I want to win now........

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from antiqueman1. Show antiqueman1's posts

    I want to win now........

    It has become the new motto of all athletes. And to me it, I am growing tired of it. What happened to hard work pays off? What happened to athletes making other athletes better? What is happening period in sports today?
     
    It seems as if athletes have lost their way today in the sports world. For me, the days of Larry and Magic are so long gone and will forever be missed maybe to never to seen again. Those guys played to win. Played for the LOVE of the Sport. Played for the competition. Those guys made others around them better.

    I still believe if you put a team together with those attributes, you can beat these new spoiled star teams. Of course I would want to win, but winning now is not how I would do so.......
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Karllost. Show Karllost's posts

    Re: I want to win now........

    I think about when I was a kid

    Wether it was basketball or football etc... us neighborhood kids all played sports together and sometimes played kids from another neighborhood in games. We would never think to switch teams to be on the winning side...there was pride & loyalty involved... we wanted to win with our guys and it would have been the ultimate insult to jump teams. 

    The NBA of today has to turn off many people. Fans get invested in their teams players...rooting for them, wanting them to do well... especially its stars.. Living the rollercoaster of winning/losing together.

    Then another season rolls around and 1/3 of them are swapped out.

    We saw BBD play for a number of years.. We're used to what he does & how he does it. He's givin us big thrills on the court, especially in the playoffs after KGs injury. We've all were upset with his issues and poor playing too. We rode that rollercoaster together...

    now, throw that all out thee window & start over with Bass. Ditto with the others that come/go through the revolving door now in the NBA

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from CablesWyndBairn. Show CablesWyndBairn's posts

    Re: I want to win now........

    Good points fellas.  As much as I'd like to have a talent like Chris Paul, Amare Stoudemire, Carmelo Anthony or Dwight Howard, all four players have shown that they're loyal to the almighty dollar and all have openly whined about wanting to be part of a superteam.  It really turns me off to the NBA and the stars of today.  Can you imagine Bird, Magic, Jordan or guys from that era openly complaining about stuff like the guys of today?  I can't. 

    I guess I'm getting too old, but the NBA appeals to me less and less each year for the reasons I mentioned.  Besides the NBA putting a watered down product on the floor, the players of today are just too full of themselves and would rather become media darlings via Twitter than great basketball players.  Think Stockton and Malone would have ather played in NY or LA together?  Maybe so, but they were the face of small market Utah for years, and combos like that will be few and far between going forward. 
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from antiqueman1. Show antiqueman1's posts

    Re: I want to win now........

    In Response to Re: I want to win now........:
    I think about when I was a kid Wether it was basketball or football etc... us neighborhood kids all played sports together and sometimes played kids from another neighborhood in games. We would never think to switch teams to be on the winning side...there was pride & loyalty involved... we wanted to win with our guys and it would have been the ultimate insult to jump teams.  The NBA of today has to turn off many people. Fans get invested in their teams players...rooting for them, wanting them to do well... especially its stars.. Living the rollercoaster of winning/losing together. Then another season rolls around and 1/3 of them are swapped out. We saw BBD play for a number of years.. We're used to what he does & how he does it. He's givin us big thrills on the court, especially in the playoffs after KGs injury. We've all were upset with his issues and poor playing too. We rode that rollercoaster together... now, throw that all out thee window & start over with Bass. Ditto with the others that come/go through the revolving door now in the NBA
    Posted by Karllost


    So true Karl. I remember those days of playing other neighborhood kids. I remember always wanting to win but never switching to a winning team just to win. There was never any satisfaction in that. I remember playing hard, win or lose because I loved to play that sport.

    I guess I get why some older athletes jump ship, like KG did. It was about winning a ring. But at least he put in his time with one organization until he moved on to the C's. He gave the effort with what he was surrounded with for many years.

    The days of old school ball are gone. It is all about the easier way to win now at all costs attitude that has taken over.
     
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  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Karllost. Show Karllost's posts

    Re: I want to win now........

