Is Antoine Walker a Celtic Great?

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    Re: Is Antoine Walker a Celtic Great?

    In Response to Re: Is Antoine Walker a Celtic Great?:
    In Response to Re: Is Antoine Walker a Celtic Great? : Barkley helped you make your point?  Grabbing for anything huh?  Barkley has been wrong ten times more than he is right.  Barkley picks anyone against the C's.  Spurs are 3rd best team in league.  yep you picked a winner with Charles.
    Posted by OneOnOne


     Tell him that!
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Celtsfan4life. Show Celtsfan4life's posts

    Re: Is Antoine Walker a Celtic Great?

    In Response to Re: Is Antoine Walker a Celtic Great?:
     Russ, Bird, Hondo,Cousy, Cowens, Mchale,Sam,TommyH, Parish,KG.    pierce is in the next group, with Ray, DJ, Jo Jo, and Antoine. All with at least the times as many rings as Pierce, if you want to say Pierce is better then KG, be my guest
    Posted by kyceltic



    KG can't be ahead of Pierce because he's not been here for most of his career.  Pierce has done more for the Celtics.  While we all know KG throughout his career is a better and more accomplished player, he didn't do it with the Celts.  So, in my opinion, Pierce is ahead of KG on the Celtics Greats list.   With Pauls career stats in games played and points scored, he would go to number 4 or 5 if these current Celtics win one or two more championships. 
     
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    Any list involving celtics greats must start with every player that has atleast won a championship.  NO RING you go at the bottom.  So Toine is after Don Nelson and others from the 60s, 70s, and 80s. 
    Posted by jdm894g



    While I agree no one can argue Antoine cannot be placed above PP in all time Celtic greats, I don't agree with your "no ring" statement.  Substitute players and bench players got a ring or two and didn't do a think.  That doesn't make them a "Celtic great".  Likewise, if you did a lot but played with a bunch of guys who couldn't get a ring, then you DON'T go to the bottom of the list.

    So I ask, if PP did not win a championship in 2008, he would be below bench players on a championship team?????

    There are many factors and I agree that Championships is very high on the list, but I don't agree that its the main and only determinant because you'd be saying Greg Kite, Carlos Clark, ML Carr, Henry Finkel, Art Williams, etc. are all greater Celtics than Antoine or PP because they rode the pine on championship teams.
     
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    Re: Is Antoine Walker a Celtic Great?

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    In Response to Re: Is Antoine Walker a Celtic Great? :  Thanks alot!  I know 2,3, and 6 are 11.  I come from a large family, I own my own business, my sister is a Dentist, my brother owns a construction company.   The other two are school teachers, when they tell us their not as successful as we are, we tell them, that's okay you're in a honorable profession. Keep up the good work!
    Posted by kyceltic


    Ask those two school teachers to help you with your grammar.
     
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    In Response to Re: Is Antoine Walker a Celtic Great? :
    Posted by rameakap


    Rameakap, let me be clear.  I did NOT say that Championships aren't important.  In fact, they are VERY important.   I agree with your movements based on Championships.  The statement I challenge is that not championships automatically moves youto the bottom of the list.  So, Antoine goes to the bottom of the list because he had no championships, implying that any player with a championship is above those without?  That just doesn't make sense.

    That's the issue!!


     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Celtsfan4life. Show Celtsfan4life's posts

    Re: Is Antoine Walker a Celtic Great?

    I don't disagree with most of what you say.  We could quibble over some language like underachieving but in general, somewhere between 15 and 25 is a good place.   I don't argue above Pierce - that is someone else's argument.  I just don't place him at the bottom of the list of most Celtics.   

    In any case, isn't it amazing how long this thread goes on and how much emotion Antoine can generate?   Controversial figure.   Many either love him or hate him! 

    Now, I will say that if we are ranking our "favorite Celtics" instead of all time Great Celtics, Antoine moves up because I loved the guy.  Drove me crazy with the 3's but other than that, I loved so much about his fire and desire and passing and ball handling during his early years.  I live in the DC area and I saw him play the Wizards in his 2nd year and he torched them for something like 42 points and just carried the Celts to victory.   So, he's a top 15 favorite - which is different than all time great celtics.

    I think the "favorite Celtics" is a less controversial and more fun post because rather than arguing, people can just support their favorites, even if he was a bench player!
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from BigBaby11. Show BigBaby11's posts

    Re: Is Antoine Walker a Celtic Great?

    Antoine Walker won a championship with the Heat in 2006. It was also in Miami that he had his best season shooting the ball, 43.5% FG. Just because he started his career with the Celtics it doesn't mean he's a "Celtic Great". The guy played for several teams, Dallas, Atlanta, Miami, and Minnesota. It would not surprise me if there are Heat fans that would claim that Antoine Walker is a "Heat Great". 
     
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    Re: Is Antoine Walker a Celtic Great?

    Interesting opinions.

