I really,really,really,really,really hope Smart & Young are better than the guys we oassed on.

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from DaCeltics. Show DaCeltics's posts

    I really,really,really,really,really hope Smart & Young are better than the guys we passed on.

    Namely taking Vonleh or McDermott at #6 and taking Cleanthony Early or Russ Smith at 17.


     


    Shooting translates more than any other skill at all levels of bball. Wether or not you can get shots off or are willing to shoot them is the only thing to question about rookie shooters.


     


    We could really use Seth Curry and Patric Young. Lets not be Johnny come-latelies!

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from CelticGreenLP. Show CelticGreenLP's posts

    Re: I really,really,really,really,really hope Smart & Young are better than the guys we oassed on.

    In response to DaCeltics' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Namely taking Vonleh or McDermott at #6 and taking Cleanthony Early or Russ Smith at 17.

     

     

     

    Shooting translates more than any other skill at all levels of bball. Wether or not you can get shots off or are willing to shoot them is the only thing to question about rookie shooters.

     

     

     

    We could really use Seth Curry and Patric Young. Lets not be Johnny come-latelies!

    [/QUOTE]

    No, Rebounding and steal rates translate from college to pro better than any other stat. Shooting doesn't always. Adam Morrison anyone?  Luke Harrangody? Austin Rivers, Pitsnoggle, The O'Bannons, Jimmer Fredette...The list of very confident scorers/shooters in college that didnt translate to the pros goes on and on. (McDermott will probably be the next name on this list.)

    Shooting is actually probably the #1 skill that can be improved by practice and confidence.  The things you can't teach are: Motor, Competitive Drive, BBall IQ, Court Awareness, God Given Elite Athleticism, and Size/Length.  Marcus Smart actually ranks high in all of these attributes for the PG position.

     

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from guyfromtex. Show guyfromtex's posts

    Re: I really,really,really,really,really hope Smart & Young are better than the guys we oassed on.

    I worry about this too. Vonleh and Early would have been better for Boston' s needs.  

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from DaCeltics. Show DaCeltics's posts

    Re: I really,really,really,really,really hope Smart & Young are better than the guys we oassed on.

    In response to guyfromtex's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I worry about this too. Vonleh and Early would have been better for Boston' s needs.  

    [/QUOTE]

    Early is looking REALLY NICE! I just hope Young is better or I will be PSST! I talked till I was blue in the face about Vonleh, Early, Gordon and Napier.

    I thought Smart would be better than Exum and Wiggins but I didn't see OUR need for him. I guess Rondo is out of here. That is the most likely reason. Then I understand.

    We had no choice on Gordon. Early and Napier were still on the table at #17. Can't take Napier after taking Smart. That leaves Early and Young. VERY tough decision, I admit. Early looked like he played with more energy than Young and had a better iso game. Time will tell.

    I will be nervous the whole time.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from guyfromtex. Show guyfromtex's posts

    Re: I really,really,really,really,really hope Smart & Young are better than the guys we oassed on.

    Just saw that Vonleh had 18 rebounds. I think that we could use a guy like that to man the middle!

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from DaCeltics. Show DaCeltics's posts

    Re: I really,really,really,really,really hope Smart & Young are better than the guys we oassed on.

    In response to CelticGreenLP's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to DaCeltics' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Namely taking Vonleh or McDermott at #6 and taking Cleanthony Early or Russ Smith at 17.

     

     

     

    Shooting translates more than any other skill at all levels of bball. Wether or not you can get shots off or are willing to shoot them is the only thing to question about rookie shooters.

     

     

     

    We could really use Seth Curry and Patric Young. Lets not be Johnny come-latelies!

    [/QUOTE]

    No, Rebounding and steal rates translate from college to pro better than any other stat. Shooting doesn't always. Adam Morrison anyone?  Luke Harrangody? Austin Rivers, Pitsnoggle, The O'Bannons, Jimmer Fredette...The list of very confident scorers/shooters in college that didnt translate to the pros goes on and on. (McDermott will probably be the next name on this list.)

