Jermaine O'Neal vs. Perkins: Celtic playoff stats

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from TheDUDDER. Show TheDUDDER's posts

    Re: Jermaine O'Neal vs. Perkins: Celtic playoff stats

    In Response to Jermaine O'Neal vs. Perkins: Celtic playoff stats:
    I understand it is a very small sample of 3 games for Jermaine O'Neal (vs. 62 Perk '08-'10) but I also assume as the confidence grows and rust wears off JO will get a little better or AT LEAST stay the same. Against the Knicks he has avg'd 23 minutes, 6.7 points, 3.3 rebounds, 3 blocks and 62.5% from the field... he has not taken a FT yet but is a career 71% FT shooter reg season and playoffs. Perkins in Celtics playoff career is a 25.6 minute, 6.8 point, 6.8 rebound, 1.5 block, 55% FG and 61% FT shooter. A complete wash right? Better shooting and 2 more blocks over 3.5 more rebounds?
    Posted by rameakap


    Talent, athleticism, skills, etc. don't matter - Perk was perfect for this team......  at least that is what I have read here for the past 5 years.

    This same logic applies to Rondo - he is deferring most of his offensive game for the benefit of the team, he is perfect for this team.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Getzo. Show Getzo's posts

    Re: Jermaine O'Neal vs. Perkins: Celtic playoff stats

    IF Shaq comes back..... I agree with this thread...  JO is better for the 4th and Shaq can bring that force we need down low.  Then we also have Green to come of the bench, which obviously has not panned out as planned but there is a lot of talent there.  Even Kristic can give us sopme time at the 4 and 5 if we need him.  They are starting to play Celtics defense and are beginning to gel.  The arrow is pointed up. 

    As far as people saying he sucked in miami, yeah because he was the second option on that team afetr Wade.  In Boston he is just playing the Perkins role, which suits him perfectly at this point i his career.  He has good hands and can shoot open jumpers. 

    You LA fans can say we lost out with perk, but we have other players to play the position that bring other benefits outside of "grimmy" D. 
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from COMMUNIST-CONTRARIAN. Show COMMUNIST-CONTRARIAN's posts

    Re: Jermaine O'Neal vs. Perkins: Celtic playoff stats

    enough with the perk was perfect for this team ninsense. one can make the argument that rondo as he is playing NOW esp with his deficiencies is good for this team but not with mr. abdul-jabbar russell-chamberlain perkins. rondo's lack of shooting means more shots and hero opps for paul and ray  esp at the very end of close games. i dont believe either of those egos would like a chris paul or even a derrick rose as their point guard competing for last-play supremacy with them. they are te closers esp pp, which is y its his team and will be as long as he remains the truth regarless of how deluded the national media remains about rr and how things really are in that locker room. rr is the perfect and indispensable COMPLEMENT but he is not the the most indispensable player... pp is! there is NO other point guard in the league i would want right now playing for the celts than rondo, although he is still FARRRR from being the best point guard in the league. the best pgs would not have the same spark and chemistry with the big 3...

    with perky... jo, healthy shaq, eric dampier, joel anthony, tyson chandler and about 10 other pedestrian non-all star guys of some size could be plugged in and have the same record with the core 4, if not better, as will be the case with jo. we could go undefeated in the whole playoffs with him around, that could bever happen with perk for we weere doomed to have games where the lack of floor spacing and diverse inside post-scoring caught up to us. 
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from nard160. Show nard160's posts

    Re: Jermaine O'Neal vs. Perkins: Celtic playoff stats

    Yes we need the Shaq Attack. Get out the way, get out the way, get out the way LA!
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from btownteamsrking. Show btownteamsrking's posts

    Re: Jermaine O'Neal vs. Perkins: Celtic playoff stats

    its not about stats in this debate. Just watch the game. JO is a smarter player.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from TheDUDDER. Show TheDUDDER's posts

