I'm down with the players!

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from N2thaIzzo. Show N2thaIzzo's posts

    I'm down with the players!

    I think the majority of the owners in the league suck at their jobs, that is why they are losing money.  The owners are just looking for an easy way out by requesting a bigger slice of the pie (although I do agree that the players getting 57% is a bit much), and trying to institute a hard cap.  The owners want more money....?  Increase the revenues!  Figure out how to draft, offer reasonable contracts, work the salary cap, blah, blah, blah and put a decent team on the court.  That is what gets fans to come and spend their money, and that is what will put more money in the owners hand.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Red-16Russ-11. Show Red-16Russ-11's posts

    Re: I'm down with the players!

    In Response to I'm down with the players!:
    I think the majority of the owners in the league suck at their jobs, that is why they are losing money.  The owners are just looking for an easy way out by requesting a bigger slice of the pie (although I do agree that the players getting 57% is a bit much), and trying to institute a hard cap.  The owners want more money....?  Increase the revenues!  Figure out how to draft, offer reasonable contracts, work the salary cap, blah, blah, blah and put a decent team on the court.  That is what gets fans to come and spend their money, and that is what will put more money in the owners hand.
    Posted by N2thaIzzo


    They can't increase the revenues, because the players will then get more.  They can't offer reasonable contracts under the current system, because teams with more money like the lakers will always come along and trump it.  They can't work the salary cap UNLESS it's a hard cap.
    Now, I don't sympathize with either side, really, but I think the players will cave on this - they've had it too good for too long and have made their own bed, so to speak!!
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from CHEisCHE. Show CHEisCHE's posts

    Re: I'm down with the players!

    Weasel Stern created a monster!!

    The owners are investors...they need to make money.
    The players are greedy, controlled by stupid union.

    The commisioner control the management--so, whose to blame?

    The manager!
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from N2thaIzzo. Show N2thaIzzo's posts

    Re: I'm down with the players!

    In Response to Re: I'm down with the players!:
    In Response to I'm down with the players! : They can't increase the revenues, because the players will then get more.  They can't offer reasonable contracts under the current system, because teams with more money like the lakers will always come along and trump it.  They can't work the salary cap UNLESS it's a hard cap. Now, I don't sympathize with either side, really, but I think the players will cave on this - they've had it too good for too long and have made their own bed, so to speak!!
    Posted by Red-16Russ-11


    1)  If they increase revenues, they will get more.  43% of $100 is more than 43% of $50, isn't it?

    2)  Since when does spending more money equal having a better team?  OKC had a payroll of $53.5 mill last season.  That was less than the payroll of Phoenix, Detroit, Milwaukee, and Philly (and probably more), who has the better team of those named?  Know why OKC is so good?  They drafted well, and they MANAGED THEIR SPENDING!!!
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Red-16Russ-11. Show Red-16Russ-11's posts

    Re: I'm down with the players!

    In Response to Re: I'm down with the players!:
    In Response to Re: I'm down with the players! : 1)  If they increase revenues, they will get more.  43% of $100 is more than 43% of $50, isn't it? 2)  Since when does spending more money equal having a better team?  OKC had a payroll of $53.5 mill last season.  That was less than the payroll of Phoenix, Detroit, Milwaukee, and Philly (and probably more), who has the better team of those named?  Know why OKC is so good?  They drafted well, and they MANAGED THEIR SPENDING!!!
    Posted by N2thaIzzo


    They don't want 43% of 100, they want at least 50.  The players have taken 57% the entire last CBA - owners want to make up for it.

    Know who had the highest payroll in the league?  LAL, BOS, MIA and DAL!  Yes, I do know why OKC is so good.  Because SEA was so bad for so long, they got two very high draft picks.  Luck has a lot to do with it.  POR drafted Oden and Roy - bad choices?  NO, but you can't count on inury.  The Clips drafted Blake Griffin and had to wait a whole year for him.  Are you saying you know CLE will be good this year because they drafted well??  Under the current system, the OKC's of the world will only get so far because the LAL's and Cubans of the world will always out-spend them in the end.  The whole thing needs to be fixed!  But again, I just wish there is a season, not siding with either one  here!
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from BiasLewis. Show BiasLewis's posts

    Re: I'm down with the players!

