Its Settled..

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from JG9000. Show JG9000's posts

    Re: Its Settled..

    In response to KG-LB-KM's comment:

    I like the team that the Celtics have.

    With the new CBA, times are changing. It could break up super teams and prevent future ones from forming, making the NBA a much more competitive place.  With defense, we should always be competitve because it is effort based. Offense is the  variable.

    I don't know that any of the guys mentioned as stars are copies, they all have or had their own game. Furthermore, the game has changed over the years, rules have changed, racism has been relatively minimized, the style of play tends to change over time, and even teams play by different rules. While I am sure that all of the people mentioned would have been stars in any age, It is unclear that their impact would be the same, especially on a team like the current Charlotte team. 




    trade Rondo for a big this summer. scorer, rebounder, shotblocker, defensive beast.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Celtsfan4life. Show Celtsfan4life's posts

    Re: Its Settled..

    In response to JG9000's comment:

    In response to KG-LB-KM's comment:

     

    I like the team that the Celtics have.

    With the new CBA, times are changing. It could break up super teams and prevent future ones from forming, making the NBA a much more competitive place.  With defense, we should always be competitve because it is effort based. Offense is the  variable.

    I don't know that any of the guys mentioned as stars are copies, they all have or had their own game. Furthermore, the game has changed over the years, rules have changed, racism has been relatively minimized, the style of play tends to change over time, and even teams play by different rules. While I am sure that all of the people mentioned would have been stars in any age, It is unclear that their impact would be the same, especially on a team like the current Charlotte team. 

     




    trade Rondo for a big this summer. scorer, rebounder, shotblocker, defensive beast.

     



    Generally a post that I agree with.  but, I don't agree that defense is all effort based.  Some teams have good defense because they have the right defensive coordination scheme.  Its no accident that Doc, Thibbs, and the old Pop teams all played better D than everyone else. It wasn't just effort - they used a scheme that slows the other team down (from how they show on pick and rolls to getting back and doing less offensive rebounding to how tight they play in your face, and to when to switch and have the man backup up rotate at the same time).   

    There's a lot more going on our there than just "effort".  Just look at how long it takes new players to learn Doc's system.   That's training in addition to effort.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from KG-LB-KM. Show KG-LB-KM's posts

    Re: Its Settled..

    In response to Celtsfan4life's comment:

    In response to JG9000's comment:

     

    In response to KG-LB-KM's comment:

     

    I like the team that the Celtics have.

    With the new CBA, times are changing. It could break up super teams and prevent future ones from forming, making the NBA a much more competitive place.  With defense, we should always be competitve because it is effort based. Offense is the  variable.

    I don't know that any of the guys mentioned as stars are copies, they all have or had their own game. Furthermore, the game has changed over the years, rules have changed, racism has been relatively minimized, the style of play tends to change over time, and even teams play by different rules. While I am sure that all of the people mentioned would have been stars in any age, It is unclear that their impact would be the same, especially on a team like the current Charlotte team. 

     




    trade Rondo for a big this summer. scorer, rebounder, shotblocker, defensive beast.

     

     



    Generally a post that I agree with.  but, I don't agree that defense is all effort based.  Some teams have good defense because they have the right defensive coordination scheme.  Its no accident that Doc, Thibbs, and the old Pop teams all played better D than everyone else. It wasn't just effort - they used a scheme that slows the other team down (from how they show on pick and rolls to getting back and doing less offensive rebounding to how tight they play in your face, and to when to switch and have the man backup up rotate at the same time).   

     

    There's a lot more going on our there than just "effort".  Just look at how long it takes new players to learn Doc's system.   That's training in addition to effort.



    Your right. Leadership and coaching and management are important.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from celticsince1958. Show celticsince1958's posts

    Re: Its Settled..

    In response to Ortiz123's comment:

    Rondo gets us one of the Bigs we need....



    We can only hope and pray that happens

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Ortiz123. Show Ortiz123's posts

    Re: Its Settled..

    In response to Rajon-Hondo's comment:

    Avery Bradley is a very good player that has had some horrible luck his first few years,but his bad luck seems to be behind him now. Next season is when we will finally see how good AB can be. Remember he has had 4 major surgeries over the last couple of seasons,the strike season he had 2 ankle injuries and this offseason he had 2 shoulder surgeries. This offseason he will be able to actually prepare for the season,get in a whole camp and tune up in preseason. I believe we will see an even better AB that will be ready to take a spot as one of the premier Guards in the league.

    Green might be a starter and core player before this season ends. I've always been a fan of Green and I think the sky is the limit with Jeff,he has the skills to carry a team offensively and defensively.

    Sully,no way of telling yet. He was showing great potential and displayed an amazing bball IQ again on both ends. If his surgery is a complete success he will be a solid contributor.

    Another player I am intrigued by is Terrence Williams, I think he has the potential to be a Micheal Cooper like player for us. Coop had the length to play a 2 or a 3 and the quickness to guard a 1 and can play some point too. He develops a set 3 pt spot and he could be an excellent pich up for us.

