Is Antoine Walker a Celtic Great?

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    Re: Is Antoine Walker a Celtic Great?

    In Response to Re: Is Antoine Walker a Celtic Great?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Is Antoine Walker a Celtic Great? :
    Posted by rameakap[/QUOTE]

    Rameakap, let me be clear.  I did NOT say that Championships aren't important.  In fact, they are VERY important.   I agree with your movements based on Championships.  The statement I challenge is that not championships automatically moves youto the bottom of the list.  So, Antoine goes to the bottom of the list because he had no championships, implying that any player with a championship is above those without?  That just doesn't make sense.

    That's the issue!!


     
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    Re: Is Antoine Walker a Celtic Great?

    In Response to Re: Is Antoine Walker a Celtic Great?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Is Antoine Walker a Celtic Great? : Rameakap, let me be clear.  I did NOT say that Championships aren't important.  In fact, they are VERY important.   I agree with your movements based on Championships.  The statement I challenge is that not championships automatically moves youto the bottom of the list.  So, Antoine goes to the bottom of the list because he had no championships, implying that any player with a championship is above those without?  That just doesn't make sense. That's the issue!!
    Posted by Celtsfan4life[/QUOTE]

    Oh I get your point. The bottom of what list tho is the question. A top 25 list? It is not a smack in the face to Antoine to be named the 18th or even 23rd best Celtic all time.

    It is atrocious and wrong for anyone to claim 'Toine is better than Pierce. You'd have to struggle REAL hard to place Paul outside the top 10 ever. Regardless of what Barkley rolled his eyes at. The majority of Celtic HOFers have come out and said Pierce is one of the greatest ever, but I won't waste my time finding each quote for an ignorant contrarian like ky.

    Antoine should be proud that in just over 7 seasons here he'd be ahead of several guys who have a handful of rings including the guy w/ two who traded him away in '03 when he (rightfully) knew losing 'toine was addition by subtraction. He had just finished a year taking 21 shots, 7.5 from behind the arc as a PF while connecting on 39% and 34% of them. Yuck. He was also a 61% FT shooter.

    He's being given EXACTLY the credit he deserves for being a terrible shooting underachieving 20-8-4 guy on 5 terrible teams 2 decent ones and 1 good one here. Slipping him into the top 20 over Macauley, Reggie and right behind Max is a compliment.
     
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    Re: Is Antoine Walker a Celtic Great?

    I don't disagree with most of what you say.  We could quibble over some language like underachieving but in general, somewhere between 15 and 25 is a good place.   I don't argue above Pierce - that is someone else's argument.  I just don't place him at the bottom of the list of most Celtics.   

    In any case, isn't it amazing how long this thread goes on and how much emotion Antoine can generate?   Controversial figure.   Many either love him or hate him! 

    Now, I will say that if we are ranking our "favorite Celtics" instead of all time Great Celtics, Antoine moves up because I loved the guy.  Drove me crazy with the 3's but other than that, I loved so much about his fire and desire and passing and ball handling during his early years.  I live in the DC area and I saw him play the Wizards in his 2nd year and he torched them for something like 42 points and just carried the Celts to victory.   So, he's a top 15 favorite - which is different than all time great celtics.

    I think the "favorite Celtics" is a less controversial and more fun post because rather than arguing, people can just support their favorites, even if he was a bench player!
     
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    Re: Is Antoine Walker a Celtic Great?

    Antoine Walker won a championship with the Heat in 2006. It was also in Miami that he had his best season shooting the ball, 43.5% FG. Just because he started his career with the Celtics it doesn't mean he's a "Celtic Great". The guy played for several teams, Dallas, Atlanta, Miami, and Minnesota. It would not surprise me if there are Heat fans that would claim that Antoine Walker is a "Heat Great". 
     
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    Re: Is Antoine Walker a Celtic Great?

    Interesting opinions.

    Then most important Celtics are the ones that made the biggest difference to the team, the ones that were most instrumental in the team achieving its championships. No individual wins without the team, however every era had one individual that led the team in the right direction and did what was necessary for the team to win.  Length of time on the team deserves a service pin and appreciation for time served, however it has little to do with achieving championships and winning.

    Sixties - Russell

    Russell's defensive leadership and team play is the foundation for the championships of the sixties.

    Seventies - Cowens

    A true Celtic that played team ball with passion

    Eighties -Bird

    A true team player with legendary skills, abilities, and clutch play. 

    now -KG

    He changed the Celtic team culture when he arrived. His leadership focused the team on defense, and selfless offense. He  inspired the other stars to fall in line.