    The owners have given out bad to horrible contracts AND NOW they want the players to pay for it. They accepted the deal when the last CBA was agreed too and now they want to change the rules.

    Hire better GMs and stop giving out money to marginal players. Period!
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from CHEisCHE. Show CHEisCHE's posts

    Re: I'm down with the players!

    Know why OKC is so good?  They drafted well, and they MANAGED THEIR SPENDING!!!

    its a cycle....its not because they drafted well and manage well.
    those days are over
    the commiz has to distribute the wealth
    after OKC, the commiz has to turn his power in other direction and will oversee
    whose team needed to be boosted....its fixed!

    after the commiz help, they will be left alone for years and will operate outside the commiz priority team, from there you will see their true skin.

    true to chicago with rose, clippers with blake griffin, new orlean with chris paul
    etc...etc....etc...  oh, now the commiz rewarding cleveland 

    the system is more controlled from the top by... the WEASEL STERN

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Duke4. Show Duke4's posts

    Re: I'm down with the players!

    I'm on the owners' side......this started around the time Magic signed that contract....what was it?  ....a million dollar/20 year deal?.....whatever, I think it was almost unheard of at the time...so whoever signed him to that contract is an owner at fault.....it got totally out of hand (as it has in most sports)....just look at our Celtics...I see that we just picked up Bradly's option...so for a guy who #1 didn't play and #2 we don't know that he can play.....he is guaranteed $1.5M.....?

    As Patrick Ewing was quoted....."sure we make a lot of money...but we spend a lot of money too"!

    And Letrell Sprewell was quoted when he turned down a multi million dollar long term contract..."I have to be able to feed my family"!

    These guys are out of touch with the real world.....the owners are not asking them to stop being multi millionaires for crying out loud!!! 
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from BostonTrollSpanker. Show BostonTrollSpanker's posts

    Re: I'm down with the players!

    It's good you're down the the players as they are going down. 

    The midlevel exception is one example of the problem, it's the same as some of the highest salaries in hockey. 

    Owners have helped to make this bed, no doubt about that, but I hate the guaranteed contracts in the NBA. Paying off guys like Vin Baker and Raef for years after they left due to the guaranteed contracts hurts teams. 

    There are loads of structural problems like multi-year guaranteed contracts, and those are not simply cured by an infatuation with "smart management." 


     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from N2thaIzzo. Show N2thaIzzo's posts

    Re: I'm down with the players!

    In Response to Re: I'm down with the players!:
    I'm on the owners' side......this started around the time Magic signed that contract....what was it?  ....a million dollar/20 year deal?.....whatever, I think it was almost unheard of at the time...so whoever signed him to that contract is an owner at fault.....it got totally out of hand (as it has in most sports)....just look at our Celtics...I see that we just picked up Bradly's option...so for a guy who #1 didn't play and #2 we don't know that he can play.....he is guaranteed $1.5M.....? As Patrick Ewing was quoted....."sure we make a lot of money...but we spend a lot of money too"! And Letrell Sprewell was quoted when he turned down a multi million dollar long term contract..."I have to be able to feed my family"! These guys are out of touch with the real world.....the owners are not asking them to stop being multi millionaires for crying out loud!!! 
    Posted by Duke4


    Ok, but why is it the player's fault that the spending is out of hand?  Stop signing bad deals.  Everyone and their mother complained when Joe Johnson got a max contract from ATL.  Why would ATL even consider a max deal for him.  He don't wanna sign for less?  Bye!  Same thing Ainge did with Antoine.

    And please, stop with the player quotes.  NBA players deserve every dime they can get.  They are the suppliers of revenue to the league.  Noone would pay to see David Kahn and the Maloofs play ball.  The fact is the players put themselves in a position to demand millions of dollars, just as rocks stars and actors do.  If someone wants to pay me a million plus to ride the pine, why wouldn't i take it?
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Red-16Russ-11. Show Red-16Russ-11's posts

    Re: I'm down with the players!

