. Show jeezem's posts

    Re: Hunter's Laughable Comment

    I sort of think they should just put whoever than can in uniforms and play the games.  Let anyone who thinks 2 or 6 or 10 mil a year, is not enough to be an employee, take a walk and see if they can make that doing anything else.  A lot of people would give an arm or a leg just to put on a uniform for their favorite team and play one game, or one minute of one game.  I make s#%^ and work my #%3 off and am pulling my teeth out trying to get a masters degree.  And I have to figure out how to pay for it.  I just can't stand watching people fail to realize how spoiled they are demanding to be more spoiled.  Just get new players.  I'm good. 
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Celtsfan4life. Show Celtsfan4life's posts

    Re: Hunter's Laughable Comment

    In Response to Re: Hunter's Laughable Comment:
    [QUOTE]I sort of think they should just put whoever than can in uniforms and play the games.  Let anyone who thinks 2 or 6 or 10 mil a year, is not enough to be an employee, take a walk and see if they can make that doing anything else.  A lot of people would give an arm or a leg just to put on a uniform for their favorite team and play one game, or one minute of one game.  I make s#%^ and work my #%3 off and am pulling my teeth out trying to get a masters degree.  And I have to figure out how to pay for it.  I just can't stand watching people fail to realize how spoiled they are demanding to be more spoiled.  Just get new players.  I'm good. 
    Posted by jeezem[/QUOTE]


    Laughed out loud.  Fortunately for us fans, they won't do that.   Has something to do with the fact that "putting whoever they can in a uniform" won't get anyone to come and watch a game.   You don't have the skill, my friend, to play the game well enough for any of us to want to watch you.  We can go to the local Y and see players like you and me for free.  To see the top 200 players on the planet Earth, we have to see NBA games.  "Just anybody" can't hit a baseball, tackle a player, catch a football, return a Roger Federer Serve, etc.   So, we need professional players to see the highest calibre games, not players like you and me or college guys or even Euro players.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Karllost. Show Karllost's posts

    Re: Hunter's Laughable Comment

    In Response to Re: Hunter's Laughable Comment:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Hunter's Laughable Comment : Great post....I think those of us in the know truly understand what these closets bigots (disguising their racism) are really saying and why they are saying it. When the Screen Actor Guild or hockey goes on strike these closet a-holes don't say a word, but let a man of color make more money then these un-athletic couch bigots then we get their pathetic blogs. Keep hatin....all it does is make you bigots look even more patheic than what you normally are.
    Posted by walk2run[/QUOTE]y

    I dont want to call yur post ignorant or stupid, so I'll just disagree with it.

    So you are one of the few that truly  understand what these posters are saying. You've seen through all the attempted hidden racism and crystalized it for everyone and lumped them all as bigots. Gee, youre not to quick to label a group, huh? You're a very special person.

    You've been able to ascertain that nobody posting here has ever said a word about SAG or hockey players on strike, you have some great resources. That they are only angry because, how did you say it... "a man of color makes more money then these un-athletic couch bigots then we get their pathetic blogs"

    Would these bigots really need  a lockout to speak up about the man of color making more money?   Nah, the sad fact is this.... the point and focus of the most recent discussion (where the race card was introduced) is the alleged IQ of NBA players, not the fact they make alot of money.... but  you just couldnt wait to cry racism  because you saw an opening

    just next time, understand what the discussion is about before you scream racism...  although I bet once you picked up on one of your favorite keywords, you fingers trembled at your keyboard to get up a post and turn the tables!!

     
     
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    Re: Hunter's Laughable Comment

    In Response to Re: Hunter's Laughable Comment:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Hunter's Laughable Comment :   Not true.  Avery Bradley made more money in his rookie year alone than most teachers will make in 20 years of work.  With the over 1 million dollars he made last season he could finance 3 pizza houses, have someone else run them and collect 50% profit off of the 70 to 120 g's from each per year easy.  And still have a good 700 grand he never had to touch out of the 1.2 million left over(i think, maybe it's 1.5). These guys all walked into a winning lottery ticket.  Nobody owes them anything!! And generally speaking, they are all extremely uneducated, let alone jerk off personalities.  Those that aren't are the anomaly.  You really think the guys on the Harvard Hockey team that won the national title 20 years ago didn't major in finger painting?        
    Posted by passfirst[/QUOTE]

    We're not talking about teachers, man!  We're talking about whether a player who has a talent the rest of us don't have (you and I can teach, but we cannot dribble and move our feet nor dunk like an NBA player  - and TV won't pay for a teacher to teach but they'll pay for a football player or a basketball player or a baseball player to play).  

    What's more - in one year, a player who makes $1.5M in salary has $750k after taxes.  That's likely $700k after various expenses.   That's then maybe $400k or $300k after the down payment on a house.  Then, if he ever gets married or has kids, he has less.  If he lasts only 3 years (ask Giddens or others like him), then he's not a millionaire as you suggest.  Yes, he's much better off than a teacher to start, but the rest of the money still matters.  We're not going to shed tears for Ray Allen, Paul Pierce, or other big money makers.  But, when you work and paractice and sacrifice for a special talent, you deserve pay for it.  

