I would rather see Wafer at the 2 than West

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  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from JayShizzle45. Show JayShizzle45's posts

    Re: I would rather see Wafer at the 2 than West

    You may be on to something Kirk.  I believe Wafer is a better 3 pt shooter right now.  West just doesnt have his full arsenal or confidence right now.  We are really playing him out of necessity, but he is probably too hurt to be effective.  I would rather him be resting right now , honestly I would rather him get right, then keep coming back early.  Rondo should be able to dominate the remainder of this series, even if Billups plays...he is just not a stopper anymore.

    I would rather have West in later series.  Wafer can dribble better now cuz he has the use of both his hands.  he looked hungry in that last game, but Doc is too paranoid to play anyone else....it brings me to an observation made this w/e.  A lot of teams are relying on their bench in the playoffs, and here we are doing all this tampering to get a good bench and we dont even play the guys!....This is why our big 4 are gonna be gassed in the end....We need to play them regardless of their performance,. let them work it out...or they will never help.
     
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    Re: I would rather see Wafer at the 2 than West

    Yup..

    Wafer deserves some time.. hes played well for a long period (interupted by his injury).  Hes one of the better shooters & can get to the rim.

    Doc falls in love with the idea of a short rotation and it seems no matter what the circumstances, he's gonna stick with it.


     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from cole-ely. Show cole-ely's posts

    Re: I would rather see Wafer at the 2 than West

    Agreed.  Wafer brings more energy.  Play Dwest for the time that you need him to back up rondo, but I like wafer better at the two as well. At least until he recovers more and gets a bit more rythm.  Wafer has earned his pt in my eyes.
     
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    Re: I would rather see Wafer at the 2 than West

    In Response to Re: I would rather see Wafer at the 2 than West:
    Wafer blew any chance of getting signifgant burn on that missed dunk showboat move. He was probably on the cusp but that sealed the deal for Doc. That being said I like his athleticism. It's not something the Celtics have much of.
    Posted by tompenny


    Come on. He took it hard to the hoop. He probably made the playoff rotation with that intensity. It went horribly wrong and was pretty funny. You can only play so many guys and have them be effective. It is tough to come into a game cold and do much. You have to remember how long these guys sit on the bench before they go in.
     
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    Re: I would rather see Wafer at the 2 than West

    Its working for Indiana....they are practically playing their whole bench and outplaying chicago, only to lose due to furious one man comebacks by Rose.  That has got the be frustrating for Indy, but for a team nobody had doing anything they are making CHI work.  Considering they have no real defensive philosophy in place yet, and seeing as we are the # 1 defense and stress team help defense, I cant see Rose beating us by himself for 4 games.  We will have a plan for him if/when we play..this is why we looked like cra p against them last game, after going 3-1 agains them...Doc didnt want to show his plan for Rose, IMO
     
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    Re: I would rather see Wafer at the 2 than West

    I'm cool with giving Wafer a chance. I'll pass the note along to Doc. :)
     
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    Re: I would rather see Wafer at the 2 than West

    In Response to Re: I would rather see Wafer at the 2 than West:
    Wafer blew any chance of getting signifgant burn on that missed dunk showboat move. He was probably on the cusp but that sealed the deal for Doc. That being said I like his athleticism. It's not something the Celtics have much of.
    Posted by tompenny

    Rather have him blow a showboat with confidence than have him play timid.
     
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    Re: I would rather see Wafer at the 2 than West

    All of these posts are about whether or not Wafer is better or as good offensively.  However, I'm surprised at this from Celtics fans.  What wins championships?   Defense.  Its not glamorous, but its critical to our team.  Wafer is not half the defensive player that Delonte is.  That's why DW gets much more playing time.  Did you see him chase his man around picks all the way under the basket and then back out to the 3 point land?   We all wish Rondo would do that rather than stopping after the first pick.

    That's why West gets more playing time in Doc's system.   I'd rather have West any day.   He's as good or better offensively and massively better defensively.
     