    In Response to Re: I want to win now........:
    Don't forget the CBA during the Larry Bird years was different. For example, there was no luxury tax back then. Winning now is more difficult because of the rules. You can't blame the superstars for wanting to form super teams. We all know if Lebron stayed in Cleveland he was never going to win a championship. Same thing with CP3 if he remained in New Orleans.
    Posted by Fiercest34


    Im really not disagreeing with what the NBA stars are doing, its just its taking the romance & sense of team out of the game for us fans a little.

    I dont blame the players for getting as much $$ as possible cause the owners wouldnt think twice of dumping them for a better deal either. Its strictly business in the NBA for the most part...so they should do whats best for them.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from antiqueman1. Show antiqueman1's posts

    Re: I want to win now........

    In Response to Re: I want to win now........:
    Don't forget the CBA during the Larry Bird years was different. For example, there was no luxury tax back then. Winning now is more difficult because of the rules. You can't blame the superstars for wanting to form super teams. We all know if Lebron stayed in Cleveland he was never going to win a championship. Same thing with CP3 if he remained in New Orleans.
    Posted by Fiercest34


    I hear you Fierce, but I do blame the superstars. If they all stayed put, then the league would at least be more balanced giving them all an equal chance to win. The problem with today's superstars, they struggle to make others around them better. They are to wrapped up in themselves to make others around them better. They are too wrapped up in money, twitter, and selling a product.

    Bird and Magic did not. They made others around them play better, harder. They worked for everthing they got. They earned their rings........
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from painter. Show painter's posts

    Re: I want to win now........

    The problem stems from the owners. The reason there is a luxury tax is because they started handing out huge salaries to build losing teams into winning teams. Now they cry about how they are the injured parties.  The players didn't one day sit down and said, "we won't play until we get more money that any human needs in three lifetimes"and then made those demands of the owners. The problem began with the smaller market expansion teams that felt they had to made an immediate splash, so they bought talent insrtead of waiting for draft picks to pan out or make intelligent trades. Once that began, the large market teams were not going to be out gunned and that led to even more money being thrown around. In the last two CBAs the owners wanted protection from themselves, especially those small markets who made bad business decision and then wanted someone else to bail them out.  
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from OneOnOne. Show OneOnOne's posts

    Re: I want to win now........

    What they are going to end up with is about 4 good teams and the rest the Washing ton generals.   Then there will be less teams and the mediocre player that are cut because they aren't good enough for the new teams are going to wonder why they have be backing the "superstars" in what they want.   Just rambling.  It just peeves me to see Paul talk about the "Clipper History".  You got to be kidding.

     
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  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from puddinpuddin. Show puddinpuddin's posts

    Re: I want to win now........

    In Response to Re: I want to win now........:
    What they are going to end up with is about 4 good teams and the rest the Washing ton generals.   Then there will be less teams and the mediocre player that are cut because they aren't good enough for the new teams are going to wonder why they have be backing the "superstars" in what they want.   Just rambling.  It just peeves me to see Paul talk about the "Clipper History".  You got to be kidding.
    Posted by OneOnOne


    I don't recall CP3 ever talking about "Hornet History."

    Maybe I missed it. Maybe CP3 and I both missed it.

    Pud
     
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  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from CablesWyndBairn. Show CablesWyndBairn's posts

    Re: I want to win now........

    It just peeves me to see Paul talk about the "Clipper History".  You got to be kidding.

    I laughed when I saw Paul's press conference.  I don't balme the guy for wanting to maximize his earnings.  I just hate it when the player wants to handpick the team he goes to and uses leverage like "I won't re-sign if you trade me to Boston".  At least with LeBron, he made it to free agency. All bets are off there.  I selfishly would rather see stars in all markets to make the league more interesting, but I think that's not gonna happen.     
     
     
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    Re: I want to win now........