    Re: Jermaine O'Neal vs. Perkins: Celtic playoff stats

    In Response to Re: Jermaine O'Neal vs. Perkins: Celtic playoff stats:
    enough with the perk was perfect for this team ninsense. one can make the argument that rondo as he is playing NOW esp with his deficiencies is good for this team but not with mr. abdul-jabbar russell-chamberlain perkins. rondo's lack of shooting means more shots and hero opps for paul and ray  esp at the very end of close games. i dont believe either of those egos would like a chris paul or even a derrick rose as their point guard competing for last-play supremacy with them. they are te closers esp pp, which is y its his team and will be as long as he remains the truth regarless of how deluded the national media remains about rr and how things really are in that locker room. rr is the perfect and indispensable COMPLEMENT but he is not the the most indispensable player... pp is! there is NO other point guard in the league i would want right now playing for the celts than rondo, although he is still FARRRR from being the best point guard in the league. the best pgs would not have the same spark and chemistry with the big 3... with perky... jo, healthy shaq, eric dampier, joel anthony, tyson chandler and about 10 other pedestrian non-all star guys of some size could be plugged in and have the same record with the core 4, if not better, as will be the case with jo. we could go undefeated in the whole playoffs with him around, that could bever happen with perk for we weere doomed to have games where the lack of floor spacing and diverse inside post-scoring caught up to us. 
    Posted by COMMUNIST-CONTRARIAN


    I assume you directed your post to me because I mentioned "perfect for this team"..... please understand that I was being sarcastic.

    The general mindset of the board is that having a more talented and complete player at the point and center would be bad for this team and that having too much talent is bad and that it is good to have role players at key positions and that as long as they do their role, there is enough scoring from the BIG 3 that neither Rondo nor Perk had to score as long as they commit turnovers, scowl, miss wide open uncontested jumpers, combine for a 55% free throw percentage, etc. that is fine.

    Having any number of other complete point guards and any number of centers around the league that are vastly superior players is completely unnecessary and would actually hurt the team...... that is the mindset that you are dealing with.
     
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    Re: Jermaine O'Neal vs. Perkins: Celtic playoff stats

    Shaq would make Jermaine O'Neal the best backup center in the league

    As it is, I think Jermaine O'Neal could be a difference-maker against the sizeless Heat, with or without Shaq.

    If the Bulls win, I don't see JO having much of an impact against Noah or their backup defensive specialist, but his six fouls and his defense would matter if the Celtics somehow see Orlando again (albeit unlikely).
     
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    Re: Jermaine O'Neal vs. Perkins: Celtic playoff stats

    Hopefully the extra week of will gave Shaq enough time to recover.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from videoburns. Show videoburns's posts

    Re: Jermaine O'Neal vs. Perkins: Celtic playoff stats

    In Response to Re: Jermaine O'Neal vs. Perkins: Celtic playoff stats:
    In Response to Jermaine O'Neal vs. Perkins: Celtic playoff stats : Talent, athleticism, skills, etc. don't matter - Perk was perfect for this team......  at least that is what I have read here for the past 5 years. This same logic applies to Rondo - he is deferring most of his offensive game for the benefit of the team, he is perfect for this team.
    Posted by TheDUDDER


     
    LOL   is this about rONDO?    i THOUGHT IT WAS ABOUT SOME OTHER PLAYER...   
    Does the Dud have a secret crush on Rajon?   No matter what the subject   if the Dud makes a post   then Rajon pops up...   Dud just can't seem to write more than three sentances without mentioning Rondo....  very curious. 
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Karllost. Show Karllost's posts

    Re: Jermaine O'Neal vs. Perkins: Celtic playoff stats

    Yea, yea, yea Perk was a good fit for this team but in reality, he was the least important of the starting 5.

    I dont believe he will be more than an average center the rest of his career, if that.  Hes a role player, not a star and hes deficient offensively. 

    If Shaq was healthy, I dot think Perk would get much time other than to just keep the team chemistry together. Shaq is  much better even as a shell of his former self and JON is better as well. 

    Perk did his thing in the middle... pushing guys around, setting picks etc but he was never an intimidator... JON is.. He blocks and alters lots of shots and he uses his body pretty good in the paint.  He can also shoot from 10-12 feet, can finish bear the hoop and hit FTs..