    I know a lot of people are down on Rondo but he is very much a core player going forward. I also think his injury may have been a blessing in disguise, when he comes back after watching this team have some success without him will give the motivation to come back stronger and the having to come back and take his spot will give the motivation he seemed to lack this season.

    Lee is another player who will have an expanded role going forward. Lee is a guy I was down on because I felt he wasn't playing his game he was trying to be allen. Now that he is being Courtney Lee, I can see why DA signed him for 5 years he brings a lot of intangibles and energy to the game. I don't know if these group of players will be the best in the NBA but I don't see us seeing lottery anytime soon unless via trade.




    Nice job.Hondo..I like it..I have very similar views..

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Ortiz123. Show Ortiz123's posts

    Re: Its Settled..

    In response to Celtsfan4life's comment:

    In response to JG9000's comment:

     

    In response to KG-LB-KM's comment:

     

    I like the team that the Celtics have.

    With the new CBA, times are changing. It could break up super teams and prevent future ones from forming, making the NBA a much more competitive place.  With defense, we should always be competitve because it is effort based. Offense is the  variable.

    I don't know that any of the guys mentioned as stars are copies, they all have or had their own game. Furthermore, the game has changed over the years, rules have changed, racism has been relatively minimized, the style of play tends to change over time, and even teams play by different rules. While I am sure that all of the people mentioned would have been stars in any age, It is unclear that their impact would be the same, especially on a team like the current Charlotte team. 

     




    trade Rondo for a big this summer. scorer, rebounder, shotblocker, defensive beast.

     

     



    Generally a post that I agree with.  but, I don't agree that defense is all effort based.  Some teams have good defense because they have the right defensive coordination scheme.  Its no accident that Doc, Thibbs, and the old Pop teams all played better D than everyone else. It wasn't just effort - they used a scheme that slows the other team down (from how they show on pick and rolls to getting back and doing less offensive rebounding to how tight they play in your face, and to when to switch and have the man backup up rotate at the same time).   

     

    There's a lot more going on our there than just "effort".  Just look at how long it takes new players to learn Doc's system.   That's training in addition to effort.




    Agreed..but the players do have to put in the effort, otherwise the system breaks down..

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Ortiz123. Show Ortiz123's posts

    Re: Its Settled..

    I really like Lee's ability to dribble drive, stop and take the J...

    That is not an easy shot for many players...

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Re: Its Settled..

    In response to Ortiz123's comment:

    In response to rameakap's comment:

     

    In response to snakeoil123's comment:

     

    All three of those guys are good complimentary players. Not guys that anyone would want to build a team around.

     



    They are somewhere in the middle

     

    Borderline all-stars, any of who could be a 3rd best player on a contender - yes

    Superstar - no

    Solid multiple appearance all-star that can be Robin to a superstars Batman - no

    Your 3rd and 4th best players are not 'complimentary' players, thats reserved for your worst starter and best bench guys... but when you talk about a new 'core' those 3 are all def part of it

     




    Question...AT what point did PP become a star player to build around???

     

     



    Pierce would be the 2nd player selected if the 1998 draft were re-done, as it was he went 10th, he became a player to build around either the moment he was drafted or during his rookie season once everyone saw how good he would be (basically week one).

    Green was a lotto pick who was played out of position at OKC, but was def part of their young core and was one of their 3 best players all his seasons there until the one he was traded during. He had the heart condition and is only now getting over it, at pick #5 he likely was hoped to be a Robin to someones Batman, and he still can become that, but best case seems to be a 16-19ppg scorer, 3rd best player.

    Bradley was 19 when drafted and had ankle and shoulder issues, only showing his stuff for 2 months last season and 6 weeks this season. Had he stayed in school another year he would have been a top 10 pick. Sky may still be the limit, but superstar is unlikely... he could easily be a 16-19ppg 2nd best player as well though.

    It was opposite for Sully, he would have been a top 5 pick in the '11 draft, flashed briliance right away (Avery took over a year) but now has the back issues that should make him return better than ever and in better shape... but it still keeps him questionable. But he is also 20-21 like Avery, I'd expect him to be a 15/9 player, a 3rd-4th best starter as well.

    Any or all of those guys could emerge as a #2 on a contender... worst case is they all remain #3-#4 guys if healthy. But its not a bad spot to have. Rondo is clearly that #2 perennial all-star type player, making our young core DEEP on starting quality talent. The C's 'just' need a superstar. We could trade RR for another #2 type or a #3 if Green/Avery seem up to the task of being a 2 (need a big to replace KG, thats why you might tarde him) but until they replace PP or KG with a superstar they won't win another title.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from KG-LB-KM. Show KG-LB-KM's posts

    Re: Its Settled..