    In Response to Re: I want to win now........:
    In Response to Re: I want to win now........ : Don't forget during Larry Bird's time it was pure man to man defense, playing zone was not allowed. Back then the NBA was more individualistic, one man can single handedly dominate a game. Today, 3 defenders can guard Kobe or Lebron and it's not illegal defense. By allowing teams to play zone, teams and players are forced to play unselfish basketball. The more great players you have the better chances of winning. I don't think it's fair if Lebron, Melo, CP3, and DH are not allowed to leave their old teams. After all, it's not like those guys only stayed for 2 or 3 seasons. Lebron, Melo, and DH all stayed for 7 years with their old team. CP3 was a Hornet for 6 years. I mean if you were in their position you would leave too.
    Posted by Fiercest34


    How can you write "unselfish" in the same stroke of the hand as "Kobe"?
     
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  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from CablesWyndBairn. Show CablesWyndBairn's posts

    Re: I want to win now........

    In Response to Re: I want to win now........:
    And to think our current Big 3 started this trend. Ugh!
    Posted by Fiercest34


    Hate to sound like a homer, but it's not like KG didn't give it a go in Minny, and it's not like he hand picked the Celtics.  Same with Ray, he was traded because Seattle had issues (stadium) and they were looking to get younger.  I don't think Ray was openly pining for a trade.  And both guys were 30's when they got here.  Bit different in my opinion. 
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from TheDUDDER. Show TheDUDDER's posts

    Re: I want to win now........

    In Response to I want to win now........:
    It has become the new motto of all athletes. And to me it, I am growing tired of it. What happened to hard work pays off? What happened to athletes making other athletes better? What is happening period in sports today?   It seems as if athletes have lost their way today in the sports world. For me, the days of Larry and Magic are so long gone and will forever be missed maybe to never to seen again. Those guys played to win. Played for the LOVE of the Sport. Played for the competition. Those guys made others around them better. I still believe if you put a team together with those attributes, you can beat these new spoiled star teams. Of course I would want to win, but winning now is not how I would do so.......
    Posted by antiqueman1


    The young stars want to play with young stars because they cannot make anymore money they already make and if they can make more, God bless them.  So they want to win... kind of funny how everyone dismisses the Cs as the team that started this process.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from CHEisCHE. Show CHEisCHE's posts

    Re: I want to win now........

    ...what's wrong with "i want to win now"
    especially the generation of me me me me me.
    the older generation are looking for long term and the me me me me generation are
    for short term parking.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from antiqueman1. Show antiqueman1's posts

    Re: I want to win now........

    In Response to Re: I want to win now........:
    It just peeves me to see Paul talk about the "Clipper History".  You got to be kidding. I laughed when I saw Paul's press conference.  I don't balme the guy for wanting to maximize his earnings.  I just hate it when the player wants to handpick the team he goes to and uses leverage like "I won't re-sign if you trade me to Boston".  At least with LeBron, he made it to free agency. All bets are off there.  I selfishly would rather see stars in all markets to make the league more interesting, but I think that's not gonna happen.       
    Posted by CablesWyndBairn


    So true. I guess that is why I have lost interest in the NBA over the past few years. This hand picking self directing player mentality. And you are correct, free agency allows you to do what you want. The league will suffer for all these players teaming up. I guess that is why I will continue to root for them to lose.....
     
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  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from antiqueman1. Show antiqueman1's posts

    Re: I want to win now........

    In Response to Re: I want to win now........:
    In Response to I want to win now........ : The young stars want to play with young stars because they cannot make anymore money they already make and if they can make more, God bless them.  So they want to win... kind of funny how everyone dismisses the Cs as the team that started this process.
    Posted by TheDUDDER


    The C's may have started it, but Garnett and Allen were not in their primes(mid twenties) when going to the C's like many of these players today. They were over thrity correct? They were all on the decline to an extent. So, it is a bit different, but I guess in the end it does not matter what the age is.

    I don't fault players for making the most they can. This thread is not about that. If you ask me, athletes are grossly overpaid. And I can't believe some can't even survive without going bankrupt after they retire. But that should be saved for another thread altogether.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from gman101019. Show gman101019's posts

    Re: I want to win now........