    Not a star down there but better than what we would be getting from Perk
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from strider9. Show strider9's posts

    Re: Jermaine O'Neal vs. Perkins: Celtic playoff stats

    I'm buying in to the JON is better side of this. I've been impressed with his play down low and I'm not worried about his free throw shooting. Right now I wouldn't trade JON for Perk if it were available. Shaq would be a big bonus if he were able to give us even 10 min per game. Although I'm not holding my breath.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from framdude. Show framdude's posts

    Re: Jermaine O'Neal vs. Perkins: Celtic playoff stats

    Hate to burst the bubble of some of the guys here. Shaq is not coming back and even if he is,  he is not going to give you anything on the defensive end other than a big body. He won't take charges and he is too stubborn for that. he won't rotate on defense like other guys we have. teams will put Shaq in pick and roll all day and make him pay. As much as the media and fans are in love with Shaq, I just cannot see Shaq making the difference in any series except the Lakers or if the Magic somehow makes it to the ECF and we make it there (6 fouls on Bynum or Howard). If we are expecting an athletic Shaq to play 20+ minutes and be the intimidator at the rim, sorry, those days are long gone. Shaq will have his moments or two but he will get into quick foul trouble because of his size and ( im)mobility and will end up on the bench. we can use Shaq to get quick fouls on the offensive end and maybe get to a penalty situation early in the clock and that was one thing Celtics were doing during the start of the season. I had high hopes during the start but after watching this soap-opera with Shaq and his injury. I think this is KG circa 2008 written all over it.

    other than that JON is perfect for this team. He is an upgrade over Perk pending two things. One, he plays his role as a junkyard dog (rebound, blocks,charges..etc) which, I thought he was not in Miami. Second he stays healthy. I think on those two counts he is living up to the end of the bargain up to this point. If JON stays healthy and develops chemistry with the starters he is going to be awesome. He is another big who can knock down 8-10ft shots and that helps Rondo as the defense now has to play 4 guys actually and help out and this gives Rondo driving lanes.
    this team can go deep into the playoffs, with BIg 4, Baby, JON, Green,Delonte and Kristic (thrown in as another big body). I saw some good things out of Kristic today, he had couple of blocks.
    I remember the dialogue from the movie "Dodge ball". I can easily picture Doc saying to Kristic and the bench before the game today.
    They are too good and you suck. Our only chance is for yOu have to get angry". "You have to be angry. you have to be mean". "can some one play some defense, its like watching a bunch of re....ds trying to hump a door knob out there"
    Maybe our bench needs the Patches 'o 'Houlihan treatment before the Miami series.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZX2ZLq2z9Q&feature=related
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from existentialparquet. Show existentialparquet's posts

    Re: Jermaine O'Neal vs. Perkins: Celtic playoff stats

    In Response to Jermaine O'Neal vs. Perkins: Celtic playoff stats:
    I understand it is a very small sample of 3 games for Jermaine O'Neal (vs. 62 Perk '08-'10) but I also assume as the confidence grows and rust wears off JO will get a little better or AT LEAST stay the same. Against the Knicks he has avg'd 23 minutes, 6.7 points, 3.3 rebounds, 3 blocks and 62.5% from the field... he has not taken a FT yet but is a career 71% FT shooter reg season and playoffs. Perkins in Celtics playoff career is a 25.6 minute, 6.8 point, 6.8 rebound, 1.5 block, 55% FG and 61% FT shooter. A complete wash right? Better shooting and 2 more blocks over 3.5 more rebounds?
    Posted by rameakap


    I added the emphasis to the above. I want to point out that this assumption seems flawed. JO could just as easily wear down. I would argue that that is more likely.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from cpjohn1. Show cpjohn1's posts

    Re: Jermaine O'Neal vs. Perkins: Celtic playoff stats

    In Response to Re: Jermaine O'Neal vs. Perkins: Celtic playoff stats:
    Last 3 rd's of the '08/10 playoffs: PJ - 16 minute, 3.7 point, 3 rebound, .5 block Sheed - 17 minute, 7 point, 3 rebound, .7 block They both played excellent defense. Kristic CANNOT PLAY PLAYOFF DEFENSE. PJ was just 6 months younger than Shaq and Sheed played through a bad back... The point? We are going to need 3 rounds of the playoffs where we get like a 14 minute, 6 pointy, 4 rebound 1 block Shaquille O'Neal if we are going to be champions. We can 100% replace Perk with JON. We CANNOT win w/o Shaq.
    Posted by rameakap