    Shooting is actually probably the #1 skill that can be improved by practice and confidence.  The things you can't teach are: Motor, Competitive Drive, BBall IQ, Court Awareness, God Given Elite Athleticism, and Size/Length.  Marcus Smart actually ranks high in all of these attributes for the PG position.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    I disagree. The only thing that changes about shooting is who is guarding you. So, like I said, if you can't get open...

    Rebounding doesn't always. A 6-2 guy can be a double double machine with rebounds and points in high school it AINT GOING TO HAPPEN IN THE NBA!

    But a 6-2 sharpshooter that can get himself open has the chance to do it as a pro.

    I think steal rates are lower against more talented players. I don't have statistics to back it up. Just logical. Getting open shots is also more difficult against better players but the SHOOTING SKILL itself is not diminished.

    Rebounding and steals is dependent on superior quickness, strength and motor. Having great anticipation only goes so far without superior physical ability. (Shooting is not so dependent on this delicate mixture imo)

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from DaCeltics. Show DaCeltics's posts

    Re: I really,really,really,really,really hope Smart & Young are better than the guys we oassed on.

    In response to guyfromtex's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Just saw that Vonleh had 18 rebounds. I think that we could use a guy like that to man the middle!

    [/QUOTE]

    I know! Ay yi yi!

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from painter. Show painter's posts

    Re: I really,really,really,really,really hope Smart & Young are better than the guys we oassed on.

    In response to guyfromtex's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Just saw that Vonleh had 18 rebounds. I think that we could use a guy like that to man the middle!

    [/QUOTE]

    Before the draft, the need was clearly, to me, a big time rebounder. Lots of talk about who can run with Rondo, but first ,a team needs the ball to run, and their inability to board (beyond Sully) has been decidedly missing. Vonleh was the best bet available.  

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from fishers5. Show fishers5's posts

    Re: I really,really,really,really,really hope Smart & Young are better than the guys we oassed on.

    Can we at least wait until real games are played before posting all our opinions about how much better  other teams picks are?? 



    Always Right.....at least in my mind

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from cole-ely. Show cole-ely's posts

    Re: I really,really,really,really,really hope Smart & Young are better than the guys we oassed on.

    There was a "steal of the draft" or sleeper type thread a few months ago and I said Cleanthony Early.  He's lighting it up for NY in the summer league.  I really wanted him to go to Boston or OKC. 


    There will be someone below Smart in the draft who does better, and there will be someone taken above him who does worse.  Hindsight is 2020.  Vonleh looks good to me.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from BiggerThanMyBrady. Show BiggerThanMyBrady's posts

    Re: I really,really,really,really,really hope Smart & Young are better than the guys we oassed on.

    Well this didn't take long.....

    I liked Vonleh coming out, but Smart is clearly more developed right now. Danny is planning ahead. Might lose Rondo at some point this season or next, so you draft his potential replacement. He also happened to represent the top guy on the Celtics board at that point. They've like Smart for some time now. They love his athletic ability, his ceiling, his toughness, leadership, defense, etc. I think Smart is going to be one heck of a player. Potentially better than some guys that went before him and definitely a lot of guys that went after him. 

    In that 18 rebound, 10 point game against Sacramento Vonleh also had 8 fouls in 32 minutes. The game prior Vonleh was awful: 0 points on 0-13 shooting, 0-4 from 3, 0-2 from the line and 6 boards. Let's not overreact here. 

    People are forgetting that Young is only 18 years old. Right now he's a spot-up shooter and THAT"S OKAY. It's called development. We haven't even seen him play a game yet. Early is a nice player - OKC screwed up by missing on him twice - but I'm still taking the player with WAY more upside than the guy that's already 23 years old. 

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from guyfromtex. Show guyfromtex's posts

    Re: I really,really,really,really,really hope Smart & Young are better than the guys we oassed on.

