INDICATOR

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from OneOnOne. Show OneOnOne's posts

    INDICATOR

    When Celtics gets 25 assists they are 21 and 0
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Icon11. Show Icon11's posts

    Re: INDICATOR

    In Response to INDICATOR:
    When Celtics gets 25 assists they are 21 and 0
    Posted by OneOnOne



    I bet they are also undefeated every time they win by 20.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from OneOnOne. Show OneOnOne's posts

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    In Response to Re: INDICATOR:
    In Response to INDICATOR : I bet they are also undefeated every time they win by 20.
    Posted by Icon11


    yes i believe that they are
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from OneOnOne. Show OneOnOne's posts

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    In Response to Re: INDICATOR:
    In Response to INDICATOR : Heh, I thought about that forum thread too when this stat was given during the game.
    Posted by NickFaldo


    I like that stat better than when a individual does something.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from BiasLewis. Show BiasLewis's posts

    Re: INDICATOR

    WHOA! WHOA!

    Don't steal my stat!! LOL! I've been telling P34 all season THAT is the stat to look for. 25+ assists and they are unbeatable. It means the ball is moving.

    How can I make money off this or patent the phrase like Pat RIley did.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from P34. Show P34's posts

    Re: INDICATOR

    In Response to Re: INDICATOR:
    WHOA! WHOA! Don't steal my stat!! LOL! I've been telling P34 all season THAT is the stat to look for. 25+ assists and they are unbeatable. It means the ball is moving. How can I make money off this or patent the phrase like Pat RIley did.
    Posted by BiasLewis


    I told you my indicator is for Celtic losses and not Celtic wins. Why are you so hardheaded?
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from BiasLewis. Show BiasLewis's posts

    Re: INDICATOR

    In Response to Re: INDICATOR:
    In Response to Re: INDICATOR : I told you my indicator is for Celtic losses and not Celtic wins. Why are you so hardheaded?
    Posted by P34


    Like someone said your stat is individual and this team isn't about individual stats.

    You take yours and I'll take mine and we'll see how far we get.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from P34. Show P34's posts

    Re: INDICATOR

    In Response to Re: INDICATOR:
    In Response to Re: INDICATOR : Like someone said your stat is individual and this team isn't about individual stats. You take yours and I'll take mine and we'll see how far we get.
    Posted by BiasLewis


    I have no problem with the if the Cs get 25 assists they're unbeaten. There are a lot of reasons why the Celtics win. Like what you said about the Celtics also unbeaten if Rondo gets 10 points and 15 assists in a game. 

    My indicator shows a pattern, every time Ray struggles the Celtics usually end up losing. Is that so hard to understand?
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from P34. Show P34's posts

    Re: INDICATOR

    In Response to Re: INDICATOR:
    In Response to Re: INDICATOR : Like someone said your stat is individual and this team isn't about individual stats. You take yours and I'll take mine and we'll see how far we get.
    Posted by BiasLewis


    Like the loss at DC, Ray shot 6-15 overall and 2-8 from 3pt land. Clearly Ray was struggling and the end result was a Celtic loss, right?
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Karllost. Show Karllost's posts

    Re: INDICATOR

    I dont buy the indicator theory.

    So many facets play into a game and indicators are  sometimes more a result than a cause.

    For example, statistically in the NFL, the team with the most rushing yards or fewest turnovers wins the game. Yet, it doesnt mean is you rush every play for yards or just hold onto the ball, you will win. It usually means the team that has the most rushing yards is cause they are winning the game and killing the clock while their opponent has abandoned the rush, passing more often to catch up.

    Same with turnovers usually.. The winning team usually has less turnovers cause the losing team is taking more risks to catch up, ie passing into coverage etc.

    So the stats are really a reflection of what already took place in the game and the position it forced the losing team to take.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from P34. Show P34's posts

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    In Response to Re: INDICATOR:
    I dont buy the indicator theory. So many facets play into a game and indicators are  sometimes more a result than a cause. For example, statistically in the NFL, the team with the most rushing yards or fewest turnovers wins the game. Yet, it doesnt mean is you rush every play for yards or just hold onto the ball, you will win. It usually means the team that has the most rushing yards is cause they are winning the game and killing the clock while their opponent has abandoned the rush, passing more often to catch up. Same with turnovers usually.. The winning team usually has less turnovers cause the losing team is taking more risks to catch up, ie passing into coverage etc. So the stats are really a reflection of what already took place in the game and the position it forced the losing team to take.
    Posted by Karllost


    Can't compare the NFL and the NBA, the two have nothing in common.
     