    Then most important Celtics are the ones that made the biggest difference to the team, the ones that were most instrumental in the team achieving its championships. No individual wins without the team, however every era had one individual that led the team in the right direction and did what was necessary for the team to win.  Length of time on the team deserves a service pin and appreciation for time served, however it has little to do with achieving championships and winning.

    Sixties - Russell

    Russell's defensive leadership and team play is the foundation for the championships of the sixties.

    Seventies - Cowens

    A true Celtic that played team ball with passion

    Eighties -Bird

    A true team player with legendary skills, abilities, and clutch play. 

    now -KG

    He changed the Celtic team culture when he arrived. His leadership focused the team on defense, and selfless offense. He  inspired the other stars to fall in line.


    There have been many great Celtic players that have contributed to championships, but only a handful that changed the way the team played and were instrumental in delivering championships.

     
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    Re: Is Antoine Walker a Celtic Great?

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    Antoine Walker won a championship with the Heat in 2006. It was also in Miami that he had his best season shooting the ball, 43.5% FG. Just because he started his career with the Celtics it doesn't mean he's a "Celtic Great". The guy played for several teams, Dallas, Atlanta, Miami, and Minnesota. It would not surprise me if there are Heat fans that would claim that Antoine Walker is a "Heat Great". 
    Posted by BigBaby11


    Have you SEEN his numbers from his second Heat season ? Not only would it surprise me to hear a Heat fan call him great, it would shock me if people even wanted to mention his name.    39.7% FG, 27.5% 3PT, 44% Free Throws,   ?  His 'win shares' according to basketball-reference was <0 meaning he actually hurt the team.
     
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    Re: Is Antoine Walker a Celtic Great?

    In Response to Re: Is Antoine Walker a Celtic Great?:
    In Response to Re: Is Antoine Walker a Celtic Great? : Have you SEEN his numbers from his second Heat season ? Not only would it surprise me to hear a Heat fan call him great, it would shock me if people even wanted to mention his name.    39.7% FG, 27.5% 3PT, 44% Free Throws,   ?  His 'win shares' according to basketball-reference was <0 meaning he actually hurt the team.
    Posted by Stupideeediot


    That's why it's shocking to know that there is a Celtic fan that actually believes that Antoine Walker is better than Paul Pierce.
     
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    Re: Is Antoine Walker a Celtic Great?

    A STIFF! 
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Celtsfan4life. Show Celtsfan4life's posts

    Re: Is Antoine Walker a Celtic Great?

    In Response to Re: Is Antoine Walker a Celtic Great?:
    In Response to Re: Is Antoine Walker a Celtic Great? : Have you SEEN his numbers from his second Heat season ? Not only would it surprise me to hear a Heat fan call him great, it would shock me if people even wanted to mention his name.    39.7% FG, 27.5% 3PT, 44% Free Throws,   ?  His 'win shares' according to basketball-reference was <0 meaning he actually hurt the team.
    Posted by Stupideeediot



    Ask Heat fans and coached if he helped or hurt when they won the championship.  The stats say that at 37.5 minutes per game in the playoffs, he played the second most minutes (next to wade) so the coaches must have wanted him in the game (and he played all 23 playoff games; he scored 13.5 ppg - second to Wade and then Shaq (18); 3rd in assists per game, 3rd in rebounds per game; His 3 point field goal % was abysmal at .324 but he cut back on them and didn't take as many.  So, while he's not "GREAT", he more than helped his team win the championship.   

    Get your facts straight.  We can't call him great, but you can't say he hurt his team.  He was important to their championship run.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from cpjohn1. Show cpjohn1's posts

    Re: Is Antoine Walker a Celtic Great?

    In Response to Re: Is Antoine Walker a Celtic Great?:
    Antoine Walker won a championship with the Heat in 2006. It was also in Miami that he had his best season shooting the ball, 43.5% FG. Just because he started his career with the Celtics it doesn't mean he's a "Celtic Great". The guy played for several teams, Dallas, Atlanta, Miami, and Minnesota. It would not surprise me if there are Heat fans that would claim that Antoine Walker is a "Heat Great". 
    Posted by BigBaby11


    It would surprise me. Most Heat fans hated Antoine Walker.  I used to follow Antoine when he was with the Heat and I used to read the Heat board.  They couldn't wait until Antoine left, even after he helped them win a championship.  Posey was the guy they were upset about losing.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from BigBaby11. Show BigBaby11's posts

    Re: Is Antoine Walker a Celtic Great?

    In Response to Re: Is Antoine Walker a Celtic Great?:
    In Response to Re: Is Antoine Walker a Celtic Great? : It would surprise me. Most Heat fans hated Antoine Walker.  I used to follow Antoine when he was with the Heat and I used to read the Heat board.  They couldn't wait until Antoine left, even after he helped them win a championship.  Posey was the guy they were upset about losing.
    Posted by cpjohn1


    Very interesting, thanks for sharing that information to us. 

    How sad, the Heat fans don't want Antoine Walker even when he helped the Heat win a championship. And to think that a Celtic fan could love Antoine Walker so much when Walker didn't even win a championship in Boston. 
     
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