    I think that Ainge may have out thought himself.  There were a bunch of experts and many on this board that wanted Vonleh, including myself.  Smart is a heckuva player but we already have a point guard.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Eldunker. Show Eldunker's posts

    Re: I really,really,really,really,really hope Smart & Young are better than the guys we oassed on.

    Vonlegh looks raw in every aspect of his game and will likely need a couple years of development before he is even NBA ready.  

    You guys seem to forget how meaningless Summer League competition compared to actual required NBA skills.  Early smearly.  Speaking of mirages, Morrison, averaged 20+ in 2012 SL play before getting bounced from the NBA for good.  Noel's stats are also a mirage.  He'll get his lunch handed to him and isn't close to NBA ready.

    I like our picks of Smart and Young.  Wouldn't change a thing if we had a do-ever.  Vonleh would have been redundant at PF. We needed a SG/SF and Young has all the attributes to be an impact player.  Smart will be at solid foundation player of the future Celtics.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from romneywins. Show romneywins's posts

    Re: I really,really,really,really,really hope Smart & Young are better than the guys we oassed on.

    McDermott has a good fit at Chicago.  He should do very well if they play him and let him learn the game.  But they might bench him if he misses a shot or two.  That is the way it is, players like him will almost need to play perfect or some coach or gm will look to play a player with less skills at the position because of presset mindsets that the nba has.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from romneywins. Show romneywins's posts

    Re: I really,really,really,really,really hope Smart & Young are better than the guys we oassed on.

    In response to DaCeltics' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Namely taking Vonleh or McDermott at #6 and taking Cleanthony Early or Russ Smith at 17.

     

     Yes we took two players, a poor shooter and a injured duck.  McDermott if played will be the steal of the draft.

     

    Shooting translates more than any other skill at all levels of bball. Wether or not you can get shots off or are willing to shoot them is the only thing to question about rookie shooters.

     

     

     

    We could really use Seth Curry and Patric Young. Lets not be Johnny come-latelies!

    [/QUOTE]


     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Eldunker. Show Eldunker's posts

    Re: I really,really,really,really,really hope Smart & Young are better than the guys we oassed on.

    Two words:

    Athleticism and Defense.

    Without either or both, BUST is a real possibility for any NBA wannabe. Mcdermott is high risk.  

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from SFBostonFan. Show SFBostonFan's posts

    Re: I really,really,really,really,really hope Smart & Young are better than the guys we oassed on.

    It is unfortunate we didn't get Embiid...had no chance really !  Our biggest need and it has been for a few years has been being near the bottom of the league in rebounding. When you shoot 50%, no problem but if you shoot only 35-45% but get 10 more rebounds, those 2nd chances makes you competitive with better shooting teams. Old wound...sorry...game 7 Lakers Kobe shot 25%, 6 for 24, and team only 39% I think but it was Gasol & Bynum who killed us on the boards. Yup, I know, had we not lost Perk in Game 6 and egregious foul shot difference of 41 to 18 and 21 just in 4th qtr, we'd won.  Our old friend Ray Allen couldn't buy a basket and all we needed was one or 2 when we had a 3-4 pt lead.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from CubanPete. Show CubanPete's posts

    Re: I really,really,really,really,really hope Smart & Young are better than the guys we oassed on.

    Smart will be fine.

    Young will be a bust.

     

    ...the King of the Rumba Beat...

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from hedleylamarr. Show hedleylamarr's posts

    Re: I really,really,really,really,really hope Smart & Young are better than the guys we oassed on.

    I'm a little confused here.  I would first like to say, though, that I, too wanted Vonleh for many of the reasons stated above.

    Smart had a bad game in summer league, and he is a bust?

    Vonleh had 18 rebounds (although zero points, I understand, didn't watch it), and he's the guy we should have taken?

    There's summer league, then pre-season, then regular season.

    Early will be better than advertised because he was a senior.  With 4 years of college under his belt, he is ready to play now.

    Vonleh is a project who had "character issues".  While we may never know what that means, suppose we find out he's a complete knucklehead in the NBA?