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    In Response to Re: INDICATOR:
    In Response to Re: INDICATOR : Can't compare the NFL and the NBA, the two have nothing in common.
    Posted by P34


    I disagree, the analogy applies imo.

    If the Celtics went out determined to have 25 assists no matter what, foregoing defense, turnovers, FT shooting etc... it wouldnt guarantee a win.

    Many times assists are created by playing good defense, getting on a break from it and having either a good look or layup. Point being, assists for assists sake doesnt equal victory.  Its many time a by-product of the rest of the game and how the team plays.

    Fits in perfectly with the NFL analogy imo
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from BiasLewis. Show BiasLewis's posts

    Re: INDICATOR

    Karllost, it's true but again that 25+ assist stat is a SIGNIFICANT stat unlike other stats.

    It's a stat that says not just one player is moving the ball. It's not like Rondo is getting 25 assist himself. This stat says everyone is moving the ball and scoring.

    It's like a stat of a team holding another team under 80 points or a team getting 45+ rebounds a game. Those are TEAM stats, not individual stats. If you win the points, rebounds or assists totals for a game those are the 3 stats that glaring. You could have 20 turnovers and still win. However if you don't rebound or have many assists it's going to be hard to win. Basketball is about scoring, golf is about keeping a low score. If you have 5 birdies in a 18 hole round I would bet you're leading the course by a wide margin. Assists mean you're scoring.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from BiasLewis. Show BiasLewis's posts

    Re: INDICATOR

    In Response to Re: INDICATOR:
    In Response to Re: INDICATOR : I disagree, the analogy applies imo. If the Celtics went out determined to have 25 assists no matter what, foregoing defense, turnovers, FT shooting etc... it wouldnt guarantee a win. Many times assists are created by playing good defense, getting on a break from it and having either a good look or layup. Point being, assists for assists sake doesnt equal victory.  Its many time a by-product of the rest of the game and how the team plays. Fits in perfectly with the NFL analogy imo
    Posted by Karllost


    For THIS team those assists are crucial. We know we aren't going to see a Celtic game where the score is 125-120. So assists combined with the way they play defense makes that assist number HUGE.

    If it's another team like the Lakers where scoring may not be a big issue. Their big stat may be holding a team to 85 points because they know they can get out the bed and score 110 points.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from P34. Show P34's posts

    Re: INDICATOR

    In Response to Re: INDICATOR:
    In Response to Re: INDICATOR : I disagree, the analogy applies imo. If the Celtics went out determined to have 25 assists no matter what, foregoing defense, turnovers, FT shooting etc... it wouldnt guarantee a win. Many times assists are created by playing good defense, getting on a break from it and having either a good look or layup. Point being, assists for assists sake doesnt equal victory.  Its many time a by-product of the rest of the game and how the team plays. Fits in perfectly with the NFL analogy imo
    Posted by Karllost


    I'm not into the 25 assists as the indicator theory. My indicator is for Celtic losses. Every time the Celtics lose you will see in the box score that Ray didn't get 20 points.  
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from P34. Show P34's posts

    Re: INDICATOR

    In Response to Re: INDICATOR:
    In Response to Re: INDICATOR : I disagree, the analogy applies imo. If the Celtics went out determined to have 25 assists no matter what, foregoing defense, turnovers, FT shooting etc... it wouldnt guarantee a win. Many times assists are created by playing good defense, getting on a break from it and having either a good look or layup. Point being, assists for assists sake doesnt equal victory.  Its many time a by-product of the rest of the game and how the team plays. Fits in perfectly with the NFL analogy imo
    Posted by Karllost


    The stats of the NFL and the NBA are very different. In the NBA one made shot results in 2 points or 3 points, in the NFL you rarely see 1 rushing attempt result in a Touchdown. 
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from BiasLewis. Show BiasLewis's posts

    Re: INDICATOR

    In Response to Re: INDICATOR:
    In Response to Re: INDICATOR : I'm not into the 25 assists as the indicator theory. My indicator is for Celtic losses. Every time the Celtics lose you will see in the box score that Ray didn't get 20 points.  
    Posted by P34