    So, my point is not that they don't make more money than teachers.  Its that the money the players who are not big stars is money worth them fighting for.  After they've already taken a 57.5% to 52% hair cut in pay, they have the right to fight for keeping the rest and its time for the owners to meet them halfway between 52 and 50.   They are at least workers who deserve pay for the product that THEY, the players, make (owners don't play basketball and can't attrack fans).   The owners are billionaires and with the cut the players have given up - the owners can make even more millions on their franchises!
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Celtsfan4life. Show Celtsfan4life's posts

    Re: Hunter's Laughable Comment

    Wow - I can end the debate on the contracts.  We are not far apart....just see different responsibility for the problem.  You see the players and the CBA as responsible.  I see the owners lack of management discipline as responsible.  In the end, we see the same problem, just different fixes.   So I won't argue the point with you....I just see your point and I hope you see mine.

    Now, as for the description of the players......you and I couldn't see it more opposite.  I don't agree with the characterizations of for every one "good" player (one who meets your definition of good), there are 3 bad ones.  I certainly don't accept your characterizations of so many players in the same category as Ron Artest and Stephon Marbury.   You simply, admittedly in my opinion, are hearing part of the story the negative press feeds you and then generalizing about all of the player's character.   You are offended by the race card being used by whoever did it.  But, my friend, I really have to tell you - your words are truly offensive and they sound like bias and bigotry. Its offensive not because of comments about Carmelo or Artest or any other single individual.....but because you claim that 3 out of ever 4 player are of a certain character.   That, my man, is bigortry and bias.  I don't judge all hispanics one way or another.  I just them specific to their own character.  I don't just all white people to be one way or another - I just them by their individual actions.  I don't judge all black people to be one way or another - I just them as individuals.  I don't judget all factory workers or IT professionals or wall street analysts or swimming pool workers or restaurant owners to be all one way or another.  Many people in the heart of the south are hard working, wonderful individuals.  My mother, father, and whole family was born in the south.   But.....Do you call them all dumb rednecks because some individuals in the South are rednecks??? When you generalize, you show bigotry and bias towards one group of people whether its race, background, education, religion, education level, etc.   

    its hard to even discuss it with you rationally when you try to say for ever Ray allen there are 3 Ron Artests.   So, for every Derek Jeeter there are 3 Roger Clements?   For every Tim Tebow there are 3 Tod Marinovich or Ryan Leaf's ?  There are just too many generalizations where you lump people into categories and its offensive.  Talk about Melo all you want.  Talk about Artest all you want.  talk about any player and the good or bad they've done.  But, please don't lump them all into a category just because they are black basketball players and say for every one of them good character guys there are 3 bad character guys.   

    Heck, just go down the Celtics roster and tell me there are 3 Ron Artests for every Ray Allen.  

    as they say on ESPN....COME ON, MAN!

     
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Celtsfan4life. Show Celtsfan4life's posts

    Re: Hunter's Laughable Comment

    Before you argue your point again, do a little test for yourself:

    1. Go to the Internet
    2. Pull up the Roster of an NBA team
    3. Categorize the players into those with good character and those with bad character.

    Tell me what percentage you come up with using YOUR OWN JUDGEMENT, not mine.   I'd like to hear your evaluation of each roster (and please include the white and Euro and hispanic players in your evaluation).
     
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  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Celtsfan4life. Show Celtsfan4life's posts

    Re: Hunter's Laughable Comment

    In Response to Re: Hunter's Laughable Comment:
    [QUOTE]  Yes, I see your point on the contracts and I see the cause of dysfunction as stemming from both sides, not just the players. There has never been any doubt about that.  But i think the players are the ones who need to "see the light" over contract issues.  The other issues really don't effect me as much as a fan.       I couldn't have made it more clear that I wasn't equating character and intelligence with race.  I was referring to the characteristics of NBA players.   They are responsible for themselves, and for the characteristics they portray as members of the NBA.  We can talk about these characteristics.  "What do you think about this guy?"  "how about that guy?"  Please stop turning a commentary about NBA players into a negative commentary that says one can't say something bad about the stunted growth and uneducated nature portrayed by many players throughout the NBA without it being racist.  Widen your frame of reference regarding African Americans.      This is silly.  I'm happy to talk about the positive examples and give respect for it as well.  I did this when I gave positive examples in my last post.  You are looking at NBA players through the lens of race and I'm looking at them as individuals.  Part of my point was that if you think the NBA players that are black can't be criticized in certain ways without it being a commentary upon the entire scope of black America, than you need to look around and see the very large number of African Americans who portray exceptional characteristics across many other industries as well.  Some of them are in the NBA, as I exampled a few.  And if you're trying to say that the NBA is full of articulate, educated, mature adults, then I just flat out disagree.  And guess what, it has nothing to do with their skin color.  And a lot to do with the fact that they never had to earn acceptance by way of study into the Universities they attended (for those of the players who attended university for a year or two. Grant Hill is another exception who went for four years)     Again, you are trying to tell me that disagreement on this subject is a no-fly zone.  Either I agree with you that from a character stand point, the Stephon Jackson's and the Ron artest's with their character issues and the Shaq's with children by different mothers doesn't oversaturate the league or i'm a bigot.  Or if I am against the thought that the questionable levels of wit and learned knowledge that the Tony Allen's and the Delonte West's portray doesn't typify the NBA beyond a few players, then I must be a bigot.  This is silly.             
    Posted by passfirst[/QUOTE]