    Kristic played good defense today and that was a playoff game.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from videoburns. Show videoburns's posts

    Re: Jermaine O'Neal vs. Perkins: Celtic playoff stats

    In Response to Re: Jermaine O'Neal vs. Perkins: Celtic playoff stats:
    Hate to burst the bubble of some of the guys here. Shaq is not coming back and even if he is,  he is not going to give you anything on the defensive end other than a big body. He won't take charges and he is too stubborn for that. he won't rotate on defense like other guys we have. teams will put Shaq in pick and roll all day and make him pay. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZX2ZLq2z9Q&feature=related
    Posted by framdude


    Hate to burst YOUR bubble bui You obviously did not watch the games that Shaq played in this year. ....    
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from debrit. Show debrit's posts

    Re: Jermaine O'Neal vs. Perkins: Celtic playoff stats

    In Response to Re: Jermaine O'Neal vs. Perkins: Celtic playoff stats:
    Hate to burst the bubble of some of the guys here. Shaq is not coming back and even if he is,  he is not going to give you anything on the defensive end other than a big body. He won't take charges and he is too stubborn for that. he won't rotate on defense like other guys we have. teams will put Shaq in pick and roll all day and make him pay. As much as the media and fans are in love with Shaq, I just cannot see Shaq making the difference in any series except the Lakers or if the Magic somehow makes it to the ECF and we make it there (6 fouls on Bynum or Howard). If we are expecting an athletic Shaq to play 20+ minutes and be the intimidator at the rim, sorry, those days are long gone. Shaq will have his moments or two but he will get into quick foul trouble because of his size and ( im)mobility and will end up on the bench. we can use Shaq to get quick fouls on the offensive end and maybe get to a penalty situation early in the clock and that was one thing Celtics were doing during the start of the season. I had high hopes during the start but after watching this soap-opera with Shaq and his injury. I think this is KG circa 2008 written all over it. other than that JON is perfect for this team. He is an upgrade over Perk pending two things. One, he plays his role as a junkyard dog (rebound, blocks,charges..etc) which, I thought he was not in Miami. Second he stays healthy. I think on those two counts he is living up to the end of the bargain up to this point. If JON stays healthy and develops chemistry with the starters he is going to be awesome. He is another big who can knock down 8-10ft shots and that helps Rondo as the defense now has to play 4 guys actually and help out and this gives Rondo driving lanes. this team can go deep into the playoffs, with BIg 4, Baby, JON, Green,Delonte and Kristic (thrown in as another big body). I saw some good things out of Kristic today, he had couple of blocks. I remember the dialogue from the movie "Dodge ball". I can easily picture Doc saying to Kristic and the bench before the game today. They are too good and you suck. Our only chance is for yOu have to get angry". "You have to be angry. you have to be mean". "can some one play some defense, its like watching a bunch of re....ds trying to hump a door knob out there" Maybe our bench needs the Patches 'o 'Houlihan treatment before the Miami series. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZX2ZLq2z9Q&feature=related
    Posted by framdude


    If I,m not wrong theceltics record with shack as a starter was 25-9.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from framdude. Show framdude's posts

    Re: Jermaine O'Neal vs. Perkins: Celtic playoff stats

    In Response to Re: Jermaine O'Neal vs. Perkins: Celtic playoff stats:
    In Response to Re: Jermaine O'Neal vs. Perkins: Celtic playoff stats : Hate to burst YOUR bubble bui You obviously did not watch the games that Shaq played in this year. ....    
    Posted by videoburns

    read my whole post and comprehend. i do welcome intelligent analysis and I hate to get into arguments or slanging matches with people I don't even know. I love the Celtics as much as the next fan. So don't assume things about me that you obviously don't know.  tell me where I am wrong and also tell me are you basing your opinion on facts or on hope. the fact is Shaq is old and injured and he is 39.As much as I would like to be a homer I also want to be pragmatic.
    even if Shaq comes back how effective he is going to be, missing all that action for 2+ months. last time he came back he lasted what 5 minutes. were you watching that game. what happened there? did atmosphere create some mysterious nerve reaction while he was injured in a non physical play?  how do you think his leg is going to react when he really bangs into somebody or takes a charge?
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from videoburns. Show videoburns's posts

