I was wrong about Jeff Green

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    Re: I was wrong about Jeff Green

    How much did we pay JON?

    PA
     
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    Re: I was wrong about Jeff Green

    Many people felt the same way.......and I had forgotten you even said that.  I'll take what Green gives us on O vs the holes in his D.  If he's out there with KG, it won't matter.  I think DA HAS to resign him, or else we gave Perk away for nothing.  Rumors are the CBA will be lower, but we can match any offer, so we'll probably low ball him at first.  He runs well, he posts well, and his D will come.  A very good trade overall!
     
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    Re: I was wrong about Jeff Green

    Green will be resigned and will be a main cog in our team for a while I feel. As for the not in the paint enough,W T F? He's got a great inside game on offense . He can get his shot off down low against anyone,he can rebound well but our system really doesn't lend itself to wing O rebounding. If you notice his drawing his man out to the far perimeter on the wing has forced his man out there because of his range has really opened up the lane for everyone,especially Baby, when he's in the game. He could put up better numbers but has the dicipline to stay within the set play than to always look for his stats. Like I said when the trade first happened , WE stole Green,Kristic,and a first from the Thunder for a guy that wasn't going to resign and wanted to go live back in the land of rednecks. 
     
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    Re: I was wrong about Jeff Green

    In Response to I was wrong about Jeff Green:
    we have now had a good 10-12 games look at Green, and I was wrong on him with some of my comments. I think he plays longer than I originally thought. He gets his shot off with ease, and is much more at ease taking the mid range jumper than I saw with OKC. I wish he was willing to play in the paint more, but so far I don't see that part of his game. I see a lot of holes in Green's defense. He is seemingly over powered, and is too easy off of his feet trying for the block. Green seems to have a knack at altering the shot on his man, but so far his help defense looks non existent. I prefer what Green brings over what Marquis brings. I question if Green is going to be worth the qualifying offer of $5.9 mil next year. Have to see what the cap is, and who else is out there. I think there are a lot of guys who have a very similar game to Green, but Green to my eye "gets it". He will be happy with his role off of the bench, without complaint. He plays smarter than I thought, and his brain cramps that I saw with OKC so far I do not see with the Celts.  I like Green in the rotation for the play-offs, and I hope he is resigned for next year, but I am not sure if his number of $5.9 is worth it?    
    Posted by rkarp

    I agree with alot of your comments however I don't agree about not seeing Green in the paint.  I repeatedly have seen him post up and shoot over guys with that little baby hook. I think his offensive game is very complete.
     
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    Re: I was wrong about Jeff Green

    5.9 mill. is a steal for a player of Greens stature.  Didnt we sign Scal to 3 or 5 mill. a year?  Hel, JON is making 5.5 mill this year to rehab for next year..I think we can make room for a guy actually contributing...
     
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    Re: I was wrong about Jeff Green

    Green is defenitely going to command more than 5.9 mill. The biggest reason we made the trade is once marquis was injured, we were literally left without a backup for paul. Danny had no choice but to make a move for a 3, and when you also factor in that da KNEW he wouldnt resign perk  for what he would command he made the move. The biggest difference with perk and greens contract situation is green is restricted so we can match any offer, but perk was unrestricted and da knew someone would overpay perk and wed be left with NOTHING.
     
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    Re: I was wrong about Jeff Green

    I think there are only two big issues with Green's game and I think they are fixable over the off season (or maybe the rest of this year).   (1)  Like 'Quis and like BBD at times, when he gets the ball - he's a black hole.  The ball freezes as he thinks about his move and tries to slowly back his man in ala Charles Barkley.  That freezes the offense and produces no chance at rebounds.   He has to move faster on his move or send the ball back around to someone else.   (2) he is caught out of position on his man to man  D and gets beat.  Rather than forcing his man to help defense, he lets his man go to their strong hand (sometimes baseline) where they have the advantage.   

    Green is a good midrange and decent long range shooter, runs the court with speed, can jump, can finish at the rim, and can rebound.   He's well worth the $5.9M and more.  If we can keep him and BBD, what we'll need is a true center and a very athletic 2 guard.  Rondo, Green, and BBD are the start of a replacement for the Big 3, but we need 2 more "stars" to really be challengers long term.
     
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    Re: I was wrong about Jeff Green

    In Response to Re: I was wrong about Jeff Green:
    How much did we pay JON? PA
    Posted by PACelt


    Agree about Jon.  What a bad signing he has turned out to be for this season.
    Hopefully, he will decide to retire after this year.  I wish that Rasheed hadn't decided to retire.  We never would have signed Jon.  At least Rasheed played for the entire season and was a terrific help during the playoffs.  I don't expect that Jon will contribute anything for us during the playoffs. 
     
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    Re: I was wrong about Jeff Green

    In Response to Re: I was wrong about Jeff Green:
    Green is defenitely going to command more than 5.9 mill. The biggest reason we made the trade is once marquis was injured, we were literally left without a backup for paul. Danny had no choice but to make a move for a 3, and when you also factor in that da KNEW he wouldnt resign perk  for what he would command he made the move. The biggest difference with perk and greens contract situation is green is restricted so we can match any offer, but perk was unrestricted and da knew someone would overpay perk and wed be left with NOTHING.
    Posted by gman101019


    You think some other team will offer Jeff Green more than 5.9 mill?
     
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    Re: I was wrong about Jeff Green

    Green is going to get much better on defense.  He will learn the schemes and come to recognize the value of defense as part of a unit. 

    I think you all underestimate the value of Green on the open market. It will be quite a bit higher.  
     
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    Re: I was wrong about Jeff Green

    Green was a starter and he is now a back up.