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    Re: I would rather see Wafer at the 2 than West

    Here's a novel idea. How about finding some time for both of them?
     
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    Re: I would rather see Wafer at the 2 than West

    I like Wafer and Pavlovic. They can both shoot threes and and can go to the hoop. Murphy can shoot threes and rebound. Green needs to play at least 20 minutes and turn him loose to shoot.

    Here is the problem: Doc Rivers has a game plan that never changes even when change is in your face. He makes changes that are totall predictable when and with whomever. He is like an engineer with a blue print. We are stuck with him.

    And what about Kristic hardly playing in the first game. Dah! Plus Big Baby needs to stop shooting those long jumpers. OOPS! That is docs fault, when you have only two three point shooters out there. And one of them waits till the last two periods to get it going. Guess who???

    We need interior rebounding and we have it, but Doc doesn't have that in his game plan.

    Sorry.

     
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    Re: I would rather see Wafer at the 2 than West

    In Response to Re: I would rather see Wafer at the 2 than West:
    All of these posts are about whether or not Wafer is better or as good offensively.  However, I'm surprised at this from Celtics fans.  What wins championships?   Defense.  Its not glamorous, but its critical to our team.  Wafer is not half the defensive player that Delonte is.  That's why DW gets much more playing time.  Did you see him chase his man around picks all the way under the basket and then back out to the 3 point land?   We all wish Rondo would do that rather than stopping after the first pick. That's why West gets more playing time in Doc's system.   I'd rather have West any day.   He's as good or better offensively and massively better defensively.
    Posted by Celtsfan4life

    Rondo was fifth in defensive play of the year voting (the only point guard to be so) he has been on the all defensive team twice, his defensive statistics are the best among point guards in the league and he is second in the league in steals. I'd say if Delonte played defense as good as Rondo he'd be starting.


     
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    Re: I would rather see Wafer at the 2 than West

    In Response to Re: I would rather see Wafer at the 2 than West:
    Here's a novel idea. How about finding some time for both of them?
    Posted by OneNation



    Won't happen. In the playoffs because there are no back to backs so the coaches play the starters long minutes. The second stringers get the rest, and there is no time for the third. 

    Not to mention Doc has decided based on his expertise that the Celtics are better with Delonte, unless it is a dire emergency why would he bring in the guy he thinks is less good? 
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from cole-ely. Show cole-ely's posts

    Re: I would rather see Wafer at the 2 than West

    I'm not sure I feel that dwest has played any better defense than wafer to be honest.  Wafer has come up with some big defensive plays this year...steals and such.  I suppose west is a more solid defender.

    My only thought was that maybe it would reduce west's chances of re-injuring his ankle and we could ease him in more slowly.
     
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    Re: I would rather see Wafer at the 2 than West

    In Response to Re: I would rather see Wafer at the 2 than West:
    All of these posts are about whether or not Wafer is better or as good offensively.  However, I'm surprised at this from Celtics fans.  What wins championships?   Defense.  Its not glamorous, but its critical to our team.  Wafer is not half the defensive player that Delonte is.  That's why DW gets much more playing time.  Did you see him chase his man around picks all the way under the basket and then back out to the 3 point land?   We all wish Rondo would do that rather than stopping after the first pick. That's why West gets more playing time in Doc's system.   I'd rather have West any day.   He's as good or better offensively and massively better defensively.
    Posted by Celtsfan4life


    We all love D.West, but he cant be counted on and is playing with one arm.  He is not confidence scoring the ball and atleast for this series,  I would like to see Wafer,...i dont think his man is gonna kill him anyway...so its not like he is guarding Chauncey, but he wants to score...if Green keeps playing timid, our bench is gonna get us behind again.  Say what you want about defensive winning championships...this I agree with,,,just dont think that it necessarilly wins you round 1.  We have a good defensive team, but we cant go through scoring droughts against the knicks who can score.  I would like for them both to play.  Raise your hand if you believe this team can go all the way with a 7 man rotation??  This team will wear out quick...Doc better find a way to get some of these guys some minutes...Indiana looks good using their bench...and our big 4 need rest!!  Im so sick of guys wasting away on the bench,,,if thats the case, why make the trade anyway if you only gonna play 7 guys?!?!
     