    There have been many great Celtic players that have contributed to championships, but only a handful that changed the way the team played and were instrumental in delivering championships.

     
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    Re: Is Antoine Walker a Celtic Great?

    In Response to Re: Is Antoine Walker a Celtic Great?:
    [QUOTE]Antoine Walker won a championship with the Heat in 2006. It was also in Miami that he had his best season shooting the ball, 43.5% FG. Just because he started his career with the Celtics it doesn't mean he's a "Celtic Great". The guy played for several teams, Dallas, Atlanta, Miami, and Minnesota. It would not surprise me if there are Heat fans that would claim that Antoine Walker is a "Heat Great". 
    Posted by BigBaby11[/QUOTE]

    Have you SEEN his numbers from his second Heat season ? Not only would it surprise me to hear a Heat fan call him great, it would shock me if people even wanted to mention his name.    39.7% FG, 27.5% 3PT, 44% Free Throws,   ?  His 'win shares' according to basketball-reference was <0 meaning he actually hurt the team.
     
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    Re: Is Antoine Walker a Celtic Great?

    In Response to Re: Is Antoine Walker a Celtic Great?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Is Antoine Walker a Celtic Great? : Have you SEEN his numbers from his second Heat season ? Not only would it surprise me to hear a Heat fan call him great, it would shock me if people even wanted to mention his name.    39.7% FG, 27.5% 3PT, 44% Free Throws,   ?  His 'win shares' according to basketball-reference was <0 meaning he actually hurt the team.
    Posted by Stupideeediot[/QUOTE]

    That's why it's shocking to know that there is a Celtic fan that actually believes that Antoine Walker is better than Paul Pierce.
     
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    Re: Is Antoine Walker a Celtic Great?

    A STIFF! 
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Celtsfan4life. Show Celtsfan4life's posts

    Re: Is Antoine Walker a Celtic Great?

    In Response to Re: Is Antoine Walker a Celtic Great?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Is Antoine Walker a Celtic Great? : Have you SEEN his numbers from his second Heat season ? Not only would it surprise me to hear a Heat fan call him great, it would shock me if people even wanted to mention his name.    39.7% FG, 27.5% 3PT, 44% Free Throws,   ?  His 'win shares' according to basketball-reference was <0 meaning he actually hurt the team.
    Posted by Stupideeediot[/QUOTE]


    Ask Heat fans and coached if he helped or hurt when they won the championship.  The stats say that at 37.5 minutes per game in the playoffs, he played the second most minutes (next to wade) so the coaches must have wanted him in the game (and he played all 23 playoff games; he scored 13.5 ppg - second to Wade and then Shaq (18); 3rd in assists per game, 3rd in rebounds per game; His 3 point field goal % was abysmal at .324 but he cut back on them and didn't take as many.  So, while he's not "GREAT", he more than helped his team win the championship.   

    Get your facts straight.  We can't call him great, but you can't say he hurt his team.  He was important to their championship run.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from cpjohn1. Show cpjohn1's posts

    Re: Is Antoine Walker a Celtic Great?

    In Response to Re: Is Antoine Walker a Celtic Great?:
    [QUOTE]Antoine Walker won a championship with the Heat in 2006. It was also in Miami that he had his best season shooting the ball, 43.5% FG. Just because he started his career with the Celtics it doesn't mean he's a "Celtic Great". The guy played for several teams, Dallas, Atlanta, Miami, and Minnesota. It would not surprise me if there are Heat fans that would claim that Antoine Walker is a "Heat Great". 
    Posted by BigBaby11[/QUOTE]

    It would surprise me. Most Heat fans hated Antoine Walker.  I used to follow Antoine when he was with the Heat and I used to read the Heat board.  They couldn't wait until Antoine left, even after he helped them win a championship.  Posey was the guy they were upset about losing.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from BigBaby11. Show BigBaby11's posts

    Re: Is Antoine Walker a Celtic Great?

    In Response to Re: Is Antoine Walker a Celtic Great?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Is Antoine Walker a Celtic Great? : It would surprise me. Most Heat fans hated Antoine Walker.  I used to follow Antoine when he was with the Heat and I used to read the Heat board.  They couldn't wait until Antoine left, even after he helped them win a championship.  Posey was the guy they were upset about losing.
    Posted by cpjohn1[/QUOTE]

    Very interesting, thanks for sharing that information to us. 

    How sad, the Heat fans don't want Antoine Walker even when he helped the Heat win a championship. And to think that a Celtic fan could love Antoine Walker so much when Walker didn't even win a championship in Boston. 
     
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