    And, where is Early going to play?  They just signed some guy named Melo for 5 years.  Early is a SF?  Who went in the second round?

    Are you trying to tell me that this kid should have been drafted at 17?  Because that means Phil is smarter than not just Danny, but everyone else, too.

    Adams, Capela, Hood...........those are the guys Young should be compared to........not a second round pick.

    If Early becomes an All-Star, every GM will have egg on their face.

     

    We should all probably chill (yes, I've lived in CA too long) and watch Young play, watch a few games from Vonleh, and see if Early comes back to earth...................WAAAAYYY too early for this hyperbole guys!!

    "Climb on my back, boys, and I'll take you home." - Cedric Maxwell

    "You show me a good loser, and I'll show you a loser." - Red Auerbach

    "My mind is a raging torrent, flooded with rivulets of thought, cascading into a waterfall of creative alternatives." - Hedley Lamarr

    If no Bynum injury, no Gasol trade - last word!!

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from CubanPete. Show CubanPete's posts

    Re: I really,really,really,really,really hope Smart & Young are better than the guys we oassed on.

    In response to hedleylamarr's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I'm a little confused here.  I would first like to say, though, that I, too wanted Vonleh for many of the reasons stated above.

    Smart had a bad game in summer league, and he is a bust?

    Vonleh had 18 rebounds (although zero points, I understand, didn't watch it), and he's the guy we should have taken?

    There's summer league, then pre-season, then regular season.

    Early will be better than advertised because he was a senior.  With 4 years of college under his belt, he is ready to play now.

    Vonleh is a project who had "character issues".  While we may never know what that means, suppose we find out he's a complete knucklehead in the NBA?

    And, where is Early going to play?  They just signed some guy named Melo for 5 years.  Early is a SF?  Who went in the second round?

    Are you trying to tell me that this kid should have been drafted at 17?  Because that means Phil is smarter than not just Danny, but everyone else, too.

    Adams, Capela, Hood...........those are the guys Young should be compared to........not a second round pick.

    If Early becomes an All-Star, every GM will have egg on their face.

     

    We should all probably chill (yes, I've lived in CA too long) and watch Young play, watch a few games from Vonleh, and see if Early comes back to earth...................WAAAAYYY too early for this hyperbole guys!!

    "Climb on my back, boys, and I'll take you home." - Cedric Maxwell

    "You show me a good loser, and I'll show you a loser." - Red Auerbach

    "My mind is a raging torrent, flooded with rivulets of thought, cascading into a waterfall of creative alternatives." - Hedley Lamarr

    If no Bynum injury, no Gasol trade - last word!!

    [/QUOTE]

    In 2 years at OK St, plus summer league, Smart has come as advertised: great on D, active on the boards, good handle, gets to the FT line frequently, and struggles with shooting. All in all, even with the weak shooting numbers, Smart will be a good NBA player. In two year in college, Smart has posted elite steal and rebound rates, was elite at getting to the FT line, had an excellent assist rate, and significantly reduced his turnover rate in his sophomore season.

    Young, in his one season at Kentucky was a mediocre shooter (34.9% on 3s) and had terrible block and steal rates. There is nothing there that indicates that he'll be more than replacement level. Ainge fell for the hype: big HS recruit, big school, got hot in the NCAAs. None of which justifies taking him at 17. Clint Capela, Jordan Adams, Mitch McGarry, Kyle Anderson, or Gary Harris would have been better at that spot.

    ...the King of the Rumba Beat...

     

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from cabutan. Show cabutan's posts

    Re: I really,really,really,really,really hope Smart & Young are better than the guys we oassed on.

    No kidding!! I really like Smart but oh boy Mcdermott just torched Den.. However, the highlights show that mcdermott is a bad defender..and only 1 rebound? really?  

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from CubanPete. Show CubanPete's posts

    Re: I really,really,really,really,really hope Smart & Young are better than the guys we oassed on.