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    Re: I would rather see Wafer at the 2 than West

    In Response to Re: I would rather see Wafer at the 2 than West:
    In Response to Re: I would rather see Wafer at the 2 than West : We all love D.West, but he cant be counted on and is playing with one arm.  He is not confidence scoring the ball and atleast for this series,  I would like to see Wafer,...i dont think his man is gonna kill him anyway...so its not like he is guarding Chauncey, but he wants to score...if Green keeps playing timid, our bench is gonna get us behind again.  Say what you want about defensive winning championships...this I agree with,,,just dont think that it necessarilly wins you round 1.  We have a good defensive team, but we cant go through scoring droughts against the knicks who can score.  I would like for them both to play.  Raise your hand if you believe this team can go all the way with a 7 man rotation??  This team will wear out quick...Doc better find a way to get some of these guys some minutes...Indiana looks good using their bench...and our big 4 need rest!!  Im so sick of guys wasting away on the bench,,,if thats the case, why make the trade anyway if you only gonna play 7 guys?!?!
    Posted by JayShizzle45

     
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    Re: I would rather see Wafer at the 2 than West

    In Response to Re: I would rather see Wafer at the 2 than West:
    I like Wafer and Pavlovic. They can both shoot threes and and can go to the hoop. Murphy can shoot threes and rebound. Green needs to play at least 20 minutes and turn him loose to shoot. Here is the problem: Doc Rivers has a game plan that never changes even when change is in your face. He makes changes that are totall predictable when and with whomever. He is like an engineer with a blue print. We are stuck with him. And what about Kristic hardly playing in the first game. Dah! Plus Big Baby needs to stop shooting those long jumpers. OOPS! That is docs fault, when you have only two three point shooters out there. And one of them waits till the last two periods to get it going. Guess who??? We need interior rebounding and we have it, but Doc doesn't have that in his game plan. Sorry.
    Posted by celticsince1958



    Yes, Darn that Doc for doing what every team does - shorten your rotation in the playoffs and play the players who will contribute the most.  Sasha and Murphy have NO history of good playoff performance.  Murphy's performance all this year was horrid (at NJ and after he joined the Celts).  Sasha showed with Cleveland he was irrelevant.  In the year he played the most minutes in Cleveland, he shot 29% from 3 point land.  Over his career, he shoots 35% from 3 point land and averages 1.5 Rebounds, 1 assist, and 5.3 points per game.  and add to that, neither of these guys can play good enough defense on the athletic players of the Knicks. THAT'S the guy you want to play important minutes when we are fighting for our playoff lives?

    Sorry, I can't agree.  I'd go with BBD, Green, Krstic, West, and maybe Wafer as the players who'll get playing time.   Otherwise, the other guys don't deserve to be on the court.
     
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    Re: I would rather see Wafer at the 2 than West

    Doc Rivers is not going to change until it gets desperate, if even then. Think about this. Since about 1/3 of the way into the season, almost every game has been close. Even against the worst teams.

    1. The Celtics are too predictable
    2. They are too slow
     
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    Re: I would rather see Wafer at the 2 than West

    In Response to Re: I would rather see Wafer at the 2 than West:
    In Response to Re: I would rather see Wafer at the 2 than West : We all love D.West, but he cant be counted on and is playing with one arm.  He is not confidence scoring the ball and atleast for this series,  I would like to see Wafer,...i dont think his man is gonna kill him anyway...so its not like he is guarding Chauncey, but he wants to score...if Green keeps playing timid, our bench is gonna get us behind again.  Say what you want about defensive winning championships...this I agree with,,,just dont think that it necessarilly wins you round 1.  We have a good defensive team, but we cant go through scoring droughts against the knicks who can score.  I would like for them both to play.  Raise your hand if you believe this team can go all the way with a 7 man rotation??  This team will wear out quick...Doc better find a way to get some of these guys some minutes...Indiana looks good using their bench...and our big 4 need rest!!  Im so sick of guys wasting away on the bench,,,if thats the case, why make the trade anyway if you only gonna play 7 guys?!?!
    Posted by JayShizzle45