    Some shoot too low. The Cs should only trade Rondo for a game changer. someone that can have a major impact. Guys like Smith, and big All are not that guy.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Ortiz123. Show Ortiz123's posts

    Re: Its Settled..

    I would prefer Cousins...but still not sure if he really is a winner or a whiner....

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Ortiz123. Show Ortiz123's posts

    Re: Its Settled..

    In response to rameakap's comment:

    In response to Ortiz123's comment:

     

    In response to rameakap's comment:

     

    In response to snakeoil123's comment:

     

    All three of those guys are good complimentary players. Not guys that anyone would want to build a team around.

     



    They are somewhere in the middle

     

    Borderline all-stars, any of who could be a 3rd best player on a contender - yes

    Superstar - no

    Solid multiple appearance all-star that can be Robin to a superstars Batman - no

    Your 3rd and 4th best players are not 'complimentary' players, thats reserved for your worst starter and best bench guys... but when you talk about a new 'core' those 3 are all def part of it

     




    Question...AT what point did PP become a star player to build around???

     

     

     



    Pierce would be the 2nd player selected if the 1998 draft were re-done, as it was he went 10th, he became a player to build around either the moment he was drafted or during his rookie season once everyone saw how good he would be (basically week one).

     

    Green was a lotto pick who was played out of position at OKC, but was def part of their young core and was one of their 3 best players all his seasons there until the one he was traded during. He had the heart condition and is only now getting over it, at pick #5 he likely was hoped to be a Robin to someones Batman, and he still can become that, but best case seems to be a 16-19ppg scorer, 3rd best player.

    Bradley was 19 when drafted and had ankle and shoulder issues, only showing his stuff for 2 months last season and 6 weeks this season. Had he stayed in school another year he would have been a top 10 pick. Sky may still be the limit, but superstar is unlikely... he could easily be a 16-19ppg 2nd best player as well though.

    It was opposite for Sully, he would have been a top 5 pick in the '11 draft, flashed briliance right away (Avery took over a year) but now has the back issues that should make him return better than ever and in better shape... but it still keeps him questionable. But he is also 20-21 like Avery, I'd expect him to be a 15/9 player, a 3rd-4th best starter as well.

    Any or all of those guys could emerge as a #2 on a contender... worst case is they all remain #3-#4 guys if healthy. But its not a bad spot to have. Rondo is clearly that #2 perennial all-star type player, making our young core DEEP on starting quality talent. The C's 'just' need a superstar. We could trade RR for another #2 type or a #3 if Green/Avery seem up to the task of being a 2 (need a big to replace KG, thats why you might tarde him) but until they replace PP or KG with a superstar they won't win another title.




    I was thinking more like when they traded away Joe Johnson...I know that he (PP)was talented all along, but I think his game evolved in time...

    Can we really say that Sully is a player to build around.?...was PP so much better in his rookie year???

    Of course we can say that ten years later..but did we know in his rookie year that he would be a HOF'er...?? Not me...

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Re: Its Settled..



    I was thinking more like when they traded away Joe Johnson...I know that he (PP)was talented all along, but I think his game evolved in time...

     

    Can we really say that Sully is a player to build around.?...was PP so much better in his rookie year???

    Of course we can say that ten years later..but did we know in his rookie year that he would be a HOF'er...?? Not me...

    [/QUOTE]


    You were thinking it took all the way until Feb of 2002 before the C's knew they were building around Pierce?

    Paul was pretty special right from the start. Pierce averaged 20.4 pts, 7.4 rebs, 2.4 asts, 2.7 stls and 1.5 blks in 36 mins a game while shooting 46% from the field and 43% from 3 in his first 11 games as a pro. WOW.

    Sully averaged a 6/6 before surgery and in his first 45 games made it to double figures 10x (never over 16) and double fig's in rebounding (his specialty skill) 6 times. Yes he made his debut at 19 years 8 months (Pierce was 21 and 4 months) and yes he was only played 20 mins... but he just screams 2nd best player at best, 4th best player at worst. Pierce screamed superstar.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Re: Its Settled..

    Oh and Joe Johnson wasn't traded b/c Pierce was blocking him. He was traded b/c:

    A. Chris Wallace stupidily drafted two wings when he already had Pierce (and Eric Williams) in JJ and Kederick Brown

    B. When the C's were surprisingly good and needed a rebounder and shooter/PG (hey why not draft Troy Murphy and Tony Parker over Brown and Forte?) Jim O'Brian told Wallace to trade Johnson over Brown

    Thats right... softy Joe Johnso hadn showed he was more talented than Brown, but wasn't as aggressive or as good on D at the time (he was only 20 yrs old) so Obie let Brown win the rotation mins, then told management to trade Johnson over Brown WHEN THE SUNS SAID THEY'D TAKE EITHER PLAYER

    Yikes

    It had nothing to do with Pierce, who had established himself as a future superstar 2 years earlier. There was room for PP and Johnson. There shouldn't have been room for Kederick Brown. UGH.

     
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