    In Response to Re: I'm down with the players!:
    In Response to Re: I'm down with the players! : Ok, but why is it the player's fault that the spending is out of hand?  Stop signing bad deals.  Everyone and their mother complained when Joe Johnson got a max contract from ATL.  Why would ATL even consider a max deal for him.  He don't wanna sign for less?  Bye!  Same thing Ainge did with Antoine. And please, stop with the player quotes.  NBA players deserve every dime they can get.  They are the suppliers of revenue to the league.  Noone would pay to see David Kahn and the Maloofs play ball.  The fact is the players put themselves in a position to demand millions of dollars, just as rocks stars and actors do.  If someone wants to pay me a million plus to ride the pine, why wouldn't i take it?
    Posted by N2thaIzzo


    You just defeated your own argument.  If Kahn or the Maloofs owned an NFL team they WOULD be making money...........it's the Weasel's job to be their advocate!  Also, how did the players put themselves in a position to demand millions of dollars?  The team drafted them, paid them, gave them insurance and basically took care of them.  The best players get paid the best.  It's the middle ground players that get paid too much.  You HAVE to sign them, or someone else will.  The moving of players is too easy, it should be much harder to change teams than it is.  Posey going from BOS to NO should never have been allowed.  It was the SAME money for 3 years!!  The fact NO offered 4 years (at the same rate) is irresponsible and should never be allowed - the whole systen needs an enema!
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from jrleftfoot. Show jrleftfoot's posts

    Re: I'm down with the players!

    In Response to Re: I'm down with the players!:
    In Response to Re: I'm down with the players! : Ok, but why is it the player's fault that the spending is out of hand?  Stop signing bad deals.  Everyone and their mother complained when Joe Johnson got a max contract from ATL.  Why would ATL even consider a max deal for him.  He don't wanna sign for less?  Bye!  Same thing Ainge did with Antoine. And please, stop with the player quotes.  NBA players deserve every dime they can get.  They are the suppliers of revenue to the league.  Noone would pay to see David Kahn and the Maloofs play ball.  The fact is the players put themselves in a position to demand millions of dollars, just as rocks stars and actors do.  If someone wants to pay me a million plus to ride the pine, why wouldn't i take it?
    Posted by N2thaIzzo

    Lots of teaparty supporters here apparently. Viva Wall Street! Down with unions! The owners are for the most part,not" investors,"but spoiled rich guys playing with thei toys.  
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Red-16Russ-11. Show Red-16Russ-11's posts

    Re: I'm down with the players!

    In Response to Re: I'm down with the players!:
    In Response to Re: I'm down with the players! : Lots of teaparty supporters here apparently. Viva Wall Street! Down with unions! The owners are for the most part,not" investors,"but spoiled rich guys playing with thei toys.  
    Posted by jrleftfoot


    Given so many people are out of work, and it costs a weeks salary to take your family to a game, this is an irresponsible comment!
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from rpn123321. Show rpn123321's posts

    Re: I'm down with the players!

    It's funny how in this and in the NFL, the fans are the ones who are always getting taking advantage of, but there is never any mention in these talks as to how can we make it better for the fans. Ticket prices won't come down if the salary cap is set at 45 million. Ticket prices will always go up regardless of what happens, fans have no say in that matter. With that said I don't care how long the lockout goes, I'll enjoy seeing them both loose money bickering back and fourth.

    On a side note, I do think that a hard cap is a great idea, making every team competitive in the league, preventing any one team from building an all-star team. Either that, or they create some kind of Star rating system like they do with Prospects in High School. No team would be allowed more then 2 or 3 5 star players, unless they draft a player who develops into a 5 start athlete.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from CHEisCHE. Show CHEisCHE's posts

    Re: I'm down with the players!

    In Response to Re: I'm down with the players!:
    In Response to Re: I'm down with the players! : Lots of teaparty supporters here apparently. Viva Wall Street! Down with unions! The owners are for the most part,not" investors,"but spoiled rich guys playing with thei toys.  
    Posted by jrleftfoot


    it's not all about teab*ggers but it's all about jobs.
    i'm sure you'll be unemployed today if not for the rich-spoiled zhyte investor who gambled his wealth to build his empire. yes they have toys that you dont have but he gave you jobs so you and your family can afford to buy a chips.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Red-16Russ-11. Show Red-16Russ-11's posts

    Re: I'm down with the players!