    The NBA tried to come up with a system to help teams resign their own stars by being able to offer a  5 year max money deal compared to if a star fa leaves he can only get a 4 year max deal. So essentially a player is really giving up a good amount of guaranteed money (20%) to be a fa and go to a team of his choice. Thats a good rule. The problem is that if a  player is traded  his new team can now offer that same guarantee of 5 years. HUGE LOOPHOLE.  Now this effects everything. Star player can dictate where they go, limits trade partners for his current team and STILL GET THE MAX DEAL.  What they shouldve done is made a rule where you have to be with a team for lets say 3 years or been originally drafted by team to be eligible for that max 5 year deal or even better make that deal 6 years . This would stop a lot of star players from manipulating the system and going where they want and still getting the money they want. So cp3 u really wanna ball in la you willing to give up that 5th year and $20mill to do it? Same with melo,dhoward and dwill?  

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Celtsfan4life. Show Celtsfan4life's posts

    Re: I want to win now........

    In Response to I want to win now........:
    It has become the new motto of all athletes. And to me it, I am growing tired of it. What happened to hard work pays off? What happened to athletes making other athletes better? What is happening period in sports today?   It seems as if athletes have lost their way today in the sports world. For me, the days of Larry and Magic are so long gone and will forever be missed maybe to never to seen again. Those guys played to win. Played for the LOVE of the Sport. Played for the competition. Those guys made others around them better. I still believe if you put a team together with those attributes, you can beat these new spoiled star teams. Of course I would want to win, but winning now is not how I would do so.......
    Posted by antiqueman1



    Nice to romanticize about the way we thought it was in the past, but try to remember how it ACTUALLY was.  In the era of Magic and Larry?  Magic cam into a team with HOF players and other great players.....Kareem, Worthy, Perkins, Keith Wilkes, etc.  Then, he got Byron Scott and Michael Cooper and Thompson.  Larry?  Within a year of being in the league, he's playing with arguably the best front court ever - Bird, Parish, and McHale.  Add Max, Ainge, eventually DJ, etc.  Jabbar got to play with the Big O and then after he retired, Jabbar said I'm going to the Lakers.  Dr. J didn't win anything until he got to play with Cheeks, Moses Malone, Bobby Jones, and Andrew Toney.  Isaiah Thomas got to play with Lambeair (Sp?), Vinnie the Microwave, Joe Dumars, Dennis Rodman, Mark Acguire, John Salley, etc.  Duncan came into the league getting to play with David Robinson and Sean Elliott and Steve Kerr.  

    The old players who won championships played with very deep teams (mainly because the darn NBA wasn't watered down with so many small market weaker teams!!!).   The new players suffer from playing with guys who would not normally be in the league back then so I don't blame them for wanting to be and demanding to be on better teams with better talent after they've suffered 7 years (Lebron) on weaker teams.  Lebron got tired of losing to Boston, San Antonio, Detroit, etc.  He, Wade, Carmelo, Howard, CP3 etc got to see Kobe play with Odom, Bynum, Gasol, and Artest or the C's play with Garnett, Ray, Paul, and Rondo and finally said - I want some of that - I'm tired of having to be a one star team.

    I don't blame them and I'm proud that they actually want to WIN and not just be the star of their team all by themselves.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from antiqueman2. Show antiqueman2's posts

    Re: I want to win now........

    C's fan i have to agree to disagree with your response. Your final 2 sentences make my point. These players got tired of loosing because it was always "me" first, team second. Lebron and others did not make players around him(them) better. If anything, he(they) impeeded their development because it was always about the king or their numbers.

    You say you are proud of them for pooling their talents to win. If they actually wanted to win, then they should have played more team ball throughout their young careers. Period.

    They are their own worst enemies because just changing teams won't make them winners. Their star attitude(egos) will cause more failures then successes. Proof was in the pudding last year when the Heat failed.

    These players don't play for the love of the game anymore, they play for the money and the quick ride to glory. Well, without hard work and willingness to sacrafice your egos, most will fall short of one of those 2 prizes.

    The C's did it because they shared the load. And don't forget, Kg and Allen did not pre-plan to come to Boston. Plus they were already in their 30's(past real prime) when they won a championship.

    It is terrible when you can't remember email address or passwords....haha
     
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