    He will get better as we play better teams, and integrates with the first and second teams. Time will tell how good he will be with a team first concept.

    He is still learning the defense and the offense.
     
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    Re: I was wrong about Jeff Green

    Green should be getting close to 7-8mil next year.  Dont short change him.  As far as BBD, some near he same.  He doesnt have the intangibles like long range shooting, speed, and leaping ability so he should come in around 6-7mil a year.
     
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    Re: I was wrong about Jeff Green

    ONLY differences I see with the above arguments:

    BBD is UNrestricted, so he will go to the highest bidder - Celtics, I'm sure have an idea what he is worth to them.  He may not be back, but I hope he is for reasonable money.  Rame seems to think we can offer him, like 4/30?  I would do that.

    Green is restricted.  Celtics can make him ANY offer they want, then he can shop around, get another offer, which we will match.  Usually RFA's don't leave because no one wants to get into a bidding war.  I think BBD gets more than Green right now, but I think Green is the better player!
     
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    Re: I was wrong about Jeff Green

    The point is some other team is going to have to offer significantly more than the 5.9 knowing that the cs can match any offer,advantage cs. They get to see what offers are available and have the last opportunity to match it. With perk,  it similiar to the ta situation last year. Ta gets a good offer from grizz and the cs dont have the opportunity match any offer as he was an unrestricted fa and he took off to memphis.
    Bbaby last year also was a restricted fa and the cs waited and waited when no other team offered him the mid level that he was looking for the cs scooped him up at 3 mil, of course another team would love to have bbaby at 3 mil but whats the point of offering it and get tied up and missing on another fa while u know the cs are going to match anyway.
     
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    Re: I was wrong about Jeff Green

    I like Jeff Green but to me he seems like a 3rd or 4th fiddle on a bona fide contender.  Is he a guy you rebuild with?  Possibly, but you'd need to have a lot of good talent around him. 
     
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    Re: I was wrong about Jeff Green

    hope Green signs the $5.9M deal for first yr , with raises to $10-12M , with $12M option for 4th yr

    great player to team with Rondo and Big 3

    hope both Jeff Green and Big Baby Davis get signed to 3+ yr deals

    would like to see Delonte back for another year too...

     
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    Re: I was wrong about Jeff Green

    Green is a significant long term talent. He's got a ton of upside. He's a positive five to eight years of NBA starting career ahead of himself. He brings something to the court every time he steps on it. Other teams have to plan for him. 

    $ Doesn't matter he fits here, he's got Standells Dirty Water stuff about him.    
     
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    Re: I was wrong about Jeff Green

    Green will play in multiple All Star games. He is 24, DURABLE, versatile and a threat at multiple positions on both ends of the floor .
     
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    Re: I was wrong about Jeff Green

    In Response to Re: I was wrong about Jeff Green:
    In Response to Re: I was wrong about Jeff Green : Pete, To look at the most even playing field, I prefer the metric "player efficiency rating" (PER). It is not with out faults, but my opinion it is the best metric to review for fairly rating a player. W Chandler and T PRince are ranked as SF and are ranked #13 with a per of 15.27 M Williams is ranked as a SF and his rank is #27 at 13.20 per Gallo is a PF ranked #32 at 16.04 per Blatche is a PF ranked #38 at 15.43 per Jeff Green is ranked as a PF and is at #55 with a per of 13.10 Would Greens rank be better as a SF? Maybe. Can he defend the quicker 3's? Not sure. Is he worth $6M? From what I have seen, no. 
    Posted by rkarp

    aren't these rating based mostly on what he did in OKC where it seems he was miscast?   Already in Boston he is scoring substantially more on a per minute basis even though he is just starting to get integrated into the Celtic team offence and defense.        WHat does his per look like if you just take the last 10 day or so?  (a small but arguably most relevant sample) where he has averaaged more than a point per 2 minutes, one turnover per 40 min!   fg% over 500  and 3's at .444.   if the so called '"player efficiency rating" doesn't value those numbers highly there is something askew in the algorithm.

    and by the way, I'm not real familiar with the usefulness of per in determinating a players value.... so I looked up the per for Paul pierce in 2007-8 celtics championship year.        Paul's 19.9 per placed him as th 36th most valuable player in the NBA,,, Is that about where you would place him?   hmmm      

     Thinking my memory was failing and he must have had a bad regular season ...     I checked the post season per for pierce... I knew he was chosen as the finals MVP so you would think his per would be right up there...       I guess my memory isn't so good    Pierce's  post season per 18.1  
    He was the 23rd most valuable player in the 2008 playoffs!!!!   Damn maybe Danny can get some of his money back...   Pierce obviously wasn't worth it.  
    And I could have sworn the celtics won that year but the lakers big 3, Kobe 4th highest per, Gasol 12 th highest per and Odem 16th highest PER  were so much better than the celtic mvp that the Lakers must have won!


    Then I came across this little tidbit about the PER formula for rating players 
    "Hollinger argues that each two point field goal made is worth about 1.65 points. A three point field goal made is worth 2.65 points. A missed field goal, though, costs a team 0.72 points. Given these values, with a bit of math we can show that a player will break even on his two point field goal attempts if he hits on 30.4% of these shots. On three pointers the break-even point is 21.4%. If a player exceeds these thresholds, and virtually every NBA player does so with respect to two-point shots, the more he shoots the higher his value in PERs. So a player can be an inefficient scorer and simply inflate his value by taking a large number of shots."

    In other words this rating is just misnamed..   It shouldn't be the player efficiency rating ....  it should be called the BCI   Ball chucker index.   

    so find a better metric before you undervalue an obviously talented player like Green.


     
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