    Re: Jermaine O'Neal vs. Perkins: Celtic playoff stats

    In Response to Re: Jermaine O'Neal vs. Perkins: Celtic playoff stats:
    In Response to Re: Jermaine O'Neal vs. Perkins: Celtic playoff stats : read my whole post and comprehend. i do welcome intelligent analysis and I hate to get into arguments or slanging matches with people I don't even know. I love the Celtics as much as the next fan. So don't assume things about me that you obviously don't know.  tell me where I am wrong and also tell me are you basing your opinion on facts or on hope. the fact is Shaq is old and injured and he is 39.As much as I would like to be a homer I also want to be pragmatic. even if Shaq comes back how effective he is going to be, missing all that action for 2+ months. last time he came back he lasted what 5 minutes. were you watching that game. what happened there? did atmosphere create some mysterious nerve reaction while he was injured in a non physical play?  how do you think his leg is going to react when he really bangs into somebody or takes a charge?
    Posted by framdude

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from framdude. Show framdude's posts

    Re: Jermaine O'Neal vs. Perkins: Celtic playoff stats

    In Response to Re: Jermaine O'Neal vs. Perkins: Celtic playoff stats:
    In Response to Re: Jermaine O'Neal vs. Perkins: Celtic playoff stats : If I,m not wrong theceltics record with shack as a starter was 25-9.
    Posted by debrit

    I agree and as I posted previously, that was almost 4-5 months ago. that is like the first month and a half into the season. I am sorry it is one thing after another with Shaq. he is playing and then not playing. he is travelling so he must be close to returning and then now I hear he is not going to play. I will trust my eyes when i see Shaq on the floor playing 2 consecutive playoff games (he does not have to contribute) just bring his fat rear and stand there for all i care for 20 minutes then I will believe it.
    I agree with the record and everything. Shaq had an impact on Rondo's assists, Ray and PP shooting numbers, our offensive efficiency...etc. etc.
    but what good is going to come of it now. At present we are looking at Miami and Shaq has to show some incredible improvement in 7 days. I am hoping too.
    Like i said , its the whole KG drama all over again for me.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from myaim45. Show myaim45's posts

    Re: Jermaine O'Neal vs. Perkins: Celtic playoff stats

    I guarantee, if Jermaine O'Neal continues to play at this level the Celtics will find themselves in the Finals.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from jtkl. Show jtkl's posts

    Re: Jermaine O'Neal vs. Perkins: Celtic playoff stats

    In Response to Re: Jermaine O'Neal vs. Perkins: Celtic playoff stats:
    In Response to Jermaine O'Neal vs. Perkins: Celtic playoff stats : Talent, athleticism, skills, etc. don't matter - Perk was perfect for this team......  at least that is what I have read here for the past 5 years. This same logic applies to Rondo - he is deferring most of his offensive game for the benefit of the team, he is perfect for this team.
    Posted by TheDUDDER


    agreed. 
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from concord27. Show concord27's posts

    Re: Jermaine O'Neal vs. Perkins: Celtic playoff stats

    If we get to the finals we are going to win!  Don't forget that.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from MinnesotaCelticsFan. Show MinnesotaCelticsFan's posts

    Re: Jermaine O'Neal vs. Perkins: Celtic playoff stats

    Having a true big man is key to the Celtics success. JO is such a player.

    ... and you are right it is a very small sample. Statistics only tell part of the story for the Celtics at the Center position. The Cs have the big four for scoring, however, it will be the defensive play of JO that will determine his worth this year. Even if Shaq returns, his play will be limited because of foul trouble and lack of playing. JO will be as important to the Celtics success as Shaq.