    I just cannot buy into that thinking on this team. This team is the farthest away from individual stats. I will keep an eye on that stat but I just don't see it lasting very long.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from P34. Show P34's posts

    Re: INDICATOR

    In Response to Re: INDICATOR:
    In Response to Re: INDICATOR : I just cannot buy into that thinking on this team. This team is the farthest away from individual stats. I will keep an eye on that stat but I just don't see it lasting very long.
    Posted by BiasLewis


    I agree. Sooner or later the Celtics will lose a game even when Ray scores 20 points. But until now it still hasn't happened and the Celtics have already played 44 games.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from BiasLewis. Show BiasLewis's posts

    Re: INDICATOR

    Here is another stat based on rebounding.

    From CNNSI:

    Occasionally you'll hear an announcer or commentator declare that the Celtics are last or near the bottom of the NBA in rebounding. And yes, they grab just 38.2 per game, fewest in the league. But that number is extremely deceptive. The Celtics play deliberately (they are 21st in place), making for fewer possessions, fewer shots and fewer rebounds overall. They also don't contest on the offensive glass nearly as much as other teams, partly because they are far and away the most accurate shooting team in the NBA and thus know they have fewer potential misses to grab, and partly because they'll forfeit the chance at some put-backs in order to get back and set their half-court defense. But in terms of defensive rebounding percentage, Boston is tied for 10th. Put simply, the Celtics are smart about when and how they rebound. That's why, on the numbers that matter -- points scored per 100 possessions and points allowed per 100 possessions -- they are 10th on offense and second on defense. 

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from BiasLewis. Show BiasLewis's posts

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    Great input and analysis!! We can't get any more indepth that that. Brilliant!! :-(
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Karllost. Show Karllost's posts

    Re: INDICATOR

    I bet we can find a stat like when KG plays less than 21 minutes, the Celtics always win. Therefore, Doc should never allow KG to play more than 21 minutes.

    Sorry, dont buy into indicators. They are good to look at post game but not a strategy or indicator. They are a function of many other facets of the game that creates those stats, not the stat itself standing alone as an indicator
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from BiasLewis. Show BiasLewis's posts

    Re: INDICATOR

    I think you'll are undervaluing the stat of more than 25+ assists per game for this team usually leads to victories. Doc has always said that when the ball moves and the team is getting assists it's a easy job for him. I bet any amount of money Doc pushes and preaches getting assists and moving the ball. He knows that if the ball is moving it's wearing down a defense and it's demoralizing, then in turn they don't have the energy on offense to execute, which creates more turnovers and more easy baskets.

    I know we all like to make it more complicated than it is but it's just basketball and some things are just fundamental.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from jeezem. Show jeezem's posts

    Re: INDICATOR

    It's good to look at trends - it gives an idea of how valueable ball movement is and playing your game and controlling pace.  Watching games it seems to me their ball movement is fast and effective while other times it seems like they over pass, but that's the style of play they seem to be winning with so - even though it looks like too much passing at times, it forces the other team to think alot about defense and use nrg to play defense, and that takes the opponent off their game.  Just like they never seem to crash 3 guys to the offensive board, that's not their style.  They wear down the other teams defense with ball movement and shoot a high percentage, so the odds are getting back and playing tough defense is the best percentage.  Seems to be working for them.  I think Tom and Mike talked about this stat during the last game.  It will be interesting to see over the rest of the season how Perkins changes the team rebounding numbers.  Personally, I like the statistics, if you win every time you score more than 30 points in the paint, not that they do, just as an example, then calling plays and having a strategy to play your game and score points in the paint makes sense.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from BiasLewis. Show BiasLewis's posts

    Re: INDICATOR

    Well true BUT an assist is only counted when a basket is made.

    I guess we can all look at different things but that's what I hang my hat on as I'm watching a game.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from maryngary. Show maryngary's posts

    Re: INDICATOR

    Good stat, but when the shots are not falling, the guys start to try to do it one on one and save the day, sometimes they do but most of the time they fail.  Paul use to do this at the end of most games and I would much rather see the ball move and someone get a good shot.  Not that that guarantees a win, but I can live with losing on a good shot as compared to losing on a forced shot by a star.
     
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