    You missed my point.  Let me try again.  The issue is NOT that you can't talk about any player you want.  We are fans and they are public figures so they are all fair game.  My point is that you should make your comments relative to EACH of them as individuals and not generalize the point.  I FULLY disagree that the guyyou consider "good character" are the exception and that 3 out of 4 (your words were fore every 1 good character player there are 3 bad character guys) are the norm.   That is the issue we are disagreeing about.   Talk about whoever you want, but don't lump them all together because every individual is different - and that's true for every walk of life.  My point is that when people (like you in this thread) generalize about 75% of all players and it also happens to be that 75% of all players are black, by association, you are saying that black NBA players are low character, low educated, low IQ people.   That is the generalization you just will NEVER get me to agree to.   

    And you should stop doing it because you are NOT being reasonable to the many players in the league.  

    Did you do the evaluation of a team's roster that i mentioned?   Did you do an honest assessment of, for example, the C's roster to tell me that 75% of all C's players are low character guys?   Go ahead, please do the evaluation so that you see that lumping most players into one category is massively biased.   

    If you wonder why race is such a sensitive topic, its because people make these kinds of generalizations.  You, me, and every other person in the world wants to be evaluated on our own merit, not made to be categorized as "most people like you do xyz".   That's what you are doing to NBA players.  Some are role models.  Some are bad citizens.  That's the way it is in EVERY walk of life.  Stop generalizing and talk about the bad apples SPECIFICALLY and not categorize everyone into a broad negative characterization.   

    Its comments like that which cause my black friends to believe that we whites are always going to be biased against them.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Celtsfan4life. Show Celtsfan4life's posts

    Re: Hunter's Laughable Comment

    Well, at least u finally did the evaluation for yourself. For that, I thank you. I'll give my comments on the actual eval in a minute. If you lived in a town where there are a lot of good, hard working factory workers or service industry personnel, you might be stoned (smile). You link lack of college education to lack of good character and good judgement. Wow! You keep offending major groups of people. Do you really think we have to be college educated to be good intelligent people? As for the evaluation you did, I'm surprised at your views but I'm proud of you for making each one personal to that individual. Garnett: devout family man who' been loyal to 2 teams through thick and thin. He stood up for what he believed in and his lack of college have nothing to do with it. I agreed with his position and I ha a masters in computer science from UPenn, an MBA from Harvard, an Engineering degree undergrad, and a CPA. I'm "educated" by your definition and I have the same reaction to the owners that KG did. Having college degree does not determine one's position on these issues! It's also clear by now that the agreement was not close as it's broken down two times since that quote after players and owners said they were close. So, let's not believe all we read in the press since they weren't in the room. I see nothing wrong with JON's character nor Bradley nor BBD nor Wafer nor Arroyo nor Pierce. I'm going to stop discussing this with you. Please don't take offense when I don't respond to the next post in this thread. It's just that both you and I have now expressed our views and it's time to move on. I respect your opinion and your right to express it. I just disagree very strongly and hope that you take time in the future to not lump so many people into one category so as to offend less people and have more credibility when talking about each individual. I hope we get an NBA season soon and Many fans can enjoy the tremendous talent of the NBA?
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Celtsfan4life. Show Celtsfan4life's posts

    Re: Hunter's Laughable Comment

    You know, I wasn't going to answer and tried to end ithis discussion on a positive note. I respected both your opinion and the right to express it.. But then you tried to end it very negative by stupid comments like " have u spent a day outside the classroom" and the China/India generalization. Another example of your stupid and ignorant assumptions about people. For you information, foolish person, I graduated from Engineering school 30 years ago. I no longer compete with India and Chinese or other Engineers. I actually hire some of them if they are good because I started my own IT engineering business serving our government. I got my degree after being in the US Army and using the GI Bill to help me pay for the initial degree. My father was also in the us army (master Seargant in our country's infantry and served in Korea) so I cut grass, painted, moved furniture, and any other job I could find before joining the Army and serving in Vietnam. Once again, you generalize about people and made incorrect assumptions. I tried to respect you and your opinions but in the end you proved you are an ignorant biased little man who is full of hatred for others who achieved in other ways besides YOUR way. I pity you for your small minded ways.
     
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