    In Response to Re: I'm down with the players!:
    It's funny how in this and in the NFL, the fans are the ones who are always getting taking advantage of, but there is never any mention in these talks as to how can we make it better for the fans. Ticket prices won't come down if the salary cap is set at 45 million. Ticket prices will always go up regardless of what happens, fans have no say in that matter. With that said I don't care how long the lockout goes, I'll enjoy seeing them both loose money bickering back and fourth. On a side note, I do think that a hard cap is a great idea, making every team competitive in the league, preventing any one team from building an all-star team. Either that, or they create some kind of Star rating system like they do with Prospects in High School. No team would be allowed more then 2 or 3 5 star players, unless they draft a player who develops into a 5 start athlete.
    Posted by rpn123321


    I agree.  Overall, the problem is that kids lack the fundamentals to score, which is the most exciting part of the game.  Teams will not be able to take a flyer on projects like Bradley or Thabeet.  Those kids will have to stay in school another year....and get fundamentally better.  Every once in a while, there will  be a LeBron or kobe that, at 18, will be a superstar regardless.  But the JR Smiths, Rashard Lewis' and Kendrick Perkins' of the world will have to go to college to get better.  I think the league will be better with a softer cap, shorter contracts.  I can see a franchise tag, at least temporarily, to ease into a harder cap.  But, the league needs more creativity as a whole.  Same teams can't be good every year... even if it's the Celtics!!  Those days are over!
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from CaptChris. Show CaptChris's posts

    Re: I'm down with the players!

    There is no CBA.  It is starting all over.  Want a scary idea.

    How about, as a player, you don't get a contract if you can't do the job?  Can't shoot Fouls  --  you lose 10%.  Can't Rebound  --  ypu lose 10%.  Can't handle a ball  --  you lose 10%.  Bad hands (otherwise know as The Perkins Syndrome)  -- you lose 10%.  Get the idea.  Half of the players in the league would lose half their salaries.

    How many Centers in the NBA are worth their money.  As a group  --  they STINK!  Look at the stiffs making Millions who can't do the job.

    Let's get all the players rated fairly by unbiased experts.  Then rate them and pay them accoring to their skills.  Sure would be a lot of guys making Minimum Wage.

    Take out the STUPD deals of the past  --  Guranteed Contracts and other things.  Set a payscale that rewards skills.  Big bucks for Big Skills.  Crap for Crap.  A deal that would last for 50 years, so fans and players don't have to go through the Lockout Game, because a bunch of Millionaires are unhappy. 
     
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Duke4. Show Duke4's posts

    Re: I'm down with the players!

    I quoted two players to show their mentality......I also heard Derrick Fisher on Rome today....great guy, very intelligent, talked about the working people, layoffs, etc.....but in the end he said that he realizes that the players are millionaires and the general working public are not and can't really relate....then he went on to say something like....it's not the money it's the principle......give me a break.....of course if you are making a lot you want to keep doing so....but things change...I worked in banking and 5-10 years ago there were CD's that paid 5% and were fixed for 5 years....we had swarms of wealthy retirees coming in with their cash.....now a certificate for one year gets about .50%......those same retirees were pissed....but there was nothing anyone could do to change things as a result of the recession...thems the facts folks....death and taxes....nothing else is certain as a smart man was once quoted!
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from CHEisCHE. Show CHEisCHE's posts

    Re: I'm down with the players!

    Want a scary idea.

    How about, as a player, you don't get a contract if you can't do the job?  Can't shoot Fouls  --  you lose 10%.  Can't Rebound  --  ypu lose 10%.  Can't handle a ball  --  you lose 10%.  Bad hands (otherwise know as The Perkins Syndrome)  -- you lose 10%.  Get the idea.  Half of the players in the league would lose half their salaries.



    made my day with your idea...especially on that "manos de pierda" of PerkinsLaughingLaughingSurprisedWinkLaughing

     
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  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from TheDUDDER. Show TheDUDDER's posts

    Re: I'm down with the players!