    In response to cabutan's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    No kidding!! I really like Smart but oh boy Mcdermott just torched Den.. However, the highlights show that mcdermott is a bad defender..and only 1 rebound? really?  

    [/QUOTE]


    Not just the highlights, the numbers show it too.

    According to Kevin Pelton, DMD's career steals and blocks in his 4 years at Creighton are less than 155 NCAA players in their 2013-14 seasons.

    Thibs will have to hide this guy on D.

     

    ...the King of the Rumba Beat...

     

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from hedleylamarr. Show hedleylamarr's posts

    Re: I really,really,really,really,really hope Smart & Young are better than the guys we oassed on.

    In response to CubanPete's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to hedleylamarr's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I'm a little confused here.  I would first like to say, though, that I, too wanted Vonleh for many of the reasons stated above.

    Smart had a bad game in summer league, and he is a bust?

    Vonleh had 18 rebounds (although zero points, I understand, didn't watch it), and he's the guy we should have taken?

    There's summer league, then pre-season, then regular season.

    Early will be better than advertised because he was a senior.  With 4 years of college under his belt, he is ready to play now.

    Vonleh is a project who had "character issues".  While we may never know what that means, suppose we find out he's a complete knucklehead in the NBA?

    And, where is Early going to play?  They just signed some guy named Melo for 5 years.  Early is a SF?  Who went in the second round?

    Are you trying to tell me that this kid should have been drafted at 17?  Because that means Phil is smarter than not just Danny, but everyone else, too.

    Adams, Capela, Hood...........those are the guys Young should be compared to........not a second round pick.

    If Early becomes an All-Star, every GM will have egg on their face.

     

    We should all probably chill (yes, I've lived in CA too long) and watch Young play, watch a few games from Vonleh, and see if Early comes back to earth...................WAAAAYYY too early for this hyperbole guys!!

    "Climb on my back, boys, and I'll take you home." - Cedric Maxwell

    "You show me a good loser, and I'll show you a loser." - Red Auerbach

    "My mind is a raging torrent, flooded with rivulets of thought, cascading into a waterfall of creative alternatives." - Hedley Lamarr

    If no Bynum injury, no Gasol trade - last word!!

    [/QUOTE]

    In 2 years at OK St, plus summer league, Smart has come as advertised: great on D, active on the boards, good handle, gets to the FT line frequently, and struggles with shooting. All in all, even with the weak shooting numbers, Smart will be a good NBA player. In two year in college, Smart has posted elite steal and rebound rates, was elite at getting to the FT line, had an excellent assist rate, and significantly reduced his turnover rate in his sophomore season.

    Young, in his one season at Kentucky was a mediocre shooter (34.9% on 3s) and had terrible block and steal rates. There is nothing there that indicates that he'll be more than replacement level. Ainge fell for the hype: big HS recruit, big school, got hot in the NCAAs. None of which justifies taking him at 17. Clint Capela, Jordan Adams, Mitch McGarry, Kyle Anderson, or Gary Harris would have been better at that spot.

    ...the King of the Rumba Beat...

     

    [/QUOTE]


    [object HTMLDivElement]

    I agree with Adams and Capela....maybe.

    Harris? No.   McGary?  How many PF's do we need.  That would be like taking Randle over Smart.

    Anderson will struggle.  Not and elite athlete.  Best player on his team in college.....THIRD UCLA kid taken.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from myurkus. Show myurkus's posts

    Re: I really,really,really,really,really hope Smart & Young are better than the guys we oassed on.


    90% of the summer league players will be back to selling cars or whatever is they will be doing longterm for a living.  Summer doesn't mean anything.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from joepatsfan111111. Show joepatsfan111111's posts

    Re: I really,really,really,really,really hope Smart & Young are better than the guys we oassed on.

    Da..... After all of the comparisons you made about players the last two months... (Patric Young the next Ben Wallace, Isiah Austin could be as good as Embiid, or the real winner... Comparing our current roster to the Spurs.......) you really cant be one to say what is a good or bad talent based decision in this organization....

     
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