    Results matter.  As Doc says:  These are the best conditioned athletes in the world!  With a days rest (no back to backs), there's no excuse for not playing high minutes.  We'll go 9 players deep and 10 if Shaq ever played (big if!!).   Indiana looks good playing with a long bench - but they are down 2 to 0.  You want the best team on the floor to WIN, not to look good showing your bench......and LOSE.
     
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    Re: I would rather see Wafer at the 2 than West

    I never mentioned Pav or Murphy for that matter, I was reffering to Wafer. I see teams using their bench,,,yes it may  be shortened, but not like our bench.  I also disagree that Pav cant play d on athletic guys...he was manning up with Bill Walker last week and Walker was looking for the ref when Pav came back at him. Im just saying they sold us on the trade saying we need backups and now Green is here and not getting enough time or plays called for him,,,we are forcing back a one handed guy after getting Arroyo,,,so you can believe we will go all the way playing 7 guys if you want...
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Celtsfan4life. Show Celtsfan4life's posts

    Re: I would rather see Wafer at the 2 than West

    I disagree that Green is not getting enough playing time.  He is and just not performing in his minutes.  He now has three fouls and all of them not smart.  He's missed his shots in close.  Don't blame that on the coach.  Blame that on the player just not delivering.

    You may not have mentioned Sasha and Murphy but read the other posts in this thread and see that they were being pushed as needing to get more time.

    While I respect your opinions on this matter, i just totally disagree because all of the facts and all of their performance stats say they can't deliver, other than Green......and he's clearly not playing well (and neither is BBD).  Our bench is just sucking big time and I don't want to go deeper to guys who aren't even as good as BBD, West, and Green.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Celtsfan4life. Show Celtsfan4life's posts

    Re: I would rather see Wafer at the 2 than West

    In Response to Re: I would rather see Wafer at the 2 than West:
    I like Wafer and Pavlovic. They can both shoot threes and and can go to the hoop. Murphy can shoot threes and rebound. Green needs to play at least 20 minutes and turn him loose to shoot. Here is the problem: Doc Rivers has a game plan that never changes even when change is in your face. He makes changes that are totall predictable when and with whomever. He is like an engineer with a blue print. We are stuck with him. And what about Kristic hardly playing in the first game. Dah! Plus Big Baby needs to stop shooting those long jumpers. OOPS! That is docs fault, when you have only two three point shooters out there. And one of them waits till the last two periods to get it going. Guess who??? We need interior rebounding and we have it, but Doc doesn't have that in his game plan. Sorry.
    Posted by celticsince1958

    JaySizzle, see this post above and you'll see what I responded to.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from JayShizzle45. Show JayShizzle45's posts

    Re: I would rather see Wafer at the 2 than West

    I hear, I guess we can wait until baby gets it together, but I just feel in this particular instance, these guys are playing like crap and gonna cost us a game, you think Wafe or Pav wont be motivated if they got in?  They just played against these last week and it was the same bench and a couple starters...so it would be the perfect time and series to do, this way you know,....and to be honest , this doesnt even feel like a playoff game, we are doing a classic late season "play down to the competition"  Baby is b*thing up, play Pav, far as I know he did ok in the playoffs with cleveland, and He played great just last week against the same team.  You are not gonna get that oppty again...I hear what you are sayin normally, but this game needs a spark from someone and baby or west aint Doin' it...
     
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    Re: I would rather see Wafer at the 2 than West

    I like 'em both, but I was quite happy to have Delonte in there at the end.  He showed how CLUTCH he is!!!
     
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