    In Response to I'm down with the players!:
    I think the majority of the owners in the league suck at their jobs, that is why they are losing money.  The owners are just looking for an easy way out by requesting a bigger slice of the pie (although I do agree that the players getting 57% is a bit much), and trying to institute a hard cap.  The owners want more money....?  Increase the revenues!  Figure out how to draft, offer reasonable contracts, work the salary cap, blah, blah, blah and put a decent team on the court.  That is what gets fans to come and spend their money, and that is what will put more money in the owners hand.
    Posted by N2thaIzzo


    Exactly... it has to be the owners' fault - that is why night after night when I watch games most of the seats are empty.... maybe it is because the players - who would have a hard time finding work otherwise - are vastly overpaid compared to the demand supplied by the fans.

    That said, the owners need to try to figure out how to protect themselves from themselves.  None of the best teams in the league are under the existing cap.

    Just like every other business in the world, the owners are the ones that take the risk and the employees are just that... in sports however some of the employees are the product.  That in and of itself is a problem.  Ownership has always and will always will win out - why? because most of the employees can't read or write and would be lucky to be asking "do you want fries to go with that shake" otherwise......

    A hard cap with a gradual phase out of the gigantic contracts will ensure that the league can be sustained - then they need to figure out the revenue sharing (socialism).... what really needs to happen is contraction of the league in just about every sport.
     
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  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Celtsfan4life. Show Celtsfan4life's posts

    Re: I'm down with the players!

    More than any other business, the player makes the product.  Owners CANNOT get on the field.  Fans don't root for owners.  Commercials aren't done because owners do them.  Owners can't dunk nor run for a touchdown nor score a goal nor hit a homerun.   In the business of sports - the player is the vast majority of the product.  Yes, coaches make a difference.  Nice stadiums and bands and cheerleaders make a difference, but without the players - we the fans are all miserable.  

    So, the player SHOULD get the bulk of the revenue.  There's nothing wrong with them getting 57%  or 55% or anything in that range.   Owners are even MORE rich than the players.

    Also - not all players are rich.  We all see the Lebrons and Kobe and KG and Howard and Dirk.   We all forget that the other guys are doing well for just a few seasons.  Most of them make between $300k and $5M and they do it for 3 to 5 seasons and its over.  So, that's good money but its not filthy rich.  Compare that to the owners who make millions for years and years and years.

    I'm with the players.  They put a compromise offer and rather than talk/deal - the owners essentially said "give me everything or I'm taking my ball and going home".   

    Owners are greedy rich guys who take no accountability for their own BAD decisions on terrible contracts and lack of discipline in not over paying for medium talent.  They should look at their own GM's for why they don't make money!
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from painter. Show painter's posts

    Re: I'm down with the players!

    In Response to Re: I'm down with the players!:
    In Response to Re: I'm down with the players! : Lots of teaparty supporters here apparently. Viva Wall Street! Down with unions! The owners are for the most part,not" investors,"but spoiled rich guys playing with thei toys.  
    Posted by jrleftfoot


    ++++++!  
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from N2thaIzzo. Show N2thaIzzo's posts

    Re: I'm down with the players!

    In Response to Re: I'm down with the players!:
    In Response to I'm down with the players! : Exactly... it has to be the owners' fault - that is why night after night when I watch games most of the seats are empty.... maybe it is because the players - who would have a hard time finding work otherwise - are vastly overpaid compared to the demand supplied by the fans. That said, the owners need to try to figure out how to protect themselves from themselves.  None of the best teams in the league are under the existing cap. Just like every other business in the world, the owners are the ones that take the risk and the employees are just that... in sports however some of the employees are the product.  That in and of itself is a problem.  Ownership has always and will always will win out - why? because most of the employees can't read or write and would be lucky to be asking "do you want fries to go with that shake" otherwise...... A hard cap with a gradual phase out of the gigantic contracts will ensure that the league can be sustained - then they need to figure out the revenue sharing (socialism).... what really needs to happen is contraction of the league in just about every sport.
    Posted by TheDUDDER


    Go ahead and name me 10 players that meet that statement...

    Why is everyone so up in arms about making every team be able to compete?  Everywhere you go, there will be haves and have nots.  Only in the NFL can one team go from worst to first (consistantly), but that's an abnormality.  It's not like that in hockey, baseball, soccer, golf, tennis, or anything.  If a team gets good players, they will compete.  If not, they won't.  But not having good players does not mean overpay for mediocre ones.  Let some other team take those crappy players.  I would rather have a crappy team with a $60 million payroll, than one with an $82 million one.
     
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