    JO's play may eclipse Perkin's defensive play and it may not. I do know that JO is a better offensive player.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from videoburns. Show videoburns's posts

    Re: Jermaine O'Neal vs. Perkins: Celtic playoff stats

    In Response to Re: Jermaine O'Neal vs. Perkins: Celtic playoff stats:
    In Response to Re: Jermaine O'Neal vs. Perkins: Celtic playoff stats : read my whole post and comprehend. i do welcome intelligent analysis and I hate to get into arguments or slanging matches with people I don't even know. I love the Celtics as much as the next fan. So don't assume things about me that you obviously don't know.  tell me where I am wrong and also tell me are you basing your opinion on facts or on hope. the fact is Shaq is old and injured and he is 39.As much as I would like to be a homer I also want to be pragmatic. even if Shaq comes back how effective he is going to be, missing all that action for 2+ months. last time he came back he lasted what 5 minutes. were you watching that game. what happened there? did atmosphere create some mysterious nerve reaction while he was injured in a non physical play?  how do you think his leg is going to react when he really bangs into somebody or takes a charge?
    Posted by framdude

    OK...   in the early season with little or no practice time shaq made an immediate positive contribution as soon as he started to play...    his supposed defensive deficit - (pick and roll)  was never an unmanageable issue.   His 66% shooting was a boon...   his hard fouls in the lane a clear intimidation factor.   He was out for injuries a few times   and each time he came back, his contribution on the floor was immediate.   Even in the five minute game when he re-injured his leg he scored 6 points in the five minutes he played.       
    If his leg heals enough for him to have a little mobility he could certainly make those same contributions again... with little or no time needed to "get up to speed"   His play will be limited but he could easily make a substantial positive contribution at 10-15 min a game....   He is willing to take a shot of whatever in his leg to manage the pain...   It seems the Celts are holding him out as long as possible because they know he may not have more than a few games before he tears his leg muscle more...   and the longer they let it heal, the better chance it has of holding up longer against the strain of game action.   
    The Celts need 12 wins for another banner.   If I was calling the shots  even if Shaq was able to play today, I would hold him back from playing until the Celts lose 2 games - or until they are in the finals ... whichever comes first.       So that is what I think MIGHT be happening.         While its true that it also Might be that Shaq's leg just isn't healing enough to give him enough mobility to contribute,  there is NO evedence, that I have seen, that that is the case. And I think that given all of the above, and what Shaq has said about his willingness to take a shot ...   I think it is very likely that he will give it a try in a game, at some point before the playoffs are done.  To put a number on it ...  85% probability...    my number - you can argue it up or down,  but its based on the facts above, as we know them, not on hope.     I hope he does get to try it in a game... , and I hope his leg holds up for a few crucial games.   If his leg holds up I'm confident he will make a positive contribution to the Celtics efforts  maybe to their 18th championship.  
      

     SO... when you say " Hate to burst the bubble of some of the guys here. Shaq is not coming back....".     I say BS,   what do you know that no one else in the Celtics world knows.       

    Your opening phrase...."hate to burst the  bubble of some of the guys here..."  is obnoxious and condescending (not to mention a contradiction, a lie AND  a cliche)..    Your first assertion "Shaq is not coming back....". is at best unknowable and in my opinion unlikely...but asserting it as a fact is just dumb.    So if you want to avoid "slanging matches" with people you don't know then just learn to curb your condescending BS.  And then i'll curb mine. .


    We agree on at least one thing.... whather or not Shaq comes back,   the Celts have a legitimate shot at #18  


    Go Celts

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from BostonTS. Show BostonTS's posts

    Re: Jermaine O'Neal vs. Perkins: Celtic playoff stats

    JO's play has been excellent so far given his limitations. I'd rather have Perk but if JO can continue to play like this that will really close the gap. 

    Before the playoffs I thought we needed 20 minutes from Shaq to win a ring. Now with the play of JO I don't think we need that. Maybe 10-15 quality minutes from Shaq would do it. If Atlanta finishes Orlando off we might not need Shaq until the finals, and then only if LA can make it. 

    I'm pleased by how well things are going. The lack of bench contributions, in particular from Jeff Green, is starting to emerge as the biggest concern with JO playing so well. We'll see. Glad for the team to get rest and practcie this week.
     
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